[Closed] Folding bikes for cycle touring - advice please!

I was at Cape Warath a few years back and a couple of guys showed up with bikes. They'd travelled from Lands End and one was on a Brompton. Moral? It's not the bike that matters.

However, you can get bikes with S&S Couplings that allow the frame to be split into two. If it's for occasional "splitting" you may find this is a better approach. Something like a Surly Travellers Check....

Sue, I can't stand the look of Moulton bikes, but each to their own.

I think what you're looking for is an Aernimal Chameleon - has bosses for front and rear racks. They don't have their own luggage - think they use Carradice.

24" sheels, fast, good handling, takes a few minutes to disassemble. Not cheap though.

I'd avoid a Brompton for anything other than short journeys; horrible twitchy things with cheap shoddy poor quality components and ridiculously overpriced; 'fashion accessories' for spods.

Second the Airnimal, if you want to do any serious distance comfortably. There are people who do long-distance touring on Bromptons, but then there are people who gain sexual pleasure from being beaten and abused and stuff. Do what you want in the privacy of yer own home by all means; please don't do it in public. It's unsavoury. 🙁

Karinofnine off here's got an Airnimal, and it and she are both lovely. 🙂

There are several Brompton owners on here, and well, they'll probbly turn up in a minute and I can rest my case. 😐
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There is a maximum folded size for a bike to be considered within allowed luggage dimensions and thus not need booking on. I think only Brompton and some of the other 16" wheel alternatives sneak inside that. You might be OK most of the time with bigger, but train companies seem to employ some of the most pedantic jobsworths going, and if the aim is to avoid train restrictions then it's worth bearing in mind.

Moulton don't "fold" but they can be pulled apart to be stuffed in a bag.

Any folder should be fine as long as the basic dimensions (between pedals, seat and bars) fit you OK. Main consideration for touring IMO is luggage provision - not all offer a decent way of carrying stuff.

Thanks guys.

Love surly bikes, but I struggle with sizing as I'm only 5'. The Airnimal chameleon looks like a good practical option - really like the hard case that converts into a bike trailer. I do think it looks a bit fugly though, but they seem to do it in orange which might be sufficient to redeem it 🙂

Elfin - do you know how tall Karinofnine is? Does the chameleon fit her well?

Something from Dahon perhaps? They fold up relatively small and should fit you well considering your height. I'm pretty sure I've seen a few references to people touring on Dahons somewhere on the interweb; most of their bikes can take a rack.

Probably not as nice a ride as an Airnimal but pretty decent little bikes.

Kof9 isn't much taller than you, Sue. I had a quick spin on it, and it din't feel like a 'folding bike' at all. Really nice quality feel to it.

I'm with elf, Bromptons wobble. I've got this, use it regularly, folds well, solid, fit loads on the rack and lots of bar bag accessories and the like to make it even more flexable.. Dahon Vitesse D7HG. FOlds well, fits in between seats on the train too. I've a carry bag for mine as well.

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This is Dahons Sports version, bit pricy mind, but does look nice, gives an idea of them folded too..

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Hold on - I'm just dishing my lunch up, I'll be back in a minute...

Right, I'm sorted lunch-wise. I have a Chameleon (thanks to Elf for kind words). I like it very much, I did a time trial on it (and got a good time), I rode a brevet populaire, I use it for commuting sometimes and for general road rides. It is a very nice bike to ride but I notice that after riding, say, the TriCross, I find the steering very quick on the Chameleon - this is something that you get used to within a few minutes though.

Folding: mine has a non-quick release steerer tube and funny handlebars so it doesn't fold as small as it could. That said, I have a groovy little purpose-made bag for it which disguises it. Also, the fork gets a bit scraped from the folding so buy the pads that Airnimal do.

I have carbon forks so no front panniers for me, but I could put a rear rack on if I wanted to - and it is perfectly possible to put a handlebar bag on.

I am 5'3" and it fits me perfectly, and there is lots of scope to fiddle with seat height/saddle position/stem length/type of 'bars.

Here's a link to the website: [url= http://www.airnimal.eu/News/Home.php ]Airnimal[/url]

They are based just north of Cambridge and are jolly nice folk, so if you're down this way you could pop in and visit.

HTH

I don't think the limit is as small as a brompton wheel - maybe 20inch.

