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Just behind the middle ring. Snapped clean through. Steel frame.
Is it likely to be repairable?
Yes
Is it an On One? If so, i think Brant pays you to have it repaired.
Not your El Mar I hope.
Yes, the El Mar! I'm absolutely inconsolable as that's the only bike I've ever really properly become attached to, it's such a wonderful thing.
I was on a bit of trail that's slow, rocky with a topping of turf, goes up and down a bit. Pedalled, heard a bang, thought I'd broken a spoke. Took me a minute or two to realise what'd happened.
As it happened, my wife had left her phone at home that day so I couldn't call a rescue in. She was due home before too long but as it happened, I'd brought her phone with me in case the school called due to snow. So I had to walk. I was on a tiny little road that's pretty difficult, and I assumed that the chance of meeting a car was virtually nil however within about ten minutes a van came past. Thumb out, he stopped, turned out he was an MTBer too. He brought me all the way home!
The frame's already a warranty replacement, but I'm still inside the warranty period of the original one, so here's hoping they don't deny my claim by blaming it on chainsuck. Even if they do agree a replacement they don't currently make anything similar. The Fargo is the closest but I'd need new drop bars and appropriate levers/shifters from what I can tell.
Trawl through http://www.bespoked.cc/2019-a-c.html and find someone near to you. It's doable, just gonna be a balance of cost V new.
@Molgrips gutted for you.
Nearest I have seen recently is Brother cycles Big Bro.
Hope it can get sorted for you.
Yeah, I can't really afford a new frame. Plus, that bike has a 135 rear and no boost or anything.
Thats rotten luck. Interested if you have it repaired as I have a Sherpa with a cracked chainstay I may get repaired.
Talking of which a Sherpa is an option and they are on offer at the moment.
Try Argos Racing Cycles in Bristol, they specialise in steel frame repairs.
2 options - fast and dirty - local welder to weld it up and either sleeve it or reinforce with something inside it or the proper method - get a frame builder to replace the entire tube
Bin it, if they don't replace. If it's failed inside a warranty period, I wouldn't be chucking any more money at it.
That's the other question - is it going to fail again? It's not like it's had abuse, the only thing they could complain about is having had a spot of chainsuck a few times, but that shouldn't wreck a steel frame. But there's no cash to replace it.
Get a new tube put in
Tbf
I have done them lately by welding a shaped plate over it and silver soldering the open end of the gusset ...most folks are like yep holding up
Fingers crossed warranty comes good, but if not shoud be able to find a local framebuilder to fit a new chainstay. Id not get a local welder to bodge it myself as the Mariachi isnt made anymore so hard to replace.
get a surly as a replacement. far far too thick walled steel to snap.
a good welder will fettle that no problem.
Bin it, if they don’t replace. If it’s failed TWICE
inside a warranty period, I wouldn’t be chucking any more money at it.
Anyone had this done and able to give an idea of cost?
http://argoscycles.com/resprays-refurb/price-lists/
Looks like £120 at Argos cycles to replace a chainstay and chainstay bridge.
Reynolds 725 tubing used - but other more expensive options available.
Aye, well observed Scotroutes! 🙂
If one has snapped twice what is the other one like? As above^^^ get a full replacement or bin the thing, and don't buy another, however much you like it; you cannot rely on it. Not a good advert for them.
The first one bent during a big ring/big sprocket/too short chain incident. They replaced the frame, and gave me a new fork too because the old one was the wrong colour to match the new frame. I told them about the too short chain so they could have refused a replacement but they didn't, they felt that the frame should not have bent regardless. They were extremely generous and that give me a very positive impression of the company.
They may have designed this particular bike a bit on the light side but I'm prepared to forgive them. If all their bikes snap though, that's another issue. But I can't fault their commitment to their customers.
What was the previous warranty claim for?
Plus the bike was beyond awesome for what I needed it for. There's no other bike I'd want over this one TBH.
Looks like £120 at Argos cycles to replace a chainstay and chainstay bridge.
Plus painting?
Unless the frame is worth a lot (to you) I'd try to find the "bodge" repair mentioned above that is likely to be perfectly serviceable (had it done myself) if you have the clearance.
