[Closed] From clips to flats, hints and tips...

I’d say the first thing to do is practice bunny hopping as this will make riding so much more enjoyable if you use clips previously because you could bunny hop.

Next practice dipping your heals to aid grip on pedals on steep or rough ground

Place your feet more central on the pedal (SPD shoes tend to have the cleats pretty far forward and drop your heels.

Ride it like you’re clipped in and don’t put your feet down.

Have fun

Be prepared to get bounced around on the flat pedals for a while, but you'll get used to it pretty quick. As above, dropping you heals becomes more important (but you probably know that already).

Are the V8s thin? I found that the cheaper pedals were difficult as they were often thicker than the good pedals. Something 17mm or less will make a good improvement.

You might find the V8's a bit thick and small, I mostly ride clips but have now started using flats a bit more. I found 5.10's with old DMR pedals to be a bad combination, it's not that they lack grip but rather the relatively small pedal that's quite tall didn't work with such a grippy sole

Shin pads/football pads for the first few rides when you think you still are clipped in and jump up and off the pedals, then down again, missing the pedals that absolutely rake your shins.

I shouldn't tempt fate but since buying 5.10's I haven't once hit my shin on the pedals, it's definitely nothing like 20 years ago when my shins would take a constant beating due to rubbish shoes and pedals. Now I only ever end up hitting my calves on the he pins when I'm pushing my bike somewhere.

Hah! Last week I took a right gouge out of my shin while pushing my bike backwards about 5 metres up a steep trail so I could get a better run at a feature. Got home with a sock soaked in blood!

I’m 5 weeks into this process after a couple of decades on clips and despite some misgivings on my first few rides I’m absolutely loving flats!

My top tips thus far:

1) get really grippy pedals, I have dmr vaults which are really grippy but will be going back for a bushing based warranty issue.

2) get really grippy shoes, I’m loving my Ride Concepts Hellion elites.

3) Heels down!

4) no really heels down…unless your jumping when it’s ok for the rear foot go toe down and both feet to push into the pedals, like picking up a glass without touching the outside.

5) this video got me bunny hopping:

I seem to “get” their techniques better than other youtubers.

6) go to the park and dick about, bounce around, bunny hop, try and pull wheels and manuals.

7) be hyperactive on the bike, try and not me a passenger.

8) dropper post down more, like pretty much all the time unless non tech climbs.

It depends how you ride on your spds tbh. The main things I found were around weighting/unweighting, bunny hops and jumps. Because there's a lot of people who can't bunny hop at all and just rely on the spds to do it, but just about everyone who's experienced on spds and not flats uses them to stay attached in the air, or when floating really rough stuff, it's what they're best at.

But equally flats people tend to assume that spds riders don't have good footwork, but you might well do, in which case the whole thing's much easier. That was me, for some reason, I'd never relied on the spds to keep my feet on the bike, I guess I just didn't like how that feels.

It's just potentially pretty frustrating to have to relearn basics or to find holes in your riding that you didn't know about. Even though I had a pretty easy time of it I still really didn't like that.

It’s just potentially pretty frustrating to have to relearn basics or to find holes in your riding that you didn’t know about. Even though I had a pretty easy time of it I still really didn’t like that.

Another way of looking at that is that it’s great for finding holes in your riding technique and fixing them. You just have to accept you’ll be a bit slower/less sendy in the meantime.

I probably won’t be going back to clips, a meniscus in my right knee that’s hanging on by a thread has probably put pay to my clip riding days, but even if I could I probably wouldn’t (gravel bike not included)

Riding on flats feels like skateboarding compared to clips feeling like snowboarding and I think I prefer skateboarding.

Cheers Gang!

Some good and some obvious stuff here.

I guess I never learned how to properly bunny hop without pulling on clips, hence want to force myself into learning curve.

I just guessed, my flats are V8, but they might be something different. Will need to dig them out, probably give them a bit of TLC and will see how they are going to play with 5-10s.

Will defo check recommended bunny hopping vid.

Thanks once again, keep'em coming more please.

Cheers!
I.

Just going through this at the moment myself, one thing I noticed was I had to change my saddle hight slightly.

