[Closed] Frames, we all obsess about this one and that one.....

While I know what you're saying is true, I'm going to keep arguing with my friends whether my very main stream brand bike is better than his very similar but differently coloured mainstream bike.

why do you keep buying so many then

I agree they will all be pretty good given the price we pay so I just buy one and keep it for about 5 years/till it breaks.

Dont see the point in serial swapping but dont see the point in criticising those who do

solid post that chap.
the other part of that i guess is that the more you ride the less arsed about your bike you are but if life gets in the way more time is spent pondering the finer points of a head angle

All these 26" wheeled, alloy framed, full suspension mountain bikes are broadly similar? Let me think about that.

I think in the early days of mountain biking there were good and bad bikes. Full sus came along and again there were good and bad bikes. Design is refined so much now there are minor differences as you say. I test rode a carbon bike and a ti bike today and they both felt broadly similar.

As long as you like it who gives a s*it?

JY +1. Seriously don't get your OP at all.

In the past I would have agreed with you but demoed quite a few bikes this year and I was struck by just how different they all felt.

It's quite difficult these days to buy a truly bad premium frame. It's inevitable that things will become a little homogeneous over time, but I would disagree that all frames feel similar to some extent, I've two full suss bikes (three if you count the one I've just retired) and despite them all being described as Four Bar layouts (two of them have Horst links), they all have very distinct (to me) characteristics.

[i]As long as you like it who gives a s*it?[/i]

Absolutely spot on.

I can't get over how people go on about a certain make thats often cited on here, & that it rides like nothing else. Why's that? has someone suddenly invented some new frame angles that no-one's ever tried, or some new type of Reynolds xxx thats never been used before? Or a magical combo of both? Ok, there might be some wrong uns kicking about but in general, there's not a lot in it. I've never actually ridden a bike & thought, 'this is crap' (apart from one of those Girvin things from 1990 odd).
Some bikes suit some folk, some don't.

I don't really know what the point of this post is, other than we are all far far too anal about bikes and the tiny differences when they are all prett much the same...

When you're going around a corner as fast as you can, that tiny difference could be the difference between making it and crashing. Not such a tiny difference now is it?

nah that would be down to having the correct tyre for the terrain and the correct psi ...technique would of course be unimportant in this equation just technology.

Placebo effect innit 🙂

Hora to the thread please. Pretty sure he agrees with the OP.

I get you, but I ride 26" wheeled alloy XC hardtails. In a blind test I probably couldn't tell the difference between a Brand X and a Yeti.

It would be interesting to see if people thought a £1500 Ritte road frame felt any different to a £399 Hong Kong import. When you consider a 1.5K Ritte is a painted up El Cheapo from Hong Kong.

Just get out and ride and stop polishing your overpriced garden gates!

that's why I make sure my bikes are all very different from each other. If it gets to the point where I end up with a load of bikes all with similar rides, I sell some and get some freaky in my life. That way it always keeps it fresh and exciting on every ride. 😀

will swear its the best bike on the planet, but I'll bet that it'll ride handle and climb within a hairs breadth of the others I've had, save for minuscule differences, and I wouldn't be able to say ones clearly better than the other

I was expecting this with the Yelli Screamy, however it was basically the same as my XTC29er. Obviously something like my previous Bionicon was very diferrent, but a generic XC 29er is mostly a generic XC29er and feels the same.

Hence why i've now had my bike for over a year.

Main reason I have two bikes, one hardtail and t'other full sus.
Do tend to ride the hardtail more, so the full sus is more of a T.S.B.
Only tend to use it when the hardtail is in need of repair, out for a bimble with the girlfriend or fitness is slipping and I need something bit heavier for a workout on the climbs.
But main reason I kept these two was that they are totally different.
If I had to keep two hardtails then one carbon and one cheapish Alu would do the same as my presant setup.

In a blind test I probably couldn't tell the difference between a Brand X and a Yeti.

I'm not quite sure how this would work, but it would be fun to see the results. STW Towers?

