[Closed] Full sus - do I really want one?

I was recently in the same position, having ridden hardtails all of my riding life. But lately I've had problems with my back (put it down to old age), I've recently bought a Boardman fs Pro. It was 18 months old and in reasonably good condition and the price was within your price bracket. They'll be other bikes within your budget too. You just need to be patient.

My giant anthem is lighter and cost less than my steel hardtail, so don't get hung up on weight.

Interestingly in a back to back comparison I did last year the anthem was no slower on a hilly 10 mile ROAD commute than my cross bike was...

Paul's cycles and pedalon (amongst others) do great discounts on end of model year.... But that's not now sadly. If you could wait a few months there are bargains to be had on new bikes.

Alternatively keep and eye out for excellent condition second hand.

Don't forget a suspension seat post if you just want a bit of comfort.USE Vybe is good.

Some people love a hardtail & so did I until I got a full sus , I could never go back.

In the same position!

Ask yourself why you want the full sus. You'll loose that direct ground feeling you get with a hardtail. Set-up for efficiency the full-sus wont grant you any extra comfort, just speed. Set up for comfort- they're a pain to get up steep technical climbs.

The weight: whats your current hardtail? Odds are there isnt much in it.

Also, consider the alternatives: Is your fork of high quality? Swapping from a s/h solo air jobby to a Marzocchi NCR 350 ti made my old hardtail go from 'aight' to 'Holy shit lets win the Enduro series'.

Just some thoughts!

No, of course you don't want one. What on earth are you thinking?

Can you not borrow a friends for a couple of rides, see how you like it. I bit the bullet a few years ago, sold my Hardtail and bought a Trek Fuel EX9. I’m now riding a Stif Morf.

I bought a cheap orange 5 last year , last week I bought a cheap Scandal 29.

I'm used to 100mm travel . The orange just deems to soak up any contact with the ground. Yes I know it's meant to!

Ask yourself why you want the full sus. You’ll loose that direct ground feeling you get with a hardtail. Set-up for efficiency the full-sus wont grant you any extra comfort, just speed. Set up for comfort- they’re a pain to get up steep technical climbs.

Total nonsense, all of it.

I, personally, wouldn’t want a susser as my only bike.

but, on the days when i want to go offroad, a good susser is the tool for the job.

the advantages that i have noticed, are its more comfortable at the end of a long day. Its faster over rough terrain, and the rougher it is, the bigger the difference is, i also find I don’t get the lower back lockup on my susser that i used to get

it will be heavier than a hardtail of the same spec, ie same gears brakes fork, frame material, etc.

it will be lighter than a cheap hardtail though.

if you intend to go bikepacking etc, a hardtail is probably better,

there will be a periodical cost to service rear shock and the frame bearings, but it’s not much tbh.

Surely N+1 applies?

Interested too.

Never owned one but borrowed quite a few. Probably time I actually bought one.

Had a go on a 2016 Boardman recently and was massively impressed. Enough time  set it up for me and it just felt right. About the same weight as my steel hardtail, easy to lift over gates. Nice bike.

Really liked the Kona Hei Hei I blagged a go on last year, huuuge fun. Will keep an eye out for a secondhand one in a few years.

Horses for courses. But a lot of the "myths" about differences between the two often don't stack up when properly evaluated. For instance,people will often say that hardtails climb better, but actually FS bikes often maintain more contact at the back end (especially on technical climbs) that allow you to keep the power down in a way that a hardtail often won't (lack of rear suspension means the rear wheel will either be bouncing around or will spin). Also, I've found that an FS is often better on pedally, yet quite technical terrain. On the hardtail you're getting bounced around whereas the FS will absorb impacts to the back wheel, stopping you getting bucked about (or getting knackered, out of the saddle) and maintaining grip. Finally, worth bearing in mind that the way the suspension actually works is very different. On a hardtail, any use of suspension (the front fork), automatically results in a steepening of the head angle, whereas on an FS the way that the BB drops means that the head angle is often made shallower. This is useful on steep, technically demanding terrain. of course there is a big difference between an XC and an Enduro FS, as indeed there is between the same types of hardtail.

That said, imho the most fun I've had on mountain bikes has been on hardtails (my current 29er 2Souls is a great bike). They are less forgiving, which means that the onus is more on the rider (at comparable speeds on comparable terrain) and I would contend that they're certainly more fun on most of the terrain that I suspect most of us ride (trail centres and comparatively benign natural trails), most of the time.

