[Closed] Forget Enduro, I want a lightweight XC bike

yes

Ergo, shouldn't I be riding an XC bike?

Tallboys, Rocky Thunderbolt/Instinct, Spec Camber etc. 120mm forks forks and a bit of a slacker angle but still light and zippy

Fast rolling tyres makes the biggest single difference. There's nothing wrong with wanting an XC bike though... I want one, just know it would get used about twice a year if it was lucky! I settled for a more all rounder HT with 120mm fork, that I have faster rolling tyres for when the occasion requires (such as Wild Boar Chase yesterday).

it would be good to get more miles done, quicker.

Depends on budget (and what bike you're riding now) - in my experience getting a full sus xc bike to actually be significantly quicker isn't as straightforward as it seems. Tyres can make most of the difference.

Yes. A proper xc bike will get you in the right position to get the best out of your power. No big slack front ends - nice, lower and steeper instead. Steeper, but not very twitchy anymore compared to xc bikes of yore.

I got rid of my Orange five for a Grand Canyon 29er xc flying machine for similar reasons, I have to say I am very impressed how capable it is over tech stuff. Do it!!

A CX bike is very tempting to be honest and may be just what I need. I've always thought my Bandit was the perfect "do anything" MTB for me, but when I did a couple of longs days where the riding was rarely technical (and there was quite a bit of quiet country lane) I realised it's not as perfect as I thought and I'd definitely like something that I can stomp on the pedals with a bit more urgency and propulsion.

Put some 120mm forks and a dropper on a f/s xc bike. Great for mile munching and lets you have a bit of fun on rougher sections as well.
Don't listen to the cyclocross crowd, their very much a compromise of road on all but the smoothest trails.

Parkwood?

another yes vote over here. I'm another grand canyon owner, its fast, light, not overly twitchy and pretty damn comfortable for long rides. It also deals with the techy stuff better than I thought it would. Only changes I've made to the spec are wider tubeless tyres and a wider low rise bar plus shorter stem.

I suppose we were riding the same trails a decade ago with steepish head angles and 100mm forks. It was still fun then right?

My XC 650b.....

[IMG] [/IMG]

Life in the old dog yet.

Loads of cheap Anthems at Pauls Cycles...

+1 re mboys comments about faster rolling tyres.

Last week I changed my tyre combo to a faster rolling combo...rode my local loop and beat all my Strava (dowhill) PB's without even trying. I was really surprised it'd make that much of a difference. Edit. I'm never trying to go super fast downhill so my PB's have never been worked for , if that makes sense.

Realistically I'm not going to buy a new bike, but have my eye on some different tyres. I've got a Spesh Purgatory on the back at the moment which is very draggy. Thinking of replacing it with a Ground Control or the new Slaughter which gets rave reviews.

Lightweight XC bikes are great...and very capable compared to those of the past!

I'm more than happy riding my 29er hard tail fast through the rock gardens, Purgatory 29 x 2.3" on the front and Ground Control 29 x 2.1" on the rear, both setup tubeless with stans sealant, pressure around 30psi

[img] [/img]

I'm more than happy riding my 29er hard tail fast through the rock gardens

Yes - a mate and I were recently riding Afan Masts DH trails in the rain, him on a Pivot 429, me on my Anthem X29, both with 120mm forks and droppers. Were they the most suitable bikes? No... Where they ridable and fun... Yes...

Similarly BPW - had amazing fun smashing down their trails on our short travel full sussers.

The organic thing driving is the biggest difference, but you can make changes to tyres, geo (angle sets, offset bushes, fork travel), stem/bar height etc to tune a bike towards your preferences...

Modern XC bikes (especially full sussers) are pretty damn competent...

This is my XC bike (obviously not ridden by me) with a 120mm fork over 100mm and a dropper, just a bit more relaxed but just as fast

I'm loving my Scott Scale 960 29er right now. Stuck some Jones Loop bars on, some Hope Tech XC hoops and some fast tyres (set up tubeless Maxxis Ardent Race EXO TR 29x2.2 and a Continental Race King 29x2.2 rear).
It absolutely flys and is super comfy.

