[Closed] Former Smuggler owners - what did you buy next?

Have a look at the recent Orange Stage Evo thread(s).

Personally I have an upsized Stage 4 with a slackset and it's amazing, but the Stage Evo will be an even better alternative.

Similar to the Smuggler in geometry & intention - but much more lively.

Smuggler is a funny one, travel would have you on a Spur or similar bike, but it's a heavy ,aggressive machine that's probably closer in intent to a mid travel bike like a Hightower or SB130

Thanks @chakaping

I've looked (online) at these. They seem to get decent reviews. I'm around 6'3" so right at the upper-end of the XL sizing. I should really sit on one.

I’m in exactly the same position. I’m even the same height, although the only difference is that I put a coil shock on my smuggler. Nothing to recommend, but if there was a “subscribe to thread” feature, I’d be doing that.

George is totally right, the Smuggler felt like it had more travel than it did and I found it a bit too planted for how I like to ride a short-travel 29er.

The Orange is the other end of the spectrum, poppy and zippy and skims over rather than soaking stuff up.

So it depends on your preferences, you might prefer something in the middle TBH.

I agree @honourablegeorge

The Spurs aesthetics are beautiful, but probably it's a tad shy on travel for being an ideal all-rounder.

Hightower and Tallboy both on a must try list in my head.

I bought a RipMo. 4k = 2nd hand RipMo.

In terms of closer-to-similar-travel, my Revel Rascal has been a fab all round trail bike. Prob not a 4k build tho as carbon frame.

Nukeproof Reactor? Defo in budget and seems to get rave reviews.

I swithered between a Stage 4 and a FlareMax when I replaced my Smuggler. Opted for the Cotic and am very happy with it, but could have gone either way really.

I’d think about the below on your budget:

Nukeproof Reactor 290
Bird Aether 9a or 9C
Santacruz Tallboy or Hightower - would have to be alloy versions for the budget I think

All the above are 130-140mm ish travel bikes.

If you fancy a bit longer than:

Ibis Ripmo AF

Transition Sentinel (I’ve recently moved from a Bird Aether 7 to a 2022 Sentinel Alloy and I love the thing - it’s much more keen to pop off trail features and manual than I expected and it pedals ok)

@roverpig - thanks.
How does the Flaremax compare to your Smuggler? Livelier, lighter? What forks have you gone for?

@Alex - cheers.
I forgot about Nukeproof. I wonder what the availability of those are.

@joebristol - thanks for your input

I'm sure they're excellent and I wish I liked them but Bird bikes FS offerings don't appeal. A real shame.

Sentinels look ace, but probably a wee bit too much bike for 90% of what I do.

I've had a Bandit, and the Smuggler, recently 'upgraded' to a Sentinel. I still ride the Smuggler. But the Sentinel is great for park and bigger mountain days. I do feel like at a certain price point, the big brands have very sorted bikes. It becomes more of a question about brand - and buying a bike that suits 99% of your riding (unless it's N+1 of course!) FWIW - Nukeproof is hard to beat - a lot of bike for the money.

Smuggler was a shorter travel and bit of a hooligan...

In true STW style of recommending what you own, have you looked at the Banshee Phantom and Prime?

@dday - cheers
Seems like Nukeproof need a bit more of my attention.

@BillOddie - thanks
I've never looked at Banshees. Will do now, ta.

I recently got a norco optic as an insurance replacement - it’s absolutely brilliant, fast, light, great shape. Sometimes runs out of travel as it’s only 125mm, but the trade off is worth it. Not sure I’d have got one if I’d had more choice, but now I’ve got it I’m really pleased. May struggle with getting one big enough to fit you though as I’m just over 5’10” on a large. Previous few bikes include an aether 7, bird AM9, Whyte T129, and Whyte T130, and an older 29 stumpy

Optic is a good call, really close match for the Smuggler

I had a Smuggler and a Patrol, both 2019 SBG

I bought an eBike and don't have the room for 2 MTBs, a CX bike, a tandem and an eBike so I sold both Transitions and bought a Ripmo AF. It's been great at replacing both those bikes. It's not a full on enduro bike like the Patrol or aggro trail bike like the Smuggler but it is perfect for covering all those bases. A bit underbiked at times but I quite enjoy that, I'm good at rough stuff so my skill makes up for it and I'm less good at twisty stuff so the bike makes up for that bit

