[Closed] Front lights - 1000 Chinese lumens vs £100+ sets

I have had a couple of chinese lights for a year or so and they are great.

Minor gripe is that the velcro straps for the battery holders could be better, although I have noted that some of my mates who have purchased more recently have ones with double straps.

Factor in the battery may be a refurbished laptop battery so may not last, but still a decent battery for about £50 [i]if[/i] needed, is still cheaper.
Yes the quoted light output is often [i]enthusiastic[/i] but they are still damn bright.

The lights are great. Perfectly good for night riding at a bargain price. The batteries are a bit hit and miss. I've had a couple of good ones and one duffer. Easily upgraded though.

Remind me why I shouldn't just cough for a crappy Chinese light an bin it at the end of winter please.

Don't forget to budget for when the crappy battery explodes while being charged and burns your house down

Remind me why I shouldn't just cough for a [s]crappy[/s] Chinese light an bin it at the end of winter please.

cos you'll get several winters out of it so, so don't bother binning it.

I run a couple of these, well made, nothing like claimed lumens, but very very bright. Run at medium it's fine for high speed off road in the peak district. just got another for the helmet. £15 delivered...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301912453511?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

helmet mount I use the supplied o-rings and helmet mount. on the bars I use a Lumicycle QR mount.

Battery life on medium is over 3 hours, never ridden longer but the gauge LED is still green.

Buy a Chinese light. Buy an intellicore charger, your own waterproof 18650 case and a load of batteries from torchy the battery boy off eBay.

Aldi have a cycle gear special next Thursday (or pre-order online now), which includes a Moon Nebula front and rear replica for ~£13 each.

The real Nebula rear is amazing!

Might not be so good for off-road, but commuting...

If you ride a lot, then the >£100 lights are a better bet. Better sealed, better batteries, better cables etc and they will last many winters, not just one. If you factor in the cost of a battery and charger upgrade, the cheap light is pushing towards £100 anyway.

I should have mentioned, I have just bought a battery pack from smudge at MBT Batteries so that issue is covered

Some of them used to just quote the maxium possible output from their LED compliment, something that wasn't acheivable when you factor in heat, regulation, etc.

Now they just quote numbers that are completely impossible.

The battery packs are hit and miss and the chargers can be dangerous.

By the time you have bought a safe charger and batteries you are approaching the cost from somewhere like mtbbatteries, and definitely past C and B Seen.

So I would suggest C & B Seen as the first port of call, and then mtbbatteries if you feel flusher.

Get a bar and helmet set.

If you get the mtbbatteries set I wager that you won't be buying another set for several years.

http://www.candb-seen.co.uk/category-cycling.html

http://www.mtbbatteries.co.uk/mountain-bike-lights/

In that case, get a luminator head unit from Smudge. Job done.

It's the batteries that are the big cost and they are the biggest upgrade

I have a good chinese bar light (Nitefighter BT40s) with a separate 4 cell battery pack, good panasonic 18650s and a 4 bay charger (that I had already)

That lot is probably pushing £100 on it's own I guess. My solarstorm was cheap but the battery pack was cheap too. Only upgraded the head as water got into it, it still works but I don't trust it enough on a night ride

The cost is all in the battery and a warranty with a UK based seller.
Typically the ~£100 2000lm lights are all much the same, they are all using 2xXML U2 with similar housings/optics etc.

Since you've already got the battery, you can spend ~£20 on a head lamp from ebay, or you can spend ~£15 more to get it from a UK distributor that'll help you out if something goes wrong.

These are great:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01HHNBPYW
(5000lm might be a [i]slight[/i] exaggeration!)
Had one of the older, single LED ones and the battery just packed up. Unfortunately didn't explode, could've done with the insurance payout. It just refused to charge.

Is there a good budget bike light that does not have an external battery pack?

Most of the lights with integrated batteries tend to be high end, or commuter lights.

For a budget helmet light I'm using this torch from C and B seen...

http://www.candb-seen.co.uk/product-cb-seen-900-lm-multi-focus-flashlighttorch.html

Add in a couple of 18650's and a charger from Torchy.