The real question (imho) is if I can only have one hardtail and one FS, what I should I go for...

Absotootly. FS is the way to go. For your budget, I'd be looking at second hand. If you were tall enough, you could buy my XL Santa Cruz blur trc frame. Great bike that I've superseded with more of the same in a 5010.

+1 Nobeer.I hate going back on my hardtail after being on my BansheeX.I have noticed barely any more maintenance costs over 9 years.If you like,just save a pound a week towards a new rear shock or service.Do it.

Total nonsense, all of it.

Tend to agree

Set up for comfort- they’re a pain to get up steep technical climbs.

You either have have no idea how to set up a full susser or you are trying to ride a full on DH bike up a steep hill !

FS is quicker up steep technical climbs than a rigid.

I would be looking at something like a Giant Anthem.

Yes, shit loads of fun. Do it.

A couple of years agoI told myself that I wanted to try FS again, so I bought a Liteville 301 frame and built it up. I told myself that it was the dog’s bollocks (and, in a way, it is) but I don’t get any more pleasure from it (or even, as much) as I do from my rigid singlespeed Ti Hummingbird.

Which is all probably totally irrelevant but what it shows, I suppose, is that bike choice is such an individual thing that anyone else’s experience is just that - someone else’s. In my case, part of it is probably that, as I get older, I have to face the fact that I’m no longer fast enough or brave enough to get the best out of something like the 301 and partly that there’s a strange satisfaction from being able to do pretty much everything that I’m willing to risk doing on a rigid single speed.

And, although I may be old, I don’t think that I ride like an old woman.

YMMV, as they say...

I've reverted to my BFe (basically a rolling spare parts bike) after my Spitfire died.  Two rides in since, and it is brutal.  I want an FS.

Simple answer really, go and do as many demo rides on as many demo bikes as you can before deciding.

I along with many other have been riding “off road” bikes since the ‘80s

I retired my Bontrager after 16yrs use and bought a Ragley Blue Pig.

I rode my first full sus bike in Verbier on the STW holiday, a Kona Coiler.

After 3yrs sampling many bikes I chose a Kona Dawg in ‘05, still ride it occasionally since I got it back from son and it is still good fun.

The Kona was upgraded by a Rocky Mountain Altitude in 2015.

So on Tuesdays night ride I will be on my Pig. On Saturday at 10under the Ben I’ll be on my 27.5 Rocky. Next week I’ll have my Ridley X Trail “gravel bike” back from the menders.

I’m fortunate atm to be able to afford multiple bikes, this was not always the case. I’m just old and theoretically free of child costs...... translated to grand child and bank of mum and dad!!!!!!

Some people can and have been lucky on the 2nd hand market, others not so.......

Depends where /what terrain you ride. For where I ride a hardtail is adequate for maybe 80% of trails, for the 20% of rougher trails a full-sus is desirable. I can either ride hardtail and get absolutely battered 20% of the time, or ride a full-sus and ride a magic carpet over the rougher 20%, and not really lose anything on the other 80% either to be honest.

if you've never tried a full-sus bike then you owe it to yourself to at least own and ride one for a while.

I have a rigid bike and short and long travel FS.  I like them all, they all ride differently, I ride them differently.

If most of your riding is equivalent to trail centre "Red" or above then they are better, more comfortable/faster/safer all at the same time I think. They ride better on techy and/or rough sections whether they're uphill, downhill or flat.

If the riding has a lot of Road, fireroad, canals, tame bridleways, Trail Centre "Blue" or "Green" routes or equivalent, a full suss will provide little benefit over the HT if any.

Since most of my rides are either Trail Centre Red/Black or an XC ride that will try to take in as much as possible that is equivalent to trail centre red/black, that's why I have the FS.

The weight difference makes no noticeable difference to me between my 13.5kg FS or 11kg HT, on smooth sections the speed/effort feels about the same, so I rarely see any advantage in taking the HT out.

However in terms of maintenance costs I think the FS probably only adds on about 20-25% extra cost through the year compared to a HT? (assuming both bikes have a dropper post, 10/11 speed drive train, hydraulic brakes, etc)

It does depend a lot on what and where you ride, I've found it beneficial going from a (quite heavy) steel 26er to a lighter alloy 29er, less weight and better rollover does help IMO.