The yellow Dahon is worth a look - when I was first looking at folders I found several stories of some woman who tours round Australia on one.

Steel frame as well I think.

Obviously my Birdy rides very well...

BikeFriday or something with S+S couplings would be my take on it.

Ritchey make a lovely coupled frame....! 🙂

Do Hewitt do one with the S+S couplings? Rourke's did a steel road frame with them. I'm sure someone would knock you up a tourer with the couplings for a price.

Mugsys, pretty much any framebuilder worthy of the name would make you one, so it's a case of pick your preferred supplier.

Rob Mather's stuff is lovely.

Ko9 - that's really useful. Thanks. Especially as my main touring bike at the moment is a tricross, so interesting to hear how they compare. Might pester you with more questions later!

It does seem as though there are a few options amongst the "off the self" models. Shops up here in Wales don't really do folding bikes, but I'm down in London in a few weeks - is there a recommended bike shop down there that would stock a few different makes for comparison?

mugsys_m8 and CFH - not sure what is meant by S+S couplings? Is it the same as what's on the surly traveller check? (ie splits a frame in two). And this can be done by any framebuilder? But obviously opens up a custom build option? (tries really hard not to think of a lovely ti tourer built exactly to fit ...)

Would it then just split in two? (rather than fold)

Sorry, my mistake! Yes, the couplings basically allow a bike to seperate at the frame, meaning you can fit it all in to a much smaller bag. Not folding exactly, but it's better than not.

Various possibilities:

Brompton are the most compact, and I can do you one with a Rohloff and disc brakes if you want a capable touring machine - panniers can be done but not so easily, and it won't have full suspension, but it'll be very small and still good to ride on long trips.

Birdy are full-sus alu-framed folders that aren't all that much bigger than Bromptons when folded, but can have 24 gears, good brakes, and can carry four panniers happily.

Airnimal Joey or Chameleon are both more dismantle-and-folders, so take a bit longer to pack away, but both ride very well - perhaps less suited to heavy touring, better with a couple of rear panniers.

Or can build anything you like with S&S couplings...

whilst i have done Lands End to John o Groats on my Brompton... (8days (110miles per day average) with only 4 gears and carry own stuff)...

so don't right them of and with a few parts changes they can be much improved - the 6 speed for example has quite a decent gear range

If I had to use a folder or separable with a few choice then I would go with:

Airnimal Joey - Nice bike which rides like a full size and if you do not have to fold often then it is ok

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quite a few london shops will have a Joey in stock tolook at such as bikefix and poss condor

[url= http://bicycletouringpro.com/blog/ultimate-bike-friday-new-world-tourist-review/ ]Darren Alff[/url] did a big review on a Bike Friday a couple off years ago.
His site is a great place to look for touring tips and he has loads of YouTube clips too.

Rohloff disc Brompton:

[url= http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6001/5979359224_00c30e1635_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6001/5979359224_00c30e1635_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/cycleologist/5979359224/ ]Rohloff Disc Brompton 7[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/cycleologist/ ]Ben Cooper[/url], on Flickr

[url= http://www.evanscycles.com/products/montague/swissbike-paratrooper-2012-folding-mountain-bike-ec027630?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=froogle&utm_campaign=froogle ]Montague bikes[/url]

If I was to buy another touring bike I think I'd look at this.

There's a blog somewhere on crazyguyonabike with a couple touring with these, front and rear panniers.

The USP of Dahons and Moultons is that they ride like a proper bike.

Depends what you mean by that - anything with smaller wheels has less inertia, so accelerates and steers differently, unless you're talking about one of the big-wheeled Dahons or a S&S bike. However, small wheeled bikes aren't necessarily worse to ride, just different.

If I had to own only one bike, it would be a Birdy - folds almost as well as a Brompton, but can be used for serious touring or forest tracks, and is very good to ride.

I've had enough of the ridiculous hoops you have to jump through to get a bike booked on a train

Strange, we've never had that. Turn up at station, buy ticket, wheel bikes and trailer onto train. Wait a while. Get off.

Ho-hum! 🙂

If I had to own only one bike, it would be a Birdy - folds almost as well as a Brompton, but can be used for serious touring or forest tracks, and is very good to ride.