After years of using "Cheap" chinese lights, I bit the bullet and bought an Exposure Diablo and haven't looked back. All in one design, plenty of modes UK firm etc. It cost a reasonable amount but I'm confident in it not packing up like all the other chinese ones have. I've had 5 or 6 head units of varying strengths (nearly all of them had the cable come loose and let water in, they were also intermittent, you could happily be riding along and they'd pack up. The last solarstorm I bought registered that it was connected to the battery which had full charge but wouldn't switch on. Dissapointing as when the light worked it was great. The reliability has been so poor. Having had numerous batteries I've never experienced any fireballs or explosions during charging!

eskay - Member

Is there a good budget bike light that does not have an external battery pack?

It depends what you mean by "budget".

I've just ordered an Ituo Wiz20 from Bright Bike Lights @ £94.50 which gets great reviews and Trevor is a top bloke to deal with.

http://www.brightbikelights.com/wiz20-1500-lumen-mountain-and-commuter-light

Alternatively you could take a chance on one of these which could truly be described as budget.

http://www.dx.com/p/t6-2-led-1600lm-5-mode-neutral-white-bike-head-light-w-belt-clip-2-x-18650-420659#.V-UGrTUtqpp

Doesn't include batteries but then at least you can source some decent ones from Torchy.

Might not be so good for off-road, but commuting...

I'm a long time user of Lumicycle for bar lights. They're well made, reliable (in 15 years I've had 1 issue, which happened at the house not on a ride, and it's never recurred - and I've only needed 2 sets of lights in that time, admittedly not riding every week any more, but I suspect that's what did in the first light, leaving the batteries uncharged for so long) and with good backup (I phoned re. the issue, got assured I could send it back if I wanted but it didn't sound terminal to them - it hasn't happened again).

When I bought the replacement, I though about getting a cheap light, but the "oh they're fine if you just make your own sealed battery bag for on the bike and charge them in a biscuit tin" didn't fill me with confidence, and for the money saved it wasn't worth it (plus it's nice to get an honest number of lumens).

When the current light wears out, the only thing that might put me off lumicycle is the seperate battery bag, which doesn't work too well on my frames these days and stems are all too short for it, so it hangs on the bars in a slightly imperfect way. That said, nothing wrong with the cheap lights if you can be arsed faffing.

I admit I have a non-lumicycle helmet light, but if that fails I'm not so much up shit creek as when I used to use bar mounted lights only, and it's form a relatively reputable manufacturer.

I'm a fan of cheap Chinese lights, or at least the Head units (XML U2 LEDs or whatever they come with now) and just paying out for a less explody battery/charger, the lights themselves are an indeed an almost disposable item, the real place for any "Investment" is in batteries IMO.

The only thing at the minute is I prefer not to have wires trailing all over the place on my road bike and Gravel bikes so 18650 call torches and/or lights with integrated batteries suit that need better, I am still impressed with the USB chargeable Magicshine MJ-890 I bought after a PSA here earlier in the year for ~£12, still not bad at £20 I'd say, might buy another.

On the MTB, For helmet mounted lights, definitely go with cheap single or double XML head units with a decent battery in a back pocket or rucksack, for a bit of grunt on the bars same again with the battery in a storage bottle mounted on the frame....

I'll concede the reflector design and beam spread on exposure lights is far better than that of cheap Chinese lights (which all use basic torch reflectors and lenses) but ebay specials still do the job...

Fenix do some integrated lights :

http://www.parkersofbolton.co.uk/products/fenix-bt30r-1800-lumens-rechargeable-led-front-light-c-w-remote?CAWELAID=620001070002484096&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=18186045204&CATCI=pla-41477300408&catargetid=620001070000102016&cadevice=c&gclid=Cj0KEQjwpZO_BRDym6K_nMye7cEBEiQAVA7RaDmdoRIyWAbmOx_ZPBYEDH_42ijH0SIpQXTMU6pj-v0aApK18P8HAQ

I've used various lights over the years, mostly Chinese, Hope or Exposure.

In general, my favorites have been the Hopes but the easiest to live with have been Exposure. Chinese ones, whilst cheap, tend to take a lot of looking after / fettling / replacing bits / binning in my experience.

eskay - Member

Is there a good budget bike light that does not have an external battery pack?

[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/road-riding-in-the-dark/page/2#post-7972568 ]see my recommendation on another, recent thread. I am very impressed with it and so very cheap[/url]

Of the two chinese sets I had, one battery expoded, the other lamp fell apart, no recourse.