I've only ever really had FS bikes for DH, and those were bought and maintained on the cheap, I've newer had one that I enjoyed pedalling miles on. That maybe has coloured my ideas about them, so they're something I tend to have in addition to a HT, not instead of one.

So I'm still a HT fan, but I do find myself looking at more modern bouncers and I having strated to feel a little more beaten towards the end of some rides and maybewwanting to indulge in the odd uplift day, there's some appeal there...

Surely it's more expensive to maintain a hardtail than a full suss?The frame,parts and of course your body take a hell of a battering.Would an off road  vehicle ever be designed with suspension only at one end?Course it wouldn't.

Just the frame bearings and rear shock maintenance on the FS, compared to more components taking a beating and getting broken on the HT.

Some people ride a HT at least "some" of the time claiming it keeps maintenance costs down but the 2 extra things on the FS isn't that much more. When you've got a drive train, hydraulic brakes,dropper posts, bottom bracket,  wheel bearings/hubs, headset s, wheels, tyres, pads, forks, to maintain/replace on both bikes the additional 2 extras on the FS are probably only 20-25% extra cost (in parts+labour)

I reckon I could ride my 120/100mm and 140/125mm travel bikes for around 8 laps around my favourite blue, boredom notwithstanding, before my legs gave out. The reason I haven’t tried is the aforementioned boredom

I can ride my hardtail (admittedly rigid) for 3 laps of the same favourite blue before my back gives out. I have tried this and half way round the last week f those laps I’d have given my teeth for an FS but, alas, they’d all rattled out...

(Gisburn, if you are keen to repeat the experience, as I’m not.)

Thanks chaps for all the input. Consensus seems to be yes, I do need one. The only trouble now is convincing myself to part with the HT (Genesis Latitude) as N=2 at my house so its one in, one out.

Depends on where you ride and how you ride. Also, a good hardtail is better than a mediocre full-sus.

Depends on where you ride and how you ride. Also, a good hardtail is better than a mediocre full-sus.

Depends, 'at what' A good FS can be something like the Boardman, a Giant Anthem or a Whyte T-130 for example, cost £1000 or even less used. For the HT to be 'better' on rough terrain, it's going to have to be exceptionally good.

With the invention of lockout, you can essentially turn a FS into a HT for only a small weight penalty, you can't turn a HT into an FS though...

FS's these days climb exceptionally well, go over the bumpy bits well, are comfortable ..  etc etc.

I still have a HT and i use it sometimes when i go out and will be doing only road... it's lighter and the 29er wheels roll well.

But i've done back to back tests with the T-130 even on the road and there's seconds in it over a 5 min segment... literally 2-3 either way.

Ive got 2 HT's and one Full Suss....

My FS gets 90% of the use....

I can ride my hardtail (admittedly rigid) for 3 laps of the same favourite blue before my back gives out. I have tried this and half way round the last week f those laps I’d have given my teeth for an FS but, alas, they’d all rattled out…

(Gisburn, if you are keen to repeat the experience, as I’m not.)

I took the XC HT round... the blue and red... declined the Hope Line and Black thank you...

My Aggressive Steel HT... I'd do the black and the Hope Line but quite honestly wouldn't want to cycle it that far.

At 50 I'd feel properly beat up...

I took the HT to 417 this weekend.(as well as my FS).. rode the blue DH no problems until I got a pinch flat (luckily at the bottom) and would happily take it onto the Red... BUT ... I wouldn't want to do it all the time.  After the pinch flat I got back on the FS (which is 140 front/130 rear) and its just so much more comfortable

Consensus seems to be yes, I do need one

You don't need one, but you might want one.

IMO they are better at being an MTB at almost everything than a hardtail.

And yet I ride my hardtail more - why? because better does not always equal more fun.

Ask yourself why you want the full sus. You’ll loose that direct ground feeling you get with a hardtail. Set-up for efficiency the full-sus wont grant you any extra comfort, just speed. Set up for comfort- they’re a pain to get up steep technical climbs.

Totally disagree with that. A good full-suss bike set up well is more comfortable, faster and better at technical climbing than a hardtail. More fun too IMHO. I reckon one day racers too will be running suspension soft enough to work, just like roadies are now running wider tyres. Only things really going for hardtails are weight, cost and maintenance.

