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Expect it isn't, I appreciate you might not want to admit it to yourself but in a country where 60% of the population are over weight or obese, ebikes and the generously proportioned go together like pie and chips.
My mate is worse. He’s considerably quicker than me downhill and if he catches me, sits a couple of yards behind, making cutting remarks about my line choice.
That’s like my 16 yr old lad who is now a cracking rider but gives me a full debrief after every run on my poor technique, line choice etc.
Anyway, I just clicked buy on a Trek Powerfly 9 LT from Evans. £5250 down to £3750 then another 5% back through Quidco.
Ganic, let me know if you fancy getting out for a ride, I’ll give you a head start while I get a full English down my neck.
As for the buzzing it actually happened. Matey cock womble came flying up behind, hit the rear brake to skid/let me know he was there then when young nephew had a bit if a stutter on a rooty section seconds later he caught my rear tyre. That's when he got the aforementioned **** off tablet.
Sad as I may be, I dropped the swinnerton bike shop a quick email about it this morning as it pissed me off that much. They responded straight away and were as dismayed about it as I was, and assured me they would carry on making it clear to the hire fleet users that courtesy on the trails was paramount. Fair play to them for that.
Me and laddo are out local Wednesday and we'll be lucky if we see a single person let alone a knobbish rider so that'll do us.
ebikes and the generously proportioned go together like pie and chips.
Probably all the free tablet. Will there be more on Wednesday night?
Or, ganic fudge?
Or, ganic fudge?
Chapeau 😏
No, he's right. I am the entire eBike community, although I'm not a fan of pie and chips. Curry is more my thing.
Benidorm bicyclists.
Got passed by an ebike on the Marin trail yesterday - bloke asked very politely if I minded him nipping past on the outside - no problem all very civil. I was also passed by a number of other riders (since I’m quite slow and unfit by mtb standards) - again everyone was very polite - maybe I’m just lucky 😊
But buzzing a strangers tyre is the height of F-whittery & you do it to me & you won’t do it again! You & your bike will get launched off the trail!
First rule of life: Don’t be a dick.
Internal dissonance much?
On the singletrack climbs, I was constantly pulling off the trail as I had someone on an ebike sat on my back wheel.
Yep but I have to do that anyway when I'm pedalling a 160mm travel bike and other fitter people are on a light XC HT. Then the whole thing reverses on the DH...
I think most of this is merely lack of awareness, my least fav thing e-bike riders do is stop on a technical climb forcing me to stop then speed off ... but I doubt they considered that's really unpleasant when I have to try and get moving again...
However you see the same sort of behaviour from people on normal bikes.. people stopped who then decide they are going to move off as you approach .... or the ones that after someone did move off before you and you're waiting for them to get a decent head start some other nob decides to go in front of you.
I can't really see a big difference to e-bikes... plenty of people seem to want to crawl down a slight DH section you would be hoping to take momentum from then get to the bottom and push up the single track climb ... especially at trail centres.
#trailcentrelife
I was at Cannock on Sunday with the lad doing the Dog and the Monkey from about 10am onwards.
We had no issues with ebikers to be honest. I generally ride behind the lad and tell him to pull over at an opportune and safe moment to let people pass. Every person we met was happy to wait until this moment be they on an ebike or normal bike, whether we were going up or downhill.
We probably saw about 10 ebikes in total.
Nobody buzzed our tyres.
Nobody shouted at us to get past.
Maybe the above are due to my winning personality, dazzling good looks and cheery hello.
In fact I have only ever had one incident with anyone doing this, which was when the kids were small and it was at Hicks Lodge of all places. Some knobber pushed past my youngest and I, nearly knocking him off. I gave chase to have a word, he tried to ride away from me but crashed so I was happy to re-educate him in the strongest possible (verbal) terms whilst he wrestled with his bike in crumpled heap.
Based on the above sample size (plus previous experience at Cannock and at other trail centres), there certainly does seem to be an correlation between bigger waistlines and ebike usage. Make of that what you will.