What a load of old sh*te !! The opening comment is like saying every dish in a 5 star restaurant is the same because theyre all realy good !!
You suk sir that is the problem !! Why buy a hugely expensive nicolai if they are all so similar !?
muppet

I don't really know what the point of this post is, other than we are all far far too anal about bikes and the tiny differences when they are all prett(y) much the same...

Yeah, I'm the same with buses. After a while you realise that even though the numbers on the front are different, inside they're all prett the same. Yet I still get different ones.

And wine. It all taste prett much the same.

Yeah cr*p

clearly a case of what my old man used to call `all the gear and no idea!!
If you open a dictionary and look up the word cretin a small notation would point you towards the OP me thinks!!

Is that right next to the big picture of you as the archetype? 🙄

the incredible difference between my 2007 trance and 2012 ASR5 still baffles me

Interesting topic and as a roadie recently into mountain bikes I'm also interested in whether all this stuff that magazines and internet fora obsess about actually matter.

The analogies with fine wine and food don't really hold. Whether you enjoy a wine of not depends mainly on the wine. You might be influenced a bit by your surroundings at the time, but it's mainly the wine that matters. With a bike the opposite is true. The bike is actually quite a small part of whether you enjoy a bike ride or not. The trail, weather, company etc can all be equally important. So it's much less clear whether small differences in the feel of the ride matter.

I'm currently riding a 2012 Trance with modern Maestro suspension, but was interested enough in this question to pick up an old (2006) Orange 5 frame, which I'll build up for a bit of fun. I don't need two trail bikes and one (or maybe both) will go at the end of the test, but I'll be interested to see whether I can actually feel a difference between the modern multi link and the older single pivot bike and more importantly, whether I care about those differences.

Cheers,

Andy

OP - Why are you buying a new one then if they're all the same? Genuinely puzzled.

I'll be interested to see whether I can actually feel a difference between the modern multi link and the older single pivot bike

The suspension will feel a bit different, but it's different geometry that most people on here change their frames for - and which makes the most difference to how a bike rides.

I'm so rubbish at biking that I don't warrant a new frame. I'd dent and scratch the poor thing even if I did buy one. I'll keep my cindercone frame and ride it until it snaps. At least then I might be at a level where I would notice the difference between mine and a new one.

so you mean that if I go out and buy a Soul I won't suddenly be able to do everything I can't do at the moment?

Looks like I should keep saving for a skills course then so I can ride what I do have better and try and use it to some degree of it's full potential 😉 😀

PS I do want to try a soul - they look lovely 😳

Not sure I agree with the Op

My Argon road frame doesn't ride anywhere near as nicely as my Storck. Yes, there's a fair difference in price but they're both road frames and both made from Carbon. I've also two alloy framed road bikes, one which was the worst thing I've ever ridden comfort wise and the other is one of the most comfortable bikes I've ever been on. Both built with the same kit so it was only the frames that would affect the ride.

I've had a Turner 5 spot and a Yeti ASR-7. I've now got a Five and I much prefer it to both the others. On paper the Turner and the Five are very similar but ride completely differently. The turner felt 'dead' and made riding boring, the Five is ace and feels much more fun.

That said, the Five felt like a different bike when I went from an air shock to a coil. Tyres and wheels also make a massive difference, not just the frame.

My SB66 is the best bike in the world & that is a fact.

I like the OP's conclusion. Ride for the sake of riding and worry about product less.

Don't quite agree that it makes 'little difference' tho. Some of us are more sensitive to handling / set-up than others. Some need to feel 'right' on a bike to ride well, others seem to ride anything fast. I'm fussy, don't need to be, just am. But I'd rather ride something shonky than not ride at all ) I also think we adapt to different bikes more than most people think they can - riding habits and 'getting used to' bikes means people say they need a set top tube length etc, that always seems odd to me.

But yeah, most of us should worry about it less, but if thinking these things through is a reflection of wanting a 'perfect' ride, that's no bad thing.

Replaced a broken hardtail swapped the parts to another supposedly very similar frame and it's not right. Does everything well enough but I don't feel right on it, capable but not comfortable, gets me up/down stuff but always feel slightly less in control than my old frame.

Swapped FS frames, single pivot to four bar, new frame is longer but I fannied around with the cockpit til they felt similar. New one is ok, getting quite into it, haven't noticed any faults or it slowing me down, will probably like it as much as the old one eventually.

