[Closed] First strike last night

You hit a pedestrian on a pedestrian crossing? And it's [b]their[/b] fault?

+ for ourkidsam's comment above.

It's a [b]pedestrian[/b] crossing, meaning you have to slow down and/or stop to allow them to cross.

Slow down. It's not a race.

Erm the light was green...

In that case, it is not a pedestrian crossing.

You still should have been able to control your speed, though, IMO.

i knocked a few people over when i was a courier. i always made sure they were ok before doing one.

Dunno, but there's a bloke over on pedestriantrackworld looking for one of these;

[img] [/img]

Do you cycle at 6mph everywhere waiting for stuff to jump out at you Flashheart?

"You still should have been able to control your speed, though, IMO. "

EVER!

Speed has two settings on or off:+)

Got hit by a pedestrian in the car once. Stopped at a cross roads to turn left, waited a moment and BANG theres a bloke on the bonnet.
Where he was looking i don't know.

It would be sensible to slow down were pedestrians are likely to be i.e. at a crossing.

No, I just ride within the limits of what is in front of me. Much as I drive a car within the limits of what is in front of me. Much as I walk, sail, etc.

It's called common sense and not being an arse.

Speed has two settings on or off:+)

Erm, yeah. Whatever makes you feel like a big man.

You still should have been able to control your speed, though, IMO.

While I agree with this sentiment to some extent, it it not always practical.
I used to commute along Southall high street and the amount of people who would be walking along it and then suddenly turn and just step onto the road was ridiculous. It is always busy with lots of loading/unloading so the edge of the road is 'generally' a safe bet for pedestrians, hence they just used to step out.

To have ridden at a speed that would have allowed me to stop in time for every potential 'person walking out' would have reduced me to little more than walking pace....why should I do that because these people can't be bothered to look?

In the end I decided to ride further from the kerb, which made it harder for traffic to get past but meant less chance of pedestrian collisions...

OK I thought the ones with flashing lollipop lights were called Pelican crossings and those with traffic lights pedestrian crossings. It was one of the latter (what's the proper designation?):

[img] [/img]

I was probably doing 15mph on approach, a few folk started walking out but saw me and slowed or stopped...blokey in question was behind them anddidn't and I didn't spot this until the last second at which point I gave a good shout and sloed to maybe 5-7mph.

I've said it before: if I rodein a way to avoid every possible collision like this my commute would take twice as long. I already ride defensively and this is the first ped I've hit in 25 years. Pedestrians have responsibilties too.

the same nearly happened to me recently, the ped just stepped out on a pelican crossing, against the lights.
i managed to swerve avoiding her, but stacked into the central railings

didnt see her turn to cross till it was too late, only doing 10-12mph i guess but riding on the tops (as opposed to hoods/drops) in the time it took to move my hands it was all over.

Ha ha Southall highstreet, happy days. I commuted along the Uxbridge Road for years and it was the only place on my route where I would spend more time looking at pedestrians than traffic, although this may account for why I twice got hit by cars in the area, once while stationary at a set of traffic lights.

Ha ha Southall highstreet, happy days. I commuted along the Uxbridge Road for years and it was the only place on my route where I would spend more time looking at pedestrians than traffic

Yes, exactly. One eye on the pavement, one on the road. I commuted from Hayes (far end of Yeading Lane) into Southall and onto the industrial estate behind the station. For my sins I had the joy of doing a 6 month work placement at the Spiller's pet food factory while at uni....Mmmmmmm.

A woman walked backwards into the road in front of me this morning as I was riding back from dropping my daughter at school.

She couldn't bear to break eye contact with the person she was talking to long enough to see if there was any traffic coming.

I thought I restrained my self quite well with just a panicked 'Whoaa!!!' as I put the brakes on.

She did say 'sorry' but only after saying good bye to the other person.

Do you think winding El cap-pee-tan up will ever grow old?

Its like having a big flashing red button with press me written on it.
I mean, you've got too?

Having spent two weeks teaching people to drive bus / minibus / trailers around Perth, I now refer to pedestrians as 'lemmings'. One stepped out on a clear street, a vehicle length in front of white transit and 2.5t box trailer, covered in orange logo's, pictures and lights on, and as the learner squealed to a halt a few cm from them, they had the b*lls to have a go at us...
Darwins law sometimes in this life.