Trail centres sound like awful places full of either idiots on ebikes or people not on ebikes constantly bitching and whining about people on ebikes. Makes me glad that I ride around in solitude...
Trail centres sound like awful places full of either idiots on ebikes or people not on ebikes constantly bitching and whining about people on ebikes. Makes me glad that I ride around in solitude…
Nope, they're actually brilliant
Started to see a few at the FOD - always fun to chase down, especially when the rider keeps looking back & can't work out why you're still on their wheel...
Back to the OP tho - & yeah, sounds like you had a run in with an utter asshat - I would lose my shit if someone did that to me on a climb who I didn't know. Maybe practice your trackstands & if someone does it again just ride really slowly, then stop... & repeat.
I walk the dog at Cannock a lot at weekends and have seen a big increase in people shooting along the shared use tracks at stupid speeds on e-bikes where the normal pedal bikes are just mooching along.
We walk well away from the waymarked routes and these are normally people commuting to or from the waymarked bits in full gear, they fly past the walkers and even the people who aren't on e-bikes and seem to take pleasure in showing off their shiny toy without a thought of what could be round the corner. It wont be long until there are some collisions based on the way things are going.
Trick is to ride early at trail centres and avoid the ebikers as they waddle to thier full english breakfast. Or ride more technically challenging natural stuff which doesn’t seem to appeal to most of the ebike community.
Classy.
Sounds like you’d be better off posting on walkmagic.
Read that as something else entirely on first read.
4 of us out yesterday, 2 on e-bikes, the other guy has an e-bike but was on his Nomad as he's training for an event. For the folks asking about average speeds, I had to work a hell of a lot harder to keep up than I normally would. Wasn't a long ride, only about 10 miles up on the local moors, 2200ft of climbing, but I'll definitely benefit in riding with my e-buddies, no question.
They are rapid downhill as well btw, both the Focus and the Levo, That nice centralised, lowdown weight must help I'd imagine.
I've never encountered an ebiker off road where they either shouldn't have been riding or were riding like dicks. I guess we're now starting to see the user conflict and other trail issues that the nay sayers said would happen. It's all very well hand waving and saying aye, but it's just the riders who are dicks, but if there's dicks everywhere all the time then there's a problem that needs fixing.
but if there’s dicks everywhere all the time then there’s a problem that needs fixing.
This may be an issue like the bedroom tax, Brexit etc, ie it only exists in the overpopulated south?. I'm lucky if I see another biker on my local stuff, never mind an e-biker.
Btw, the closed sections on Cannock Chase will remain closed and more other bits with contentious riding / user conflict will soon be closed until the new FC E-Bike permits system is ratified and workable.
@whatnobeer I’m a little confused by your post; firstly, are you saying you are seeing problems or aren’t seeing problems and secondly, if you are seeing problems and one them is eBikers riding where they shouldn’t be are you on a bike or on foot?
Nobody buzzed our tyres.
When people use this phrase do they mean that the rider behind literally touched their rear tyre briefly, or just that they felt intimidated by the rider behind being close?
I'd imagine in most cases it would be the feeling intimidated bit angeldust, but for the purposes of hating, it will be exaggerated into actual tyre touching....
How very dare you touch the rubber of another grown man! 🙂
I would assume it's actually making contact.
Someone riding behind me doesn't intimidate me.
The ebike mob, earlier
Average Emtb speed and battery life vary massively depending on the modes you ride in, how much effort you put in, your weight, The conditions/terrain and elevation.
Eg. Last week i rode my Emtb a few times.
One ride I only had an hour to spare and did 16miles of undulating flatish XC with a total elevation of 900ft in 50 minutes and ridden almost entirely in boost. That's 19mph average and I used around half the 504wh battery ,I often do the same route on my normal bike and generally average 10 or 11mph working harder.
