[Closed] Froome vs Wiggins

I was actually wondering what Wiggins would be thinking as he sits at home and watches the stage today.

Also, nice spoiler.

I think he will attack at strategic times to just emphasise how he can if he wants to to deter anyone from really trying. They must all psychologically know that he is at a different level and there only hope is that he has a bad day. a really bad one.
I reckon he will attack for all summit finishes but he does not really need to do anything - he is the fastest TT amongst the GQ as well so he has it in the bag

Once he has 5 mins or so he will just defend
As for when he supported Wiggo the issue was more how he would cope for a whole Grand tour but he would certainly have a Vueleta - TdF I am less convinced off but we will never know for sure.

Froome could have won 2 Grand Tours already - but then sky is not known for adapting to changing situations.

Get spoiler in the bloody title!

So a good stage in the tour today for Froome and it's pretty clear he could've destroyed Wiggins in the tour last year and won 2 Grand Tours already , probably could've won a handful of Olympic golds as well. Must have been some great performance by him today then , I didn't see it live and don't think I'll bother watching the highlights now you've told me the result . Thanks for that .

Well you're going to miss some great cycling if you don't.

I think it's pretty unfair to say froome could have destroyed wiggins in last years tour.
this years, yes, but last years had a lot more tt mileage in it.
And are you seriously saying there was some form of team orders in the olympic time trial? Everyone gave it their all, and wiggins won.

If people are Ssoo upset by spoilers then keep off the bike channels as there's a good chance someone will say something about it.Also looking at the name of the title,it's kind of obvious what might be mentioned in it ....Just a thought like........

Of course you could just carrying on regardless & moan about bloody spoilers all the time.I hear some people aren't happy unless they're moaning about something....... 8)

TBH i think doing blatant spoilers is pretty low and a shitty thing to do
I am not sure this is one mind from title alone

Let me guess , I'm going to miss Froome riding away up the last climb and putting time into all the major contenders . Thanks but I'll watch tomorrows stage live , that will do for me .

And are you seriously saying there was some form of team orders in the olympic time trial? Everyone gave it their all, and wiggins won.

If that was directed at me then no I was trying to be sarcastic , must've been too subtle for you 😆

I think evans will win

If your first spoiler was this thread I am honestly shocked. It's been on the news etc. also reading the title should have given even the semi intelligent a clue that today's first mountain stage may be mentioned.

It's also all over Twitter and Faceache. It's still worth a watch. Reminds me of the Likely Lads!!

Epic rides done by several and some not so epic performances from some of the favourites.

I have to agree - the highlights will be great. The attacking from other teams up the first climb. The descending speed of some riders and of course Porte smiling lots!

For goodness sake...

Every year, without fail, someone comes on to a bicycle website knowing full well that the days racing at the Tour will be discussed and gets all weepy when they find out the days result.

Stay away, simples.

Cheers, spoily mcspoilerson, I spent all day trying to avoid that. Anyhow, Wiggins vs Froome? Froomes certainly a better climber, and possibly the better rider, but I just can't take to him. Yes I know, Wiggins can be a miserable get, but anyone who offers to do the raffle numbers whilst on the tour de France podium will always get my vote.

Oh God, not this one again.

The plan in 2012 was for Wiggins to win the Tour. Not Froome, not Porte. Wiggins.
He did and that's a team effort.

Yes, there was the infamous bit where (according to Sky) he misheard Yates saying "slow" and instead thought he'd said "go" but other than that one bit, Wiggins put loads of time into him in the TTs and Froome was already 90 seconds down after that puncture early on on one of the stage finishes.

So no, he wouldn't have won. Could have won yes had the team put all their weight behind him but that wasn't the plan.

I'm in agreement about Sky being slow to adapt when their one and only plan doesn't work (like at the Vuelta where Froome could definitely have won) and in fact if it wasn't for time bonuses, he would have won. But you don't hear this about any other team so why bang on about it with Sky? They have two strong riders, only one of them can wear yellow and last year, politically, it HAD to be Wiggins.