Have got a Specialized S-Works Renegade 2BR tyre coming for the rear this week as i'm getting a bit of tyre rub on the chanstay when I lean the bike over but that should be even faster than the Race King. Bargain price of £20 delivered from Sigma Sport too.....

I hear what others have said about a fast CX bike but having both, a CX is way twitchier downhill off road and I find I need to be on the brakes more. I can just let the 29er go and it feels really planted.

Transition would claim the Bandit (my bike) *is* their XC bike in their range. At the time they did nothing more XC than that 😆

my experience they are still a bit steep and twitchy,

See I love the fact that XC race bikes are twitchy it part of what makes them fun, it's like they are asking you to go faster. I guess it's like driving a race car, for doing the daily commute in then it's going to stress you out, but for fun times then 😀

Is the big tide starting to turn back, I wonder?

Fast. Twitchy. Fun. Like a race car.

Whoooo d' thunk it eh? 😀

Is the big tide starting to turn back, I wonder?

My thoughts too. It's telling that the mag had a review of XC bikes recently and I have a knack of being [s]ahead of the curve in my thinking[/s] a sheep waiting to be manipulated by the market trends

[edit] part of me - the roadie part - is tempted to do a bit of racing and I can't help but feel I'd need a better tool to do so

This has cheered me up no end-DEFINITELY going to hang on to my old skool 26'er with 120 forks, will be worth an absolute mint when the tide does turn and everyone realises that what they rode back in the day was good fun then and nothing has changed, perhaps the trails are more alive now but I'm not so sure

perhaps the trails are more alive now

?

People are turning to CX and adventure road to get out and about in the countryside. But when the terrain is too technical and their enduro bike too heavy maybe they do need to be sold an xc bike.

XC is a weird one anyway it covers everything from short race circuits to long all day epics. From what I can tell most people by Enduro "rigs" because they want to focus on the down, if you want a more rounded ride then an XC bike will get you there, you might need to up your game or drop your speed on some bits but generally if the rider is good he bikes are fine.

I have been a year on a gravel bike and just this week came to the same conclusion a light weight XC bike or dare I say it a of road oriented hybrid would be better my trails are to rutted for a gravel bike, and to be honest gravel here is not like gravel/dirt roads in the USA to much water damage makes for really poor surfaces deeply rutted and bloody dangerous when on a head down ass up drop bar bike, My gravel bike will get guards and slicks for winter and I have resurrected my old inbred for the gravel and trails.

I am soo dumb I fall for the marketing hype at my age.

Great idea in my mind, I've got a 100mm travel 29'er FS and it's ace, to be honest it's made my 29'er 100mm travel HT a bit redundant.

I haven't found anything yet that I would've ridden on my Five that I wouldn't ride on my Epic.

And the Epic is faster, much faster.

I've gone from a tallboy to an Open - even with a lack of fitness I've hammered some local Strava times (poor comparison I know) reckon it would be out of its depths on a peaks ride

[URL= http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz211/dansipods/2E86E3CB-53D5-4B3E-8ABA-A34E84B9BFAE_zpsotuzlqcg.jp g" target="_blank">http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz211/dansipods/2E86E3CB-53D5-4B3E-8ABA-A34E84B9BFAE_zpsotuzlqcg.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

^ Holy crap. That looks faaaaaaast! 😯

I think maybe you want a 'mountain bike'.

Although exactly what that means has changed over the last couple of decades, today I would say that today it's a 100-120mm (FS or not) 29'er. With slacker than a race bike but not quite 'enduro' angles.

Something you can 'leck about on on t'moors' as Brant would say. Ride it all day, ride the odd race for fun, do the odd drop/jump but nothing with too high a penalty for failure.

