[Closed] Front end confidence

What’s your front tyre?
How old/worn is it?
What pressure are you running it?

Updated main post, it’s Maxxis Minion DHF 3C MaxxTerra EXO TR 29x2.6in, running around 18psi (tubeless), I’d say 15 months old, and part worn.

Thanks

There’s plenty of talk on here about Magic Mary or Hillbilly or Assegai or Shorty.
Take your pick

It’s years since I’ve been to Gisburn but back then it was all rock and very little slop so your front tyre is unlikely to be the problem. Are you riding too far off the back of the bike?

What do you think is the cause of you losing your confidence?

I was going to say the same as above. I have the same fears, and I absolutely know that it's because I don't have enough weight on the front.
This seems to happen when something goes wrong (I HATE wet roots...) and it makes me sit back more. Ironically, I know that's the wrong thing to do, but it takes a positive effort to get myself to move forward on the bike more...

I have been running the Vee tires Flow Snap Enduro, and find it gives me loads of confidence, just seems to have endless grip.

I'd say your tyre is too soft - go for about 24psi or slightly less if you're less than 80kg and try that.

Also your forks are probably too soft so make them firmer so you're not eating through the travel with no where left to go.

Confidence inspiring tyres.. no idea what ground type Gilburn is but if the maxxis isn't doing it for you try a michelin dh casing or their top enduro tyre on the front.

Check your bar angle is inline or close to inline with your forks (if not inline slightly forwards) and make sure your brake levers are at a comfortable neutral angle inline mainly with a straight wrist.

Go and session a section until you find your confidence and keep lapping it until you do.

Get into your head that if you put yourself on your bike as a passenger you'll have the reactions and lack of control as one.. if you get a neutral confident stance with heels dropped, eyes where you want to go and elbows proud and bent you'll be much better equipped with tackling the unexpected.

Time yourself on the same section not pedalling and then pedalling and surprise yourself how much smoother you were and faster / or the same time WITHOUT pedalling

Get some helpful mates..

I could be over the back, as I think I am holding back on the fear of losing the front and hoicking it over the bars.
The loss of confidence is down to the crashes and each time it’s because the front has washed out. I am very light on the front brake to try and mitigate it, where in the past I could steer into a bend feathering the brake.

Wet roots.. if you can't come into them square, go around them.. or if you see a safe place to land after them hop them.. if you cant do either, look for where they will take you and try to find a catch berm and aim there.

If you're not relaxed over roots letting the bike move under you then you'll probably have a sit down. If its going pete tong.. try and at least clear the worst with your front wheel and then go light when your back wheel is passing over them

I suffer the very same and am convinced now that I'm too far off the back.
Given I'm on a bike that totally outguns me I know that I'm the issue and that's what I think it is.

Going heavier on a front brake isn't what loses you tracting.. an overly aggressive braking force on an unsuitable patch is. On the section you loop go down it and have a look for suitable breaking points and only brake there.

If you're not good at picking the bike up - practise bunny hops.

Last post.. sorry for the spam.. but I just wanted to emphasis... my point on front suspension.. if its too soft you can't keep your weight neutral... if its harder it'll allow you to bring your weight back to a neutral position because you can interact with your suspension not just dive through it.

You'd be amazing the size of hits your front wheel can take when your forks are working correctly. If you're worried about going too hard - then add a click or 2 of rebound and a little more air.. you can always soften them back down once you've found a good spot.. but you learn nothing from soft / slow front forks.

Skills day!

I would say don’t worry one bit about your equipment. It’s technique combined with what is going on in your head. You are fearful, so therefore tense, so therefore going slow and stiff and crashing or being sketchy.  Take it back to the basics. Find a corner or steep to practice and do it over and over, focussing on looking far ahead, good weight distribution, choosing the right spot to brake (or not) and so on. Build up, regain confidence, send to the fullest!

Guys, thanks for the great posts. Pretty much everything you are suggesting makes sense.
I would say my Fork is soft, so I’ll put some wind in it.

Cheers!

One good thing to remember is get LOW instead of getting back. More stability and more arm and leg range to move the bike around.

All sounds very familiar to me. A denture will attest to the impact of going otb one too many times.

It's weird though, as the reaction to washing out the front is to pull your weight back. Which of course makes the bike harder to steer and makes you more likely to wash out the front due to it being unweighted.

In addition this causes problems through berms as instead of using your weight to drive the bike through the turn, you're actually creating a scenario whereby the back stays low and the front wheel rises up the berm, leading to you risking going over the top.

Basic principle that I was taught is that you want to have your chin in line with your stem, elbows bent, back straight and legs straight with dropped heels. When you hit the corner you're twisting your torso in direction of the exit point, slightly straightening your inner arm and bending your outer arm (which will lean the bike under you), all the time keeping your chin broadly above the stem. This technique keeps your weight forward enough to weight the front wheel and drive the bike through, as well as keeping your weight central on the bike and over the tyres to drive more grip. Loads of good youtube vids on this.

Anyway, that's the theory. I've found that sessioning bits of trail, whilst trying to put that advice into practice really helps.

And hit wet roots square on, or at least get the front wheel over them..