It’s worth having both if you can - although if I could only have one mtb it’d definitely be a full suss.

Took my play hardtail off-road for the first time on trails last week and I enjoyed it, but he terrain is pretty easy that I took it on. Wouldn’t want to get much more rough and rocky on it.

HT is a Kona Caldera with 100mm Bomber 1’s / decent discs / 2.4” tyres. Probably weighs around 28lbs.

FS is a Bird Aeris 145 - 160mm travel at both ends / 2.5 and 2.3” tyres run tubeless. Guess it weighs around 32lbs.

I wasn’t much quicker on the pedally bits on the HT if at all (although I did alright with a few Strava pr’s) and anything vaguely bumpy it was slower.

Drop offs were the biggest eye opener but I think that’s the short travel forks that are a bit too soft for me.

I’m intending to ride the HT a bit more often on the local easy trails just for the change / to see if it improves my bike handling skills and fitness.

For your budget if I knew a bit about bikes I’d go secondhand - if not then I think a Bossnut Evo might be the best option. I previously thought the Boardman Team FS was pretty good, but I had a go on one a month ago and the front end was very high and the bike felt really old school short.

And yet I ride my hardtail more – why? because better does not always equal more fun.

This.

If your metric for fun is speed and comfort, then FS all the way.

Others measure their fun against the acheivment against less than perfect conditions. Some do both, others neither.

Think about how you get your fun on a ride, that's probably the best guide for whether you 'need' an FS. That said, if you've never had one before, you should get one just so you don't shut away the potential for even more shits and giggles!

If N=2, could the ht go in the loft?

Surely it’s more expensive to maintain a hardtail than a full suss?The frame,parts and of course your body take a hell of a <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">battering</span>

Err, no.

Rear shock service + bearing change annually. What's that, £150-200? Even doing that every other year is £75-100

I pick up a pinch puncture a year in average, so that is £3 inner tube. And, well that's it.

(Oab_household has 3x FS, 2xHT and 2x rigid as a comparison sample size)

Rear shock service + bearing change annually. What’s that, £150-200? Even doing that every other year is £75-100

Arguably excessive. I've rarely serviced bouncy bits.

If N=2, could the ht go in the loft?

Unfortunately not, but it has crossed my mind to paint everything the same colour.

Believe its called Plausible Deniability!

Rear shock service + bearing change annually. What’s that, £150-200? Even doing that every other year is £75-100

Arguably excessive. I’ve rarely serviced bouncy bits

If you ride quite a lot (like 2-4 times a week during the "biking season" and maybe once a week in the "off-season" doing say 4000 miles  a year) I can see it costing £200 a year on the extra maintenance on the FS. Unless you do these jobs yourself, can reduce the costs, but it takes quite a lot of technical knowledge to be able to do a shock service and pivot bearings yourself. It is something that I am nowhere good enough yet to attempt, and I've been riding FS's for three years.

£200 extra a year on FS compared to HT isn't that much if you ride a lot, and think its worth it when it improves 3 very important things on a ride: speed, comfort and safety. If I do 100 "proper" rides a year that's only an extra £2 per ride.

Plus, when your competing with people who you know on Strava, the FS makes it possible to compete on rough/techy sections. Wouldn't like to be doing that on a HT and thinking I've got a disadvantage all the time.

From starting with a basic Voodoo hard tail I've always wanted something better, first it was a better HT, then a FS, then a Dropper Post, then a Longer travel FS with a better Dropper Post.

Now that I've got two FS's it doesn't stop there, I'm now often thinking of the next thing that will give me an advantage/make me faster: A Full Suspension E-Bike. If only I had more spare money.

 

If you ride quite a lot (like 2-4 times a week during the “biking season” and maybe once a week in the “off-season” doing say 4000 miles  a year) I can see it costing £200 a year on the extra maintenance on the FS. Unless you do these jobs yourself, can reduce the costs, but it takes quite a lot of technical knowledge to be able to do a shock service and pivot bearings yourself. It is something that I am nowhere good enough yet to attempt, and I’ve been riding FS’s for three years.

To be fair pivot bearings are pretty simple with the right extractor/press and even using a hack one it's pretty easy and I paid £12 for a full set ...