Its a bit early for your authoritarian post no ? Correct me if im wrong but im fairly certain theres another two weeks of having fun on bikes before anybody wins a tour de france.

crikey
For goodness sake...

Every year, without fail, someone comes on to a bicycle website knowing full well that the days racing at the Tour will be discussed and gets all weepy when they find out the days result.

Stay away, simples.

Its not hard to do this unless off course you are the kind of person who gets pleasure from ruining other folks plans/pleasure ...are you really like that ? Do you really want to defend folk who do things to just ruin other folks fun?

I still dont think this is a spoiler title but i do think they should not be allowed

Junkyard, you are essentially suggesting that it's up to everyone else to preserve your ignorance, and that you should take no personal responsibility for preserving it yourself?

Like, for example, not coming to a site where you know it is a topic of interest and will be discussed, and perhaps, maybe, not clicking to open a thread which has the name of one of the Tour favourites in it?

If you don't want to know you stay away. If you can't stay away don't blame someone else.

Stupid is as stupid does, Forrest...

so you are one of the people who like to ruin other folks fun 😥

I feel sorry for you

As i noted the topics can easily be discussed without spoilers
Spoliers are rarely accidental they are done deliberately by folk to ruin other enjoyment of the highlights
Its sad that folk would enjoy doing this.

It is not hard to be able to discuss footie, TdF, F1 etc on here without giving the result way in a title and it happens all the time
You do not have to take responsibility you simply have to not deliberately spoil it with a title

As for the stupid bit [ ohh you are so hurtful you nasty beastie :roll:] I would rather be "stupid" than an insensitive person who liked ruining other folks fun or someone who defended it then insulted those who were annoyed

Reply inna Junkyard style:

so you are one of the people who like to ruin other folks fun

There is no evidence for this supposition.

I feel sorry for you

Your sympathy is misplaced, see above.

Spoliers are rarely accidental they are done deliberately by fok ti ruin other enjoyment of the highlights

Again, there is no evidence of this, or of the malicious intent you seem determined to apportion.

As for the stupid bit [ ohh you are so hurtfull you nasty beastie :roll:] I would rather be "stupid" than an insensitvie person who liked ruining other folks fun

Again, there is no evidence of any attempt to ruin anyone's fun, but an emerging picture of someone who is determined to find someone else to blame for his own oversight.

To paraphrase Forrest Gump; 'Life is like a box of chocolates, if you don't want to see chocolates, best not go to the chocolate shop and look in the chocolate box'

good god you lot

Crikey you do realise said person has been permanently banned from another mtb website for arguing dont you!

EDIT: I dont post on other websites so I have not been banned anywhere if you meant me.

Reply inna Junkyard style:

I hit big yesterday and I am really trying to give it up
I shall let the hive mind decide on spoiling and [ given how easy it is to avoid doing] what motivates folk to do it

Junkyard knows that people only post thread titles that turn out to be spoilers deliberately, and never by accident.

With psychic powers as good as that it would be impossible to avoid any result anyway, so 'spoilers' make no difference whatsoever to him.

Therefore, junkyard is a troll.

🙂

I hate spoilers; it's just inconsiderate

Not sure this thread is a good example though, unless the title has been modded (and it doesn't look that way)

With a bit of thought from others we [i][b]should[/b][/i] be able to come on here without seeing the result of something. I do agree that you have to apply some common sense and I'd certainly not go opening a thread entitled "froome vs wiggins" on a day when froome's been racing

Does it matter?
They were riding for a team ... History would has been littered with "what ifs"
Head to head, Froome might have won the mountains ... but elsewhere?

....I can't see any other GC contenders being able to put any pressure on him from here on in...

Bit early for such certainty init?

As for froome "destroying" Wiggins? The GC isn't won simply on one storming stage... Who's to say he's not bolloxed himself for the next stage now?

As a rider froome is undoubtedly the beneficiary of the last 3 years of work and learning that sky as a [U]Team[/U] that includes Wiggins, whether or not he's competing in this years TDF this year...

Surely Sir Chris?

Bruce Willis is deed!