I thought I had a 'mountain bike' 🙂

When I bought my current bike (3 years ago), 650b was but a twinkle in the eye of the bike brands with only Scott getting bikes in the showrooms. I went with a 140mm up front, 130mm out back 26er because I thought it would be the ideal jack-of-all-trades. It probably still is, but it's a steady sit-down-and-pedal machine rather than a feisty up-and-at-them mile muncher. Maybe I'm just getting less fit and blaming the bike 😆

From the off, I'll admit I'm a cannondale fan and my 2004 model Jekyll still is my only bike.
All that clamour for the deals at Pauls cycles had me thinking (hypothetically of course, in case Mrs rock finds out) that I'd fancy a new carbon Jekyll 2.
For some reason, I came to the realisation it might be too much bike for me and my abilities.....oh, but look, there's a trigger. Yep, definitely that one.
Now, I'm even erring off the trigger and if funds would allow it, I'd probably buy a habit.
I "think" I'd just like a nice new shiny bike, that takes the stings, but is simple and suits my level of riding.
#unduro

Yup I am definitely unduroing 😆

Well Im in Spain and the main riding out here is mountainous XC, most bikes in the shops are XC hardtails, I was looking for something to ease my ageing back and shelved my OnOne C456, Ive so far resisted the wheelsize increase and plumped for a Scott Spark 610m, one of the last production carbon 26ers. I have some Easton EC70 carbon trail wheels on it and a RS Monarch RCT3 shock, weighing just over 11Kg it isnt really a porker nor a flyweight and it can hammer down anything fast n rough we come accross, on the techie stuff its still really agile. The couple of chicos that have more enduro bikes really pay the penalty around here on the long hills climbing, and on the flatter coast roads coming back home they just can`t push them fast enough.
Echoing the above sentiments a good FS XC bike will fullfil most anyones needs. although the better shock changed the bike no end!

Use the apostrophe, not the thingy top left and it won't **** up your text.

Glad my bike's coming back into fashion!

Thought I'd throw my personal feelings in as seem to be going through this dilemma currently.

Myself, my brother and mate have been riding non stop since the 90's and only ever don 'our thing' but you can't help but get caught up with the latest trends and tech.

Our rigid old Kona's have done the job for a while up to a few years ago when we decided to try out full sus.
We jumped on some short travel 'xc' full bouncers and found them great, but within a year or so we wanted to move up/follow the trend a little and ended up on some 160 rigs.
Myself riding an orange alpine. Don't get me wrong it was great, but sometimes for the local trails, just felt too cumbersome and i was always switching tyres to make sure i didn't have a heart attack climbing to the top.
(my fitness isn't amazing so always looked for an easier way to get by).

I was never fully settled so dug out the Kona and the fun just came flooding back. Ok on some of the more rooty down's I was having trouble seeing where I was going and suffering death grip with that nervous laugh, but getting the bottom I couldn't get rid of the smile.

I recently rode my brothers Focus Mares CX bike on the same loop and was marginally faster and gave me the same feeling as the Kona.

Because o f my fitness and the local trails, a 160 'Endure' rig is just too big and hard work so I myself have gone to a CX bike (plus the odd outing with the retro kona) as i find it perfect.

A lightweight XC machine I'm sure would give you the same enjoyment.
I just think it all comes down to fitness, local trails and what you want from the ride.

Its easy to follow the trend and be made to believe you need a big rig, but forget what others say/market.
Its just about getting out and getting that feeling of enjoyment we all get from riding bikes.

Sorry this has turned into an essay.

tony

Some very humble folks in this thread, refreshing to see.

I had a similar realisation a few weeks ago; I was convinced I NEEDED a long travel FS and was squirreling a bit of money away to pay for one.

While saving I thought about what to buy and realised that at least 80% of my riding is local loops straight from my door and a beefy trail FS would be overkill for our local woodland and bridleways.

I guess it was more about trying to be the type of rider I wanted to be, rather than simply accepting reality. We've 2yr old and 6mth old children so I really can't get away for a full day away every weekend to justify a posh aspirational bike purchase!

So, I've splurged my bike fund on a Parkwood 27.5 frame, a decent midrange Reba and some 2nd hand SLX/Raceface components.

Can't wait to get it built up!

I had an Orange Patriot LT back in the day, and when, recently, I was after a bike to have some fun on in the short space of time that I could fit in with a 2.5 yr old and a 0.5 yr old son, I got myself a Trek SuperFly 9.6.