I've had MTB batteries for 3 years and all positive correspondence from Mark one might expect.

YMMV

I run 2 of these, one on bars and one on helmet.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171813873607?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&var=470751202004&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Going into there third winter and still running great.

I've used the Chinese lights for about 4 years now. Had a battery die and had to replace for nominal cost. Other than that they have been great.

However - my friend had one explode in his house, melting a shelf and his bedroom carpet. So I would advise a charger that cuts out, or charging them in a cake tin in the garage!

Is there a good budget bike light that does not have an external battery pack?

For solo riding the LOW settings on both is sufficient for 95% of fast XC riding. Goes up to MED on scary stuff.

Cheap, self contained and bright as the sun. Running Torchy batteries so non exploding too. Used a clip on water bottle cage as a mount. It can rotate on a big bump if positioned above the bar. Underneath is not a problem.
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@zippy I looked at some of those 'skyray' torches last winter but didn't bother in the end, how is it on battery life? I only really fancy the 3 LED version TBH as 7/9/11 etc seem a bit OTT.

My commute is off road and normally takes 20 minutes. Admittedly it's not on all the time but I charge them at the end of the week . So far it's never gone flat.
Obviously I wouldn't expect it to run at 100 minutes continuously and not go flat.
It will easily do an hour full beam.
Just carry extra batteries and you can go forever. It takes 4 batteries but will run on one to get you home.
Every time I turn it on I still get excited!

Remind me why I shouldn't just cough for a crappy Chinese light an bin it at the end of winter please.

Sustainability. We need to stop treating our environment as disposable. I've had the same set of Lumicycle bar lights for around five years now. Still working, still brilliant, great customer service on the one occasion I needed it for an ageing switch. They've been used a lot.

@mcnultycop

Buy a Chinese light. Buy an intellicore charger, your own waterproof 18650 case and a load of batteries from torchy the battery boy off eBay.

This is exactly what I've done, they're still going strong 3 years later.

I've had three Chinese lights and the only problem I've had was the mount falling off, easy enough to fix either by replacing the bolt or with Jubilee clips.
However, if you have access to a CNC, I made a collar for mine that means I can fit it on a tripod mount and therefore a GoPro mount. I'm currently making a version that can be 3D printed.

[img] http://imgur.com/2Tjdymy [/img]

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I've got a couple of Solarstorms which came with some amazingly bad batteries.

I think they were about £15 each, spent £20 on a decent battery off the ebay guy people recommend & it's great for the handful of night rides I do, and commuting.

Tend to run a couple as I commute pretty much all the way on back roads, so want to scare off the wildlife with s death wish 🙂

I've tried some mega expensive Exposure lights which were lovely, but at over 10 times the price after my UK source battery, it was complete overkill for my needs.

The problem with the solarstorms is that you have ot have a bit of luck whether you get a good one or not.

I've opened up 3 of them, all very different inside. I presume because it's only the casing that is the solarstorm part and they're getting fitted out inside by different manufacturers with different electronics inside. (Chinese manufacturing innit)

of the 3 the first i had was brilliant, the two i have had since have been terrible.

Worth going for a light from someone who will back up their product. I just bought an mtb light from torchy off ebay and a spare battery.

850lumen from a single LED, a re-celled 5200mah waterproof battery and a smaller backup battery for £60

I got one of the CREE MTB lights from Aldi. £39.99 and 3 year warranty, plenty bright enough too.

Can you get 18650 battery cases without the USB cable? EBay says no.

Why? as somebody said sustainability.

My first set of proper lights were AyUp's they lasted 4 years and are still a backup set, replaced with an exposure diablo more than happy with that so far. As far as lights lumens are one measure but they need good optics and all that to make them a good light

These are my favourite at the moment:
Full setup (with decent cells according to reviews)
http://www.gearbest.com/bicycling-gear/pp_180805.html?wid=21

Head unit only (buy batteries from MTB Batteries or [url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/m.html?_odkw=magicshine&_ssn=hunk_lee&_sac=1&_osacat=888&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR9.TRC1.A0.H0.Xmagicshine+panasonic.TRS0&_nkw=magicshine+panasonic&_sacat=888 ]Hunk Lee[/url])
http://www.gearbest.com/bicycling-gear/pp_182282.html?wid=21

These are great:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01HHNBPYW
(5000lm might be a slight exaggeration!)
Had one of the older, single LED ones and the battery just packed up. Unfortunately didn't explode, could've done with the insurance payout. It just refused to charge.