I reckon some of you guys would complain if someone gave you advance notice of the lottery numbers!

if froome-dog blows them away on sun,the yellow is his....i saw no one in GC that could touch him apart from his own team mate,mr.porte an he's 51 sec behind.

Apologies for my insensitivity not to include spoiler in the title, it wasn't a deliberate act designed to spoil anyone's enjoyment.

As others have said though I would have thought with Chris Froome's name mentioned in the title it might have been a hint that the thread was relating to some event he was involved in today.

pop larkin,

Very droll... 🙂

any idea if there is a highlights show tonight?

Yeah, on ITV4 and ITV4 +1, you just missed both..

Might be able to watch it on ITV player.

Eurosport highlights on at 11pm tonight. Otherwise they'll show it again tomorrow morning before Stage 9 coverage starts.

Froom v wiggins. Wiggins wins every time purely for his immense amount of cool. Froome looks like a 4th cat with an even higher stem and arms that mr elastic would be proud of. Not arsed, I hope Porte wins, at least he makes it look good.

And please nobody call him froome-dog.

Froom v wiggins. Wiggins wins every time purely for his immense amount of cool. Froome looks like a 4th cat with an even higher stem and arms that mr elastic would be proud of. Not arsed, I hope Porte wins, at least he makes it look good.

And please nobody call him froome-dog.

I really hate to admit it, but this. A thousand times this.

However I'm willing to change my opinion should Froome become cooler.

Highlights repeated Sunday morning at 11:00

froome dog = AWESOME 😈

I wasn't sure last year but it's pretty clear from today's stage that Froome could have destroyed Wiggins in the mountains last year.

You seem to forget that Froome's preparation was severely disrupted by his illness, so wasn't as fit as he is this year. and that not only was Wiggins in top form, but he had earned the right to lead Sky by his results earlier in the year. and that the course suited a time-trialller like Wiggins rather than a climber like Froome

I don't normally comment in threads like this but heck... Froome just was awsomnez, I sat gobsmacked as he rode off the front and drenched in sweat, dear God. I'm also in awe of Porte, just a totally solid ride and to tow Froome up for a bit too..
I still can't get my head around Bertie being dropped..
As said, awesome.

Bertie is off the pop now. That is why he got dropped.

Froome doesn't half look unhealthy though doesn't he. Too skinny. Mrs FD says he looks more unhealthy than a lot of kemo patients she deals with

Climbers & GC candidates always seem to look unhealthy

I remember Rasmussen in 2007 looking like he was auditioning for a part in Schindler's List

Apparently Froome was 10 seconds faster up there than Armstrong back in 2003, pretty good going.

"Apparently Froome was 10 seconds faster up there than Armstrong back in 2003, pretty good going"

Don't know whether the stage was similar + weather etc etc, which will all obviously have an effect on the time taken too complete a given climb. But, considering what LA was up to in 2003 there is a little worrying thought in the back of my mind...................... 😥

And so it begins.

In reality, those questions are bound to be asked sadly.

Millar is convinced they're clean at Sky - whether that opinion holds any credence though I guess depends on your view of him.

Well I desperately hope Sky are clean. Deep down I think they are.

But 1/2 and demolishing the rest of the peloton, not a few seconds, it does smack of USPS. I certainly think we're seeing Bertie riding clean now!

@gozbike

Chris Froome appears to ride like he's pushing a shopping trolley. #2013tourdefrance

😀

I don't want to get into this again, have just spend an hour on twitter debating it, but....

I really want to believe in Froome, because he's an exciting rider but todays ride stank. 3rd fastest time up the climb (not faster than armstrong, but not far of it) dropping climbers easily, crossing the line looking fresh, while other climbers cross the line looking dead, totally shot to bits.

Personally I don't think you can go up climbs that fast, pushing out over 400 watts clean.