The first one bent during a big ring/big sprocket/too short chain incident. They replaced the frame, and gave me a new fork too because the old one was the wrong colour to match the new frame. I told them about the too short chain so they could have refused a replacement but they didn’t, they felt that the frame should not have bent regardless.
Interesting, did you rip the hanger off? How was the stay too short?
I really feel for you Molgrips. There aren't many options with that sort of geometry now but it does work for certain riders/types of riding.
I would be in a similar dilemma if anything like that happened to my KM Ops.
Hope you get a positive outcome.
How was the stay too short?
The chain was too short? I'd never expect that to bend a frame but then I obviously don't put out the power that molgrips does.
Interesting, did you rip the hanger off? How was the stay too short?
The chain was too short. It jammed, under middling load, I wasn't hammering, and it pulled the rear wheel sideways about an inch.
Flippin 'eck. Took it apart for some pics and the chainsuck damage is WAY worse than I thought. I don't think I can summon up the cheek to ask Salsa for a new one, it's trashed. The gouge top right is really deep. Genuinely no idea how it got that bad - it's not like chainsuck has been a recurring problem on this bike. I've had recurring problems before and not had anywhere near this kind of damage. Maybe because of the tyre clearance there's less room for the chain when it does get sucked.
I think I need to go 1x.
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Doesnt look too bad 😉
As said Stanton Sherpas are on offer at the moment.
@ Molgrips
If you don't ask...
Repair is the cheapest and best option I reckon.
Anyone got any tips for chainsuck protection?
@ Molgrips
If you don’t ask…
Yeah but.. I'd be taking the piss wouldn't I. Plus it's not like they still make them so how would they replace it?
I guess so, but maybe they can recommend a repair company? I would still discuss it with them. But that is just me.
Anyone got any tips for chainsuck protection?
I'd be looking at prevention first. Is it something to do with the soil type in your area that it happens so much?
A bit of inner tube wrapped around the chain stay (the way you'd wrap handkebars) will offer some protection and is easily/cheaply replaced.
Flippin’ heck! Those of you on here who don’t know the bike, molgrips’ Salsa El Mariachi is/was beautiful! Gorgeous colour, interesting geometry... the sort of bike that, if I could only have one bike ever, I myself would have wanted.
I’m gutted for you, mol.
@Molgrips. If you get it repaired then you could have something like this done to give more chain/tyre clearance.
Chainsuck prevention; stop chain getting hooked up on chainring, so clutch mech best option, keep chain clean or replace chain before too worn and wears drivetrain, replace drivetrwin before too worn. Use chainrings that dont wear too quickly (eg FSA).
Lessen impact; check spacing between chain rings and chainstay so if does happen chain doesnt get so jammed. Protect chainstay with something tough.
Tbh since going to 10 speed clutch mechs I havent experienced it at all.
I’m gutted for you, mol.
Appreciated - and yes, if I could only have one bike that'd be it. If I won the lottery, I'd keep it and just upgrade the components.
Is it something to do with the soil type in your area that it happens so much?
Yeah, there's lots of sandstone so you get thin gritty mud when it's wet enough. Of course I do take precautions, and it hasn't happened a lot - just a few times. But apparently it was enough. I used to have regular issues on other bikes and never had any negative effects.
Can we have pics of a bit more. ?
I'm stunned at that... I'm not sure i could damage one that much with an angle grinder !
Anyone got any tips for chainsuck protection
Get yourself an anti chainsuck plate.
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Bad luck. Fwiw I enquired with Argos about getting a replacement chainstay on a 635 p7. They wanted to do both sides, and by the time you'd added paint it really wasn't worth it.
It sounds a nice frame, hard to replace and well loved so no brainer to get it repaired.
Is it the swinger dropout frame? That looks like a pretty easy repair to do (hacksaw off the old stay, file off the remains at bb and dropout then braze in a new one). The stay itself is only £15-20. If you were nearer I would have happily helped out for a box of beer (you are South Wales ish?). Unfortunately I'm wrong end of England.
I've done a double stay with twin half inch tubes which gains clearance without crimping but doubt you'd convince someone else to build that 🙂
Edit:
My Ironworks twin stay thing here
https://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/missed-bespoked-bristol-heres-the-report/
Anyone got any tips for chainsuck protection?
1x mate.