+1

With the forward leaning stem, big tyres like big apples, a decent saddle, clipless peddles, and a stiffer elastomer (to overcome the extra bounce for the tyres) it rides exceptionally well and is a fast bike. It is a little more twitchy than a big wheeled bike but the fatter tyres are less twitchy than narrow marathons, for example, although a little more rolling resistence.

You can get an 'expensive' rohlhoff version or the touring version with and that sram 24 speed system. You can get disks or put lovely magura HS33s on it.

No comparison to the 'clown' bike ride of a brompton.

Don't forget that Dahon do some 26inch folders as well (Jack, Expresso, Matrix) - it depends on what size you need.

If coming to London you could also browse www.bikefix.co.uk, although bencooper looks like a one-stop-shop for your needs.

Seconded Airnimal. I have a Rhino 8 speed Alfine and it rides very well. Had a Brompton and rode it a lot, but it wasn't a "touring" bike. Where are you? You are welcome to come and try it out in Windsor.

Birdy would come close. Better fold but smaller wheels. I've never seen a Birdy go off road, but I have taken my Airnimal round Swinley. Bike Friday is the bespoke choice. Airnimal copied the trailer/suitcase.

Of course you should get to Bath railway station. Avon Valley Cycles are located underneath. I think they stock all but Birdys.

Some good info on folding bike touring http://pathlesspedaled.com/

I've been looking for a similar bike for a while.

I've got a Dahon 20" with the re-bar top tube and it's a great train-commuter and I've ridden it 10-12 miles when trains are cancelled, I'd not want to ride one for 60 mile rides or carrying bags though.

The Moulton looks ideal, I've not seperated one but it looks fairly simple. It's got plenty of touring credentials and the frame's great. The Airnimal was what made me first think about a travel-bike, the Moulton appeals to me as a bike geek.

What I really want though is a Ritchey Break-away Cross bike in Ritchey red white and blue. Slow folding, maybe too slow to be practical (anyone used one?) but it looks like the one I'd be most likely to ride on all day at the weekend as well as for train / plane travel.

Airnimal Rhino looks more gnarrr as well...

one more vote for S and S coupling on a nice steel bike.
I had an Airnimal and the harsh ride/twitchy steering didn't suit me but by all means test one as lots rave about them.

I'd second Airnimal. Take-apart traveling bikes rather than folders for commuting. The major benefit to using one if you are touring is they use fewer proprietary components than other folders so parts and repairs are easier to source if you are in the sticks. Bromptons and Birdys by comparison use all sorts of dedicated components like 17" wheels/tyres/tubes and 2 speed gears that you won't find in the nearest bike shop. Birdy parts in particular are a real pain the hoop to get hold of under any circumstances, let alone while you're on your hols.

I've never seen a Birdy go off road

That is exactly what I like about the Montagues. Best of both worlds - quick to fold with no need to dissassemble (aside from front wheel) and completely stock components based on a 26 inch wheel - I think it might make the ideal world traveller.

Many thanks everyone - great advice, links and recommendations. (STW is great!)

Tried to narrow it down to a couple to try and test ride first - and for what I want at the moment that seems to be the Airnimal Chameleon and the Bike Friday New World Tourer (that link to Darren Alft's travels is inspirational ...) and a moulton (probably the tsr30)

Next thing is to find somewhere that stocks them, which I can also get to reasonably easily. I'm based in North wales, but going to be in London in December and Edinburgh in January, so if anyone has any suggestions as to bike shops there that might have them, please let me know.

Bencooper - not sure where you're based?

djaustin - many thanks for the kind offer of having a go on yours. Not sure how close you are to London?

Oh, possible new bike excitement 🙂 (sorry bank manager, but needs must ...)

I like my Xootr Swift. Not to everyone's taste, but very adaptable as to how it can be set up. Not in Brompton territory for folded size, but for me a much better ride

I advertised mine a little while back and having been out on it again recently I'm glad it didn't sell.

I've used my airnimal joey on a fully loaded tour with my tent and a travelling guitar! Great to ride all day and easy to take on train. Cause of the fold, front fork swings under back wheel, I find it easier with a seat post rack and rack carrier with side panniers, also avoids any heel rub. Also use low riders. Love my Joey.