Sounds like your weight is not centred properly.

Have you messed around with stem length and stack height, it's an easy way to adjust your weight and body position on the bike.

Also I would try a different tyre, I don't think that will be the issue as it's a good tyre (I run one) but for me it's a dry conditions tyre, not wet.

As Molgrips says-Maybe your neutral bike positon isn't where it should be. I've recently got a bike that is much longer than anyhing I've ridden or owned before and suddenly I'm cornering much easier ( and seemingly just about everything else is better too) and faster without the usual constant fore/aft body movement - oversteer/understeer - loss of traction halfway round a corner on the front battle.

Ride within an inch of your natural ability.
Don’t compare yourself to others.

Have fun👍

How old are you?

You may have just worked out that it doesn't really matter how fast you ride a bicycle down a hill...

😉

Tyre type - sounds a bit old, worn
Tyre pressure - 18 psi sounds fine
Suspension settings?
Weight further forward?
Hips pointing?
Confidence?

All stuff to think about.

It sounds like the solution is to get some coaching. I was running a LLS bike and it was speeding me up to the point I ran out of talent. That resulted in 2 or 3 big crashes where the front wheel washed out when I wasn’t expecting that.

I had a coaching session and it got my weight further forward and riding more proactively / aggressively. Since the. I also got a slightly shorter reach bike and that helped even more.

So coaching rather than buying skills compensators. Although a 15 month old DHF might have lost its edges potentially. If it’s mostly trail centre and less roots / mud etc then I wouldn’t look at a shorty / Wild Enduro / Magic Mary - DHF or Assegai are probably the best options. If you do more muddy / natural stuff combined with trail centre then I reckon Magic Mary is a good compromise.

Possibly worth rolling your bars forward or dropping a spacer out from under the stem to naturally shift some weight to the front. And the rest above. Perhaps one at a time.

@cddsystems

I have days like this where I am an absolute squid, when I do I always got to a local spot I know with a couple of okay-ish berms in a row and just repeat, repeat and repeat till it feels good. Remembering to weight the front, drop shoulder, look where I wanna go. I end up doing this every couple of months.

I'd also add, I assume you are riding Gisburn trail centre (I've never ridden it) my local trail centre and other spots although its rained alot, the ground is still really hard and I've found quite slippery out there on my few rides this week.

Which parts of Guisburn?
Personally I'd say the DHF is ideal, I'd not run a MM out of choice on the smooth rocks.

I would say my Fork is soft, so I’ll put some wind in it.

You are WAY WAY overbiked except for maybe the DH line. (assuming you aren't doing that) and its going to dive/wallow unless its set firm or ridden hard putting your weight back.

I'd be very tempted to just find a nice short smooth descent where you don't need travel and session it with twinlock on climb and even firm up the forks and shock. Concentrate on keeping your weight on the front until it becomes/feels natural. Just set aside a bit of time to do it even if that means only doing 1/2 the loop. Just do lots of runs and concentrate on technique and doing better next run.

Which parts of Guisburn?

If it's the roots on the climb up to the top of Homebaked then I can fairly confidently say it's happened to most of us!

Skills coaching before dropping money on tyres. No problems with the tyres you've got on. They're all pretty good these days so it is not tyres. I got a bit of a confidence boost on front end grip and control following a skills course a few years ago and since then I've changed my whole riding style as my weight distribution on the bike has completely changed and that has brought huge benefits.

Get low, get strong. Strong hips, strong back, strong arms.

And book a skills day.

There'll be nothing wrong with your bike.

I say this as a perpetual kit-nerd and over-analyser, but as I've got older I'm smart enough to realise its more about me than the bike and even though I've been riding (and racing) for more than 20 years, still found it worthwhile doing a back to basics trails skills type course (I used A-line, plenty of others available) and commited to thinking more about me, than my bike in the future.

(Note - this mindset does absolutely not preclude one from getting all gooey-eyed at the prospect of a new tyre compound, dont worry).

Don't trust your front tyre? Swap MaxxTerra for MaxxGrip.

I am very light on the front brake to try and mitigate it, where in the past I could steer into a bend feathering the brake.

If you're not confident that you can stop, then you'll not be confident, full stop.

Training Day is a better spend than anything new & shiny.

Confidence will be lacking without sufficient feedback from the front end. As counter intuitive as it may seem, try raising tyre pressure significantly (maybe 5psi to start?) and also maybe increase the low speed damping or air pressure on the fork. What you lose in theoretical traction that a softer setup can bring, you could more than offset being able to feel what the front end is doing, which will inspire confidence, allowing you to push into the front end and subsequently gain more traction.

In terms of building up skills, get on some steep, wet and muddy tracks, preferably not too rooty to start, where even the best riders will be sliding around all over the place. When you fall (because you will) it's going to be at a slow-ish pace and probably on to your side, but I find this the safest way to get used to the bike sliding around underneath and you can learn to play with the limits of grip and purposely 2 wheel drift into a berm/feature that catches you. Consider the alternative of trying learn this limits of grip on a bone dry, flat-out, dusty track - death sentence!

