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I need a lot of help with this one.
Bought the reduced ebike from CRC, but found the fork is twisted.
New fork you would think, so what size etc.
Took the fork off, selected one from the box and took the crown race off the twisted fork to swop to the new one and found the internal diameter of it is not the same as the new fork.
Steerer tube on the twisted fork is 1 1/8, steerer on the new fork is 1 1/8" but on the new fork the crown race diameter is thee standard 30mm, but on the twisted fork the internal diameter is 32.5mm(I take it thats 1 1/4")
The steerer on the twisted fork is straight 1 1/8", and only the bit where the crown race sits is this thicker ,wider 32.5mm So its not a tapered fork, not quite.
Headset is an internal type.
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Options ?
I see theres a few 1 1/4"-1 1/8" forks about, though those have a tapered tube, and because the tube on my twisted busted fork is not tapered, only the wider crown race bit, I'm not sure if it would fit.
Plus I already have a 700c fork(Kona P2 disc) that i'd much rather use.
So would it be better changing the entire headset thats reduced to 1 1/8" on the bottom, as I dont think i can get a crown race that is for internal headsets that is specced for 1 1/4" but has the internal diameter of 30mm.
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I saw this, which i think would do if the headset was the standard type, but with it being internal i dont think it will work.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256226521599
Another small point is on the twisted fork, where the crown race sits it is pretty wide so supports the entire race, but on the P2 fork, the race area is much smaller, and if i could find a race for 1 1/4" that had the internal diameter of 30mm, it would only really be supporting the middle of the race, and i dont think that would be safe.
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I've sent off 2 emails to CRC about this and ive yet to even get an acknowledgement. Contacted buzzbike(As the bike has their name on it), just really to find out the technical info- headset type/make/size, fork crown race size etc, and they did get back to me, but have said they got/get all their bikes off CRC so please contact them for the info I need. So no real help there.
Any help, ideas, solutions would be much appreciated.
Ta 🙂
What bike is it - are there any live links at all to it on the internet?
they got/get all their bikes off CRC so please contact them for the info I need
Doesn’t their business model include “on demand repairs”… someone there will need to know the headset spec.
What bike is it – are there any live links at all to it on the internet?
Its this bike here. Actual technical information is non existent.
https://www.buzzbike.cc/ez-electric-bike
Doesn’t their business model include “on demand repairs”… someone there will need to know the headset spec.
I expect someone will, if they actually bother getting back to me, and after ignoring 2 emails I dont think email route is going to provide any answers. Next option is live chat, which I'll do monday or tuesday.
Of course this could have been avoided if there was any truth in their statement they include in the bike description.
" When you order a bike, one of our trained mechanics will carefully prepare and pack your bike for shipping. Upon delivery, the assembly is simple and all necessary tools and plastic pedals are conveniently included in the box."
A trained mechanic would have immediately noticed the fork had a manufacturing defect by the fact he'd be unable to fit the wheel to the fork, so would have flagged it up, and they'd have removed it from sale.
However, what is more likely is they receive the bike pre boxed from the far east, they dont open it, but just send it direct to the customer, so this nonsense about a "Trained mechanidc2 etc etc is a bunch of bollocks.
Given I've saved about £800 on the price means I'd rather just sort the fork than send it back, and given CRC are in administration, and judging from their site where much appears to have been sold off I dont want to end up in the scenario where they have the ebike, my money and end up with the administrators holding it all and i end up with nothing. Currently at least I have the bike. Even if i have to spend a few quid on a replacement headset, or fork, im still going to be doing better than having no bike and no refund.
I can do the mechanical side of things, but i need the tech info, and i need to at least know what options i have by way of replacing this or that.
So thats why i was hoping someone here would know or understand things like headset reducers, crown steerer option conversion things etc.
Personally think my only option is to remove the headset. Fit an 1 1/4" to 1 1/8" lower conversion adaptor, then fit an 1 1/8" new headset. But I would like to know what others think or have experience in.