Glasgow 😉

Birdy parts have been harder to get hold of - I'm building up a stock of the more commonly needed ones. There aren't all that many really - tyres and tubes, catch for the swingarm (no big deal if that breaks anyway), catch for the handlebars (replaced one recently for a Canadian visitor who had a baggage handler incident). All the brakes and drivetrain, unlike on a Brompton, are standard parts.

A Bike Friday would be ideal for what you want, more emphasis on ride quality than simplicty/speed of fold - I bought a Pocket Sport earlier this year and it's so good to ride I use it as my main bike now. Can be built quite cost effectively into a light bike - in that respect beats the pashley moultons hands down.

One word of caution though from experince - as niche products hand built in the west, actually getting hold of a Bike Friday or a Moulton can be a frustrating experience requiring a degree of patience......

djaustin - many thanks for the kind offer of having a go on yours. Not sure how close you are to London?

Very. PM me - email in my profile.

Not really folding, but the Ritchey break away frames as mentioned by jameso are very neat indeed.

I built up one of their break away road frames for a mate - he did the marmotte on it this year, so I guess it works.

Ooh! Just had a ride on a Moulton - TSR 27. Absolutely lovely looking bike and incredibly well made (couldn't do that much stroking cos the bikeshop chap was watching!) Really comfortable to ride - just had a few minutes at the start when it felt quite skippy, but after that it just spun along and was really nippy. Fit was great - in fact at 5' I think I'm a perfect size for folding bikes, don't look half as silly as some massive chap perched on a long seatpost above tiny wheels 🙂

But - it was much heavier than I expected, about 13kg. And although it splits in 2, it doesn't do anything else to make it easier to carry. The thought of trying to manhandle 13kg of rather unweildly bike along with 2 panniers when shifting between trains doesn't fill me with joy.

So, does anyone know if the BikeFriday and the Airnimal area bit lighter and easier to move around with when they're in their 'folded' state?

djaustin - many thanks! Will e-mail you. Are you likely to be apperaring at the Festive London Pootle thing, maybe with your lovely folding bike 😉

Moultons, Birdys, Bike Fridays and Airnimals all really great choices but if budget is a consideration I wouldn't discound the Dahons... I've had a couple of them. A Speed D6 and a Jetstream P8 - both of which were used for commuting and occasional longer rides. They can cope with much more than you'd expect and like other posters have said they very much ride like "proper" bikes...apart from the funny looks from other folk! The D6 was actually my only bike for a while and I even slammed it offroad a few times! The Jetstream went like stink - used to drop roadies on expensive carbon bikes on a regular basis on my London commute (small wheels = great acceleration = great fun :D.

No rackmounts on the Jetstream though so for touring the Speed TR is the one to go for - steel frame, 24 speed and ready kitted out with 20" specific rackage

http://www.dahon.com/bikes/2011/speed-tr

Some deals on for this at around £600 currently... oh and the other thing with all decent folding bikes is that there is a really good resale market if you don't get on with them.

The one downside with folders for touring is however getting hold of the more niche parts - take spares of anything which is specific to the bike you bought.

Oh and be prepared for people to ask you about the bike everywhere you go... more people have shown an interest in the folders I've had than any of my MTBs.

I'll pick up my anorak and flask of lukewarm orange drink on my way out thanks...

I had an Airnimal Joey and loved it - rode virtually as good as a normal bike. Its not a commuter fold, but is quite light so easy enough to carry once folded into a bag.

My airnimal joey is about 11kg. Hooks nicely on my shoulder when having to go up stairs and weight distribution us balanced. I've built it in a number of configurations from sealed hub to deraillieurs and straight bars to drops. on road and off. Are you getting how much I like it. check the airnimal group Facebook pages out.

My Bike Friday Pocket Sport is a lot lighter than the TSR I used to have(which is why I no longer have a TSR...)

With the TSR there is no getting away from the fact that it's a steel full suspension frameset so you are going to pay a significant weight penalty.

I would guess my Pocket Sport to be about 20lbs. Its one of their cheaper framsets but it has got decent (ultegra/105) equipment on it.

Done some more researching - unfortunately the airnimal joey only fits folks who are over 5'3". That leaves the chameleon (suitable for 5'+), weighs in at around 10 - 11kg depending on spec.