Another night I rode with a mate, him on a normal bike, we did 26 miles, 2600ft elevation and averaged 10mph. I only used one bar of battery power (100wh ish). mainly riding in eco , a few short bursts of trail/boost and a little bit with the assist off completely and barely broke sweat the entire ride.
Are you a Nac Mac Feegle? You must weigh the best part of naff all, 26 miles and 2.5K ft of climbing is a full battery for me, even in Eco.
@Nobeer - I live in Canada, so it might be a problem in the south, but I can't speak to that. They're growing in popularity here. One problem is education, ie folk not knowing where they can and can't ride. That falls on both the retailers and the owners imo. The retailers don't care to educate and the owners assume they're mountain bikes so ride them where they usually ride, even if they're not meant to.
@doomanic I am seeing problems. Not many, but enough. It'll only become more prevalent too unless something is done. I'm on a bike btw. Where I am most of the trails are designated non-motorized which rules out ebike use. On many trails this isn't too much of an issue at the moment but they're explicitly banned (as in its explicitly mentioned that ebikes are forbidden) on one of the alpine trails which gets enough traffic as it is. Its meant to be a long relatively hard ride to help limit numbers. Ebikers seem to have no qualms about riding up there anyway. This jeopardises not only that particular trail but also all the other stuff that is in planning stages. Again, it's dicks on bikes not the bike itself yada yada yada, but it's still a problem. It doesn't help with manufactures and retailers pushing them so much, especially in areas where there's not that many places they're actually allowed to ride.
No Dom. I'm Peter Pan... (Mmmm... Tinkerbell) 😉
14.5st of Peter Pan to be precise just now.
I am however a reasonably fit, strong rider. And AFAIC a resonably fit rider out riding an Ebike with a less fit mate on a normal bike is pretty stupid so as I said I switched mode to off a few times (probably climbed 600 of those 2600ft with the motor off). Terrain was a mixture of dry woodland singletrack, fireroads, landrover tracks and uncategorised roads. </span>The profile of the ride was one big climb followed by one big descent. After the highest point barely any battery was used and the final section of the ride was on road.
It's not the type of ride I enjoy most but a route my mate likes.
Plus it ends with a sesh in the pub.
No Pie tho.
In the US/Canada the problem is not so much dicks on bikes as dicks who have the power to outlaw bikes from being ridden in certain areas with dubious reasons.
I’ve never literally been buzzed by an ebiker on a single track climb at a trail centre but several times I’ve had them ride up within a gnat’s whisker of my back wheel, impatiently breathing down my neck, which is almost as bad as being buzzed.
I genuinely can't think of any singletrack climb I've ever ridden at a trail centre where there aren't plenty opportunities to pass safely and politely. A little patience a modicum of riding skill and good planning and it's actually way easier to pass safely on an Ebike.
@whatnobeer I didn't know you were in Canada. That changes things a lot.
@geex No pie? Just what sort of eBiker are you? And I'd much rather be a Feegle than a bird in tights. 😀
I've been at the end of a 20+ mile ride at jizzburn and getting asked to move over by 3 ebikers, who i'd already let past 15 minutes earlier. They'd stopped for a rest and wanted past again. Just fricking annoying if you ask me.
I meant the pub had no pies left.
Peter wasn't a bird. He was just a little wet. I meant it as a metaphor. I'm more like the darkside of Peter. Fishnet tights, heels and Tink loves it 😉
I’ve been at the end of a 20+ mile ride at jizzburn and getting asked to move over by 3 ebikers, who i’d already let past 15 minutes earlier. They’d stopped for a rest and wanted past again. Just fricking annoying if you ask me.
That sounds truly frightful. I bet they were vapists.
What sort of pub runs out of pies? Did they have any deep fried Mars bars left?
Tink? Or Twink? 😉
What sort of pub has any of those?.
Only the best pub in the world!
Makes me glad that I ride around in solitude…
At first pass I read that as Solihull 😂
In the US/Canada the problem is not so much dicks on bikes as dicks who have the power to outlaw bikes from being ridden in certain areas with dubious reasons.
