My Brother in Law has been a roadie (who also owns a cyclo-cross bike) for years, today was his first MTB ride on his own mountain bike - he struggled a bit on the downhills but due to massively better fitness absolutely rocketed away on anything flat/smooth/uphill!
He's bought a Cube Reaction C:62 eagle, 2018 model - which is essentially a full on XC bike:
69 head angle
406mm reach on the 17" size
29er wheels with 2.25 racing ralph & rocket rons
100mm travel RS reba
sub 10kg weight (although it was a good kilo or 2 more at the end of the ride with the mud!)
He's been used to lightweight road and cross bikes for the last 10+ years, and literally in his back garden are some decent trails/offroad routes, which the CX just wasn't able to deal with, so he bought a MTB. Now, the idea of getting a heavy, long travel hardtail never even crossed his mind, let alone a FS bike, due to being so used to lightweight fully rigid bikes,even the 100m travel forks felt too soft to him! I rode my Vitus Escarpe 140mm/150mm travel FS bike which is a good 4.5kg heaver than his bike!
So, as above on the flats he's off like a scalded cat, he doesn't do 'spinning' so any climb or on the flat he's into a small cog and gone within seconds. Pat of that is the bike, super light hardtail with fast tyres, but we'll come back to the tyres... but mostly it's supreme fitness. I definitely need to get fitter if I'm going to keep up with him, it's a good motivator!
Then we come to a little singletrack section I point out, nothing hard at all, a few roots and a bit of a rutted section at the end, a few turns and some loose mud/leaves/rocks. I go first, at my normal speed, get to the bottom where there's a stile thing for horses and I wait. And wait... And wait some more... He finally arrives, very gingerly - first thing he says is he had no grip at all, the rear wheel kept pinging off stuff and sliding about and he couldn't put any weight on the rear wheel so his arms/hands were getting pummelled. I mention that this is why I got a FS bike and he starts to see my reasoning... 😀
Anyway, the ride continues like this, him leaving me for dead on anything up/flat and me flying past on anything down that's not smooth, he would be almost walking it and I'd come flying past. On the last section before home there's a chalky descent which is hard to even walk up, I manage to ride it all with complete control, arse over the rear wheel and dragging the rear a bit, he has to walk most of and drops his saddle right down, again seeing the benefit of a dropper post.
Anyway, long post but importantly, we both had fun - now to the point of the post: his bike has very little mud clearance on the rear so no room for a bigger tyre, what's the best 2.25" max Scwalbe (he's a big fan of them so good to stick with what he knows) rear tyre that's got a bit more grip in mud than the racing ralph? I don't think it'll be hard to find something more grippy tbh as this is the tread:
Also, any other tips from roadies turn MTB'ers on how to get him a bit more confidence on the downhill/bumpy bits? I know it'll probably be time on the bike, but stuff like the riding position is completely alien to him, being used to drop bars. We'll probably swap bikes at some point on a ride too so he can see just how much grip and control a slack and long FS bike with 2.5" tyres gives you...
TL:DR - super fit roadie BiL on MTB, how best to get him more confident going down offroad?
Either more time on the bike, or even better do a skills day. Best money you can spend on an upgrade
The nobby nic’s aren’t too bad, a lot more grip than the ralphs.
You’ve not mentioned if he was casual or mamil ;0)
I’d guess he hasn’t gone tubeless yet either
You need to convince him he doesn't need 60 psi in his MTB tyres. Prob 40 would be a small victory at this stage, 30 a long term goal.
Front tyre is a huge difference maker IMHO - planting the front end with proper grip is hugely confidence inspiring for someone learning the ropes. Get him something serious up front, rear doesn't matter nearly as much for now.
You can probably still put him away on a very hard climb btw, if you fancy some bragging rights - pure roadies won't have the technique or be comfortable with the power delivery.
Swap bikes for your next ride.
pure roadies won’t have the technique or be comfortable with the power delivery.
I'm curious, since they appear to be more machine than man. How so?
The nobby nic’s aren’t too bad, a lot more grip than the ralphs.
You’ve not mentioned if he was casual or mamil ;0)
I’d guess he hasn’t gone tubeless yet either
Cheers, will have a look at them - its more finding something that's the same size or smaller, mud clearance is seriously lacking!
He's not a MAMIL haha, and no not tubeless yet, I've already said he needs to and I'll set it up for him, got plenty of tape.
You need to convince him he doesn’t need 60 psi in his MTB tyres. Prob 40 would be a small victory at this stage, 30 a long term goal.
Front tyre is a huge difference maker IMHO – planting the front end with proper grip is hugely confidence inspiring for someone learning the ropes. Get him something serious up front, rear doesn’t matter nearly as much for now.
That was the first thing I did before we rode, 30 front and 32 rear, the ground here is covered in flint and chalk so didn't want to go too low and risk a puncture. Once he's tubeless ill get him to run 28/25 or so. The fork will probably take a 2.4 up front (it's a 29er not a huge amount of room) so I'll try again get him on a fatter from tyre for some more grip.