Frames differ, it IS noticeable, how much that matters in the real world is debatable but as most of us here aren't pros riding on the ragged edge how something [b]feels[/b] and how much of a smile it puts on your face is equally (if not more) important than how technically "good" a frame is.

It's not just the frame though. But when I first got my Sov, it scared me witless as I could not get used to how fast it turned-in and kicked around.

Then I adjusted the drop outs to extend the chainstays to maximum length and it started riding more like a trail bike (thankfully). So that is evidence that frame geometry is vitally important.

Every single component will make a difference, whether you'll feel it or not is another matter.

If something is slightly out of line, loose or needs greasing I'll feel it, that's before we get onto the suspension and relative merits of frame and linkage design, not willy waving but I'm just finiky/sensitive (insert lolcat looking sad) 😉

EDIT: yes! 3 rd second page this week 😀

While I agree that most bikes are good, I definitely find a very different character between bikes.

Does it matter? It does to me.

If I had no choice, would I still ride any of them? Yes.

Definatly, there are very few [i]bad[/i] bikes anymore just different ones, I'm happy to ride pretty much anything as long as it's the right size (gate) although I'm yet to find/ride anything I like more than the Ibis Mojo HD I was lent a couple of months ago. 😀

The industry is here to make you buy stuff, so they make money after all, so that sneaking feeling that you current frame isn't quite perfect is all good for them 😉

clearly a case of what my old man used to call `all the gear and no idea!!
If you open a dictionary and look up the word cretin a small notation would point you towards the OP me thinks!!

I'll see your cretin (or muppet) and raise you you're a complete ****....
As for all the gear no idea, been riding bikes for 35 years, and I'll wager you don't really know what you're taking about, plus anyone who has read your two contributions to this thread just agrees you sound like a tit.

If you want to call this and that, my emails in profile....

Btw, anyone want to swap a Nicolai for a Durance...

😀 😉

+1 What LoCo said...

Every single component will make a difference, whether you'll feel it or not is another matter.

The feel of a bike is a combination of the parts spec, geometry, tyre choice/pressure, wheel size ( 😉 ), suspension set-up, riding style, trail conditions etc. Frame choice is only one part of this combination of factors, but it's a pretty major one in my opinion.

If it makes you happy and you enjoy riding your chosen frame, then thats all good as far as i'm concerned. And a change is sometimes good for motivation and variety so no problem with the serial frame swappers, they keep the industry alive.

Je-bus muddyman, you're one rude member,
And only re-gis-tered since last November.

Hoorah for the OP! See people on here endlessly examining which component to fit with the same intensity as Ron Dennis on a work day.

Some here may be real racers, the other 99.9% (which I'm in) buy toy bikes to rattle round the hills and act like a 12 yr old. The way some people worry about tyres, travel, geometry, you'd think they're prepping for world championship extreme enduro - and the MONEY being spent.

If those who do, didn't keep bunging out multiple thousands for the marketing guff and snake oil of your silly toys we wouldn't all be risking getting held up at knifepoint for something that MAY be worth the risk!

Ahhhhhh... So much better. 😆

Ah klumpy, we depend on folks buying high-end guff to benefit from technology trickle-down to our level!

You're just full of yourself because your bargain new wheels turned out nice 😉

See people on here endlessly examining which component to fit with the same intensity as Ron Dennis on a work day.

wish I could have his workshop 😀

You're just full of yourself because your bargain new wheels turned out nice

(Plus 30 six speed chains, 12 eight speed cassettes, 3 fixie wheels, 4 180mm rotors, 5 v-brake ready rigid forks, 2 shock pumps...) 😆

muddyman seems nice.

He browses CRC all day every day

Not true! I spend half my time on here 😛

It's true I have two shock pumps. They came with after-market forks. [shoots self in foot - ow!]

Every single component will make a difference, whether you'll feel it or not is another matter.