Aircan service is 10 mins of a job... vs a full shock service but if you keep the aircan clean you don't need to do a full service very often... for not much more than £200/yr you can also just buy a half decent shock...  my spare/light riding shock cost me £109... and the kids spare shock assembly about the same.  (all new) and DU bushings are only £5 - £10 .. (course it took a while to find them at this price but not as long as a full service interval)

My spare shock was a ML3 tune that came off a new bike with a heavier rider... my kids was bought in 2 parts £90 for the main assembly and £3 for the aircan.  I still need to get this tuned though so it will end up costing me another £70... and my original shock I'll get changed to a ML3 tune when it goes for a full service.

“Depends, ‘at what’ A good FS can be something like the Boardman, a Giant Anthem or a Whyte T-130 for example, cost £1000 or even less used. For the HT to be ‘better’ on rough terrain, it’s going to have to be exceptionally good.”

I think you’ll fine I said that a good hardtail is better than a mediocre full-sus. I’m not a hardtail zealot, I prefer my full-sus most of the time but I’d rather ride my Zero AM on gnarly trails than lots of generic cheap full-sus bikes with feeble forks and sketchy geometry.

The (extra) cost of servicing a fs bike vs a ht is minimal ime.

i have a fs bike 2015 cube e stereo, i have also had so called ‘fs’ bike back in the 90s, the real eye opener for me was how well modern bikes can be pedalled compared to a ht bike.

a fs bike will be quicker everywhere, uphill (because you can pedal over rougher terrain) downhill, because you can more easily ride it over rough terrain,

on the flat, it’s probably even stevens, if it’s not too rough.

Whether ‘quicker’ is actually ‘better’ is another discussion entirely, for me, maximum excitement is when the bike is right on the limit of adhesion/edge of control, so a cx bike can be pretty exciting if you choose terrain wisely.

horses for courses innit.

are you sure the ht won’t go in your parents shed?

Blast around Hamsterley on the BFe tonight reminded me that I really, really need to replace the Spitfire.  Brutal and not fun.

Take a look at the variety of replies in this thread? Choose one and justify it how you will!

Consider both sides of the compromise - full susser's are faster on your standard mtb terrain, but often you end up running tougher tyres to survive the rocky speed, these often come with a rolling resistance penalty on the way to the trails. So now you have a drag on the way to the trails - with 15km of track to the 'trails' that is too much of a negative compromise for my kind of riding, YMMV as it should.

For those that spoke about my opinion on my type of riding - what crackers are you on fellas? My climbs are ultra steep trail type climbs, little pedaling, more hopping. Hardtail (rigid front + plus tyres) wins, for me. (do I need to put that last word in caps for emphasis? 😆 )

Let me take you back to your first post my gnarly friend...

In the same position!

This would suggest that you've never had a FS bike either, same as the OP?. If that's a correct assumption, then you're not really on a position to make the next statement about FS bikes being no good for steep techy climbs, which in itself is bullshit mate.

I just built up a new HT.... well rebuilt an old one I got for £160 on eBay.

I re-discovered the joy .. and pain in equal measures.

I have 2 HT's and one FS ... One HT weighs nearly nothing and a XC geo.... the other is steel and 160mm of travel ... and the FS is 140/130 Whyte T-130 with a Pike @140 on the front.

XC HT ... it goes FAST on flat.... its scary in the air (loves to dive nose first) and doesn't engender that kid of fun.  If your idea of fun is the wind rushing past on a gentle trail then .... its possibly a few minutes faster on a complete run of somewhere really tame like the official Swinley Blue/Red/Blue ... but if I do it at that speed my 50yr old joints let me know all week.

Whyte FS ... Gets used 90% of the time... my 50yr old joints appreciate it and every root or rock is a jump waiting to happen.  It gets used from Swinley and Surrey Hills to FOD uplifts... usually with the exception of Jnr's bike it will usually be the shortest travel on an uplift by a long way.

NS Core 2012 HT .. 160mm Maz springs up front... daren't weigh it as it might break the scales...

The bike is happy enough on moderate DH ... but I strongly suspect it's going to beat me up.  I took it to 417 Sunday and since its so retro its running tubes and got a pinch flat off a hard landing.

Took it to Swinley to play on Camel and follow Jnr a few weeks ago and after Blue/Red/Red/Blue (double loop on Red) I was completely knackered... Swinley suddenly developed a lot of uphills I hadn't realised existed and having ridden up them I was so knackered I didn't have as much fun on the DH as I'd planned.

