Full fat eMTB vs diet versions - real world experience?

I keep telling myself I could use a lower powered one

90% of the time I ride in eco @ 15% assist on my own and then I go on a lot of rides with riders on normal bikes where I am just spinning along in low assist and a low powered bike would be perfect.

But then there's the odd occassion where I use ALL that boost and think I'd miss it - that and all the normal bike riders have just bough full fat bikes lol

Ironically, I was sometimes the only rider on an eeb on group rides - now everyone is almost overnight on eebs and mine is out of action, so I'm gauging which rides I can join on my normal bike - thankfully my fitness is getting where I want it to be at the moment

I've tried both types and have just settled on a full fat, although that's to go alongside my normal trail bike.

The lighter weight options ride much more like a regular bike. You don't get the "runaway train" feel that can sometimes be the case on heavier ebikes. Also, if you haven't ridden an ebike before, the assist will likely feel amazing compared to a regular trail bike anyway (depending on how much long covid has hammered you; hopefully not too much).

I ended up with the full fat version because of how i use it, basically to be able to maximise the "fun" bits of riding when I'm short on time.

Personally,  if I was looking for something to build fitness and increase distance,  I'd go with the lighter options.

Personally I see little point in low power ones.  they are still a heavy bike and you will have range anxiety.

To start with it’ll be used to help build back fitness after a bout of long covid, so probably max 2-3h per ride this year which makes the diet version a no brainer.

I think maybe it depends on your ultimate aim. I used a full power Levo as a long covid rehab tool, which it was absolutely brilliant for, but my long term priority was always to get back to just riding non-assisted bikes. Now that I've done that, the Levo mostly only gets used for recovery rides when I want to get out without battering myself or, very occasionally, for riding with mates who have e-bikes themselves.

To be fair, I didn't buy the bike, it was loaned to me by a very kind friend and is effectively now in foster care in my front room. I guess if I were making a larger financial investment, I might have a different take.

The two things I've taken from riding a full fat bike though are that the added weight, for me, makes a considerable difference to the way the bike handles on steep, downhill nadgery stuff - it has run-away train tendencies - though that might be less of an issue if I rode it more often. And I find the noise of the motor  a little intrusive, despite the Levo being one of the quieter options out there. YMMV.

In theory I'm more drawn to lightweight e-mtbs - I'm not particularly bothered about climbing at full chat, more just being able to save my legs with a subtle level of assistance. I  know it's obvious, but your best bet is to do some test riding and see what you make of both types.

Normal riding is Peak, Lakes, and Rivi.

On the range side of things, climbing and high boost levels are what shred battery life ime. If you're prepared to climb more sedately in eco, then you'll have a vastly different power consumption to someone using turbo on every incline, though you'll also be much slower.

Not tried the Spesh ones, but have ridden a Fuel EXe - I could see the point of that bike, as it didn't feel like an ebike, rode really nicely, witht he power there if/when you needed it. Ideal if you're a solo rider or ride with people with MTBs and are getting fitness back. If the battery ran out on a ride it wouldn't be a disaster, as it could still be ridden normally without too much issue. I don't think the Specialized Sl is as light though.

i’d be hoping to get 50-60k range

You could easily get that out of a full fat, but a lightweight.. you'd be wondering. I have run out of power on a semi-full fatter (Fazua powered) 5 miles from home and it was bloody awful. (But then I did also run out of water and it was damn hot!)

Oh also a full fat is fine for getting back to fitness, 20-30miles in eco can be a pretty decent workout offroad.

Tried a Trek Fuel Exe, was really impressed with it as a package, weight went almost unnoticed, but in some ways, the power does too. I ended up buying a Rail, which has bags of power and I don't regret the decision.  For the sort o fhammering out laps style of ridin that I wanted it forg, the full power is a no brainer

Downhill the Rail is a tank, but it doesn't feel heavy or hard to handle to me - that said, when I get back on my Geometron  it feels incredibly light and quiet

I haven't got either, but I have thought about it quite a bit this year. I'll make a few points which may or may not be useful.

