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I need a fork for my bike. Does anyone have any thoughts on the 38 vs the Zeb?
You can buy two Zebs for the price of one 38, which pretty much settles the argument for me.
Having ridden neither, I'd say it's akin to Lyrik Vs 36 where there is no real performance difference, but there is a price difference.
Any reason it's between those two only? How about the EXT Era?
Or the Manitou Mezzer pro?
Don't get me started in the Mezzer. My advice would be don't buy a fork if you can't buy something as simple as a seal kit.
I'm also thinking about this. By all accounts they perform equally as well as each other and you would not be able to tell the difference. The zeb is cheaper and lighter. However the fox has the desire factor.
I'm waiting until next bike park season to decide, May next year. I have heard of some creaking csu on zebs . Plus Öhlins will have released their 38mm fork by then
Don’t get me started in the Mezzer. My advice would be don’t buy a fork if you can’t buy something as simple as a seal kit.
Like this seal kit?
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/manitou-mezzer-pro-comp-servicekit-932088
Nine to be had in the UK and getting them from Europe will be noticeably more difficult next year. Hotlines are not great at carrying spares for Manitou and already, they have revised the lowers twice but Hotlines refuse to acknowledge there is an issue.
I really wanted a Mezzer, I just didn't want Hotlines pulling my pants down and leaving me with a fork in pieces for months on end.
Far enough, good to know actually as I'm looking at buying some Mezzer Pro's over winter.
Aren't there already creaking 38s?
Also, for me it's simple, anytime you have two products performing close enough that you end up with countless inconclusive "Vs" articles, I'll go with the cheapest one. Even easier with such a big difference in this case.
Not to mention that RS spares are both cheaper and way easier to find
howsyourdad1
I have heard of some creaking csu on zebs
Reviews of the 38 (Enduro mag for one) had plenty complaints about creaks
https://enduro-mtb.com/en/new-fox-float-38-2021-review/
zeb for me, cheaper by quite a margin and far less likely to creak than the 38's. mezzer sound interesting but poor back up rules them out for me.
mezzer pro is my choice.
but poor back up rules them out for me.
never had an issue with backup from manitou. what is likely to go wrong?
I know you've been okay with your Poah, but the reason there have been two lower revisions so far are because of known issues with bushing tolerance and lose bottom out bumpers.
That's fine when you get US level of service but if all we get is Hotlines, it's a genuine concern.
Mezzer not an option for me.
Has anyone found a Black 29er Zeb Ultimate in stock?
yet my mezzer is an old manufacturer date and it perfectly good. no issues with top out bumper or bushings.
I’ve one of the first Mezzer pros, no issues with mine either.
What’s it going on !?
a Paradox v3 by any chance 😜
I’ll be dropping it to 150mm and yes it will either go on the Paradox or my RSD Middle Child.
I'd get a 36 or lyric at 150mm then.
I’ve got the 38’s, they’re great. Marginal performance improvement over the new 36’s at the same 170mm travel. Certainly it’s a slight improvement at “singletrack” speeds over bike park speeds where it may be more noticeable. They look great though, mine are pistachio green. There are some reports of creaking (not isolated to the 38’s) and also reports that fox are fixing very quickly. That’s what I’ve heard anyway, I’ve not had an issue. I was riding with someone on the Zeb recently, a pro, and he was delighted with them. He was faster than me on my 38’s but there is a possibility that wasn’t due to the forks 🙂
I had a Mezzer Pro, lasted a week before bushing problems, Zero support from Hotlines until a couple of weeks after I sent it back to wiggle and insisted on a refund. Happy with the Lyrik I have now.
I find it hard to fathom the price difference between Fox and Rockshox.
Really fancy a Zeb myself to run at 180 (or even 190) on my 170mm 29er. It has too a low BB anyway so it'd be win-win.
Heard rumours about pro feedback that they were too stiff, but I never had that complaint with my old Totem or 66 and I'd like that "power steering" feel again.
I had a Mezzer Pro, lasted a week before bushing problems, Zero support from Hotlines
Works on Poah's iPad.
I find it hard to fathom the price difference between Fox and Rockshox.
Silverfish run some pretty sweet VW vans.
I already have a brilliant 150mm 2021 Lyric on one bike I don't want the same on the other. 🙂
Fox look great, Zeb is a stupid name, but....
You can buy two Zebs for the price of one 38, which pretty much settles the argument for me.
I would lean Fox for spare parts availability, RockShox for price.
Or STW answer, whatever matches your bike.
Are fox spares more readily available than Rockshox spares?!