Sounds like just an accident to me.

So long as both parties are Ok, thats what really matters, I suppose.

If you can learn anyting from the accident, then apply your experience and use it to revise your riding, then its not a total loss.

If the light at the Ped xossing was green for road traffic, then you were right to be cycling through, and, I think the Ped should have been paying more attention, while crossing the road on a red light for them.

Peds stepping off the pavement is a problem for cars and bikes, once in 25 yrs seems a good statistic, lets hope it turns out to be once in a lifetime.
😉

I've not [i]collected[/i] a ped yet, and hope I never do.

teh Al wrote:

I hit my first ever ped last night

Dinnae worry aboot it- they deserve all they get, filthy ****ing deviants.............. 😮

[i]She did say 'sorry' [u]but only after saying good bye to the other person.[/u] [/i]

😯

but you should have had a bell 😆 🙂

I once got a 'yoof' on a skateboard. I was on a clearly marked 'cycles only' cycle path when he skated out right infront of me. He went quite a distance as we impacted, but he was fine and even apologised 😀

Given the pedestrian mayhem of the area it is strange that I never had a pedestrian impact in Southall. Clobbered one ped on Holland Park Avenue and one in Acton. Both were unexpected step outs by the pedestrians, no pelicans or zebras were involved in either incident and no one was seriously hurt.

Al - you don't deserve a sticker on your top tube as it was clearly an accident. I hit a walker on purpose on Mont Cherry in 1996 and a mate knocked a ned to the floor in Glasgow with a punch as he rode past.
must try harder 😉

Worst thing was the 2 kids she was walking to school who'd been waiting at the edge of the pavement with her both stepped out as she did 'cos they were following her lead. I think if I'd been in the car it might well have resulted in someone getting knocked over.

Did you or the ped get hurt despite there being no damage? There’s a ped crossing in balerno which always scares me as the lights change v quickly and peds walk out instantly without looking and I can be doing 25mph at that section and stopping in a split second isn’t going to happen!

pwned by GW...life was ever thus 😀

DGOAB you need to be doing less than 25mph at those lights!

Talking of skateboarders...when I worked in teh Bicycleworks there was for a few weeks a dodgy paving slab outside the shop. Everytime you heard a skateboard coing down the street everyone would rush to the window to watch him hit the kerb, stop abruptly and do a superman. Happy days...

I hear the shop did atrocious work though.

Driving through Southall is like a scene from a zombie film! I have never seen so many people wandering aimlessly about, whatever the time of day or night!

I flattened a kid in the middle of Camberley once, on a motorbike. It was a quiet 125cc bike and I was filtering up a one way with cars parked both sides. The 'moving' cars were stationary, so 3 lanes of parked cars, if you think of it that way.
This lad (About 10-11 years old) just suddenly ran out between the cars to my right. I saw him coming, I was just slowly filtering and there was absolutely bugger all I could do about it. IIRC I'd [i]just[/i] managed to hit the brakes as I hit him. He measured his length between the cars I was passing. I stopped in just over a bike length after hitting him. His dad was very apologetic and I was mortified, even though there was no fault of mine. It all worked out fine after a brief chat.... He had a bloody great big graze up his leg from my front wheel and skinned hands.
I doubt he'll do that again though...... 😕

I guess I'm trying to say that sometimes you just cannot account for everything, whatever you do

Al - were you riding in your usual close in to the gutter position? Riding further from the kerb gives you much more time to react in this situation. One of the reasons I do. Basically the ped has to make a step and a half to get in your way not half a step - so you have longer to react.

Always adopt the primary position where there are hazards. Pedestrians even on a pavement are hazards.

From previous debates you do not use defensive riding - you ride far too near to the kerb. One of the basics of defensive riding is to ride out from the kerb.

While legally it is his fault I would consider it to be my mistake if I hit a ped in this situation as I had not been riding defensivly.

Edit - where you covering your brakes - another basic element of defensive riding

Sorry to rain on your parade Al but if he was unhurt, then it's not a "confirmed Kill" next time don't slow down to make sure he stays down 😉

Just thank god you were not in a car.