There’s no point chasing CRC… who’s going to get back to you? It’s a ghost ship now.
Someone at buzzbike will have to know the headset spec, to carry spares for their service team (bike professors).
Someone at buzzbike will have to know the headset spec, to carry spares for their service team (bike professors).
Its got nothing to do with buzzbikes. I bought it from crc, much like buzzbikes bought theirs from crc.
Bike professors isnt going to be any help either, as they are associated with buzzbikes, not crc. And besides, i did contact them and was referred to crc because its got nothing to do with them.
Look its quite simple to understand. Buzzbikes buy a bike via crc, and have crc put their company logo on it. end of contract, theres a load of boxes left over that buzzbikes no longer want and crc sell them off. fact its got a decal on it saying buzzbikes is immaterial.
CRC are gone, aren't they? Just skeleton staff to ship the last bits and turn the lights off if there is still power.
Do I remember Halfords offering to deal with warranty issues on bikes sold by CRC a few months / weeks ago? I might have invented that or it had stopped though.
Look its quite simple to understand.
There is no one who works for CRC who can answer your questions. Those people are all gone.
There will probably be people who fix bikes at BuzzBikes who could answer your question... you'll have to ask nicely though... they owe you nothing.
I don't quite follow the problem and can't work out what the actual question is?
1) have you checked the fork will fit in the frame by putting it in there?
2) if it does and the headset crown race doesn't fit order one that does. An adapter will be fine.
Some budget "tapered" forks are just an 1 1/8 with a spacer attached to the crown, this may be what you have on the original.
You may want to measure the head tube and work out what size headset it is while you have it apart, there are plenty of resources like cane creek headset finder and Sheldon brown to help with that.
There is no one who works for CRC who can answer your questions. Those people are all gone.
There will probably be people who fix bikes at BuzzBikes who could answer your question… you’ll have to ask nicely though… they owe you nothing.
Yes I've done all that kelvin, and what i was hoping for is that someone here, who is more used to modern 700c sizes would be able to supply me some info. For example what is the crown race size for an 1 1/4" or what is the classification for that type of lower bearing ? 39mm, 45mm what 😕 is it IS44 or IS47 because the reduced crown races that convert 1 1/4" on the outside, but use a smaller inside diameter are advertised as fittign that type of info.
eg this is the part i need Madison M-part (though not this exact one as this is for EC and i probably need Is. I just need to know if its Is39, or Is44 or whatever, or is it Zc44 or Zc47. The actual product designation number.
Of course crc is defunkt, and buzzbikes are nothing to do with the bike itself, i established that at the start.
So as above, was hoping someone who is familiar with 700c could have offered some advice on the actual sizes or parts needed, rather than tel me just to contact someone else. I can do that for myself.
Type of thing they would possibly know offhand.
When it comes to standard 1 1/8" or tapered for mtb i can ring that stuff off,because i have spent a fair bit of time servicing and fitting that size. but i know nothing about 700c and was hoping some helpful chap who can also ring that suff off for 700c would have come along.
I mean are you familiar with 700c sizes Kelvin ?. Do you know what type of size an internal 1 1/4" headset crown race is otherwise listed as 😕
For example Madison M-Part make a reducer. 30mm inside diameter suitable for a wide range of sizes. external or internal cup. But when it comes to 1 1/4" theres a few . eg EC44 or is it Zs39 or Is47 and whats the number relates directly to the size i need. I have digital calipers, but only work on approximates.
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Little point going back and forth to some company who might have the info, or try 6 or so people working for buzzbikes before I find the person who knows what the info is. Contacting buzzbikes, or even crc is not like speaking the Hope tech service department. half the time it will be some call handler who just tells you they dont know, or send an email to someone else who doesnt understand the technical aspects. pilar to post, pillar to post and around we go again.