1. When I was first interested in eebs I was thinking of rides like you, with 2,000m+ climbing. Seems this may be realistic going easy on a full fat but probably not on an SL. Maybe they just don't do what I want yet.
2. You mention Rivi (my local), so you might want to think about which you'd prefer to be lifting over fences.
3. I was close to buying an eeb in January when I was unfit and feeling sorry for myself. Since then I've got my fitness back on normal bikes - would that have been harder on an eeb?

Ive got both a full fat emtb (orbea wild fs) and a low power emtb (trek fuel exe).

The full fat hardly ever gets ridden these days, but that mainly because the people I ride with are also on low power emtbs.

If everyone I rode with was on a full fat bike, then I'd need to be on a full fat bike too.

The suspension of the orbea feels amazing due to the high unsprung weight, it just ploughs through rough stuff feeling super smooth, but the fuel exe is much more agile, easier to hop about. I prefer the fuel exe.

Since then I’ve got my fitness back on normal bikes – would that have been harder on an eeb?

As a rider of both - yes, 100%

Regular rides on the eeb with the occassional ride on the normal I'd be blowing out of my arris. Only since I've pushed myself to get more normal rides in has my fitness come back to anything where I want it to be (stopping drinking has helped, but there's no substitute for pure leg power IME)

Between us in our family we all have Turbo Levos. One Mk1, three Mk3s and a shared Levo SL. The latest three were all bought second hand as replacements for our MK1s and are still going strong. Its only on the rare occasions that the SL gets chosen above the Turbos.

I've ridden mine all over the UK, predominantly in the Peak, In the Alps and Finale along side riding my Enduro.  I don't tend to notice the additional weight probably because I'm having that much fun riding it.

My other half is still recovering from an injury in the Alps this time last year and has only ridden the Turbo Levo since been allowed back out on the bike. We are going back to the Alps next week taking the Enduros and the Turbo Levos. The SL was not considered as an option to take, even with the range extender,

The Levo SL's (up until the current one) were right at the bottom of the assistance ladder if I'm correct (35nm and tiny (300w/h?) batteries).

Most of the (I suppose mid range) lightweights are now pushing 50-60nm (Full fats are typically 85-90nm) with 400-500w/h batteries (full fat 700+)

Most eebs come with an app facility to tune them to a degree. With a full fat bike its possible to dial the power down to ebike lite and the only penalty is a bit of extra weight which, frankly, I got used to very quickly and its not that bad....

If you go down the SL route and want extra range, then buy the boost battery you almost have full fat weight and half fat power that you can't change up. With a dialled down full fat you could say "whats the point" but the potential is there. FWIW I run my full fat Levo at SL levels most of the time but its nice to clear a fire road with a bit of a boost.
Full fat Levo and 700w = 70km and 1600 hm with a bit left. SL has the 500w then a 250ish booster battery. I bet with both of these fitted, the Levo and SL/booster are probably pretty close on weight but power differences are obvious.

It's been a dilemma before and the suggestion is the same. Get a half day hire on both, then it will be a bit clearer.

There have been a few ebike posts recently, I would certainly take a look at them.

I have had hip issues that has stopped me exercising for the last couple of years and unfortunately will only get worse over time before 2 hip replacements, so I figured that now at 50 its the time to get one, enjoy the riding I can and still get out in the big hills.

I would try and get some test rides on some, which can be easier said than done ! Leisure Lakes did a brilliant demo day at Gisburn Forest a few weeks back where I tried a few ebikes. I concentrated on 'lightweight' emtbs though.

First thing is they are good - all of them (apart from when they go wrong) the cynical side of me thinks that 'lightweight' emtbs do not exist, and its all marketing trollocks. Yes some of them weigh 17-18kg but they are a set up for XC light duty, which actually you wont do as the bikes are so competent and fast they beg you to do more. The 'affordable' lightweights are only slightly lighter than full fat, but it is noticeable. All the ones I test road felt roughly the same weight when picking them up, probably about 19.5kg

Look for my thread on the Rise SL/LT, Whyte E-Lyte, Spec Levo SL. I wanted to like the Levo SL, and it was a great handling bike, but the battery and motor are outdated are out gunned by the others.