If our gun laws were aligned with the US all the problems with buzzing tyres etc could be resolved so much more quickly... 😉
we were at a trail centre today, cannock being my nearest and a place we perhaps go to 4-6 times a year
I'm literally a mile down the road and I go 3-4 times a week. I reckon 1 in 10 maybe 1 in 5 bikes are ebikes
ebikes have really messed things up this year with it being so dry. They have basically dug a rut all the way round. On some switchbacks you can see where they've gone straight up through the undergrowth to the next corner. The outside of every corner is strewn with rubble and off camber corners are rutted and crumbling. I've seen them spin up riding round puddles, overtaking, exiting berms, going over a bump you name it.
Riders fall into one of the following categories
* proficient - often ace - MTBrs who want to go loads faster and ride further. They have the skills and the fitness to pass everyone anyway and when one of these comes past it's like an MX bike
* what you might call average MTBrs who for whatever reason prefer to ride an ebike
* useless **** who otherwise wouldn't venture more than 25 m from the car park
Sadly the last category seems to be the majority
haha saw the last catagory bouncing off all the trees on the black at kirroughtree last time i was there.
clearly the type of rider who wouldnt have ventured beyond the red but the motor gave them the ability to get up to the top of the black .
their skill set and the fact it was a 50lb hardtail ebike with shit forks did not let them get back down without many excursions into the undergrowth.
i A. almost felt it my civic duty to stay with them and ensure they got off the hill safe and B.,was enjoying the kamikazi style with which they approached every obstacle.
Bloke I have not seen for a couple of years turned up on one tonight for our social ride. He has had some health issues and put on a bit of weight. The only time I noticed it was an E-bike was on a fire road climb when he turned it up to Froome mode and flew off up the hill. Other than that it was just allowing him to stay with the group, enjoy his ride and not slow everyone else down.
When and if my time comes I would have one in a flash.
Was a nice bike too. Di2 etc Christ knows how much it set him back. But if it gets him out and maybe back on the normal bike one day it is surely money well spent.
I was at Llandegla a couple of weekends back with Jnr FD. Aged 8 he is slow especially on climbs so I tend to stay behind him and check over my shoulder quite often to make sure no one is coming up behind as he weaves his way along a trail.
I completely missed an ebike coming and he flew past my son just as he wobbled to the side a bit, it made jnr FD jump. The guy flew off in to the distance very very rapidly (ie not legal speed)
Its the same old isn't it though with ebikes. People don't like being held up by someone going slower than them, whether that's someone walking slowly infront of you on a footpath, someone riding a bike on a road when your in a car, some one doing 60mph on a motorway.
What people should do though is accept if they want to travel quicker that they need to approach slowly and only overtake when safe to do so.
Unless you are an awesome amateur elite rider, then you should shout 'elite' and barge your way passed.
I do wonder where the whole e-bike thing is headed. I am certainly pro-e-bike in terms of the concept and how they can enable (like others on this thread, I'm sure my time will come when it's the logical choice for me), but my various thoughts are as follows:
- possible scenario of them being equated with electric motorbikes, especially when they're de-restricted and the follow-on consequences.
- what the wider implications and knock-on effects could be for 'normal' bikes in terms of regulation and off-road access issues.
- as previously stated, the damage to built-trails which they can inflict.
- will we start to see e-bike bans in this country, just as I've already observed in some US bikeparks.
Perhaps things will work out fine, there won't be wider negative issues and it's just a reaction to new technologies i.e. the normal worries. We'll see soon enough!
especially when they’re de-restricted
Is this planned (genuine question)? The current law does appear to place some restrictions for use e.g. on bridleways, but I'd imagine that in the case of trail centres it's up to the owner/manager to set he rules…
He means when the owner removes the 15mph motor asistance limit from their Ebike
15mph is a pretty lame limit TBH. You can pedal a normal mtb along the flat faster than that. Above 15mph a restricted Ebike pedals just like a normal bike only 20lb heavier.