It's light and straightforward. I've upgraded some stuff (shifters and brakes to XT, added a SuperStars carbon seatpost for a bit more give and got a good deal on some Mavic Crossmax ST from last year) and I love it. I'd love something that is today's equivalent of my Patriot but, to be honest, I can't afford (family-wise) to smash into a tree mid-air anymore (and yes, I have done in the past 😐 ). The superfly just ticks a lot of boxes, is really easy to keep in top form and is quite a lot of fun for an XC thingy 🙂

Funny, because my bandit is the most XC bike I've ever had...

This would be my everyday MTB if I had a truckload of cash lying around - Horsethief:

[img] [/img]

Newer XC geo isn't that steep - ha 69.5 on whyte 29c, scalpels, ASR-C and slacker on Czar. Still fun to ride, just a bit more forgiving. Unfortunately why I'll never own an Open.

M. O. N. S. T. E. R. C. R. O. S. S.

Is the big tide starting to turn back, I wonder?

This was the first big explicit push at this that I read:

[url= http://www.pinkbike.com/news/opinion-enduro-vs-trailbike-marriage-and-divorce.html ]Inadvertently, the trailbike also created the perfect launch pad for professional enduro racing. For a fleeting moment, “enduro” and “trailbike” were interchangeable terms, and initially, that marriage supercharged the technical performance of the basic trailbike. But, somewhere along the line, while bike and suspension makers rushed to stretch the trailbike’s performance further towards the downhill realm, we forgot that that the magic of a good trailbike is that it enhances all aspects of the riding experience. An enduro racing bike has a much more singular mission statement.[/url]

🙂

I've ridden my SS Scandal a couple of times in the last week having not used it much recently. My other bike isn't a mince tank gnarpoon, it's a Ti 456 with 140mm forks but there's enough of a difference between the two with the forks and different wheels. But anyway I'd forgotten how fast and how much fun the Scandal is. My local trails are fast woodland singletrack and the speed and sharpness of the Scandal are ideal. It's perfect for Glentress and a lot of my other local riding spots too, the only place nearby I'm better off with the 456 is Innerleithen. I would like a nice full suss for there but I can't justify another bike at the moment and it's more riding I need more than a new bike really.

I test rode a g150 a couple of years ago, absolutely loved it but at the time thought it's too much bike for just riding about.
The chap who was working for the shop told me would I be interested in a bike with similar geometry but shorter travel.
He then told me to wait a few months and whyte then unleashed the t130 and it's pretty much my ideal bike.

I have recently built up a Salsa Spearfish, currently absolutely loving it. It's fast and comfortable and actually really fun to ride. its now my go to bike, unless I am riding something a bit gnar. One thing I want to do though is slacken it out slightly. Sure it's an xc bike, but I like slightly slacker head angles. So I am toying with fitting an Angleset to it.

definitely wouldn't get a CX bike, if your coming from a 140mm+ ish MTB bike.

I brought a CX bike, to use as both a road + offroad bike. But I just converted it into a road bike. Now I've got a proper road bike and I'm about to sell it.

If you wanted something quick on the road as well as off road, then you'd be much better with a rigid 29er, narrow bars, very light tyres. (bontrager team issue 1 1.9s are good or maybe thunderburts).

Ie an early 90's MTB with all the latest gubbins.

There about a million times better than a CX bike off road.

But yeah lighter tyres.

You want a nice scandal 29er v2 frame. I just so happen to know where there's one going...!

@ sterns

I found that really interesting and can relate to a lot of what you are saying.

I have been riding mtb's since 1986 and offroad before that and kept riding my 90's bike for a long while. I tried different 'trends' and buying what was recommended from around 2008 till fairly recently. But something was always missing.

Then tried something 'different'* and really have got on with it. Still have other bikes I ride but I know which is first choice/go to.

*For [i]me[/i] it was a fatbike but I'm not trying to say that is right for others. Just that it's worth looking for what is right for [i]you.[/i]

I brought a CX bike, to use as both a road + offroad bike. But I just converted it into a road bike. Now I've got a proper road bike and I'm about to sell it.