Apparently Froome was 10 seconds faster up there than Armstrong back in 2003

Here at just under 48 mins you hear Phil describe him as having a terrible day 😀

So a clean Froome was only 10 seconds faster than doper having a bad day - so essentially what you are saying is he is clean
Nice innuendo but the 10 seconds faster than LA does not really cut it

Interestingly Sastre won it so you still have something to fuel the innuendo

It was worryingly one sided but some of this could be down to the traditional gc contenders being clean/much less doped so they're much slower than they used to be. Certainly some of the domestics looked stronger than the leaders. If Sky are caught doping then the sport is completely ****ed so judging from the UCI's past performance there's not a chance of that happening.

I don't think you can go up climbs that fast, pushing out over 400 watts clean.

Could he do that every single day - if he goes out and tears them all new legs every single day you have a point and if he beats Pantinini Alpe duez time both legs then fine I will start to agree

Till then lets accept technology and training moves on
Usain Bolt is faster than ben Johnson but no one thinks he must be a cheat despite the past cheats in that sport

Not doing this as it is pointless whoever won we would say this

For example I wonder what edukator will say as he used to argue they "held something back" to not look like cheating and I guess this will now prove it so either way its proof they dope.

IainFP - Member
Well I desperately hope Sky are clean. Deep down I think they are.

I'm just waiting for Froome(-dog) to turn around and look his main competitor in the eyes before accelerating off up the road. 😈

I did notice in the post race comments they mentioned Contador not being so good "post drugs ban" 😉

As for the spoiler thing, well the thread title isn't as it doesn't mention or even really hint at the result. It would actually have been worse if it had been titled "froome vs wiggins - spoilers" as that would have made it clear Froome(-dog) did something. If you can't avoid reading a thread which is clearly likely to discuss today's stage before you've watched the highlights, then more fool you - it is possible to not read threads about the Tour (which are clearly going to be about the Tour from the title) if you're trying to avoid spoilers.

I'm not a Froome fan but have to say he was amazing today , It's a shame we have to immediately start talking about doping when someone does well.
That said I think the big teams are using PED's but are so far advanced there PED's are not banned substances so therefore clean.
The way Froome accelerated when Contador , Evans and Valverde faded was something else. I'm not a sky fan but Porte and Kiryenka are something else.

Still the 100th tour has been pretty decent so far andIt's prompted me to book a holiday in the south of France for next year.

Boardman did well over this for the hour as did Martin and Wiggo in the time trial for an hour [ 450 + all of them]

Thats a good point and I take it on board. with LA, i was very much "he's doping", i'm not like that with Froome at all, I see stuff I don't believe, but i'm happy to be put right 🙂

I'm not a sky fan but Porte and Kiryenka are something else.

I thought Kennaugh was the best sky support rider today, blinding performance.

Just watched the highlights. I agree Froome/Porte/Sky were fantastic. So to address the point in the thread, could Wiggins have lived with this? I doubt it - I don't think he could have gone with the accelerations up the final climb. However Wiggins won last year and was the best rider overall. Yes Froome looked a bit nippier in a couple of places but Wiggo put time into him in the TTs. Also Froome had no pressure on him. This year the pressure is on Froome. He was stronger today as was Porte but we are only a week in. Watch Contador attack in the coming stages.
As to who is clean or not.....So we have learnt that if it looks too good to be true than it is. However Froome did not win by that much, it was not like Armstrong putting 3 to 4 minutes into everybody on the first mountain finish.

[b]stanfree - Member
That said I think the big teams are using PED's but are so far advanced there PED's are not banned substances so therefore clean.[/b]

The above quote is worth exploring further.
If a substance is a PED but new and therefore not banned yet is it still cheating?

The 'legal highs' market is huge and continually skirts around laws by changing the chemical structure of a substance about to be banned...the inventors/chemists stay one step ahead of the authorities.

Now, if this is being done for something as mundane as kids wanting to get high at the weekend without getting pinged by the Police then who's to say it isnt happening in top level sport?

This is obviously conjecture but it does make one think.
If there is doping i'm sure Brailsford doesnt know, in Tyler Hamilton's book he speaks of the days pre-Festina affair whereby teams had a slush fund and organised doping for the riders but afterwards it was every man for himself and up to the individual to organise their own PEDs.