Has anyone tried the recent Alpkit offering?

Mid price range at £100ish - I'd link if I could get their website to work...

Not sure if they're anymore reliable than standard chinese fare but at least you know the warranty / customer support will be excellent?

Not sure if they're anymore reliable than standard chinese fare but at least you know the warranty / customer support will be excellent?

Sorry, but anything like £100 for what is, frankly, a torch is just mental. I could maybe understand it if you were talking about unsupported forays into the artic circle or similar where robustness and longevity were at a premium but we're mostly pootling around in woods and/or on the commute. 2 years of all weather commuting for me on cheapo Chinese eBay specials. I did cling film the battery pack first but other than that I've done nothing and they've been spot on. I will concede that the pattern isn't a great spread and the period from "going a bit flat" to "off" is disconcerting but for £16 I simply can't fathom the cost differential. Admittedly if my house had melted I'd probably have a different slant.

Sorry, but anything like £100 for what is, frankly, a torch is just mental. I could maybe understand it if you were talking about unsupported forays into the artic circle or similar where robustness and longevity were at a premium but we're mostly pootling around in woods and/or on the commute.

The all in one Exposure I have now is great, love the beam pattern, decent weight an control for an all in one helmet light, lots of control and I expect to be using it in 4 years time.

There's a middle ground between cheap chinese and expensive branded, I got a pair of Magicshine MJ872s about 3 winters ago for I think £70 each. They've both had replacement batteries (largely my fault for not looking after them) but otherwise are still good as new, and came with good chargers too. (it's a very similiar design to the Nitefinder BT40 mentioned up the page)

The real cheapies seem a false economy to me, if nothing else cheap chargers are pretty undependable and the worst case scenarios there are pretty worsty. And the batteries are rarely much cop. So you replace the battery, and then maybe you replace the charger, and you've spent twice as much as the light cost. And they often have pretty horrible beam patterns- with modern light levels, spotlights make no sense, you just end up chasing the bright dot and losing all your peripheral vision, a 1000+ lumen light can give a good field of vision as well as range. But you really don't need to spend a lot.

(I can't make a recommendation but if I had to get a new light tomorrow it'd be a Torchy most likely)

As for selfcontained, it always means settling for less batteries, less power, or a lot of weight on your noggin and it cuts choice and adds cost. You have to really not like cables for it to be a good option for most riding

medoramas - Member

For solo riding the LOW settings on both is sufficient for 95% of fast XC riding. Goes up to MED on scary stuff.

Are you a bat? 200 lumens is really not much.

Buy them on Amazon from Amazon that way u get the a-z guarantee for a refund, as regards blowing up and burning down your house, as with any recharging only recharge them when you are in the house never leave charging when you are out or on work tops or carpet, best to charge on the oven top I'd say

Used to extol the virtues of cheap lights.

Then discovered mtbbatteries lights.

Now on exposure.

Won't be going back.

New helmet light needed here!
Is it worth getting an Exposure Joystick over a tactical light like a Fenix TK15?
The Fenix is cheaper and has a massive beam range.
Would the exposure create a more suitable beam pattern for looking ahead at the trail 20metres or so ahead?

Over the years ive purchesed a bunch of lights. I'd say the sweet sport is around the £100 area. It offers quality, support and usually a decent beam profile.
Much beyond this you have nicer materials and features, but no real increase in output. Below this is usually crap battery's, chargers, clamps etc.

I think the best value light was an inton - I paid £100 and it's still gets used 5 years later.
My new exposure strada 1200 is a quality but of kit but it's the same output as the into but much longer battery life - thanks 5 years of led technology for you. I can't say it's three times better.

The one key thing I've learnt. Output should come second to a decent beam profile. I spent fat too long chasing a very bright circle though the woods.

I would buy the joystick it's a great light and it weighs next to nothing.