BillOddie
Full Member

Another way of looking at that is that it’s great for finding holes in your riding technique and fixing them. You just have to accept you’ll be a bit slower/less sendy in the meantime.

Oh aye, agree with that- it was a positive thing overall but the short term was still frustrating.

One from Jedi, when I spent a day with him, arriving at his play park with impressive scars on the shin of my leading leg......

Rotate your brakes more level than pointing downwards - so at 3 o clock rather than 4 or 5 o clock. That means when you hit a bump your wrists go into extension rather than flexion and your weight goes down into the bike loading your pedals rather than over the front of your bike unweighting your pedals. Unloading your pedals is when your foot slips on a flat.

It was the single biggest change to my mtb riding and am still grateful years later.

Nothing more to add re: technique but when your storing your bike put some old socks over the pedals. Your shins and your family's shins will thank me.

Nothing more to add re: technique but when your storing your bike put some old socks over the pedals. Your shins and your family’s shins will thank me.

Not tried socks, but these are ace: https://singletrackmag.com/shop/nox-sox-pedal-covers/

I think the most important thing is to remember that its not black or white, you dont HAVE to be in one camp or the other.

I did this for years - strictly anti clips as a teenager, then a decade of 'thou must be clipped in for efficiency'.

However a few years ago I realised that both have their place, and regularly swap. Easy if you have multiple bikes, and even if just the one, a pedal swap is 2 minutes. I'll swap and change all my bikes depending on where and when I'm riding.

Keeps you fresh - definitely reccomend this approach.

Take your time, go steady, move your feet forward on the pedals and drop your heels!

For reference, i’m 15 years into riding just flats but 2 years ago picked up a set of clips for my hardtail - not for efficacy but for staying attached to the bike on the rough stuff. Swopping between the two isn’t a problem though do find riding thing blind changed my confidence and how much I would attack the trail

Agree on the swapping - I'll tend to use clips on local xc rides, but then swap to flats if I'm going into the peaks where I might need to put a foot down quickly

I found it a bit like giving up smoking. Had a couple of abortive attempts over the years. Finally went for it succesfully last spring. Lockdown helped. I'm 15 months in and although I thought I was converted at 6 months I'm still getting used to things now. I watched lots of stuff, including Ryan Leech's course, which may or may not have helped me. Agree with northwind that the process was quite unlpleasant but I'm glad I've finally done it. My tip is to prepare yourself for a bit of a stint.

I think the most important thing is to remember that its not black or white, you dont HAVE to be in one camp or the other.

Totally agree. There's been a vogue over the last 5-6 years that everyone should ride flats, and only those with no interest in improving their skills should persevere with SPDs. Obviously flats can be a good learning tool, but you don't have to ride flats if you prefer SPDs.

I've been loving riding my SPDs again recently.

I wanted to move flats for a while for riding steeper enduro trails and then had to because of a badly sprained knee playing football. I found the change pretty easy but I had been building up to it for a couple of years riding pumptracks on jump bikes and BMXs. So that would be my tip if you've got a pumptrack nearby. If not then a relatively easy trail with a nice up and down nature, like berm baby berm at Glentress which you can practice pumping on.

Most of it has already been well said here.
I'll add:
- Don't give up. Your first handful of rides might be awful. Stick with it for a while.
- For me, just as important as heels down, is to remember: light hands, heavy feet.
- Relax. Many people (been there as well) get so concerned about dropping heels etc that they stiff up a lot. Relax.
- Like others said, DMR V8s are not really bad per se, but more modern options will make a difference. If you don't want to break the bank there are great plastic alternatives like the Burgtec MK4 or the Oneup Composites. Those are relatively inexpensive but good enough for people to race EWS on them

The worst cuts I got were G-outs, down off a descent at speed then up a climb straight away, I must've used my SPD's to haul the pedals round before, I kept shooting my feet off the front of the pedals and before you know it the pedal is then buried in the back of your calf. That stings.

Stick with it +1

The worst cuts I got were G-outs, down off a descent at speed then up a climb straight away, I must’ve used my SPD’s to haul the pedals round before, I kept shooting my feet off the front of the pedals and before you know it the pedal is then buried in the back of your calf. That stings.