You can always ask the manufacturer, they can only tell you no.
You could send argos pictures for an estimate.
If I was on a budget I would measure the chainstay and see if Ceeway or similar have a chainstay close. You could then cut out the existing chainstay and profile the new chainstay to fit, you could take it to any weld/fab place with an old hub and get them to weld it up. Getting a frame builder to do it in a jig would be better.
Where are you based?
Personally I would TIG weld it, or get my old man to braze it.
Is it the swinger dropout frame?
Yep.
I've contacted Charlie to see what he says but he's out of the country for a while. Also, Argos didn't answer their phone all day so I'm having to cool my heels a bit 🙂
If you were nearer I would have happily helped out for a box of beer
Appreciated. Since you seem to know what you are talking about, how feasible and/or beneficial is the plate type arrangement in the picture on the previous page?
1x mate.
Yeah, well that's another few hundred quid that I am even further from having now I have to get the frame fixed. I don't run really old 3x9 as a fashion statement!
If I was on a budget
Yeah I need it done right if I'm going to do it. £120 from Argos I can swallow, just about. I'll attempt most things but not this job.
Chainstay plate / yoke is generally to give more clearance for tyre and chainring rather than to shrug off chain suck as such (but I guess it will survive better than a thin tube). There aren't many ready-made plates on the market - I've not seen any at Ceeway / Paragon / Frame supply, so tends to be a Taiwan factory thing or builders have their own made (laser cut, CNC etc). They also make the job generally more of a faff and another thing to align and mitre so will be more expensive if you can find someone willing to do one as a repair.
I tried hand making my own plate yoke last year but it was a bit "soft" so I junked it - stumbled on this last week which was a much nicer production version of my failed hand cut attempt
. Plates need to be a decent steel so it flexes and springs back - mild steel in those dimensions just flexes and yields....
I've spent 18 years singlespeed or 1x so actually forgot that chainsuck was a thing! If there is space, could just silver solder a sacrificial 1mm stainless plate on top of a new chainstay so you aren't putting fatigue initiating gouges in the main tube (fatigue is my day job and that is how that tube failed).
See how you get on with Charlie and Argos. I guess you are looking at rattle-can rather than an additional £160 for Argos paint. Other option is £30-£40 would get it powder coated but appreciate you might want to keep as much Salsa paint and stickers as possible.
PM me if you are struggling - I think you helped with the Gnusmas stuff so would be nice if the forum could return a favour. I've not got any stays at the moment but probably need to order a few other bits from Ceeway anyway.
fatigue initiating gouges in the main tube (fatigue is my day job and that is how that tube failed).
So, no point in putting in a warranty claim then?
If you get really stuck and on a budget I’m not far from you (Pontypool) and can tig weld. I’m not a builder to Mick.r’s standard though; I would clean the area up, tube inside and plug weld then weld up the crack and build the gouged area back up with weld, sand back and leave you to paint.
Being honest if I were you I’d go to Argos for a proper job if the frame means that much to you.
Thanks mate.
2 frames under warranty? I'd be saying seeyah and looking at a diff manufacturer.
Why does there need to be an associated cost for 1X other than £13 for a chainring? I've only dropped a chain once in several thousand miles on my HT with nothing other than a narrow wide fitted.
molgrips , what size frame? I have a 2012 Frame and forks sat doing nothing.
Tbh i was thinking looks like that 🙂
If it’s in warranty I’d see what they can do, could even be a batch they’ve had issues with.
Find a motorsports shop or small machinest locally who can TIG, get em to plug n' weld it up. Job done. Sure it'll be a few grams heavier but hey so what!
Why does there need to be an associated cost for 1X other than £13 for a chainring?
Cos 1x9 isn't enough range.
molgrips , what size frame? I have a 2012 Frame and forks sat doing nothing.
What frame? An El Mar? Mine was large but I could go medium.
What frame? An El Mar? Mine was large but I could go medium.
Yes an El Mariachi in medium .
How old? How much? Tempting but like I say I don't think I could bring myself to bin the current one.
You wouldn't bin it, just gives time for a more leisurely repair 🙂
If I loved a frame as much as you love that one Molgrips, I'd be repairing it. Shirley a decent framebuilder could take off the chainstay without damaging the BB shell/rear dropout & even braze a new one in?