I didnt get chance to ride a full fat, but most people were saying full fat is for those who like just blasting their way through a trail, perhaps havent come from a background of acoustic bikes.

I did note when I test road the bikes that my heart was still working hard, if not harder than I would on an ordinary ride, as its so much more fun going quicker. Unfortunately I did not have access to any of the apps on the bikes so couldnt see how much power I was using compared to an acoustic bike. But I was knackered by the end of the day

I decided on a Orbea Rise LT. In theory in the lightweight category, although we will see how much it weighs when it arrives! But it has ability to give a full fat 85nm performance in a 'lightweight' setup.

As above all these bikes are marketed in categories. Realistically its the battery and component choice that adds the weight, so pick your components and battery capacity. lighter ones have less travel, heavier ones have more travel

OP, just in case you're still undecided. How about building a lightweight modern XC bike. Test ride a FS spark, epic evo or Ripley. Biking can still be fun even with health issues👍

I’d say try and get demos on both.

I’ve got a Rise with the 540 battery, according to Garmin my last ride used 56% battery for 35km / 1200m. Mostly ridden in Trail in the lower power profile, with a couple of bursts of boost. So extrapolating that yes I would reach your hoped 60km / 2000m.

In eco it seems to go on forever. I tend to try and ride in as low assistance as I can most of the time apart from when I’m short of time and want to blast out a few of descents.

Despite being a light e-bike it’s still pretty heavy but a definite chunk lighter than a full fat.

Thanks all, some good food for thought. The main thing that worries me while recovering is finding myself at the bottom of a hill with no energy and having to get up it to get home. I've had that once or twice out on walks where i thought i was fine, and then suddenly your body goes into limp mode. For that reason my something with a decent amount of power available if i need it is probably best. I have been looking at the Orbea options as well but the most recent models are a little spendy.

I've got a Spesh Turbo Levo SL, 2023 model so not the newer more powerful. I ride 100% lakes, and even did the Whinlatter demo day last year when i was looking for an ebike. Tried the Cube, Orbea Rise and a Yeti £12k superbike.

The Spesh is great. I've used it on all day rides, garburn pass (twice) in one day, all over. Mine doesn't have the range extender which is handy for longer days

I bought mine as the lakes often requires lifting a bike over something. Full fat ebikes weigh too much for that nonsense. Yes, an ebike is weighty but the Levo SL rides fantastic unassisted. I ride in eco for most of the ride with trail towards the end when I'm tired. With the app you can select how much power you want from each setting.

Any ebike is a compromise. Reliability, weight etc but for me the Levo SL is ideal.

It's easy to turn an Orbea Rise into a full fat ebike via software (if you're inclined) and works well on the Hydros with the 540 watt battery.
There's nothing special about the 'RS tune' it's just a power and torque limited EP6/EP801.
It's a shame they don't come out the box like that - allowing the user to choose the config to suit their riding.

I've set my Rise power/torque limits just slightly less than full fat.
Typically on local blast I'll ride mostly in trail and use boost on the climbs. I'll use 90% of the battery in approx 35km with 1000m of climbing.
Or I can turn it right down and ride for ages.

The Rise does have it's issues but I enjoy mine. And they're relatively cheap at the moment.

50-60k range in eco with ~2k of climbing

I have a Rise (Alloy - 540wH) and would be quite happy tackling that distance/ elevation on the standard battery. I've got an extender but I'd only really use that for say, 40 miles with over 4k of elevation.

You'd get a pretty good work out but with distance/ elevation in that range, I don't even think you'd need to scrimp too badly on the assistance level.

I think the pace you ride at has the biggest impact on range. I ride solo at my own pace and vary the effort based on how far I've got to go and how much time I have to do it. If you're trying to keep up with people on FF bikes then an SL isn't going to cut it I don't think.

