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Been playing with a shockwiz on my Fox 36 fit4 forks. I have always found them stiff and rarely feel I am using the correct travel so thought it would be worth checking out. After a few runs it is reporting that the high speed compression is to way to firm. This has stayed the same despite changing the other adjustments it recommended. Has anyone else experienced the same reports? Just want to check before I send them off for a custom tune.
High speed on forks tends to report that unless you absolutely hammer them. What's the test track like?
A mix of local Singletrack and some trails admitadly on the South Downs so all are very chalky and I am not hitting them as fast as I would in the dry.
Have you serviced them? Fox are renowned for being poorly assembled out the factory. Either too much grease on seals or none at all.
Might be worth a look…
Which model year is the damper?
Also… is the fork evol, or earlier?
2018 fox 36 fit 4 29 with 160mm of travel. With 2019 airshaft. Had all the oils and seals changed about 4 months ago by south coast suspension. I am pretty sure I will send them to tf tunned. Just don’t want to give them the wrong information so that I end up with the wrong tune.
My suspension setup knowledge isn’t great, hence trying the ShockWiz. I know when the suspension is setup how I like. I just have not been able to get these forks how I like them.
On a 36 RC2 ShockWiz had me wind off all compression damping and it still wanted less. It is a balance - I ended up winding in a few clicks of HS riding steep stuff in the Pyrenees but for pretty much anything in the UK they're much better.
One way of 'testing' it before you get any internal changes it to alter the shockwiz 'tuning style' in the custom settings. You should be able to adjust the tuning style based on your current ride data and see the change. Pretty sure mine was still reporting 'yellow' on the HSC but changing the tuning style a notch towards "firm" got it to green (ie it was only very slightly off SW recommendation).
Shockwiz sets stuff up very plush and uses a lot of travel.
The 2016-18 36’s have a tendency to feel over damped and a bit stiff / wooden in certain situations (ie when your not thrashing them). Flaw of decision, the best fix I’ve found was getting a luftkappe piston head fitted which increases the negative air chamber - makes a noticeable difference
“I just have not been able to get these forks how I like them”
This is exactly what I went through. After years of having 36’s I just couldnt get these ones right. Fit a luftkappe, couple of clicks of HS, couple more of LS and about 2/3 of the recommend PSI with one air spacer and they’re now miles better
Blakec: what do you weigh and what pressure do you have in the fork?
agree with sofaboy. luftkappe or push tune if you want a bit more initial 'give'. not that its really needed, but it does 'feel'better. they are brilliant when it all gets a bit rowdy mind
Thanks for all the advice. Will try a different tune on my next ride.
Neil. I'm 110kg run about 90psi
Shozkwiz is OK, but I found it generally told me what I already knew. It's not an end, it's a guide really.
The most important thing is feel. What feels wrong? What don't you like? What do you want more of? What do you want less if?
HSC might be the answer, or it might not be.
Have to say I gave up on the air Damper on my 2016 36's as it felt very stiff and stictiony and when it dropped below 5C the increase in the feeling increased dramatically. Im a lightweight at 11st so I think that exacerbated the problem. I ended up with a PUSH coil conversion and some low friction racing seals which solved the problem.
2016 36’s
They have a totally different air shaft assy to the 2018 and 2019 Fox. The 2016 still and the oversized quad seal on the seal head that generates a huge amount of friction.
That meant you ended up running not enough air with too many volume spacers, or not enough compression and rebound damping.
The Evol spring fixes that.
Going coil is *an* answer. But it depends on what the OP's actual problem is.
Coil is gonna help where the low speed bump compliance is poor, of the fork feels too progressive.
It sounds like the OP isn't sure what's wrong, but the Shockwiz is saying less HSC.
I found the fox recommendations for air pressures in my 2019 36 GRIP2 To be way off and felt over damped. For example fox recommends 76psi but I’m running 48psi with two tokens and I’m still not bottoming them regularly.
How much do you weigh OHH?
It sounds like the OP isn’t sure what’s wrong, but the Shockwiz is saying less HSC
That's exactly where I am. If I had to describe it the just feel stiff and not as plush as the pikes I had previously. It feels like I need more force than I should do to get them moving and I don't go into the last 60mm of travel.
How much do you weigh OHH?
I’m about 76kg without riding gear.
Dropping the pressure transformed them, started with both the HSC and LSC off and have only put 1-2 click off each on since. Really supple in the first part of the travel but ramps up nicely.
I don’t go into the last 60mm of travel.
Wow. That's a lot left. I'd say at most you want 10-20mm.
Have you burped your wiper seals? If you haven't, I highly recommend you try it. Pop a very small cable tie down the wiper seal of your forks, both sides, by using a fingernail to prise it open a bit, then push it down. If you hear a 'hiss' noise, that's air escaping that shouldn't be there. Probably solved our issue.