Anyway enough of the shady side of our sport, it was great theatre and i loved watching it...i'd love Sky to do a one-two with Froome and Porte this year....two years in a row, has it been done before?

Kennaugh was immense too, a coming of age ride for him....he'll be Sky's next main man...they could have a hold on the GC of the Tour for some years yet.

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/apr/27/tim-kerrison-bradley-wiggins-team-sky ]Guardian article[/url]

[i]"Tim Kerrison, the Australian coach behind Bradley Wiggins's Tour de France and Olympic triumphs of 2012, has speculated that one reason for Team Sky's success may be that they have been able to jump into a "knowledge gap" that has been left in cycling as teams focused on the expertise and logistics of doping at the expense of coaching and rider development."[/i]

Porte looks like all the warm weather training back home has paid off (or sat drinking coffee every morning when I saw him) obviously if Porte had been lead up the hill he could have destroyed Froome which means he's actually better than Wiggins which means he could have won last year etc. etc.
In the end of the day Sky are putting a very strong team together, having the 2nd strongest man on the team as a GC contender helps the team leader to do this sort of thing. It's not an accident.
Also it's only the 1st day in the mountains and a very long way to Paris.

Interesting reading comments on other threads about Froome staring at his SRM, his face suggested it was reading 100%/redlined and he was riding as hard as he knew he could.

I'm not a sky fan but Porte and Kiryenka are something else.

Kiryenka is awesomez to watch, completely expressionless, totally smooth with upper body not moving a millimetre, must be soul destroying to be riding alongside with your shoulders rolling obviously hanging out of your @rse.

thought Kennaugh was the best sky support rider today, blinding performance.

agreed for yesterday's stage, nice humble interview where he said he was worried he couldn't live up to the expectation.

they could have a hold on the GC of the Tour for some years yet.

Dunno whether this is deliberate but it certainly appears to be the case, as long as they offer enough incentive for them to stay (promise of a GT team leader role-Porte explicitly mentioned 2014 Giro when he re-signed) you'd have to think long and hard about leaving the strongest team with the biggest budget in order to take them on, they seem to be recruiting and developing so much talent there will be a real legacy.

[i]I wasn't sure last year but it's pretty clear from today's stage that Froome could have destroyed Wiggins in the mountains last year.[/i]

Your talking nonsense and I'm not sure why you're dragging up the old 'froome v wiggins' debate that was done to death last year.

A whole year of specific training has passed since the 2012 tour and the aim of the sky team for 2013 is for froome to win the Tour de France, the aim last year was for wiggins to win.

Froome did an amazing ride yesterday and put a lot if time into his rivals but these two weeks to go and a lot can happen yet.

Your post appears to be from someone who doesn't know a great deal about road riding.

And clearly you've had a rethink from last year.

[i]Big Wig's triumph (fingers crossed) in the Tour de France ranks as the greatest sporting achievement by a Brit ever in my opinion.[/i]

[quote Bruce Willis is deed!

Lol

Interesting reading comments on other threads about Froome staring at his SRM, his face suggested it was reading 100%/redlined and he was riding as hard as he knew he could.

I don't see why people make such a big deal of this. If I'm putting in a big effort on a road climb I'll often have my head down staring at the computer. Just something to focus on, be it maintaining a cadence, power, speed etc. They aren't riding these stages to enjoy the scenery.

Dunno whether this is deliberate but it certainly appears to be the case, as long as they offer enough incentive for them to stay (promise of a GT team leader role-Porte explicitly mentioned 2014 Giro when he re-signed) you'd have to think long and hard about leaving the strongest team with the biggest budget in order to take them on, they seem to be recruiting and developing so much talent there will be a real legacy.

I guess if there really is no doping and Sky's training really is as advanced compared to other teams as they claim then I can see why riders would be reluctant to leave. Having said that Dowsett is doing a great job at Movistar.

Wondering if Wiggins will leave Sky with Porte and Froome earmarked for giro and tour wins next year. Looks like there may be a vacant position for a GC rider at Trek soon.

MrBlobby that was the point I was making, he didnt look like he was conserving or measuring his effort (which seemed to be the insinuation), if he WAS staring at his SRM it wasnt telling him anything his legs and lungs werent!