"15mph is a pretty lame limit TBH"
Not really. It's faster than the average MTB ride
It's faster than most folk do "utility" cycling at.
If you want a moped for cycling to work faster get a type approved one and register it as an s,pedelec
Electric Mx bikes have no place at trail centres (that is bikes powered over 15mph)
I ride road/gravel and average over 15mph so would an eBike even be faster for me?
Probably why I am not bothered about them,
Probably not designed for you. .
I average over 15mph most of time how ever I have an email cargo bike that when ever it reaches a hill is a serious winch -- live atop a hill. .
With the motor assist it's perfect to go shopping . Even fully loaded it does 15mph all the way to my door. Average journey times are not any slower than my commuter. The effort level can be as much or as little as I want and the main one. I don't arrive where ever I'm going sweaty.....despite averaging a similar speed to going quick on my commuter
Using an e-bike instead of a car is a good thing.
Using an e-bike instead of a bike...hmm, possibly not so good, for a number of well hashed reasons.
Using an e-bike instead of a car is a good thing.
Using an e-bike instead of a bike…hmm, possibly not so good, for a number of well hashed reasons
Using that logic, using ANY bike just for leisure and pleasure is a bad thing ? They all have manufacturing costs, shipping costs, earth natural resource costs.... Surely we should just be walking barefooted then ?
Using an e-bike instead of a bike…hmm, possibly not so good, for a number of well hashed reasons.
Unless you can’t use a normal bike though injury or age
Unless you have limited time and you want to get in maximum riding
Unless you want to ride alpine terrain without lift assistance
Unless you want to self uplift tracks
The only difference between an ebike and a non-ebike is that the former allows dicks to behave badly on the climbs as well as the descents. The central problem is still dicks.
There are posts this week on the Gisburn facebook page about children being spooked into crashing by intimidatory riding and horse riders being abused by assorted arseholes on bikes. I very much doubt this is a purely ebike phenomenon.
The only reassurance is that the worst examples of this appear to be restricted to trail centres, so I'm unlikely to come across them.
I have an off road section that I can commute on, it's 1.6 miles long (which for London is very long!)
I do on my commuter bike, it's uphill on the way home, and has quite a lot of walkers on it. I do about 7-9 miles an hour up it, I realised last night than an e bike would be way quicker!
No need for one at the moment, but I would happily get one if I needed one (by which point the tech will be amazing!)
Ran into a lot of them at Coed Llandegla a few weeks back. I usually ride at night there to avoid the crowds but was showing a mate around on a sunday afternoon. On two sections we encountered them to be rude, obnoxious louts lacking in any sense of trail etiquette or general bike-common sense i.e. waiting to pass. We did JJ's jumps and then on the climb back up a group of at least 10, just came storming through. Some pushing between us, some round the side without a single word. We're both fast XC guys and weren't hanging about, picking our line, out of the saddle side by side. Suddenly you're having to sit down and try to not be knocked off. Prior to this, leaving the black DH section called Dave The fox, there's a steep, technical climb. We were approaching it and i looked back and saw the same group coming, we pushed hard but they caught us and again tried to get past. i HAD to close the door on them to avoid getting knocked off or losing my own safe line, a line i know works to get up the thing. Ricky opened the taps and took them on beating them to the top.
I wish I'd been there to see you closing the door, and Ricky opening the taps. I've got a semi just thinking about it.
On two sections we encountered them to be rude, obnoxious louts lacking in any sense of trail etiquette or general bike-common sense i.e. waiting to pass. We did JJ’s jumps and then on the climb back up a group of at least 10, just came storming through. Some pushing between us, some round the side without a single word.
Vs
i looked back and saw the same group coming, we pushed hard but they caught us and again tried to get past. i HAD to close the door on them to avoid getting knocked off or losing my own safe line, a line i know works to get up the thing.
Ricky opened the taps and took them on beating them to the top.
All of the above mentioned riders sound like a bunch of fannies to me.