Bascially I needed an enduro bike without the extra weight and length of one and the Ripmo is perfect for that but it sounds like you're after a trail/XC bike, I'd say a Spur would fit that bill but probably not in budget unless they are appearing secondhand yet

I would love to buy a Spur and ride it like an enduro bike, must be hilarious and scary

Of the suggestions above I'd defo be looking at the Reactor and Optic, have mates on both and they rave about them

@ianpv and @chrishc777 - thanks

I've thought about the Optic as a direct replacement. Definitely one for the shortlist although out of stock at their distributor at the moment. Imagine that!

Anyone riding a Kona Process 134 Cr? One has just popped up on my radar!

Spur would be on the lighter side of what is perhaps ideal, but I'm amazed at what I can get away with on mine. At times it feels like it could out run a Foxy XR I had a while back, and that had a 160mm Fox 36 on it!

Plenty of folks suggesting the Ripmo, but the Ripley AF may also be a good shout. Might have the same rear travel as the Spur, but a very different bike.

I’ve thought about the Optic as a direct replacement. Definitely one for the shortlist although out of stock at their distributor at the moment. Imagine that!

Tredz have got an XL optic C1 (£5K) and a C3 (£3K) - I got the C1 from wheelies (tredz) through insurance and the kit is nice - full XTR, fox peformance elite suspension etc. but if it was my money I'd have got and been happy with the C3!

In 2020 I changed my Smuggler frame for a new MY18 Pivot Mach 429 Trail as the distributor was selling them off for £1500 with a 10 year warranty. I also have a 2014 Turner Czar & would probably replace both with a Santa Cruz Blur TR, but happy with both for now.

a friend of mine replaced his smuggler with a starling murmur. he prefers it in every way. he lives and rides in surrey and is definitely a “trail rider” kind of rider.

How does the Flaremax compare to your Smuggler? Livelier, lighter? What forks have you gone for?

To be honest I didn’t really get on with the Smuggler. It’s a great bike for sure, but I always felt a bit detached from the ride if you know what I mean. I was coming from a 26” Five and just preferred the connection I had with that. The FlareMax basically seemed to give a similar lively feel, which I prefer. Weight was pretty much the same if I remember correctly (around 32lb on my bathroom scales for a size large) but obviously depends on the build.

I ran it with a 130mm Pike and it was way more capable than I’ll ever be in that guise. That’s not saying much though. I’m definitely more at the XC end of XC/Trail and last year I switched the Pike for a 120mm fox 34 as well as fitting lighter more XC tyres and it suits me better like that. But it’s a pretty versatile bike. A burly build with a 140mm fork is going to feel very different to a light build with a 120mm fork.

I snapped my smuggler in November and was all sad because it was a brilliant bike ☹️

However transition and windwave sorted me out with a cheap replacement sentinel under the crash replacement policy (even though I bought the smuggler second hand) which made me happy again 🙂

I haven't had that much time on it but initial impressions are good. Seems to pedal just as well, it's actually a bit lighter, and should be even more capable (though I haven't tried pushing anywhere near its limit yet)
Also the way windwave and transition dealt with my warranty claim is enough to recommend both companies.

I swapped mine for a Orange Stage Evo as chakaping wrote, it doesn't 'flatten stuff' like the Smuggler did.

@Vortexracing - yes, I think I saw that thread.

@el_boufador - yes, I can see why tranny owners stick with the brand. Good bikes and from the few examples of breaks and other issues that I know of, owners have been looked after fairly.

@roverpig - thanks for your feedback on the Cotic.

Thanks all for your input. It’s been really interesting for me and has definitely provided some more food for thought.

I guess top of my list on the back of this thread is to explore the Optic, Reactor and Stage Evo and then maybe an Ibis or SC Hightower/Tallboy.

We’ll see what happens, if any are available and in my budget.

Interesting thread. I have a smuggler and I love it, three years on it. Could be lighter but happy with weight if the bike feels right, which this does for me.