Edit: in terms of doing all the correct posture things you're supposed to do: weight over the front, attack position, weight low, riding confidently etc. I've found there's 1 age-old tip that forces you to do all of the above and that's look further down the trail. When you're on a corner you should already be more or less looking at the next corner.

I got a new bike in June. Came with one of those rad 35mm stems that everyone raves about (except funnily enough lots of pros who choose to run 50mm stems (Joe Barnes and Jared Graves spring to mind), but what do they know). Anyway, found my front wheel skurfing about a bit so swapped to a wholly unfashionable 45mm stem and bingo! Just the right amount of weight now on the front and I'm whipping round corners much better.

You can defo feel a difference between a light front wheel not gripping and having too much weight on the front so that it loses grip. You're defo getting the light feel, yeah?

I struggle with being too far back too and having front end wash out, and as things get steeper rockier and more technical, the further back I go. In my case I think it's two root causes - firstly to avoid going over the bars and another log and expensive dental bill, and secondly, having switched from an older style 26er to a new 27.5 LLS style.

I'm by no means over it, but I've found that finding a local trail centre with some berms that's not steep and a section you can get away without braking on (a blue trail locally to me) and just lapping it, trying to stay off the brakes and concentrate on staying forward and railing through has really helped. When you find that sweepspot you really feel it, then when it starts getting sketchy, trying to remember that position and feeling gives something to focus on, as my brain can only think of 2 things at a time. Focusing on where you're going and body position helps push out the 'deck, I can see my face and that rock getting friendly' thoughts.

Also echo the coaching suggestions above. Sometimes, just having someone watching your riding and giving pointers not only helps your technique but it's amazing what a bit of praise about something you do well being told that you're not a complete chopper does to your confidence to try things.

I suffer with confidence a lot, and constantly have the fear of washing out.

I have nailed this down to a few things but one of which i think is my age, as i get older im becoming more risk averse, and in the back of my mind im always thinking "what if i get hurt here"

I managed to get a training day with Tony Doyle from UK Bike Skills, he made everything seem so simple, it was by far the best money i have ever spent in my whole time mountain biking, we covered so much in that day that i was a different rider when i left.

Im not saying i now do everything perfectly and im still gaining in confidence, the biggest difference now is that i can think back at what i have just done and know what i need to do to correct it.

Like in a berm - did i come round it with my outside foot down? did i have my weight neutral? Was i too far back? did i try and lean my body over rather than the bike itself.

Get some coaching, take your time and build up again slowly, it will come. and dont beat yourself up for not being as quick as you once were.

It sounds like you had been accepting crashing as a consequence of going fast.

You want to be working on your skills, line choice, braking points and technique etc. and let the speed come from that.

I would consider a bit of skills coaching and a lot of playing about on boring bits to get the confidence in those skills up.

I'm not going to criticize bike setup, as it's nearly never that that's the true cause, and you haven't changed it. And you should be using all your fork's travel occasionally, or you've got the wrong bike. I know far too many people that go and upgrade their bike every time they fall off. That's not to say it can't be improved, just I don't think it will be your main problem.

Thanks everyone some great tips there.
I plan to increase the fork pressure and remove a stem spacer.

Yeah, it’s after homebaked going back down to the fire road that takes you up to the up wet part of the 8.

Bike positioning seems to be key, I am going further back on the bike to over compensate I feel.
I am over thinking, and probably end up overusing the dropper post too. As when I think back, I was more confident in the olden days when I did not have a dropper. When I had my Big Hit.

Skills day seems to be a good option too.

I absolutely know this feeling. At the moment I have absolutely no confidence in my front tyre to grip on anything wet if I weight it (fine in the dry!), and it's sliding all over the place. I know the solution is to be more aggressive and not ride off the back, but I just know that if I do then the front tyre will slide and I'll end up on my face.

Do not like the Specialized Eliminator 2.6 for anything like wet roots, it just doesn't seem to have enough "edge" to grab on. Going to switch to a Hillbilly for the winter and see how that goes.

Probably not the tyre - I’m a bit the same. Last winter I felt I was improving on steeper / wet / tech but the last couple of night rides I’ve been hopeless!

Wednesday just gone I felt I was starting to slide out a little bit less - I’ve been actively trying to weight the lower pedal on off camber root bits to try and help the tyres find some grip, and when they slide, just trying to go with it. I’ve still got a long way to go but booked some coaching in December to help out. Hopefully by then I’ll have got back to where I was at the end of last winter so I can kick on with the coaching.

If the trails aren’t that rooty or sloppy then the DHF you’ve got is pretty decent. I’m running a Magic Mary 2.35 on the front at the moment rather than my summer DHF - I think it’s lost it’s edges a bit but I’ve also got a lightly used Hillbilly so might try that soon and see how they compare in back to back rides. I think the Hillbilly is less good on hardpack but better on slop.

You can't over-use a dropper post. Just raise it for climbing or on the flat when you want a sit-down, down the rest of the time.

It's never about grip, it's about balance. You can ride really slidey tyres as long as your front and back wheel slide in the right ratio - slightly more rear than front so you drift. If your front slips and your back doesn't - that's when there's an issue.