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I havent read the article or the thread. But the answer is:
If you want to go as fast as possible then use SPD's
If you want to have as much fun as possible then use flat pedals
I havent read the article or the thread. But the answer is:If you want to go as fast as possible then use SPD's
If you want to have as much fun as possible then use flat pedals
No it isn't
No it isn't
Where's your proof?
Where's your proof?
Wheres yours?
Road cyclists and bmx riders.
Same.
Though I can tell you I experience no difference in fun on a road bike or on a bmx. Maybe I have more fun on a road bike actually as I seem to ride that a lot more than BMX these days. Also I used to rid/race dh on flats. I now ride just epic xc rides in clips and I prefer riding clips and going down tech descents in clips etc.
So I would say the type of pedal you have has no bearing on the fun.
Pity. This thread has been good reading until now, with some interesting views discussed.
I jump back and forth depending on what I'm feeling like. I had run purely SPD on all bikes, until getting into uplift/DH/Mega stuff a few years back, and really wanted to work on my skills at the same time. So, switched over to flats on most of my bikes. Over the last few years, I've been seeing more and more guys running SPD at regional DH races, but I've stuck to the flats out of habit mostly.
I hate spd for releasing when not expected, and they are also a PITA for getting back into once that happens, but the further forward position (for those that have not read the article) is something that has got me thinking about switching back and forth a little more, even on my DH bike.
If you want to go as fast as possible then use SPD's
If you want to have as much fun as possible then use flat pedals
But what if your fun is going as fast as possible?
I'm not sure I agree with everything RC says in that article, but the power metrics from Lee's article are interesting and make compelling reading.
I think the thing about clips or not is it's a matter of preference - racing or no, conditions, what you like, etc etc.
Nico used flats from time to time to great advantage when the tracks/conditions were in their favour
as a long term flats rider i think switching to (mainly) clips has made me a better rider when i do use flats again. more confident.
to be fairl though my first few rides on clips i was scared. then i realised i forget what i`m riding on when it gets interesting so either are good. clips definately better for pedalling for me.
flats for fun. clips for fast.
I really don't get this "Flats for fun" point. I can have fun riding both.
Flats for dicking-about and clips for getting agro-on-yo-ass!
Cool - cheers.
Was thinking of giving flats a try on the new bike for the winter at least - so will give it a proper go!
I think 'flats for fun' sells clips short! Many of those I ride with are on clips and they don't appear to be having less fun...
I like Lee's deeply geeky approach to the whole thing - it actually sheds some useful light. Wish I could spin that fast (or ride that well in general)!
You do realise the guy who wrote that isn't the 'cunny' who commentates with Warner / writes for dirt don't you?
Hes some american guy who happens to share his name
Each to their own. I ride clipped in, prefer it. If you want to ride flats, go ahead.
Agreed. The only thing they restict you with is messing around with feet off tricks on the step up and moving them onto the proper jumps. My idea of fun is being fast so they make perfect sense to me. You can still stick a foot off whenever you want in a corner (but you tend to do it less and commit instead) and do whips and tables in the air so I don't why people say flats for fun. tbh, after speaking to several haters the only reason they're haters is because they don't think they could ride clipped in without screwing themselves up...I think 'flats for fun' sells clips short!
I've just put SPDs back on my Pitch after a good few years of using exclusively flats. Despite having used SPDs quite a bit a few years ago I still made all the classic schoolboy errors, much to the amusement of my friends.
At Grizedale yesterday: nearly came a cropper straight away doing wheelies in the car park, 5 mins later fell off a stone causeway bit at it's highest point, failed to unclip and landed on my elbow/knee in a stony bog, still clipped in. Then a bit later I tried to stop and have a rest on a climb and failed to unclip and went over with my bike on top of me, still clipped in. 😳
Despite all that, I think I like them - I also do think my riding/pedalling technique has improved massively from riding flats. I felt like I was powering up climbs way more than usual, and didn't feel sketchier downhill at all. I do like having a bit more of a platform on the XT trail pedals in case you can't quite get clipped in straight away. I'll probably still go back to flats for uplift days, but for most XC type stuff I reckon I will stick with the SPDs.
I'm putting my clips back on NOW!
Hmmm....
It seems that people who ride flats and then try clips suddenly discover that they can power along.....but attribute this to their prior use of flats....rather than the new pedal system they are using.
Bit like walking around in flip flops, putting running shoes on and claiming that the use of flip flops has made them faster.