Most of mates wouldn’t touch anything but fox. Then a mate got on my lyrik and couldn’t believe how much smoother than every fox fork felt. Fox sort of have that vw image in my head, everyone thinks they are better but in reality everything is pretty even
I already have a brilliant 150mm 2021 Lyric on one bike I don’t want the same on the other. 🙂
Fox 36 then 🙂
Zeb for me, servicing possible knowing you're not going to need any weird special tools.
I know someone who has paid full retail to replace an OEM fox 38 spec'd on his bike with a Zeb, too, so I'm not sure it comes down to just price. I'm not going to pretend I would notice or at least be bothered by the performance difference myself.
So yeah, Zeb if you're paying anything like RRP.
I really want a 38 but at RRP it's absolutely not happening. My 36 at 180mm is just a bit too flexible and it's always been on the harsh side. You just can't wind the compression far enough off without running too much sag. For the sake of £1300 or something, I'll just live with it.
I would have a Zeb but it would break up the Fox monopoly on my bike and look out of place. I'm not really a tart in any aspect of life but I refuse to break my Kashima triangle of fork/shock/dropper!
Are fox spares more readily available than Rockshox spares?!
Yes, just look at a Fox parts diagram and the RockShox spare parts catalogue for a fork or shock. Damaged RockShox stuff is scrap all the time as they dont sell a shock shaft, fork lower bushes, damper bladder (for newer models, they used to sell them) etc etc.
It depends how long people keep stuff, I regularly fix older Fox suspension, but am unable to repair a 3 year old RockShox part as they dont sell them. There are some aftermarket parts for some things, but nothing available for others.
RockShox are generally much easier to home service, much less propriety tooling.
I’m not really a tart in any aspect of life but I refuse to break my Kashima triangle of fork/shock/dropper!
Sorry mate, you are a tart.
"Kashima Triangle" - brilliant 🙂
Sorry mate, you are a tart.
My bike is the only object in my life where I need some kind of aesthetic cohesion. Matching rims, matching tyres, matching suspension. I'm a little grated at the minute because I wanted to try a 40mm rise bar without switching to a 35mm clamp so I've had to use a bar that's a different brand to my stem. I'm trying to ignore it but it's quite upsetting.
My girlfriend wishes these traits would extend to other areas of my life especially my wardrobe but I'm content to be a shambles in everything else.
I couldn't cope with mismatched tyres or rims but dropper and and fork I'm OK with.
Jeez I have mismatched rims- Mavic/wtb, hubs- formula/mavic, dropper- brandx, shock- fox, fork- RS yari with splug, tyres maxxis & e13, bar- renthal & stem- kona, grips- sdg my saddle & my back rim are both wtb & both brakes are hope , cranks raceface, shifter & mech- xt, cassette- Sunrace, pedals- crank bros
(Can anyone beat that?)
It rides great!
I'd get the Zeb, fox are silly money & creaky CSUs are the devil's works
@sharkattack pics please.
It's nothing outrageous to look at. This pic is from a while ago, I just fitted a Renthal Fatbar to the Joystick stem which I'll live with because it feels really nice and Renthal don't make none-ugly stems.
Still, it would look mint with a black Fox 38 up front.
(I'd happily run a red Lyrik but only if I could afford matching Super Deluxe coil shock and a Reverb)
I just bought a 180mm Zeb Ultimate to replace a 3 year old custom tuned 180mm Lyrik. I got the Zeb for £730 delivered and at that price it just doesn't make sense (for me) to go with a Fox 38 - which I couldn't really find at a sensible price anywhere. An Ohlins RXF m2 coil would have been my first choice but I would only buy with a warranty and they're priced above £1200 everywhere!
Fingers crossed I don't get a creaky CSU Zeb.
That's a decent price, considering.
Was that from Germany?
Yeah, from Hibike in Germany. Fortunately the GBP:EUR also picked up a couple of points in the last few days.
ihave fox 38's on my firebird. awesome fork
Unless your minted or sponsored then it's obvious... assuming you live in the UK.
If I lived in the US then the price difference is less severe...
Zeb for me, but the decals have to go, terrible name even worse decals.
Just put them on back to front.
Who wouldn't want a "Bez" fork?
I went for a Zeb Ultimate. I've just dropped it to 150mm and fitted it. Feels very smooth on the usual - ride it up and down the road in the dark test.
I might get a ride in before for work to check it out if I'm lucky.
If anyone is looking for a 190mm Zeb airshaft I have one spare 🙂
Dropped to 150mm, what a waste of a 38mm fork 🙂
I had no idea the price difference was so large in the UK.