I’ve tried flats a few times but always give up for this reason. 30 years of muscle memory will not leave me.

Lol aye, it's not fun!.

Didn't last long tbh, you learn that lesson fairly quickly, been on flats for 7 years now.

Burgtec MK4 or the Oneup Composites.

Will see how I'll be going with what I have and then if poorly will swap for one of suggested.

Cheers!
I.

I found some of the Superstar plastic pedals on PX for less than a tenner, they're very good. Even the old versions second hand are likely better than the V8's. For me though, the shoes make more difference than the pedals.

I spent 20 years on SPDs, then moved to flat permanently 2 years ago, sounds obvious but the biggest thing is keeping your feet attached to the pedals, on SPDs you aren't focused on this so much, but it's all about how you keep the forces going to stop slipping off, on descents that bracing feel with the heel slightly down, on jumps where you press into the jump and extend with your body and so on.

Best bits to practice are always those bits that make you do those bracing style motions for me, so practicing manuals, endo's, etc work well, you don't have to manual just do the motion, it'll give you that heel down bracing feel, same with endo's, those will teach you the toe down scooping motion to get the back wheel up. Youtube has tons of this stuff though, but perseverance is the big thing, it's easy to quit due to a feel of it being less beneficial, but for me, doing more enduro stuff flats are just way better for me, the feel that i can stick a foot down on that tight, loose loamy descent or that on a steep chute i'm not attached to the bike, i can ditch it without it coming down with me in any type of fall or crash!

the big thing for me was my feet always "being in the wrong place". I got used to (on SPDs) that my feet were always in the same place every time I clipped in (obviously)  and on flats well, that's just not the case, and I used to spend quite a bit of time re-positioning my feet rather than just getting on with riding.

Went back to SPDs in the end, I don't know how people get over the fear of going into really steep stuff or technical stuff on flats, it really spooked me! It was effecting where I was going on the bike.

nickc

Went back to SPDs in the end, I don’t know how people get over the fear of going into really steep stuff or technical stuff on flats, it really spooked me! It was effecting where I was going on the bike.

Kind of the opposite for me. Having never tried SPDs, the thought of going down something steep or tech with my feet clipped to the pedals scares me to death!

the big thing for me was my feet always “being in the wrong place”.

That was definitely a big thing for me for at least a year of regularly riding flats for general riding, coming from SPDs. I truly hated that feeling (to the point of buying some less grippy shoes to help me slide my feet around) but over time I got used to it and I can't say it bothers me now.

I still prefer SPDs for tech stuff though. I feel way more connected and can be more precise with the back end.

Having never tried SPDs, the thought of going down something steep or tech with my feet clipped to the pedals scares me to death!

Haha, weird isn't it?  Like Superficial says, I can feel what the back of the bike is doing, I can weight it better, but it boils down to just the thought of heading down some steep chute with nothing to stop me feet sliding off the pedals... (I know that's not going to happen, but my unconscious brain isn't paying attention to anything I'm saying) No thank-you!

Yes, agree that, coming from SPDs, the feeling of having your feet on the wrong place is annoying. The grippier your shoe-pedal combo is the worst it gets.
But, like others say, with time you get over it. It took me well over an year to be 100% proficient with this.

Some advice that worked for me:
- put your dominant foot (your forward foot) first on the pedal. I know, sounds weird, but doing so seems to help getting the positioning right first try.
- don't think too much about it. Whenever I deliberately try to put my feet on the perfect place it seems to go wrong. When I just step on the pedals and go they king of instinctively go there.
- one curious thing is that with clipless pedals most of us accept that transitioning moment of stepping on the bike and clipping in, even doing a track stand to do so. But with flats we tend to want to just jump on the bike and GO. If with flats you allow yourself the same time for feet setup you did on SPDs, you'll see things get easier

Conversely, I just told myself to keep ploughing on and stop worrying about my foot position. When I would feel I wanted to move my foot, I had a word with myself and stopped myself from doing it. Eventually I got used to riding with ever-so-slightly wonky feet.