Jnr left something at the top of Red 21 (I can't remember what) ... so I let him do a loop and went back to get whatever the left.. planning to have some fun  on Camel (semi-unoffical DH/Jumps) and meet him at the bottom.

I half killed myself on the hill... got his rucksack (now I remember) and not wanting to not be there when he'd completed the loop rushed down Camel when my body was saying to let my heart rate get back to a reasonable level...  next day I felt like I'd done double the distance and 10x the climbs on my FS.... (I was stiffer than after a weekend at Afan on the FS doing all the climbs)

OK, so this is a £200 bike ... but it's great FUN on a few jumps... and it was built for 3 reasons...

1) What can you (re)build for <£200... (I may have slightly gone over but not much, its deffo under £250)

2) Something to take to DJ

3) The aim of keeping fitter whilst out riding with an 8yr old.  (Albeit a race fit one)

The last one is going to take some determination ... I honestly can't see me choosing to ride it UP Y Wal... if I had another bike I'd probably chicken out... I could take the XC UP but then the DH would be less fun... so I'd almost certainly stick with my FS....

Of course everyone has different ideas of fun.... different people are at different levels of fitness and have skills and experience on different stuff...and most people are younger than I am...

However I'd say for your average guy or gal ... riding single track FS will be the most pleasant ride and for your average Joe they will likely have more fun on a trail day out on a FS.

To: Nobeerinthefridge

The OP never states he has never had a full sus? Just that he has a hankering for one? I have owned: 3 hardtails mtb's (XC, current plus/trail and a stanton slackline), and 4 full sus (Giant 100mm 2012, canfield Balance 2015 2016, Orange patriot 2015 180mm and a cannondale prophet).

Alas, this hardly seems relevant to the OP?

Just to qualify my position on suspension - I thought it was the most basic fact that suspension provides 'at the extremes' either control or comfort. It is that way in every single application of suspension. Obviously there is a happy middle-ground most people aim for. Nonetheless, if you wish to continue this discussion - drop me a PM. Hardly seems right to take up the OP's thread.

I thought it was the most basic fact that suspension provides ‘at the extremes’ either control or comfort.

You seem to be quite confused about how suspension works. Probably best to stick to rigid bikes.

I thought it was the most basic fact that suspension provides ‘at the extremes’ either control or comfort.

You seem to be quite confused about how suspension works. Probably best to stick to rigid bikes.

Ahem.

<b>Suspension</b> is the system of tires, tire air, springs, shock absorbers and linkages that connects a vehicle to its wheels and allows relative motion between the two Suspension systems must support both roadholding/handling and ride quality, which are at odds with each other.

Although that is from wiki, it's what you'll find in any mechanics/engineering text book on the matter, or when discussing suspension in rally car driving, tanks (if you're so inclined) etc.

Just to qualify my position on suspension – I thought it was the most basic fact that suspension provides ‘at the extremes’ either control or comfort.

I completely miss the extremes part ... my car has suspension ... when it's moving the suspension provides comfort .. but moving isn't an extreme its the purpose of the car.  When the car is moving over anything that isn't smooth tarmac is also supplies control... I doubt I could get off my drive without suspension.

On a MTB suspension provides comfort for the intended purpose of the bike...  you can go fully rigid on a aluminium frame but even a fire road will be uncomfortable to some extent.. and well, that's not really the purpose of a (real) MTB .. that's what gravel bikes are for.

As soon as you even remotely approach single track suspension is providing comfort and control... not even going towards any extremes whatsoever there is a world of difference between a 2' drop off onto a groomed surface and a 1'-2' drop off into mud, roots, rocks with trees to miss.

Handling a 1'-2' drop into rocks and roots is as far away from EXTREME as I can imagine for a Trail MTB.  Indeed this is pretty much as "NORMAL" as it gets.

On the other hand tasking a fully rigid bike off 1'-2' drops onto rocks and roots whilst dodging trees is reasonably extreme.

If you want to talk about "extreme" then talk Hardline, talk Cape Classic (in terms of another extreme)

You seem to be quite confused about how suspension works.

Or it is a completely different meaning of "extreme" we don't know about ???

