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https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/at-my-wits-end-1x11-indexing-problem/
As per my previous post above..
Update... I found my original thread when googling this issue again, for the 20th time but it's closed so I'll continue to bore y'all on a new one.
Since my initial problem I've moved the same mech and shifter between 3 frames. All had the same issue with poor shifting between the lower cogs 11 and 8...
The first bike (On-One Bish Bash Bosh) was solved (mostly) by compensating for the friction from the poor cable route from the shiter by using a length of outer cable and then just faffing with other bits.
The second bike was a Mason Bokeh, better as it ran an outer all the way, but still not great being honest and it was always a nats whisker away from either shifting perfect in 1 direction or the other, never great in both. It really was on a knife edge of adjustment, any slight change and it was all out of sync again.
My third is a Carbonda CFR696 / On-One Free Ranger (Chinese open mold frame)
Same issues on this recent build, poor shifting in the lower few cogs. Full outer all the way and a descision if I want reliable shifting either up or down..
It's obvious either a design fault or local fault with my setup.
I feel it would be 100% solved if I could install a stronger spring in the rear mech to pull the cable slack stronger.
I'm going to try a new SRAM inner cable as I cannot guarantee the one from my cable box is Shimano or SRAM (SRAM is 0.1mm thinner I believe)
EDIT: the new cable seems exaclty the same colour (I though SRAM were black??) and visual width and has made not much difference, if any.
Did SRAM revise the Force mech or shifter at anypoint? Mine's an early set and I wonder if they have solved the problem.?
I have one of the first Free Rangers with SRAM Force and can confirm that it is very tetchy and just about anything can throw it out of sync.I have a full cable outer because I found the original wire dug into the plastic carrier under the bottom bracket.I have found that the chain plays a part,the original cheap one was not as flexible as more expensive hollow rivet chains,and any chain wear beyond 0.5 results in hanging gear changes.One bout of poor changing was down to the jockey wheels,tooth wear was fine but bearings were shot.
I am currently running a wipperman connex chain,hot wax lubricated,with Hope jockey wheels and have no immediate problems.
In short this is my first and last foray into the SRAM world,and will be going Shimano GRX when I can find and afford it.
You’re welcome.
Sounds familiar. I found that excess friction in the cable was the problem. I sorted it by slackly taping the outer cable to the bars at a less tight radius than the bars themselves (ie, a gap between the outer and the bars). It looked a bit odd until it was covered by bar tape. As above, I won't be using anything SRAM in the future if I can avoid it.
I missed you original thread, but sounds like you've been through exactly the same pain I went through:
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/planet-x-xls-internal-cable-guides-drill-em-out/
I ended up doing exactly what DJC75 says, and also switching to full length outers.
At some point I also switched to a Rival clutch 1x mech, rather than the original Force 2x mech, and since then I've not had any problems.
I assume the newer mech has a stronger spring in it, but I don't know if that's because it's a clutch mech, or because it's a newer design, or just luck of the draw.
Despite my best intentions to never touch SRAM again, my wife has also now got a somewhat newer SRAM 1x Rival CX bike, and the shifting on that is absolutely fine too.
My conclusion was that it's no one thing that causes the problem, but an accumulation of factors: lots of friction in the shifter, ridiculous cable routing out of the shifter, a weak spring in the rear mech, and in my case, stupid Planet X cable routing.
I bought a used Force 1x equipped bike that the previous owner never managed to sort out the shifting (I suspect he swapped to non-SRAM cables inners while trying to solve it). I then tried to sort by replacing cables (inners and outers) and then hanger - no joy. I then read about the "SRAM inners being thinner" thing so changed them for SRAM ones and finally got it working nicely.
So using SRAM inners worked for me. I also seem to remember the B-screw tension was critical and possibly not as SRAM recommended. I think going a lot closer to the biggest sprocket than they recommend worked better for me (like as close as you can go without it rubbing on the way up the block).
I’m firmly of the opinion that sram 1x gravel stuff (particularly the cheaper groupsets) is plastic tat. I had never ending problems. In the end replaced the bike with something Shimano equipped and it’s been a million times better.
I’ll never buy sram again.
I lessened the bend radius under the bar tape and installed a new SRAM inner cable this evening..
I'm on a nice 50 mile ride tmrw morning so lets see.
I've been impressed with the SRAM Force Hydro setup. Over 7000 gravel/dusty/mud miles and the only issue (all be it a fairly major one) is this shifting 'feature'. Ohh and the jockey wheels needing grease every 6 months, Ohh and the floppy brake leavers and the hood covers that are a little baggy.. Andy_Sweet, you're correct!
The end game is to go for an AXS setup to remove the cable problem I've been riding with for the past 5 years.. I recently installed one for a mates build.. An uber expensive Pinnerello Grevil build and I was darn impressed with the RED AXS wireless stuff.
That's not happening for a while yet due to me forking out for 2 new 11spd cassettes and the price, availability of components.
I've also noticed that on all 3 frames, the B-screw needed to be all the way out to get good shifts. If I screwed it in it only made shifting slower.
I have suffered the same thing with a Rival 1x rear mech. Ended up destroying a shifter on a sportive as a result of excess cable friction which was a very expensive 'fix'.
In reality, it's a piss-poor design and as above, I'll only buy Shimano after this.
The new inner cable and less bend radius at the bars didnt help much on yesterdays ride..
I've considered filing down the part that the B screw lands against, I still have 2cm of room between the cassette and top jockey and it's very clear that the further I screw this in, the worse the shifting gets, I cant help think that if I move the jockey wheel closer to the cogs, it might help my crap shifting.. But that involves taking a file to the rear mech.
SRAM recommend a 6mm gap, I'm way off even with the B-screw removed altogether!
Or start saving and waiting for an wireless setup..
I had the same with my rival 11 hydros
I used a flexible V brake noodle out of the shifter and then kind of toward the underside of the bar to lessen the curve.
Then outer cable to the stop.
This is all wrapped under bar tape so you can't see it.
Completely fixed it.
The v brake noodle is a bigger ID and more flexible than gear cable so vastly reduces the friction.
also check chain length (longer than you think) and b tension, do you have the little sram plastic thing for b tension?
That V brake noodle is an excellent idea.. Although I dont think it will work with Force shifters as the exit point is on top of the shifter and angles down and around.. Your Rival shifter looks like it exits on the side ?
I suppose I could use a tiny bit of outer to get around the exit angle, then in to the noodle, then to the main outer.
B tension, as my post above, I cannot get anywhere near the recommended 6mm.. I'm at 2cm with the B tension wound all the way out, removed the screw in fact.!
Chain length is per Park Tools measuring guidance for SRAM 1x, it's tight but I still have upwards movement in the mech in gear 1 (it's not fully flat)
Thanks for the ideas guys! It's great to hear I'm not alone (Googling proves that!) and even better to hear the hacks that I can try..