Look at giant trance e. Lightest full power ebb I know of

There’s nothing special about the ‘RS tune’ it’s just a power and torque limited EP6/EP801.
It’s a shame they don’t come out the box like that – allowing the user to choose the config to suit their riding.

I think the new one is? I’m sure I’ve read something about the 2 profiles switching between full fat and half fat?

Edit: yep, 85nm available now, they’re calling it “RS+”

Edit: yep, 85nm available now, they’re calling it “RS+”

Yep I think it’s actually the battery change that allows it to use the full 85nm. Many people unlocked their old Shimano motors to do the full 85nm but that risked frying the battery

Apparently if you use the range extender you can’t get the full 85nm on the new bike

I think the 360w Rise batteries had the issues? Plenty of unlocked Rises with the 540w batteries.

jedi
Look at giant trance e. Lightest full power ebb I know of

Missed all the hype then??

. https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/cannondale-moterra-sl-deep-dive-into-lightweight-full-power-emtb/

It's not so much an 'issue' with the 360wH batteries, it's not a fault. It's more that they're not able to supply enough current to support the full power of the motor. Even though the motor is unlocked, you still end up with a limited power because the battery can't supply the amps that the motor requires at full power.

I'd like to see if it can sustain peak power like the giant I rode. Lightweight full power is the way to go

I’d like to see if it can sustain peak power

what does that mean? and why do you need it (if it means pedalling hard in Turbo for an hour or something?!) ?

FunkyDuncFree Member

Yep I think it’s actually the battery change that allows it to use the full 85nm

You can fit a regular non-RS Shimano motor to a Rise with no issues

I have both types and did write a long post yesterday but the forum crashed when I posted it and it disappeared.

Short answer is extensively test ride both types and decide for yourself but IME lighter is better and unless you want an eGnarpoon you have loads to choose from.

I’d like to see if it can sustain peak power like the giant I rode. Lightweight full power is the way to go

It did on a test ride route that I did at Gisburn. Admittedly only a 5 mile loop, 500ft of climbing

Recent Heckler SL rider, Only use the higher setting for very steep slopes / hills. Use the 12 second turbo mode very rarely and usually just to see if it still works.

Mate rides a Mk1 Levo SL and a Whyte 160 eeb. The Mk1 Levo is noticably lower powered than the Heckler SL, according to him. He prefers it to the full fat Whyte for the riding he usually does.

Not sure why I would need more power as it matches my riding ambitions. My body (wrists / arms / neck) is generally tired after 30 miles anyway. In 5 years when my knees have gone I can see me wanting more powers then.

I've been knocking about on a Kenevo SL since January. It weighs approx 18kg, and I weigh around 53kg, so if you're heavier obviously the range you get out of it would be reduced.

I ride with people who have full-fats and they like to run them in a mixture of emtb and turbo modes, which means I'm forced to run mine in Turbo all the time because I don't have a hope in hell of keeping up with them otherwise!

The best I've managed in a single day was 40 miles/65km and 7000ft/2100m of climbing at BPW, using the internal battery and a single range extender. If I was happy/able to run it in eco, the bike would easily manage double that.

If you do get a KSL I recommend trying it as a mullet because it feels like a big old barge of a bike to turn otherwise. Before this I had an Orbea Rise, it was a good bike (until it broke) but it's not a patch on the KSL in terms of descending capability and general fun factor.

I weigh around 53kg, so if you’re heavier

Erm, yeah, probably since I was 13! 😳

Have a watch of this. Him and his Dad are sponsored to ride Orbea bikes, but they normally ride the Wild.

Rodney thinks the light version is more poppy, playful and better on steep stuff than a full fat.

I've ridden a Kenevo SL and a Santa Cruz Heckler.

Both are great bikes. The Heckler can do what the Kenevo can do if you de-tune the motor, and then so much more if you don't.

Theres less than 5 kgs difference it weight. Whilst the ride is a touch different from each other, I don't find it matters.

I'll take the Heckler. I don't see the point of restricting oneself. YMMV.