You can quote as many wiki 'facts' as you like, my suspension does not have to be at any 'extremes' to be effective. A simple test of this is riding the Torridon loop on a HT and a FS, which I've done on both. The climbs on such rough terrain are far more achievable and hence quicker on a FS than they are on a HT, of that there is no doubt, what ever the textbooks say. The rear suspension, if tuned correctly, allows the rear wheel to track the ground, and thus provides traction, whilst in a comfortable, efficient, seated position. On the HT, you will be up and out of the saddle, working a lot harder to get up and over the vast amount of features.

And then there's the descents.....  🙂

Yes. Or No.

As per my profile name, almost all my MTB riding has been on HT's, and for years, a HT has been my do it all MTB. That's not particularly been through choice or some purist-value thing, just that I've not had the cash for 2 MTBs. My 45650b met most of my requirements most of the time, at home on local trails, taking trail centres in its stride, capable (enough) for big days out in the mountains.

I have just built up a Cannondale Prophet (total cost around £350), as it was so cheap, thought "why not". Am glad to have it. Haven't ridden it much yet, suspect it will get used quite a lot, but the other MTB (no longer have the 45650b), Inbred Rigid SS will get used on quick local blasts, and through the winter slop.

TBH, most of the local trails can be ridden on FS, HT, Rigid, CX/gravel bike, the advantages ebb and flow depending on which bike is on which bit of trail.

My FS will be a nice option to have. I'm not convinced, for me, it would be my preference as my only MTB (but that view may well change as I get more time on the bike).

My 2p.

Having ridden a full susser for years I had the chance to ride my old hard tail (that I'd sold to a friend) - Orange P7 (the original one). This was about 18 months ago when I was riding my old SC Superlight. Over smooth single track and hard pack fire roads it was totally fine. As soon as things got bumpy - lots of loose rock across the fire road for example, or roots and rocky ground, it was brutal. My mate had never ridden a full susser and planned to get another (more modern) hard tail - until we swapped bikes that day for 10 mins. He bought a full-suss a couple of weeks later.

It really depends on the terrain you ride. I'd never go back to a hardtail and I always feel sorry for my son when he joins me on his Rockrider.

OK coming at it from a slightly different angle. Whilst people's anecdotes are useful to a point (maybe not the one above about writing off modern HTs based on the ride of an ageing P7!?), try thinking of it in terms of what it will give you in its own right rather than in comparison to a HT.

I've never owned a FS but i'd imagine I would still be able to have a great deal of fun and enjoyment on one - as I do my hardtail. It might be fun and enjoyable in different ways to the HT, but that's probably worth a punt if you feel like a change or want to experience different kinds of fun. If you get the right bike for you then doubtless you'll make the most of it. If you really don't enjoy it then go back to a HT, or if you miss your HT sometimes then save for another!

Don't get mired in myths and a small sample of anecdotes - do what will reward you most.

Rear shock service + bearing change annually.

You are going to need to do a lot of riding and not a lot of maintenance to require that.

Plus you can do them yourself for about £40 of parts.

I have a steel HT and a 140mm FS. Even though I tend to ride mostly on the TPT which is flatish and surfaced,  it's the FS that I take out. It's just easier going and more capable for wherever I end up going (I know some decent woods and a few downhill sections).

If you've got £800 at the mo, then why not look around for 0% finance deals. I got my Stereo for £65 a month over 2 years with a £200 deposit when it was on sale.

In fairness, aging or modern doesn't change the back end rattling your ass off over rough stuff. I had a more modern hard tail for the record fairly recently, in fact several between that old P7 and my current ride.

If you've never ridden one, go hire one at a trail centre and get a feel for it. Most folk find the FS much more comfortable, controlled, and ultimately faster. It's really hard to go back. And we are now at the point where you can get a great FS from Calibre or Boardman for less than 1k. Unheard of a few years back.

I have a steel HT and a 140mm FS. Even though I tend to ride mostly on the TPT which is flatish and surfaced,  it’s the FS that I take out. It’s just easier going and more capable for wherever I end up going (I know some decent woods and a few downhill sections).

If you’ve got £800 at the mo, then why not look around for 0% finance deals. I got my Stereo for £65 a month over 2 years with a £200 deposit when it was on sale.

That combination seems to me like the perfect match - a steel hardtail and a lightish 140/150mm FS trail bike.