But currently getting very excited (sorry, yes, sad I know 😳 ) by Bike Friday who do a special "petite" model called the Petite Crusoe for us tiny folks under 5'4". It's the equivalent of the New World Tourer, but lighter guage tubing etc, so comes in at a minisucular 6kg! Wow! And it looks great too 🙂

Something that "niche" is going to hurt my bank balance though, isn't it?

I think the Moulton will be off my list, but will go check out Dahon as well.

Am getting my anorak and flask at the ready 🙂

if your looking for a shop to try out a folder

Whites in Malmsbury are v helpful and have loads of Dahons, also have a look at AVC in Bath (just under the railway station)

Sue - I've done a lot of getting on trains with a touring bike - if you're booking a train in advance, use East Coast Express - you can actually book a bike there. Or get your ticket, then go to a (preferably small) railway station and ask for a bike reservation - they've never failed me yet, although one trip he struggled to get a booking, but gave me a printed A4 page that said bike reservation - when I got on that train it turned out there were also 4 others with bike reservations, so I reckon he somehow fiddled it!
Virgin trains are the only ones I've ever had any problem without a reservation though - all the others have been fine.
Having said all that, I do of course recognise your need for a new bike 😉

Thanks all. AVC in Bath do seem to be one of the best stockists for Bike Friday and Airnimal (not exactly easy for me to get to though!)

Lady G - I hear what you're saying, and a lot of the time I've had no problems on the train with my bike (especially locally). BUT (and its a pretty big but!), it has gone pretty badly wrong several times - not being able to travel when I need to cos there are no bike reservations left, trying to get on trains without a reservation and not being able to, and worst of all having a reservation, bike spaces all full, not being able to get on train, non-refundable ticket so had to pay an extra £50 for a new ticket!

I guess in the end, even though it only happens occassionally, the difficulty of trying to get my bike on a train has seriously disrupted my travelling. Add to that, the restrictions on getting into or out of London (often somewhere I have go to for work or to pass through to visit family) etc.

So for me getting a folding bike seems like a good solution, especially as it appears to be that you can get one's that are as good as 'normal' bikes. Plus I'm trying to be a bit more envionmentally responsible, and get the train for travel in the UK and Europe (rather than drive / fly).

But justifications aside .. hell yes, it gives me the perfect excuse (ahem sorry 'need') to get a new bike 🙂

Built one of these up as a road going hybrid for a mate earlier this year, had to use rigid carbon forks, XT groupset & Ritchey WCS finishing kit to get it around 10 to 11kg though & it is a bitch to release the spring tensioner wire before you can fold it - ended up using a ratchet strap to release the pin each time. Worked out about £1300 all up I think & he says it rides really well.

http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FRSLFTMTB/slingshot_fold_tech_mtb_frame

The s&s couplings are great (and expensive) but used more for bikes being packed up for plane flight rather than folding to get on a train etc

Wow, are Slingshot still going? I've got Jo Burt's old one handing up in the workshop waiting for a spare day to build it up 😉

Theres a few Dahon 26" folding frames on ebay, might be worth a look?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DAHON-JACK-FRAME-FORK-SET-/220898962634

I thought about getting one for commuting.

I've had the yellow Dahon Speed Pro and it was great, massive range of gears and super fast. I'm not sure how well it'd cope loaded up with touring gear though! Also, it was just outside the size range for commuting trains (pretty much everything is apart from a Brompton!).

Wow, are Slingshot still going? I've got Jo Burt's old one handing up in the workshop waiting for a spare day to build it up

seems so.. it is like they keep thinking up new and diverse benefits to their system... horrible things

Sue the TSR moultons are heavy as they are the cheaper non custom moultons made by pashley..

also do this one - Bridgestone Moulton - but seems these are had to get - though a few years Evans sold them:
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also sahem there are limited no dealers for Pacific (understood they make Airnimal frames).. they have this model the Reach.. runs on 20" wheels and thus easy to get a wide range of tyres

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think really your best bet would be an Airnimal Joey - a number of shop sin London have these - good all round in terms of features, foldability, cost, ride (as this is coming from a die hard Bromptoneer!) ride is a bit more relaxed than the chameleon (well imho)

Joey used for touring
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this guy has written about using his Joey
http://philwigglesworth.net/BlogEngine.NET/post/2007/02/08/The-Airnimal-Joey.aspx