I prefer to , with help for people on a cycling forum who are experienced mechanics, and work this all out for myself. That way
I know what I want and can make an informed choice as to what to buy.
Maybe provide some photos of what you actually have and the coresponding dimensions of the frame head tube internal diameters? We can then work out what standard it is eg. EC44 or is it Zs39 or Is47.
Oh and 700c has absolutely nothing to do with headset standards.
"Do you know what type of size an internal 1 1/4″ headset crown race is otherwise listed as"
Steerer ID is 31.8 mm. Giant called it "Powerdrive" or something daft like that.
EDIT: can follow this advice for this stuff...
"You may want to measure the head tube and work out what size headset it is while you have it apart, there are plenty of resources like ... Sheldon brown to help with that."
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-headsets.html
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https://chrisking.com/pages/fit-finder
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https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/the-ultimate-guide-to-headsets
Its got nothing to do with buzzbikes. I bought it from crc, much like buzzbikes bought theirs from crc.
Bike professors isnt going to be any help either, as they are associated with buzzbikes, not crc. And besides, i did contact them and was referred to crc because its got nothing to do with them.
Look its quite simple to understand. Buzzbikes buy a bike via crc, and have crc put their company logo on it. end of contract, theres a load of boxes left over that buzzbikes no longer want and crc sell them off. fact its got a decal on it saying buzzbikes is immaterial.
Did Buzzbikes really tell you that? There's not really a practical way to add someone else's logo to a bike in the way you describe. Most (99.9%) of logos are on the underside of the lacquer and so are made that way in the far east. They can't be changed on a whim. Far more likely Buzzbikes is ordering these (Probably catalogue) bikes for themselves with their logos, and selling the spares to CRC/Probike etc. at a knock down price when they are overstocked. That was CRCs basic business model for years.
TBH even if Buzzbikes told you that I would still be more likely to believe the person telling you had the wrong end of the stick than that being the way it worked. The fact they want nothing to do with the bike is fair enough though to be honest. Any warranty implied or otherwise starts (and possibly ends) with CRC.
Hi there,
Thank you for getting in touch.
Chain Reaction is a supplier who we purchased Buzzbikes EZs from who as you may know have gone into administration. Although our brand is on the bike we are not the manufacturer.
So they did buy them from crc, which made me think these are bikes left over. OR whatever, im not privy to such internal info. but as you say, the warranty is with crc, though they are now gone, leaving me in stumm.
As above, Halfords appear to have taken up warranties from crc, but ive yet to contact them, so dont know what help they could offer, and as its just thee technical info im after so i can sort this with a new fork, they might not know themselves.
it is only really all hinging on a crown race. I get the number/type of that im good to go.
I'm guessing you don't actually want any help as you only seem bothered about the things that are irrelevant to your solution.
Please just give us some dimensions of what you actually have.
A few manufacturers used to do a crown race for using a 1.25 steerer with a headset designed for 1.5 steerer, like Chris King... BUT that was for use with their own headset. To find what you want, we need to know more... dimensions of the lower bearing, including the angle of the interface with the race, at an absolute minimum. And even then, simply using a different crown race might not be possible.... you could be looking at options that depend on the lower cup (or frame if integrated). All stuff BuzzBikes need to know to keep their bikes on the road... but if they won't help you... it's callipers and camera time if you want help without going to a shop.
I'm really confused, but 'gravel' and road forks can be tapered with the normal 1 1/8th at the top for conventional stems, and 1 1/4 at the bottom (rather than 1 1/2).
Can you not use a 1 1/4 to 1 1/8 crown race adapter on your P2s?
Depends on the size of the lower bearing, which depends on the lower cup and/or headtube… all of which is still a mystery.
Bearing is 34mm internal diameter, or at least the ring that the crown race rests against is 34mm. angle is probably 45 degrees because 99% of bearing faces on headsets are 45 degrees. How you measure an angle is such a tight space is beyond me, but if anyone has any suggestions, I'd like to hear them. Though to be honest i dont think the angle really matters at this stage.