If not....
What settings do you have right now?
PSI
TOKENS
From fully open, how many clicks...
HSC
LSC
REBOUND
Shockwiz sets stuff up very plush and uses a lot of travel.
This is often stated.
Shockwiz sets up in response to the way the suspension is moving. It has no idea about what or how the rider is riding.
If you pin a test segment in serious terrain, Shockwiz sees more movement and will give you more green marks without softening suspension. If Shockwiz is telling you to set up your suspension soft it might mean you're mincing (although it could also be the fork isn't serviced or there is a fault.)
The bits where Shockwiz is good is in the detections part. Packing and bounce detections are useful diagnostics. I think it gets very arbitrary about tokens and pressure, misled by non-indications of deep travel which might have everything to do with riding style and terrain.
Iterate and always consider that setup is compromise. What Shockwiz is targeting might only have partial overlap with the compromises you consider optimal.
I would not schedule a custom tune based on Shockwiz feedback alone. Big hitting forks like the 36 exist to dissipate big amounts of energy. Hitting big terrain at big speeds are where the 36 should be dipping into its travel. A fork with a reputation for staying up in its travel isn't going to give up the bottom end of its travel lightly. Maybe, don't get hung up on it. Maybe, consider how the feel is working for you. From my own experience with big travel forks, that you don't use the last bits of travel habitually isn't an issue - they can feel right for everything you normally encounter and have the last travel in reserve. That said, not seeing the last 60mm of travel is a lot.
If Shockwiz is telling you to set up your suspension soft it might mean you’re mincing....
From my own experience with big travel forks, that you don’t use the last bits of travel habitually isn’t an issue – they can feel right for everything you normally encounter and have the last travel in reserve. That said, not seeing the last 60mm of travel is a lot.
That's kind of what I was getting at - Shockwiz wants to try to use all the travel frequently whereas I want to keep a bit more in reserve.
As Peaslaker says, not using the 60mm of 160 sounds like something is way out. Have you measured the travel on the stanchions and made sure Shockwiz has been correctly callibrated for the full travel? Full compression on Fox forks doesn't use all of the stanchion - it's to about the top of the Kashima logo but some way short of the exposed stanchion.
@blakec - Try running the fork with lower pressure. I have the same fork, but the 27.5" version. The Fox guide suggests 75psi for my weight (76kg all in), this was way too high. The guide from Pivot cycles that came with the bike suggested 51psi. I thought this would be way too low, however after 6 months of riding and trying to get the fork to behave as expected and by dropping the pressure more and more, I've finally found the sweet spot at 52psi with zero spacers, and LSC 3 clicks from fully open. Fork is now great on rocky chattery descents, but still only just reaching near full travel on heavy drops.
For a 110kg rider my Pivot guide suggests 80psi as a good starting point. Give it a try and see how you get on.
Those are low pressures - I'm using all the travel on my 150mm 2016 RC2's with about 80psi and one large and one small spacer. I weigh maybe 85kg kitted up...
Those are low pressures
That's what I thought, and why I ignored my bike manufacturers guide, but after months of the fork feeling harsher than expected and not getting near full travel, I find myself with the fork set nearly bang on Pivot's recommendation and the fork feeling great.
One_Happy_Hippy's experience sounds very similar to mine, so perhaps worth giving lower pressure a try, at the very least.
I used pivots recommendations. They were 90% there for me. A bit soft so upped the pressure. The fox chart it garbage. I have the grip2 damper but should be similar.
What sort of percentage of sag are you getting with these outlier measurements (both "60mm not being used at all" and "air pressure significantly below the manufacturer's suggestion"). As a lightweight rider with a shiny new Fox 36 to set up, I am curious, my previous one is at least 8 years old.
What sort of percentage of sag are you getting with these outlier measurements?
For me, stood on pedals with my weight centered over the BB, lest than 25%. For reference, the rear has 30% sag, as per the bike manufacturer (Pivot) recommendation.
One of the nice things shockwiz does is really easy sag measurements so the OP should have a good idea on that front.
Thanks for the suggestions.
Fox settings for my weight is 106psi. Which is way higher than what I currently run.
My Settings are
90 psi
HSC not adjustable.
LSC 2 clicks
Rebound 6 clicks
One volume spacer
Sag 20%
Will try burping the forks but I don't think it's that as they felt the same before the last lower leg service.
I didn't use full travel even when I messed up my landing and cased a landing.
I'm starting to think it maybe my damper. I have a trip to Rogate in a few weeks where I should be able to thrash it. Just not possible to fully commit on wet chalk.
I think you are running too little sag. Try 27-30% sag and go from there. 2-3psi can make quite a difference I found.
Way too little sag. Closer to 30%
My Settings are
90 psi
Way to much psi, for referene I’m getting near 100kg in my riding kit and run c 60psi