My old HT has had this done without any issues. (although It's all fillet brazed, not welded)
That's the plan EG, Argos cycles said they could. Current plan is to have them replace the stay and strip the frame, and paint it myself using spray.bike.
Only thing I am now worried about is what colour to go for. I could try and re-create the same colour, and they have sparkles to apply on top - or I could try something new.
I rather like the stone colour of the Big Brother linked to earlier in the thread. Would look great with my raw carbon fork.
Update
Finally took the frame into Argos a couple of weeks ago, it's now ready! Gonna try and pick it up today.
Given the horror stories of El Mars cracking at the crimps I had both stays done. They were confident there'd still be the same.tyre clearance, let's see.
I think the original paint is a candy colour? Or whatever the non american version of that is. My "golden child" el mariachi was IIRC orange paint with a brown clearcoat and golden flecks. You could probably match the colour so it looks the same from a distance but to get the same finish is a bit more involved, if youve not already stripped it then a car spraying shop might be able to match the process if they can see what was there before?
Finally took the frame into Argos a couple of weeks ago, it’s now ready! Gonna try and pick it up today.
Keen to see photos!
Fingers crossed it's just what you wanted! Any plans for chainsuck protection? If I'd seen this first time round, I'd have suggested getting bosses put in for a plate like Dekerf do/did:
Didn't know you could get ones like Steve T's at the top, though.
enjoy it.
where do I get an chainstay/suck plate from?
where do I get an chainstay/suck plate from?
Make one! #mantask
I think the original paint is a candy colour?
Re paint, it was a sort of cherry red, I had assumed with metallic flakes like a car. But on closer inspection, it's not - the base coat is sort of crinkly. I showed it to Argos, and they pointed me to their rack of sample colours, and they do basically the exact same finish in the same colour. It's a process of many steps, and is another £200 or so.
However, some say Argos painted finishes aren't durable, and if it was the same as the original finish that would make sense because it wasn't that durable. See the other 'Is this a crack?' thread I started. The paint had rubbed through slightly on the cable boss and started corrosion tracks under the paint.
Since I want the frame to last I am going to powder coat it. First I'll try spray.bike and if that turns out shite I'll get it powder coated later. I've gone for dark red + lacquer which won't be anywhere near as nice as the original but it'll do.
Any plans for chainsuck protection?
I thought about soldering a plate over the outside of the tube, then I wondered how hard it would be to remove it if it was damaged - and where do I get stainless sheet from? I have some thin alu sheet so I think I will cut a little piece of that like a frame protection sticker and use some number plate fixing tape to stick it on. If it gets mashed I'll remove and repeat.
Can you make it out of tough plastic? The kind of stuff a bash guard is made of?
I should image that tough plastic would work fine.
Yeah it would - harder to shape though, would need heat.
Taxi25's link is another option. I think at one point in the past I had one though - if you set it close enough to actually keep the chain out it rubbed - wasn't ideal.
Got it back. May have lost a the size in clearance and will probably have to run the dropouts at their furthest back, but it looks like it's definitely not going to break again! Lovely job!
Yeah about 4mm gone from each side on the maximum extended dropout position; more when the dropouts are further in. There's still about 7mm gap with a 2.3" Racing Ralph on my 25mm rims which isn't too bad. 2.4s would be a squeeze tho.
First I’ll try spray.bike and if that turns out shite I’ll get it powder coated later.
I would seriously consider not trying it in the first place. Super easy to apply and gives nice coverage but had next to no resistance to chips etc, even lacquered.
So what's the alternative? For £30? Already spent £240 I didn't have.
Frame is shotblasted, I've got primer, paint and lacquer. If it's ever going to work it'll be now.
Maybe go straight to powder coat. Give these people a ring their only a few miles from you.
https://www.castlecoatingswales.co.uk/
I had a kids balance bike powder coated recently and it was £65 including stripping. I’d have spent quite a bit of time stripping it myself manually - and paint / laquer would probably have cost £30 in spray cans. Thought I’d just go for the powdercoating and really glad I did - looks great!
The benefit of doing it yourself is you have left over paint so you can touch it up when ever you want.
There have been some great examples on here of painting your own bike.