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Managed to partially remove the upper bearing seal and it shows its a loose bearing type, so the lower will be too. It is a basic type bike so i suppose such a headset is to be expected.
Trying to remove the ring itself to do any other checks will end up with x amount of loose bearings falling out. they appear to be oiled but not grease, so theres little actually holding them in once the retaining ring is removed.
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Taking apart the entire headset isnt really going to help anything unless i decide to remove the entire thing, which may be the only sensible option.
If I take the entire thing out, I can measure and fit a proper cartridge bearing type
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I’m really confused, but ‘gravel’ and road forks can be tapered with the normal 1 1/8th at the top for conventional stems, and 1 1/4 at the bottom (rather than 1 1/2).
Yeah well its not a proper type tapered steerer. Only the seat for the crown race is bigger.
Can you not use a 1 1/4 to 1 1/8 crown race adapter on your P2s?
Again thats the preferred option, but as Kelvin say6s its knowing which specific one to buy as theres a few. For example on one headtube the headset seat might be wider or narrower, meaning the bearing is different.
All in all its just a pain in the bum and more work than it should be which is why maybe losing the cheap headset for a better quality one where all the sizes aare known means i can pick the right adaptor crown race to suit. Im sure the Madison m part on will make parts to suit the majority of a quality headset rather than the type found on cheaper systems.
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Can you not use a 1 1/4 to 1 1/8 crown race adapter on your P2s?
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TBH the seat area on the P2s is pretty small, and a wider crown race is only going to be supported in the middle, which probably isnt going to be safe as i see it. So I'll probably put on a cheap sus fork, just so the supporting area the race sits on is wider.
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It's either that or I'd better learn to wheelie
If the fork is steel can it not simply be twisted back to the correct shape
Otherwise the best bet is simply replace the lower headset with the right one for your fork. Assuming it had cups drift the old one out, measure up and away you go, or simply get an Lbs to do it. It's what they're for
"maybe losing the cheap headset for a better quality one where all the sizes aare known means i can pick the right adaptor crown race to suit"
I think that's what I'd go for. Good luck!
What are Kissues?
#tworonnies
If the fork is steel can it not simply be twisted back to the correct shape
Alloy, but wide bladed affairs. Bending would be difficult and its not just that they are no longer parallel, they're crushed together too. spacing is 87mm over the 100mm it should be, and 13mm is far too much to try to bend back. A couple of mm maybe, but thats way too much.
Plus with alloy im not sure i even want to try given if any part of a bike is going to collapse, best its not the fork 😆
Again thats the preferred option, but as Kelvin say6s its knowing which specific one to buy as theres a few. For example on one headtube the headset seat might be wider or narrower, meaning the bearing is different.
No, but if you're trying to get a 1 1/8 steerer into a taper 1 1/4, can't you use a crown race reducer on the fork, and just keep the same bearing, crown race, and headset cup as came installed on the 1 1/4 fork?
Reducers tend to be built into a crown race, rather than something that the existing crown race can mount on.
Given the nature of this bike (with a cheap and nasty headset) I reckon you could just bang whatever 1 1/8" - 1 1/4" crown race you want on there and it'd make zero difference. I think you're overthinking this. The adapters aren't unsafe, and this isn't a downhill bike - it's going to be used for pootling about, surely?
Spoken to Willy Bain on this. And he's said just to bring the lower headset cup in and we can measure it there, get the size, then get a proper headset fitted.
He was going to lend me the tool for measuring the size and angle(He's cool about that), but thought it simpler just to bring the part in.
Once the headset is sorted I can get a fork thats wider on the crown to support that size of race. Was thinking of the RS paragon gold much better than some cheapo suntour or such, and probably 1 1/2lbs lighter. But get the headset sorted first.
If I try and opt for a tapered steerer fork, might need to swop the wheel as the dropouts are more than likely going to be bolt through.