I think Wiggins will go, as in retire, maybe after a crack at worlds/hour record? He seems to have lost his motivation and Sky don't need him, they could have a different team leader at each grand tour. I was a little irked by his comment about not wanting to ride the Vuelta-not sure being paid ~£2M a year gives you the right to choose whether you do your job or not?

MrBlobby that was the point I was making, he didnt look like he was conserving or measuring his effort (which seemed to be the insinuation), if he WAS staring at his SRM it wasnt telling him anything his legs and lungs werent!

Ah I see... yes I concur 🙂

I think Wiggins will go, as in retire, maybe after a crack at worlds/hour record? He seems to have lost his motivation and Sky don't need him, they could have a different team leader at each grand tour. I was a little irked by his comment about not wanting to ride the Vuelta-not sure being paid ~£2M a year gives you the right to choose whether you do your job or not?

Is a good point. Sponsors money etc. I'm sure they'll want Wiggo to be riding as it's more exposure for the brand. Can't really see him doing the Vuelta though. He may do it as a warm up for the Worlds I guess but typical Vuelta climbs really don't seem to suit him.

Be interesting to see if he has a crack at the hour, especially as Cancellara has said he'd be doing it sometime in the next year.

I wonder if Wiggo has considered a crack at a classics campaign? Reckon physically he'd be well suited to that (reckon the weight loss required for a grand tour is a problem for him and makes him quite fragile.) Would then be an obvious place for him on the Sky classics team.

Edit: ... could get properly excited about Wiggins up against Cancellara and Sagan next spring. Wiggo, please make it so (as I'm sure you are bound to be following this forum.)

Now, if this is being done for something as mundane as kids wanting to get high at the weekend without getting pinged by the Police then who's to say it isnt happening in top level sport?

This is obviously conjecture but it does make one think.

I agree that is indeed conjecture

Not sure where people are getting the idea that Froome was quicker than Armstrong up the climb from. He wasn't! Close to his time yes, but not quicker.

Not sure where the idea that Wiggo looks cool on a bike is coming from either?! His TT position is easily the most classy in the peloton, but on a road bike he looks like a bag of spanners....cast your mind back to the Giro and remember his elegant descending style. Then again compared to the visual massacre that is Froome on a bike I suppose he doesn't look too bad.

the visual massacre that is Froome on a bike

Indeed, he's all arms and legs, plus tall so a spindly bike - puts me in mind of a spider trying to use chopsticks.

All I know is I like my yellow jersey wearer to have attacked in the mountains, regardless of who they are.
I'm still sore about Fignon losing to an aerodynamic saddle when he did all that hard work.

He looks bloody fast on a bike who cares about "form"

he does look thin and spindly though

I'm still sore about Fignon losing to an aerodynamic saddle when he did all that hard work.

It was the aerobars that cost Fignon ,according to his book he then went to use them in a race later in the year and they wouldnt let him

Indeed, he's all arms and legs, plus tall so a spindly bike - puts me in mind of a spider trying to use chopsticks

a preying mantis pushing a shopping trolley whilst gripping mobile phone between shoulder and ear?

I'm reading Wiggins book ATM it actually goes into a fair bit of detail about how sky went about 2012, and presumably how they will be going about 2013 now.

The one thing that comes across is how important Kerrison and Sutton were to Wiggins win and the the fact that to take a GC a team leader needs to be a proper team leader...

Leading after a mountain stage with two weeks left means almost nothing if the GC win is your goal, a sustainable pace, higher than his competition for the next 14 days is what froome really needs, I'd like him to win I just hope he's not torn his own legs off for a stage win forgetting the bigger picture, he'll have been in the red a fair bit yesterday so of course he was looking at the SRM.

All of this has happened before and will happen again....

Admittedly I know next to bugger all about road racing, but that performance definitely seems suspicious to me - and Sky's dominance kind of casts doubt on Wiggins' win last year as well. As above I would suspect stuff that isn't yet banned. Hope I'm wrong.