I have a Rise (22 H30) and it is fine but when you look at it the Rise is in fact a full fat ebike with a medium sized battery and power restricted by software.  The build makes it lighter than many e-bikes but really I think the power restriction is pointless, the user may as well be given the choice.

So I vote full fat but as always try to demo a few if possible.

I have a Trek exe, it's great for what I do. I ride black/off piste most of the time, it can handle it fine. I'm 60 so I ride with due respect for my inability to bounce any more but it's very like my PYGA Hyrax manual bike . Range is about 25 miles but I like to work a bit still so eco gets used a lot. I rode a couple of full fats recently and found them to be heavy and cumbersome.

Btw the cannondale is 45.5lb and the trance 43lbs

I still wanna know what this means and why!

sustain peak power

Some ebike claim 85nm but that's only a peak it hits not sustainable . I've ridden a few and tje giant is closest I've felt to an acoustic bike in manoeuvre ability.

Ah, right. No idea where/what measures the Nm, but no complaints about my Moterra (non SL), so, er .. moving on. All I’d say about Giant is… warranty.

When people mention range anxiety, I really do wonder how far you want to ride? Or do you want to just blitz everything in turbo?

I own (it's for sale as it's too big for me) a kenevo SL and I've done 25 miles and 3000ft of climbing, I used just over 50% battery (no range extender) in 2hrs 40.

I now own a levo SL 1.2, and the range isn't as good as the older 1.1, but it still does me fine.

If you want to only own a single bike the lower weight bikes make sense, they ride/handle/jump closer to an normal bike. They can (god forbid) be easily loaded onto uplift trailers and they aren't hard to load into vehicles.

I think when it comes to ebikes, you just pick a motor/battery/ brand and then preach to everyone that's the best option 😂

“Maintain full power”

the 85Nm is the torque Jedi, that is not peak power. Motors have a max torque. Motors also have max peak power outputs, in W, which they can or can’t maintain. That depends on lots of things, like battery, motor, heat, % charge remaining. Generally the whole subject is super confused and companies are mixing Nm and W and what is full power anyway? Take the SX, it’s full power limited torque… how does that work (answer, you need to pedal really fast!) Motera is the lightest full power? What about my Rise LT, it has 85Nm and weighs almost a kg less. If you take the average peak power over battery charge cycle which has the higher W? I don’t know the answer but I’d guess they aren’t very different.

Which is more important, max torque or peak power? I guess it depends on what your average cadence is? At what cadence does W become more important than Nm?

It’s a really interesting subject and everything, IMHO, is really confused now. I think some manufacturers are doing that deliberately because they must know that they are being misleading or just telling part of the story.

Power and torque are related, which makes the whole deal even more complicated.

Gold top, green top or red top, pick one and be a dick about it.

the 85Nm is the torque Jedi, that is not peak power. Motors have a max torque. Motors also have max peak power outputs, in W, which they can or can’t maintain. That depends on lots of things, like battery, motor, heat, % charge remaining. Generally the whole subject is super confused and companies are mixing Nm and W and what is full power anyway? Take the SX, it’s full power limited torque… how does that work (answer, you need to pedal really fast!) Motera is the lightest full power? What about my Rise LT, it has 85Nm and weighs almost a kg less. If you take the average peak power over battery charge cycle which has the higher W? I don’t know the answer but I’d guess they aren’t very different.

it does seem deliberately vague.

Power and torque are related, which makes the whole deal even more complicated

especially when these figures are at the crank and there is a second drivetrain between that and the rear wheel.

If something is "full power but low torque" then there must be a cadence that will allow it to develop that full power. Is that an acheivable one? And does it need any more than the bare minimum input from the rider? i.e. if you spun your legs at 40W at 90rpm (which is barely touching the pedals) would it output the full 500W max/250W continuous? But if there was a trail obstacle, you coasted to negotiate it and slowed slightly, you would need to pedal yourself back up to 90rpm to get the benefit for full power again?

To be honest, that sounds like a lot of fun to me. I love a hard sprint and power move; having some help for/speeding up the zone 3 continuous effort in between would help this overweight and undertrained casual trail rider get more of them in before I head back home exhausted.