Has anyone else tried the ones from Aldi? Cheap at £20

https://www.aldi.co.uk/cree-high-lumen-bike-light/p/070187027744400

If you already have good quality 18650 batteries (3400 Panasonics for example) and the charging kit, then this is worth a look:

https://www.fasttech.com/product/4217401-niwalker-mm15mb-led-flashlight

I got one for £110 from a chinese seller and it's performed brilliantly. You can run @ 2800L for nearly 3 hours. If you need even more light the 6900L Turbo setting is insanely bright - it will turn a football pitch sized area into daylight basically. It has a universal tripod mount so I cheekily purchased the Exposure Bar mount and Shoe and used that. Its rock solid and takes two seconds to mount so no faffing about with shonky wobbly bracketry. I needed to bond on a small aluminium riser plate so the Exposure mount shoe cleared the bezel but easy enough to do.

This is way better than all the other Chinese stuff I've bought over the years and once you've ditched separate batteries there is no going back. Basically you get virtually top end Exposure performance for about a third of the price. Doesn't have the plug and play charging simplicity of the Exposure set - up (you need to take the batteries out obviously)but its not a big issue to me. Ive also got Exposure lights, if you've got the cash they are still the best option out there.

Just ordered a claimed 1000 lumen light from aldi on line reduced from £40 to £20
UK plug and good returns policy
I think for the money you can't go wrong

https://www.aldi.co.uk/cree-high-lumen-bike-light/p/070187027744400

(I can't make a recommendation but if I had to get a new light tomorrow it'd be a Torchy most likely)

I bought a fluxient set from Torchy with a 50% higher power rating than my glowworms for a mate, but was pretty dissappointed in them. Well build though.

after a melted charger and some problems with the original batteries
on an older magicshine light
i rode with this setup quite a while...
18650 samsungs, a good charger and DIY housing...
[img] [/img]

now on exposure...

[Url=just chucked £12 at this on eBay] http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401038253698 [/url]

Plus some some more batteries, reckon I'll be able to try it out in a month or so...

Oh, I see the XHP70 is starting to find its way into inexpensive lights, that could be a big deal if it delivers on potential <orders cheap XHP light from kaidomain>

deano8 - Member

Is it worth getting an Exposure Joystick over a tactical light like a Fenix TK15? The Fenix is cheaper and has a massive beam range.

The joystick helmet mount is pretty much perfect tbh. And the lights are compact and light. Can't relaly comment on the beam quality other than that tactical torches tend to go for narrow beams (for range and for blinding people) which is pretty bad for a bike light. But fenix do make good kit.

My Sunwayman V20c used to be my helmet light. Exposure Diablo now on my lid, nicer beam pattern and more reliable runtime, plus option for rear light

My nitefighter bt40s bar light is often run on low, sometimes medium. Very rarely on high

Zippykona / northwind - thanks for your comments:)

Anyone any experience of the Lezyne Macro drive units?

The 600XL looks good for my needs to replace one of my solarstorms. I know runtime won't be as good but just need something to light the cycle path and want to move away from a remote battery.

I have the 900 version. Really nice beam and easy to use.

Exposure for me, most of my riding is night riding (family duties) and 99% of my riding buddies light issues are from the cheap lights.

Ive had my maxx-d and joystick for 6 years, in those 6 years they have never turned off and i leave them on charge all week without a care in the world, yes they are expensive but they are currently costing me around £50 a year which im more than happy with.

I used cheap Chinese lights for a few years, I had the original magicshine and then a pair of solarstorms (one of which I think is a fake).

I then bought an Exposure Diablo for my helmet as I was starting to ride more without a pack. I added a MaxxD for the bars a month later when all 3 batteries I had for the solar storms decided to throw a fit at once, and the guys at Sherwood pines cycles did me a good deal on the exposure.

If they'd had stock onthe night, I probably would have bought a Hope light instead, but I'm very happy with the exposure, the light spread is fantastic and it pairs very well with the Diablo. Yes they were expensive, but they're about to enter their 3rd winter and I don't expect to need to replace them any time soon! Having the confidence to charge them inside the house is great too as I can come in from a night ride and drop them on the chargers in the office and they're ready for the next days ride.

This has proven perfectly adequate. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172055121022?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Oh, I see the XHP70 is starting to find its way into inexpensive lights

The T6 single led one that accu shows has been good for me for several winters now. No sign of falling apart.

Using good batteries and chargers though from Lupine/Smudge.

I've got a Fluxient light that I use on the bars, cost around £100 a couple of years back. The one with 3 led's, can't remember which type they are but it's bloody bright with a very useful spread of light. Cracking bit of kit and the battery is still going well (has been properly tested). Can't recommend it enough.