If no one is hurt, then it is just a minor accident. Sounds like the ped was at fault, but whatever we all think of our own infallibility, we can all have a dozy moment and end up walking without looking. This especially happens in a crowd where you are 'going with the flow' - sounds like this guy did that.

Edit - where you covering your brakes - another basic element of defensive riding

Personally, I think aggressive riding works better. Stay loose and look out if control and people get out of your way! 🙂

TandemJeremy - Member
Al - were you riding in your usual close in to the gutter position? Riding further from the kerb gives you much more time to react in this situation. One of the reasons I do. Basically the ped has to make a step and a half to get in your way not half a step - so you have longer to react.

Always adopt the primary position where there are hazards. Pedestrians even on a pavement are hazards.

From previous debates [u]I have assumed that[/u] you do not use defensive riding - you ride far too near to the kerb. One of the basics of defensive riding is to ride out from the kerb.

While legally it is his fault I would consider it to be my mistake if I hit a ped in this situation as I had not been riding defensivly.

Edit - where you covering your brakes - another basic element of defensive riding

Who says I wasn't riding defensively? I like how you always assume I'm at fault.

And like I said I slowed when I saw the guy wasn't stopping...so yes I was covering the brakes.

Al - do you ride out from the kerb? In the past you have said you do not. Its a basic element of defensive riding. Unless you adopt the primary position at hazards then you are not riding defensively

How far were you from the kerb when you hit the ped?

Just before christmas 2009 I hit a woman on Waverly Bridge. I was coming from the east end of Princes St and had been waiting at the lights, they turned green and I rode round the corner in the middle of the lane, to a road full of people, being closley followed by a Sprinter van. After some loud shouting and maybe a little swearing (a lot of volume was required due to teh funfair in the Gardens), most people either dashed on or stepped back except this lady who paused, stepped back then scuttled forward directly into where I had moved to try and avoid her. Even though I was going very slowly I still collected her and went over the bars. Luckily for us both the van stopped short of my back.

I threw my bike off me, got up, asked if she was ok and offered a hand to help her up. She didn't utter a word, just got up and walked off. I got to chat two of Lothian and Borders finest, who had sort of seen what had happened from the roof of teh Princes Mall. They were actually very good and only took a statement in case she later tried to accuse me of anything. While I was talking to them at least two other people that had seen it came up to ask if I was ok and tell the cops that it was definatly not my fault, which was nice!

Oh dear - I really need to get better at being more succinct with my postings! 😀

On my old commute there used to be a section where pretty much the only way to ensure you didn't hit a pedestrian was to not ride.

Contraflow cycle lane adjacent the pavement, pedestrians walk facing direction of motorised traffic so completely unaware of cyclists and step diagonally out in front of you to cross the road, often when cars were coming along the road, treating the cycle lane as some sort of special pedestiran waiting to cross area. Didn't leave anywhere to go really. You can't ride out from the kerb in this instance as it puts you into oncoming traffic.

Blimey there are some heros on here.

When I did my motorbike test they taught the moped group to stick into the kerb as it was safer (cos they were so much slower than other traffic) to be out of the way. So being closer to the kerb was defensive riding.

No amount of technique will ever prevent you from hitting someone who just steps out in front of you.

Cynical-Al - you deserve the sticker 🙂

Dr RS - utter rubbish. Defensive riding is to ride out from the kerb - motorcycling schools have been pulled up for that before

Walking pace is around 1.5 m /s Ride 30 cm from the kerb you have 0.2 seconds to react if a ped steps off before they are in your path. Ride 1.5 m where you should be then you have a second - and your field of view is wider so you can see then earlier.

That's the difference between hitting them and not. Good technique and road positioning gives you more time

Er TJ, don't shoot the messenger. That is what a proper riding school was teaching.....

1 second! So, in 1 second you can have analysed the situation and either swerved (probably then hitting something else) or braked?

If you can than I bow to your greatness. But somehow I doubt it.....

The only pedestrian I have hit was a man who stepped into my path giving me no time to brake.

He was blind. 😳

OMITN needs the sticker more than me 😀 I'll go for a wheelchair user next!