But... this would seem to be the exact opposite of what the older/illness recovery demographic will want - removing the zone 4 and 5 efforts?

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

But… this would seem to be the exact opposite of what the older/illness recovery demographic will want – removing the zone 4 and 5 efforts?

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

No.

Example - on the FB Levo/Kenevo pages there are constant posts regarding drivetrain wear, basically folk use Turbo and consequently the highest gears with low cadence and destroy chains & the smaller cogs of cassette.

I've a KSL, suits me fine and when I ride with full-fats I just have to use turbo sometimes - still covers enough miles/feet to wear even the fittest out,

If something is “full power but low torque” then there must be a cadence that will allow it to develop that full power. Is that an acheivable one? And does it need any more than the bare minimum input from the rider? i.e. if you spun your legs at 40W at 90rpm (which is barely touching the pedals) would it output the full 500W max/250W continuous?

That's how your 'delivery rider's special' ebikes are set up, and pretty much how Lime bikes feel to ride.  You can put a load of effort in but it doesn't make a huge amount of difference.

The Orbea Rise you absolutely need to be in the 80-100 range to get full power/torque out of it.  The Specialized and Bosch motored full fats I've ridden give much more power at much lower cadences.

However, some of that is down to settings - if you turn the 'assist character' setting up in the Shimano e-tube app it will give you more power at lower cadences/torque input.  (it would be nice if there was a clearer explanation of what the settings did - perhaps with graphs)

You can customize each power assist level (Eco, Boost & Trail), resulting in 10 levels of assist character in total. Torque assist is applied according to pedal pressure – when the setting is moved to Eco, battery consumption is saved by the unit offering less assist. If you move the setting to powerful, you will find that acceleration is sharper as assist is provided even with low pedal pressure.

The timing of assist can also be adjusted – if you set it to mild, assistance will be smooth and balanced, whereas if you set it toward quick, it will be provided as soon as the crank is rotated.

The Orbea Rise you absolutely need to be in the 80-100 range to get full power/torque out of it.  The Specialized and Bosch motored full fats I’ve ridden give much more power at much lower cadences.

For sure that is the case with the older Rise. The new one is designed around a lower cadence. I think around 40-60 because in testing Orbea found that on technical trails it was a more natural motor response because riders were pedalling slower. Personally it suits me much more.

The reason you can get more power at lower cadence is a function of max torque and max power. If you know max power and max torque you can calculate the cadence where that max power can be developed. Power is Torque x Cadence, you just need to apply a factor to convert Cadence to rpm. Then the other thing is the assist mode, which specifies how hard you need to pedal to get the max assistance. I always think how few people understand the difference between Torque and BHP in a car... so it's not surprising that e-bikes are the same.

I don't know if that is explained well! There are a lot of things which are non-intuitive I think.

If something is “full power but low torque” then there must be a cadence that will allow it to develop that full power. Is that an acheivable one? And does it need any more than the bare minimum input from the rider? i.e. if you spun your legs at 40W at 90rpm (which is barely touching the pedals) would it output the full 500W max/250W continuous? But if there was a trail obstacle, you coasted to negotiate it and slowed slightly, you would need to pedal yourself back up to 90rpm to get the benefit for full power again?

Here for example, Bosch SX. 60Nm, 600W max. So to get that max power you need to be pedalling at around 100rpm. Realistically I know I'm never going to pedal that fast, so I won't get the max power. It doesn't make the motor bad though, just that for me the motor will react nicely as I pedal but the max power I will see is realistically 350-400W. I haven't used one but I bet it feels great because... Bosch!

For sure that is the case with the older Rise. The new one is designed around a lower cadence. I think around 40-60 because in testing Orbea found that on technical trails it was a more natural motor response because riders were pedalling slower. Personally it suits me much more.

so this is where the Orbea RS 'tune' becomes a bit opaque - the RS firmware clearly limits both max power and max torque (but torque is limited by the power modes - you only get the max torque in Boost on profile 2 anyway).