If you wanted something quick on the road as well as off road, then you'd be much better with a rigid 29er, narrow bars, very light tyres. (bontrager team issue 1 1.9s are good or maybe thunderburts).

Ie an early 90's MTB with all the latest gubbins.

There about a million times better than a CX bike off road.

Pretty much the same experience and thoughts here. I've kept the cx as a general getting about bike though

rigid 29er, narrow bars

I found anything less than 660mm made the wheels feel too big and unweildy.

Ie an early 90's MTB with all the latest gubbins.

Exactly that. Same thing as early 90s with discs, big wheels and modern geometry. Fab (for me).

Anthem SX is exactly made for what you describe. I bought one after a Whyte t129 and really like it so far. Very capable xc with a little fun chucked in.

Exactly why I went for a trigger from Paul's over the Jekyll. Previously I'd had bikes like the Giant Reign X0-amazing on the few decent downhills I get to ride, but compromised elsewhere. I almost bought a Jekyll before realising that for the type of riding I do the trigger would be so much better. I wasn't wrong. It's so fast through the flowy singletrack that I ride and still more capable than I will ever be when things point downhill. Sooooo glad I didn't get the "bigger" bike. Despite the marketing telling me otherwise..

I think shorter travel, light, fast bikes are brilliant. You can have a light and very capable bike that is more suited to most riding. I think this is where modern tech developments have really helped, because you can have light and wide tubeless rims/tyres on a more XC oriented machine, along with light 120mm forks and a dropper, and a good mix of long, low, mildy-slack geo. There's now far less of a compromise between light/strong/cheap which helps.

As part of my prep for the Alps later in the year I've made a concerted effort to get out on my bigger bike. Whilst it's very competent I'd ride my stooge on most things I take it on and not be that much slower. For probably 85% of my riding I don't need the big bike, I do enjoy the 15% though.

If you're not faster on a big bike then you either live somewhere smooth or you're a mincer 🙂

I would love to have a go on the new carbon Kona Hei Hei.

Same awesome geometry as my Process 111 in a much lighter chassis and 100mm fork - a sign of the future for XC bikes or a evolutionary dead end?

[quote=molgrips ]If you're not faster on a big bike then you either live somewhere smooth or you're a mincer

steep & rocky, maybe.

everywhere else, no.

molgrips - Member

This would be my everyday MTB if I had a truckload of cash lying around - Horsethief:

The only thing wrong with the Horsethief is that it's not a Spearfish..

[URL= http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/weeksy59/Salsa/_57_zps5e62ae99.jp g" target="_blank">http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/weeksy59/Salsa/_57_zps5e62ae99.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

steep & rocky, maybe.

That's what I said - somewhere smooth.

This trail gets a bit steeper and very rooty a couple of hundred yards down the line. Hardly the Alps, but it's still about 3x quicker on the Patriot than this bike, and probably 2x quicker than on my 80mm XC bike.

[img] [/img]

I'm loving my spearfish at the moment. Its a fantastic bike. Perfect for 60% of what I do. Still love being back on my fatty or my Five mind! I have just ordered an Angleset from Superstars to fit it. Which will slacken the bike out to 69deg which is the same head angle as the newer ones. Hoping this will make things a little more forgiving on some of the downs. Without killing the fantastic climbing i'm enjoying on it currently. Next step will be to drill the frame for stealth dropper routing.

after owning 'bigger' bikes for a long time; and having recently moved to a new location with 2 small kiddies ( 2.5yrs and 6 months) I knew I needed to make the right purchase for a change and keep to it. after a lot of research and chatting to LBS etc. I settled on a 2016 Whyte T130s with pike fork upgrade. This is perfect for the moors and 3 monthly trip to BPW/Wales. Fast and fun when needed, with enough burliness for the reds and blacks in wales when required. not exactly an 'XC' bike though, more trail all rounder

Newer XC geo isn't that steep - ha 69.5 on whyte 29c,

This - have the 29C and it's perfect for where I live. Lighter, no hassle to keep on the track maintenance wise (even front mechs are fine on a double) and it can go as fast as I dare these days. Probably could go 5% quicker on a 100/120 full suss, but I suspect it'll just be a precursor to a more serious off. I like the feeling of speed everywhere on the hardtail, even if I'm not actually as fast if that makes sense. Think there has been tendency to pigeon hole carbon short travel hardtails as race bikes since full suss / long travel hardtails took over the majority of the market, but they are still more than capable for most of the country.