It seems that people who ride flats and then try clips suddenly discover that they can power along.....but attribute this to their prior use of flats....rather than the new pedal system they are using.
Bit like walking around in flip flops, putting running shoes on and claiming that the use of flip flops has made them faster.
If you look more into this you'll see that the best examples are those who've gone clips-flats-clips. It's much more like running in running shoes, then learning to run barefoot, then going back to running shoes.
[i]If you look more into this you'll see that the best examples are those who've gone clips-flats-clips. It's much more like running in running shoes, then learning to run barefoot, then going back to running shoes.[/i]
Still the same analogy; faster/more power/betterer(?) with clips/running shoes...
I'm not into arguing clips are better than flats, but the message seems to be that clips are favoured even by flats riders?
I just cut out the middle man!
Hmmm....It seems that people who ride flats and then try clips suddenly discover that they can power along.....but attribute this to their prior use of flats....rather than the new pedal system they are using.
Bit like walking around in flip flops, putting running shoes on and claiming that the use of flip flops has made them faster.
Nope, as chiefgrooveguru said.
I'm not into arguing clips are better than flats, but the message seems to be that clips are favoured even by flats riders?
I reckon using flats taught me to:
- Pedal more smoothly
- Keep my feet on during rough bits by weighting the bike properly
- Jump/drop off things without my feet coming off due to better technique
- Move the bike around more without relying on 'dragging' it with the SPDs
Going back to SPDs just means I can do most of those things more easily (plus enjoy the benefits of more power), but from a basis of the good technique learnt on flats.
Eventually I suspect I might get lazy again with some of these things and a period of going back to flats will be useful. And as I said I will still use flats for uplift days on scarier terrain.
All but the last point are what clips do anyway!
Each to their own; I do wonder about the claims made for flats, I'm sure they have an impact, but I'm not convinced by the size claimed.
Still the same analogy; faster/more power/betterer(?) with clips/running shoes...
How is it so hard to understand?
Like driving cars with/without/with ESP. Recording most instruments with/without/with compression. Navigating with/without/with GPS. Etc... Removing the aid helps develop other skills which subsequently improve the use of the aid.
Hmmm, still unconvinced.
Using the aid makes you better at the task while using the aid. Specificity, see?
Shooting a bow and arrow doesn't make you a better shot with a rifle.
I'm out; don't want to spoil the thread by being contrary, I'm just less convinced.. 😀
All but the last point are what clips do anyway!
Nah you're not getting it. If you can pedal in a smooth motion without the SPDs, you're in a better starting place than just having always relied on the SPDs to do it for you. Same for your feet staying on in rough stuff, jumps, drops, bunnyhops etc
Mind you, I've actually tried both quite extensively and clearly you haven't, so I'm not sure what you're basing this on exactly. 🙂
Shooting a bow and arrow doesn't make you a better shot with a rifle.
What about driving a car with manual gears, and no ABS, traction control etc - can you see how that might teach you core skills that would come in useful when you get in a fancy new automatic with the latest tech?
TBH SPDs are a bit of a skill/fitness compensator - but I'm quite happy with that, knowing that I don't need them to ride my bike. 😉
Last contribution; I rode flats for 14 years, then toe clips for 2, then spds for the rest.
I'm keen on the idea that the way to get the best out of any equipment is to use it and learn with it and explore its limits and advantages and disadvantages. Some techniques are transferable, but the way to get the best out of clips is to ride clips in my opinion.
Bikejames = opinionated but not always right.
If you like clips, ride clips, if you like flats, ride flats, difficult aye 🙄
I ride flats because -
.I've done so on my BMX for 13 years before taking up mtb.
.I am quite dynamic on my bike, manipulate it with shifting body rather than pushing with the limbs, my feet end up in some interesting positions on the pedals.
.I use thin floppy shoes to feel where i am on the pedals to aid in shift in body weight, i also feel the front end breaking loose in my feet before my hands
.I like the casualness of bikes, the less kit i have that feels different to casual clothes, the more relaxed i feel on a bike, the more i enjoy it.
I don't ride SPDs because -
.They scare me
.Lack of feedback
.I dont worry about 1000ths of a second, there are other areas I (im sure other too) could make up significantly more time.
SPDs are good because-
.They pedal well
.Keep your feet positioned well in the rough
.Available in weatherproof formats
I am also one of these that believes you should spend significant time on a shonky 100mm hardtail with flats, get skills dialled, before moving on to skill compensators, surviving and developing bad habit.