I sometimes mentally browse and think a Nukeproof Reactor, Sonder Evol, the new stumpjumper evo or Optic would be where I look. Possibly the virus escarpe as well which seems crazily priced for the spec

I have a 2015 Smuggler but moved to a Sight as my son started riding with me. He's using it now and loves it (wish I had started riding a bike like this when I was young!).
If you want more travel go for a Sight, if not, Optic....or you can update your Smuggler and keep it.
If it wasn't for my son wanting to ride with me, I would still ride the Smuggler.

Not a smuggler but similar in principle, I had a Banshee Phantom and decided to change it for an Evil The Following. The Following is probably a technically better bike in every measurable way, but when it came time to change again, I thought long and hard about getting another Banshee, I’ve never been faster or had more fun on a bike than I did on that Phantom!

Ended up getting a 5010 to try something completely different… after so long on 29ers, the ease of moving the bike around and changing direction is noticeable, and a whole heap of fun. Definitely not as quick on it as I was on the Banshee though if that’s your thing.

Just on a few bikes mentioned above I rode a Santa Cruz 5010 CC (gen before the current one) back to back with my 2022 Sentinel recently. The SC felt very direct and a lot rougher over roots / rocks when you hit them hard. It felt like it had a firmer platform to push against when standing up and pedalling hard - on blue / red quite natural trail centre stuff it was quite a bit slower than the Sentinel though. This was at Rowberrow with a fairly twisty trail.

Surprisingly though the Sentinel is still really fun on not that technically difficult trails and is happy to pop the front up and really rail corners. So I guess my point is that bikes aren’t always quite what they seem.

Out of your shortlist the Optic looks a really good option - I’ve seen Ian’s bike in the metal (or carbon) and it’s a good looking bike.

I almost bought a secondhand carbon reactor frame - but couldn’t quite get my head round a carbon frame with no warranty as it’s not transferable with Nukeproof (and the alloy one was out of stock - otherwise I probably would have bought one). The geometry on the Reactor is decent and it’s meant to be ace on the downhills.

Hightower wise that was on my shortlist but the alloy frame only option didn’t come with a very good shock which put me off.

@joebristol

I appreciate your thoughts.

I've been looking at lunchtime at a few things and keep coming back to both the Optic and Reactor too. I'm half thinking of a Reactor frame plus some decent 140/150 forks and wheels and salvaging most of the rest from my current bike (the bits which will fit, at least).

Thanks again.

Yeah that could work well - £2499 for a carbon reactor 290 doesn’t seem too bad and it comes with a decent enough shock too.

If you put on a Pike or 34 and some decent wheels (maybe Dt XM481 rims on Pro4 / or DT 350s) I think it would build up at a decent weight.

I've had an alu reactor since June and really think it's a great bike. I've got the lowest spec comp model but besides from the wheels not being fantastic, all the other kit on it is great. It's a riot on the downhills and climbs quite well for it's weight. I will replace the wheels with some DT's or similar when they break, but overall I'm chuffed with it.

Banged my Smuggler carbon up to 160mm front and chucked on a piggy back shock out back. Utter hooligan bike now. Climbing is still 'okay' but point it down and hang on for the ride. Only criticism (and it's a biggy) is the sh@t rear tyre clearance. A fatter tyre on the back would certainly help compensate for the shorter travel.

No plans to change it yet as I also have an Enduro I am slowly destroying out here in Madeira. The Smuggler lives in the UK and is perfect for that. No idea what I would replace it with... Probably another Yeti.

@bonni I have a custom built 2021 Kona Process 134 CR 29 in XL. I ride mostly XC/trail, a min 50/60 miles a week, it tackles both climbs and descents with ease. I was worried it wouldn't be as nimble with 29in wheels, but it's quite the opposite and just wants to be ridden flat out. I managed to get 25% off the retail price and there are still some good deals to be found, although probably only a handful left in the country.

a friend of mine replaced his smuggler with a starling murmur. he prefers it in every way. he lives and rides in surrey and is definitely a “trail rider” kind of rider.

I hear there's a nice one for sale in the classifieds!