Funds are the limit here - however just figure out what your ride 90% of the time and buy accordingly.

100mm 29er, (CZAR) covers 90% for me.

The rest is sorted by a Flux for moderately chunky days and winter duties.

(Spearfish is/was a great choice too).

This trail gets a bit steeper and very rooty a couple of hundred yards down the line. Hardly the Alps, but it's still about 3x quicker on the Patriot than this bike, and probably 2x quicker than on my 80mm XC bike.

how can I argue against logic that that. I'm getting a patriot...

I have a Specialized Camber Evo Expert, 120 mm weighing in at 11,5 kg with light wheels and heavy tires. Expect it to weigh about 11 with race tires and wheels.

The ideal solution is to have a big bike AND a short travel one, obvs.

Patriot? GW does that on his road bike blindfolded while rolling a doobie.

I rented a SC Bronson for the weekend in the Sierra Nevada and found it to be an utterly hateful machine after my steel hardtail. The trails here are steep, rocky and challenging and I would have been far happier on my XC bike. Instead I had a heavy-ish enduro bike with a 66 degree head angle with a front wheel that wandered about and never went where I wanted it. I couldn't punch the bike up short technical climbs and downhill it just took all the nuance of line choice out of the equation. Plus it see-sawed around like a drunk thing. I hated it. I may not have been able to clatter into a rock garden at full speed on my Shand 29er but I would certainly have been faster and had more fun overall on it.

That's similar to how I felt with my Five. Going down or along, it was awesome. But get out of the saddle and sprint up a hill? No chance, felt like riding in treacle.

I grew up from starting mtb in the early 90s with (proper) XC bikes and now I've come back to the modern incarnation (Spesh Epic) I find my riding much better for it.

And I happily stuffed it down everything bar the blacks at BPW and it's still better than I am, so I have no fears on its capabilities.

Yes, I started mtb-ing late 80s on steel hardtail. There was nothing at Downieville (home of a famous DH race) that I couldn't have comfortably handled on my Shand - the trails were steep, technical, narrow. Maybe on a wide and fast Whistler-style DH with big jumps or drops I would have wanted the Bronson, but that's not my preferred type of riding anyway.

proper XC bike = short travel HT = fracking uncomfortable for us oldies!

nice, light, modern carbon 120mm 29er FS, job done. Fast, fun, capable, Up AND Down.......

stevenmenmuir - Member
it's more riding I need more than a new bike really

Someone talking sense!

maxtorque - Member
proper XC bike = short travel HT = fracking uncomfortable for us oldies!

I am forty...

maxtorque - Member
nice, light, modern carbon 120mm 29er FS, job done. Fast, fun, capable, Up AND Down.......

But that's what I'm on 🙂 Well, 100mm, but what's an inch matter?

Most trail and Enduro bikes, 130 - 160mm travel appear to be good all rounders these days - you can take em to BPW or Alps but you can ride them all day or through the fields to your local country pub. Same goes for your aggressive hardtails (though not as comfy on the rough stuff). If you want a comfy XC bike that can do trails well enough then a short 29'er or anthem style bike is where id be putting my money. If you want a nose down arse up XC bike, then hardtail, big wheels is what you need.

What's all this 'comfy' shite? If you want comfy, plant your fat ass on the sofa and drink beer... Otherwise, toughen up princess, get out the damn saddle, and ride!

The only good reason to get any suspension (front or back) is to go faster on the rough stuff. Not for 'comfort'!

What a joker. After 4 hours of rocky trails on my hardtail, regardless of fitness, I fatigue and struggle to keep up with friends on FS bikes. There is little respite, I have to be out the saddle on rough terrain and that takes its toll, sweet cheeks.

Thanks for the idiotic response you awesome person you.