TandemJeremy - Member
Al - do you ride out from the kerb? In the past you have said you do not. Its a basic element of defensive riding. Unless you adopt the primary position at hazards then you are not riding defensively

How far were you from the kerb when you hit the ped?

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, I just don't blindly follow advice from you, IAM or whoever.

When I ride close to the kerb there is generally lots of space on the road for me to be overtaken safely and few pedestrians or traffic lights.

I'd guess I was 6-8 feet from the kerb when I hit the ped. Do I get your approval?

The one I was --><-- that close to taking out was the local lollipop lady! You'd have thought at least they might look both ways properly. Nope! Just a cursory glance to see if there was any motorised traffic, and stepped in front of me with about 2 bike lengths max. to put in an emergency stop and swerve.

I'd guess I was 6-8 feet from the kerb when I hit the ped. Do I get your approval?

Sounds more like it. How on earth did you hit him tho as then you would have a second or two to react.

I'd guess I was 6-8 feet from the kerb when I hit the ped. Do I get your approval?

was he running???

He was comin from the other side. I only realised he wasn't stopping too late. All the other peds were stood in the street slowing or waiting for me. He kept going.

*waits for TJ to say he would have avoided it or it could have been avoided*

dirtygirlonabike - Member
Did you or the ped get hurt despite there being no damage? There’s a ped crossing in balerno which always scares me as the lights change v quickly and peds walk out instantly without looking and I can be doing 25mph at that section and stopping in a split second isn’t going to happen!

There's only one light controlled junction in Balerno and if you're doing 25mph through there then you've worked out an interesting route to avoid the potholes.

cynic-al - Member
He was comin from the other side. I only realised he wasn't stopping too late. All the other peds were stood in the street slowing or waiting for me. He kept going.

If you'd been riding nearer the kerb, you'd have had more time to react.

HTH

[b]I only realised[/b] he wasn't stopping too late

My point made If he was coming from the other side you have even more time to see him and react but you did not for whatever reason

AS I said above legally his fault but If I hit a pedestrian under those circumstance I would know and accept I had made a mistake.

One crucial thing is to learn from these incidents.

Al, Teej - are you two a married couple ?

Cynic-al
"managed a shout and to slow down befor I hit him, so no damage, but a full-on impact?"

Don't think you were responsible for the accident at all, you can't plan for everything and one thing you definately shouldn't have to plan for is people wandering across a crossing when it's at red. Buuuuut, without going all STW Armchair Crash Detective, how did you have time to shout and slow but not just ride round them?

On scooters... When I did my cbt proper defensive positioning was drilled into us from the word go, we weren't allowed on the road til we'd been taught the basics of controlling your lane. Not surprised to hear that some schools would recommend bad road positioning for peds, but it's disappointing. Some schools are awful and CBT-specialists seem worse since they're catering largely for teenagers and couriers/delivery riders.

A mate of mine did his CBT, rode for 2 years and had a string of crashes, went back to do his refresh and crashed 5 minutes into the carpark training, breaking his hand. The school passed him. Possibly because they charge £90 for a first attempt, £20 for a resit.

TJ, I'm constantly amazed how, without being anywhere near the incident, you always seem to know more about accidents that happen to other people than the actual people involved.

It's a good trick - how do you do it? 😉

how did you have time to shout and slow but not just ride round them?

I guess I either froze doing that or didn't have enough time/headspace to change direction.

I accept it could have been avoided, it was one of those "he has seen me, everyone else has, hasn't he?...oh no he hasn't" moments.

cynic-al

I accept it could have been avoided,

❓

[i]I accept it could have been avoided,[/i]

which is why it's just an accident not an assault, I guess.

When I did my motorbike test they taught the moped group to stick into the kerb as it was safer (cos they were so much slower than other traffic) to be out of the way. So being closer to the kerb was defensive riding.

Well they were teaching them wrong! The 2 mopeds I took my CBT with were both told "You are doing the speed limit, so get into the middle of the road or you'll just be cut up all the time. It's your bit of road, so use it"
Words to that effect anyway. I still cringe when I see a moped riding near the gutter....

Defensive riding is to ride out from the kerb

What if you're taking a right hand bend then TJ? You [i]should[/i] know the answer to that.... 🙂