Also the charger works well for my solarstorm that I use on the lid, which is also very good and has lasted well.

Thinking of maybe upgrading to an Exposure 6 pack at some point in the future.

I bought the 3000 lumen light from C&Bseen for £65 and it has been amazing. It honestly sounds a bit too good to be true, even came in a nice little zip up carry case?? It feels very well built and came with one of those wireless switches too!

I've been looking at those, out of stock just now and a little more expensive but look promising.

Remind me why I shouldn't just cough for a crappy Chinese light an bin it at the end of winter please.
Sustainability. We need to stop treating our environment as disposable. I've had the same set of Lumicycle bar lights for around five years now. Still working, still brilliant, great customer service on the one occasion I needed it for an ageing switch. They've been used a lot.

This +1 but Exposure instead of Lumicycle - I want things to last and not be disposable. I had three Chinese lights, one didn't work, one lasted a month, one lasted 18 months. As soon as I could afford an Exposure in the sales that's what I got. Maxx-D has done me three years of commuting and night biking without missing a beat. One mount on each bike and it's the quickest, fuss-free lighting out there.

I have a selection; 2/3 Chinese xml lamps the oldest of which is three years old, all on original batteries and chargers. Also have a four4th Genesis with enormabattery which I let get too flat so wouldn't take a charge. Phone call to four4th and posted it back, returned working within a few days. Great off road lamp but beam pattern is purely flood, which I wanted. I have the Chinese lamps mounted as a pair under the bars on the winter bike, one with the flat beam converter that C and B seen did. All bases covered.

I've had cheap chinese lights, torchy lights and now on exposure (Maxx D and a diablo)

Probably 90% of my mtb riding is at night, 30+ min drive each way and possibly my only chance in a week to get out and about.

A ruined ride from a knackered light or battery not holding its charge puts me in a grim mood.

All my old lights have been re batteried and passed on to mates but on more than one occasion they've ended up with my diablo to finish a ride

Always used cheapo chinese lights, current long term fav SolarStorm XT40, only difference is I use a battery box and some TorchyTheBatteryBoy 18650 cells, with an Xtar VP2 charger.

Get around 3-4 night rides from each charge on a mix of high and medium light output.

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Isn't it strange how a lot of the popular Chinese lights are no longer available?

Specifically Yinding 900, NiteFighter BT21 and I just did a search for cruzcampo's Solarstorm XT40 and that's not available either.

Either they're too good or too bad.

I think its more a case of they do a run of x thousand and assume that something new will be ready for the next season.

The UK DIY / cottage lot have said that the speed at which the Far East develops stuff is so fast that they struggle to keep competitive.

I had an expensive light then it broke and I couldn't get it fixed so went cheap chinese. I found that the battery was rubbish (like many others on here) so when it gave up I replaced it with a fully waterproof magicshine version. The light unit went after that so I bought a magicshine light to match the battery. All this has been over a 3-4 year period (the magicshine light/battery is now just starting its 3rd winter).

The problem I found with magicshine / cheap chinese is the o-ring mountings are awful and any kind of decent offroad riding renders them a vibrating mess with lights pointing at all kinds of elevations by the time you stop/get to the bottom. As suggested on here I recently got a Hope Universal Light mount and mounted the magicshine on this; amazing difference. It is a great setup now.

I understand why people would buy the cheap chinese and the exposures et al of the world. However, I think the magicshine's with a decent mount are a good compromise (sat in the middle price wise). They seem to have good longevity but not cost 200+.

abeach - Member

The problem I found with magicshine / cheap chinese is the o-ring mountings are awful and any kind of decent offroad riding renders them a vibrating mess with lights pointing at all kinds of elevations by the time you stop/get to the bottom.

Varies a lot with bars, this, same as the Lupine lights they copied the design from- I used to think it was a user error because it never happened to me but then I swapped to smoother carbon bars and my lights all turned upside down 😆 THe Hope bracket is nice but the easier fix is to put a single wrap of cloth tape round the bar, for grip.

With the late nights coming in quicker with the aid of some cable ties .I have attached a £13Boruit 5000lms cree head torch to my bike and as it was only £13 I bought a second set to keep the batteries charged for spare. I get 2.5 hrs burn time on full with 3x beam from one set of batteries can't argue with that