I had been reading US reviews - RRP seem to be $1199 vs $999 over there. (Float Factory Grip vs Ultimate).
AlexSimon
I had no idea the price difference was so large in the UK.
Hence my comment earlier ... In the US most honest type reviews seem to conclude they are about as good as each other and about the same price.
Translate that to Euro/pound and they are "about the same performance but Fox costs significantly more.
I haven’t ridden either but I thought this review of the Zeb was quite interesting:
https://enduro-mtb.com/en/2021-rockshox-zeb-suspension-fork-test/
“The added stiffness [vs the Lyrik] doesn’t just have advantages. The ZEB occasionally required more input from the rider to stay on track, especially when it was wet and slippery. If you’re not careful, you’ll get blown off line more easily. Fatigue is something that is very difficult to test. However, we had the impression that especially on very long days of riding with more than 6,000 meters of descending, the added stiffness also led us to tire out sooner and we had slightly more painful hands. In scenarios where we would have easily been able to complete long runs with the Lyrik, the ZEB demanded more strength.”
It depends how long people keep stuff, I regularly fix older Fox suspension, but am unable to repair a 3 year old RockShox part as they dont sell them. There are some aftermarket parts for some things, but nothing available for others.
Where would you get a 2015-2017 160-180 36 airshaft from? (The one with the orange foot nut)
I looked / phoned "everywhere" and everyone told me discontinued. Did find in in Australia but they wanted a stupid amount for shipping...
“The added stiffness [vs the Lyrik] doesn’t just have advantages.
Same goes for the 38 I suppose.
What is more frustrating is limiting travel in lighter forks assuming everyone is 100kg.
I thought this review of the Zeb was quite interesting:
I've heard similar observations, apparently from some who had the fork way before launch.
Wonder if a coil version would be the best of all possible worlds? Would certainly like to test the current Zeb Ultimate on the gnar before spunking up my cash.
I haven’t ridden either but I thought this review of the Zeb was quite interesting:
https://enduro-mtb.com/en/2021-rockshox-zeb-suspension-fork-test/
“The added stiffness [vs the Lyrik] doesn’t just have advantages. The ZEB occasionally required more input from the rider to stay on track, especially when it was wet and slippery. If you’re not careful, you’ll get blown off line more easily. Fatigue is something that is very difficult to test. However, we had the impression that especially on very long days of riding with more than 6,000 meters of descending, the added stiffness also led us to tire out sooner and we had slightly more painful hands. In scenarios where we would have easily been able to complete long runs with the Lyrik, the ZEB demanded more strength.”
fits with some ews riders going back to fox 36 in the last couple of races.
However, we had the impression that especially on very long days of riding with more than 6,000 meters of descending, the added stiffness also led us to tire out sooner and we had slightly more painful hands.
Perhaps this is larger stanchions = more "stiction" / friction rather than an effect of the stiffness. Or simply new forks vs older Lyriks which are fully broken in. I'm finding it hard to believe that (fore-aft/lateral) stiffness can be bad per se.
Interestingly, though, (especially considering RS marketing motivations) Pinkbike have reported that some riders are using Lyriks / 36s on easier EWS tracks rather than the Zeb / 38.
It may all just be noise but I feel like the Zeb launch is a bit underwhelming?
Dropping them to 150mm might seem like a waste to some but thats the max for my hardtail.
To me the Zebs should be equivalent to a Trail fork for others. They are size appropriate to me.
who rode with lyrics or 36 ? what travel?
who rode with lyrics or 36 ? what travel?
160mm Lyriks / 170mm 36's.
The ZEB occasionally required more input from the rider to stay on track, especially when it was wet and slippery. If you’re not careful, you’ll get blown off line more easily.
I'm guessing they are riding harder than the average joe - I don't get blown off line more easily with the mezzer compared to my mattoc. The mezzer tracks better.
“Perhaps this is larger stanchions = more “stiction” / friction rather than an effect of the stiffness. Or simply new forks vs older Lyriks which are fully broken in. I’m finding it hard to believe that (fore-aft/lateral) stiffness can be bad per se.”
Larger stanchions will cause more friction under purely axial loads but in the real world there will always be torsional loads too, and the stiffer fork the more true the bushings will run so the lower the friction - so I don’t think that is it.
With two wheeled vehicles the suspension travel is rarely in the right direction because of the lean around corners. That’s when flex in the system helps to remove high frequency buzz. I don’t think fore-aft stiffness is ever a problem as the fork’s ankle path being so rearward. But sideways and rotational, some flex can help.