What I've never been clear on is whether the rest is just the pre-sets in the app it's delivered with (which is definitely what some people claim on line)  - so that you could set up any Shimano motored bike to ride like a rise - or whether other 'non-user' settings are different.

The 'character' of an e bike is a combination of the torque/power and how it delivers it:

• cadence
• rider power/torque input
• how quickly the support starts and increases
• over-run when rider input stops (Shimano motor has minimal. Specialized has a lot and it's user configurable)

The shimano app now looks like this, but the Y axis isn't labelled (torque? cadence?).

All the modes have assist start set to quick on delivery and I've never seen any point in slowing it.

so this is where the Orbea RS ‘tune’ becomes a bit opaque – the RS firmware clearly limits both max power and max torque (but torque is limited by the power modes – you only get the max torque in Boost on profile 2 anyway).

Not really, I don't think. This is how all motors work, with assist modes which change the max outputs. The RS tune, as I understand, isn't just a setting on the app, it changes the motor response curves which us punters don't have access to. The torque is not limited, its the full torque of 85Nm, only in top mode, unless you set it otherwise (as with any motor). The power is slightly limited, aimed at offering more range and a more natural pedalling feel. Interestingly you don't feel that limit.

Anyway, Rise is a bike pretty close to my heart, I don't want to derail the thread. I was aiming to talk a bit more generally about the full fat - lightweight idea and what it actually means.

I don’t know if this is really helpful, since I’ve only had it for 2 weeks. I now have a Mondraker Neat.  18.5 kg apparently. Descending, I had barely tell the difference between that and my 160mm trail bike (160mm Kingdom Hex).

the point I thought I’d mention is that the TQ motor apparently ‘only’ supplies 50KW. But I just can’t imagine needing that turbo mode in real life. I only use it for playing purposes. It gives a comical amount of assistance. I can’t imagine ever needing more than that turbo mode, and to be honest, if I was range conscious, I’m not sure I would ever switch out of eco mode.

I would consider whether you plan to go on rides with others who are on full fat e bikes ,in which case you will be under powered. If riding on your own or with fitter people who are astride non assisted bikes then you will be fine. I have a Trek Rail which pretty much only gets used if everyone on the ride is on ebikes otherwise I feel like nobody really gets a great ride as people are either hanging around or blowing a gasket trying to keep up. Also if everyone is on an ebikes you have the option to do rides that would be no fun without assistance

 I can’t imagine ever needing more than that turbo mode,

Have you tried a full fat ebike? Try one, the power is addictive, but I still prefer my TQ motord trek fuel exe overall, but if they did one with the power, torque and range of a full fat bike but at the weight Of my fuel exe I'd be all over it.

TQ motor apparently ‘only’ supplies 50KW

It's 50nm(of torque) and 300w of power for the tq motor

I've ridden a Levo and Kenevo SL a few times, and own a current Levo SL.

There's no right answer to this. If you are going to the Alps, of course a full power bike will be a better choice. If you are a 'MOAR LAPS! MOAR POWERRRR!' type rider, then again a full power bike will be better.

That said I've done 2000m of climbing and 50Km on a Kenvevo Sl and the battery (just....) lasted. I did ride unassisted for the first part of the ride on the mellow climb. I have a range extender for my Levo SL but in 7 months haven't used it. The climbs around Squamish aren't huge, but they are not small either. Rides are generally between 1-3hrs without stopping for significant lengths of time.

My Levo SL weighs under 44lb with Formula coil fork up front, EXT E-storia coil shock in the back, rear tyre insert etc etc. I have no idea how E-bikes can end up so heavy. Some of the ones at work must be 65lb 😀

To start with it’ll be used to help build back fitness after a bout of long covid, so probably max 2-3h per ride this year which makes the diet version a no brainer.

Oxymoron.

Something with the Fazua 60 (Heckler SL or the cheaper version: Focus Jam2 SL) with removable battery you can take a 2nd battery. Very impressed with the range on these motors (even with just the one battery).