If something is slightly out of line, loose or needs greasing I'll feel it, that's before we get onto the suspension and relative merits of frame and linkage design, not willy waving but I'm just finiky/sensitive (insert lolcat looking sad)

Really,Or perhaps you just ride very stiff legged with locked/tensed arms so feel every jolt through the bike,try riding rigid for a few months & get some suppleness to your joints.......... 8)

😆 yep clenched deathgrip all the time, wouldn't be much good at my job if didn't have a bit of 'feel' 😉

The difference in geometry from my old frame to my current one equate to the same thing as a few tweaks of the saddle and a change in stem. i.e. practically nothing. It is lighter and feels a bit stiffer / more responsive maybe but I bet if you blind tested the two frames very few could pick the difference.

The cost difference if bought new: the old one was available at £550 full bike the current was £750 frame only (I bought it s/h full bike for £700).

Full sus would be very different though I would imagine.

loddrik - Member

But at the end of the day there really isn't that much difference to the way they ride, handle, climb etc. the differences are all subtle though we all go on like they are huge differences.

Just don't agree in the slightest, tbh. For one thing, the difference between 2 frames can be pretty substantial, even between 2 that are ostensibly in the same ballpark. If you compare, say, a Mojo HD with my Hemlock, one climbs like a monkey, jumps well, but is a much less stable. The other climbs OK, jumps OK, but descends like a little DH bike (actually is slacker and lower than my old DH bike). Geometry and suspension type do make a massive difference, it's not subtle at all.

Even changing a frame significantly- for instance, slacking off a frame with a headset- isn't a subtle difference, and that's with every other component remaining exactly the same.

Whether you care about the difference is another thing, and it's fine to not care tbh.

vorlich - Member
muddyman seems nice.

😆

Was just thinking he seems like a thoroughly pleasant all round chap myself.

I love my Intense 5.5. I hated my Tracer (same components swapped from the 5.5) and couldn't deal with its odd handling.

All I can say is the testing that singled out the ASR5 from the 8 others I tested has nothing to do with technology, I just preferred it/the ride/feel.

I reckon I'm faster on it too, but that could be a lot to do with confidence on the bike... .. or perhaps my tire pressures are higher...

Edit: I'd love to do another Jedi session soon. Last time was on the Tracer I'd be interested on Jedi's feeback with the Yeti underneath.

The ASR5 is a great bike amongst it's peers, i'd also agree with that.

vorlich - Member
muddyman seems nice.

Was just thinking he seems like a thoroughly pleasant all round chap myself.

He's off my Christmas card list now. That'll teach him 😉

Paceman - Member
The ASR5 is a great bike amongst it's peers, i'd also agree with that.

There was a comment on a thread the other day whereby a poster said he'd never ride it beciase it was basically single pivot.

I don't understand that type of blinkers myself.

I'm not quite sure how this would work, but it would be fun to see the results. STW Towers?

STW sort of already did this - Ti Charge Duster vs steel Duster.

I think the conclusion was that the lighter Ti bike felt a little better, but maybe not enough to justify the price difference. Though if you were to keep said bike for a long time because you liked it, then perhaps the benefit is worth the extra initial outlay.

Hats off to Charge for having the balls to offer the bikes up though (I assume they were involved...) as I doubt many advertisers would be racing to the start line for a blind taste test.

You can have the best componentry/frame and forks in the world but if it isnt set up right ,you may as well ride a 99 quid special ....and it does happen

While I agree that most bikes are good, I definitely find a very different character between bikes.

This. In full sus Ive had URT, Horst link 4-bar, 'faux bar', I-drive, VPP and standard single pivot. All have ridden completely differently with the URT and VPP (Mk 1 Nomad) being the worst. The Nomad was the biggest disappointment; I had coveted them since first seeing one in Les Gets, and when I finally got one it climbed like a dog with a broken back in the granny ring. Which oddly no reviewer had ever commented on. Sold it in short order to be replaced by an archaic single pivot built out of recycled filing cabinets which is a far better bike.

Even amongst hardtails, geometry makes a noticeable difference (head angle, top tube length and chain stay length all having a big impact on how a frame reacts and performs).

buzz-lightyear - Member
Je-bus muddyman, you're one rude member,
And only re-gis-tered since last November.

A rhyming reply, I like that idea
Perhaps the best one, could win some free beer!