Seems you don't all have the excuse of being noobs on ebikes though.
#GoRicky!
Cool story bro.
There's a lot of anger here, I can only imagine being non ebikers that you get upset as the world cup events have limited entry numbers so a lot of you miss out on being in your rightful place amongst other world class riders and have to slum it at a trail centre.
I'm very confused as I have a normal bike and an ebike and don't know which 'mob' I belong in 🙁
Ricky opened the taps and took them on beating them to the top.
Swoon........how does ricky manage to ride with such large balls?
I’m very confused as I have a normal bike and an ebike and don’t know which ‘mob’ I belong in
The riding bikes mob.
Welcome in, the water is warm.
Ignore the oddballs in the corner.
Swoon……..how does ricky manage to ride with such large balls?
He rests them on his taps
Cannock is full of dicks...stay away. Thanks.
What I will say is that I've seen guys on e-bikes riding at inappropriate speeds on shared trails weaving through dog walkers etc. Would they do the same on clockwork bikes? Possibly but the speed would be lower so may not be as dramatic.
I've also seen lots of guys in big groups riding clockwork 'enduro' bikes carving up the hillside cutting new unsustainable trails but that's for another thread...
They're banned from airlines and a lot of the chairlifts in the Alps aren't they?
So normal bikes will be for decent riders, e-bikes will be secondary bikes or primary bikes for useless bimblers.
Aha that’s it I’m in the useless bimbler mob. Phew I have a home at last 😀 so what’s the etiquette for letting the fast non ebikes pass me ?, they will be passing won’t they ?
Every ebiker I've met on the trails has either had a laugh about how lazy they are, had a chat saying we should try one, said thanks as they've gone past or just said hi.
Maybe it's friendlier in Scotland but no issues, just people out enjoying themselves same as me.
FWIW I fancy giving one a try for a day, reckon it would be a good laugh.
I was distracted when I wrote that.
E-bikes will be secondary bikes for decent riders and primary bikes for bumblers. They aren't replacements for normal bikes. You can't put them on planes, a lot of chairlifts won't take them, you can't race them unless it's an e-bike specific event, e-downhill bikes are a bit unwiedldly and nasty compared to their enduro derived cousins.
I wish I’d been there to see you closing the door, and Ricky opening the taps. I’ve got a semi just thinking about it.
🙂
so what’s the etiquette for letting the fast non ebikes pass me ?
I got overtaken (uphill) on my ebike at the weekend. The guy was quite confused, he'd never overtaken an ebiker before :D.
My only e-bike encounter was on the red climb to minch moor early last year maybe spring. Three guys on Ebikes had stopped to take a selfie they asked me to join them in pic 🙂
We had chat/laugh about e-bikes and we parted ways 🙂
I'm gonna chime in on this. They are really starting to wind me up too. I keep hearing people coming up behind me and being competitive I often put the hammer down when I hear that (Don't we all). I've recently blown myself up thinking "jeez this guys fast i cant shake him and he keeps buzzing my tyre". So I pull over having been maxxing HR out for a minute or two... only for it to be some overweight 25 year old on an Ebike..not cool!
Cuts both ways had a great chat with two blokes at thorneliee they were friendly and knowledgeable about their ebikes but first encounter was spooky wood climb where a guy shout "ebike, let me pass" I didn't as I was entering a corner but pulled slightly over (as I would for a faster normal bike) to give him space and allow me to continue my climb. Thanked with a "****s sake" mind you no helmet, jeans and a hi Vis vest. His son on the second ebike had just knocked the Mrs off on a corner. He was pedaling up to it the free wheeling the corner obviously the power switched off and he stalled, at every single corner. I hope they had a nice day but decided it's not for them.
I do bike tours along the Danube. Last summer I had a buggered knee (bone marrow infection). I borrowed an ebike for 2 weeks. That meant I didn't lose any work. It was perfect until my knee got better.
I said hello to lots of people and smiled, even passing them on uphills.