In fairness, aging or modern doesn’t change the back end rattling your ass off over rough stuff. I had a more modern hard tail for the record fairly recently, in fact several between that old P7 and my current ride.

I'd ridden a couple of hardtails but I knew a couple of miles into a ride on a FS bike that's what I needed - for me it was primarily the comfort side of things, after a couple of hours my legs are feeling it and all I want to do is sit down on the pedally sections, which results in my arse being hammered, which tires me out even more, which makes me want to sit down more, and so-on...

Give it a year and I'll have myself a nice steel 150mm hardtail for chucking about and fun stuff, and a carbon 140/1500m trail bike for long days, general trail centre riding and European trips.

Yeah. That's what I appreciate a lot - sitting down spinning hard down a rocky but not particularly technical descent that you be standing through on a hardtail or battering your ass.

I have two bikes right now. If I could have three I'd love a fatbike for a bit of fun. I can't have three!

Has anyone mentioned rear shocks with lockouts or climb modes that can switch your FS into acting like hard-er-tail? Yes you're still carrying the weight and it's not quite the same as a rigid frame but the option is there.

Edit - yes they did. Please carry on

I’m reviving this thread because it prompted me to take my Liteville 301 out for a change, instead of my Ti Hummingbird. So, this morning, I did and, to be honest, regretted doing so. I can’t really explain why it should be but there are plenty of occasions when this has happened and yet very, very few where I’ve regretted being on a rigid singlespeed.

It’s like the Hummingbird is part of me and I instinctively know how it’s going to behave in 95% of situations, wheteas the 301 just feels wandery, imprecise and, most of the time, harder work. It’s not like I ride flat, simple stuff either, because out of choice I don’t. I seek out techy, off-piste descents whenever I can but (and maybe this is the important bit?) I’m not looking to get down them as fast as possible but rather as cleanly as possible. Now I know that a 301 in the right hands is in its element with stuff like this ( example - Tobi Leonhardt, Axel Kreuter etc) and while I’m no riding god I’m not (having come from an enduro and before that, trials background) that bad either. I may be old but I don’t ride like an old woman...

Maybe part of it is that, on the 301, I naively expect to be able to ride pretty much anything and when I can’t it pisses me off, whereas on a rigid singlespeed you maybe don’t have these same expectations, so you put in a bit more effort and when it all works out you feel really elated. I don’t know, tbh. What I do know is that when one of my rides turns to hike-a-bike (this seems to be a regular thing lately...) I know which bike I’d rather sling across my back. And I know that when I’m threading my way down some deeply rutted descent which bike I can hold a line with the best.

I’m probably just fortunate in that I seem to have found something that’s not new school, not fashionable, not the latest anything but for some indefinable reason feels as if it was made for me. One of my riding mates said a few weeks ago that he envies the fact that I’ve basically been riding the same bike for nine years, that I almost have empathy with it and that I never complain and never make excuses when I’m on it. I do what I can do and that’s it, basically.

So, for me, I can see a time where my FS bike won’t get ridden (which is a shame, I suppose) because I know which bike I’ll be riding until I get too old to do the sort of riding that pleases me. Realistically, I don’t suppose that’ll be too far away.

It could be you simply have the wrong FS ? Mine is an absolute dream (now i've fixed the mystery noise) and i feeel 100% happy.

In your shoes... I'd sell the FS today. Pointless if you hate it.

I don’t hate it - more that I, for some reason, can’t do it justice (too old? too slow?) I might ship it out to that Greece, where it’ll be far more in its element on big, rocky stuff than it is here.

99% of us can't do justice to the bikes we ride.... but does that matter ?

I certainly can't do justice to my bikes. The weak link is me, and that's good as there is no excuses when I screw up, I know the bike could do it.

As I mainly ride my full sus I definitely feel more at one with it, know what it can do, how it will handle a given situation. I'm not quite as comfortable (in the confidence sense as well comfort) on my hardtail, but I don't think it's down to lack of rear suspension. I think it's is much more to do with geometry, and better forks. This is the main reason I want to replace my hardtail with one that much closer matches my full sus bike in terms of geometry and the same wheel size. My current hardtail is a bit old school in the long, low, slack stakes, not to mention the 26" wheels. To be honest the wheels size is less of an issue than geo but there's no real options to update the geo without going to bigger wheels, and it would be nice to be able to share wheels/tyres between bikes.