Swapping bikes will be done for sure, I want to build a light titanium hardtail at some point so will be good to see how much faster a 10lb lighter bike is!!
And the only way I'd beat him up a hill is if it was a proper techy climb, but not too steep - his fitness is many, many times better than mine, and he doesn't spin up hills, he powers up them!
teach him how to pump and manual. his head will naturally lift and he will suddenly start to ride with less weight on his hands and more through his hips and he'll absorb more. trust me on this.
some "pure" roadies are actually pretty handy handling any sort of bike.
I’m curious, since they appear to be more machine than man. How so?
Just a very different type of effort - most roads in the UK are all about smooth power delivery, even if you're crushing it. Very very few climbs will demand a spikey red zone effort. Add in the technique you need to keep the power down over difficult terrain and it's a different proposition.
I'm talking about pure roadies here, guys dipping their toes in to off-road like the OP describes. Obv any roadie who's got the hours in on the MTB will slay on the climbs.
dafuq you on about Garry?
Yeah I agree about the power delivery, he was spinning out the rear on a slippy climb as he's used to just being able to put all the power down whenever. Roadies won't have the offroad skill to be able to balance to grip front to rear. In the dry however, I don't stand a chance haha. I hit a new max HR and threshold on the ride, that's how hard I was pushing to keep up.
I’d leave him be. Otherwise he’ll lose you on the climbs and you’ll never see him on the downhills either!
Seriously I’m a bit like him. Fitness to climb anything fast. But downhill mincing is my forte. So just practice really. Perhaps a skills course.
Wiggle the fingers to release the death grip is a tip I give people on the road for cornering.
And yes roadies can handle bikes rather well as a rule, but it’s a bit different downhill.
Yeah I'm hoping my fitness improves close to his at the same times as his skill level improves to match mine. Only problem with that is that fitness takes a lot longer to acquire than skills!
I’m a roadie(decent enough racer) who also mountain bikes. I’ve been on bikes for years, BMX, CX and got into mtb seriously in the last two years. Even had a couple of races last summer.
Tyre grip this winter has been the big eye opener for me. I kept my Nobby nics on for too long. I’m now on shortys on the front (tubeless) with 23psi and have grip! The nics were awful on wet roots and sloppy mud. If your pal is like me and raced a bit he will know how painful spills on a bike can be and may twitchy over roots when he feels the front wheel slip. As a roadie that’s the worst feeling in the world as it tends to end in face or shoulder meeting concrete.
Fitness and climbing wise, my mtb buddies all race XC and we are all pretty even matched on climbs, I don’t think it’s anything about roadies being fitter per se, it’s just horses for courses. My bro is a decent down hill rider, but he can’t (and won’t) climb to save his life....but doesn’t train to.
I’d say I can sustain power on longer climbs better than my buddies, but again it’s down to training. They don’t train for 40 minute climbs where my usual training ride was up a tough 45 minute climb averaging 6% with 23% max sections.
I used to get mullered following them on a trail but soon picked up how to pick a line, but my skills are still cr@p! Typical roadie with skinny weak arms! I’ll be doing a skills course in the spring. Got to learn how to manual as get tired trying to hoike the front wheel up.
I did a skills course when first moving to Mtb, didn’t get much out of it though, I did a beginner intro course, a full day, but from memory there was 8 people on the course and the majority were real beginners to riding let alone riding trails. Your BiL may want to think about 1 to 1 lessons rather than a class like I did.
Be prepared for the BiL to still wear Lycra and have shaved legs in the summer on a MTB....I still do!
With regards to skill climbing.....yes roadies know to move about the saddle as well. We know if the road is steep (and wet) how to apply traction to the rear...we know what to do if the road is steep and the front is getting lighter. Do mtb’ers really think roadies are that dim we can’t work out how to move about on the bike??!
Last one...attack position, heels down and head up.
Do mtb’ers really think roadies are that dim we can’t work out how to move about on the bike??!
I used to be a member of a club, was road biased, but a few Mtbers in it with me.
We used to go as a group to one of the 7 stanes at Xmas every year, always amazed me how bad most of the roadies were, I mean these guys would ride big distances, race etc, but one lap of kirro red andb they were done! I just assumed it was a mixture of upper body and mental tiredness.
Was good though, stopped them from sneering at you for doing a mere 20 odd miles on a ride, for a few weeks anyway. 🤣
I ride on the road with a bunch of old blokes who have been excellent riders/racers for 50 years yet they think I am some kind of riding god because I GO OFF-ROAD!!!! In their natural environment they trounce me on every climb but give them the any mildly difficult surface conditions and they are done!
fitness takes a lot longer to acquire than skills!
Maybe not, depends where you start from and aim for. Both will have a sharp gain then a slower / harder gain phases before a plateau.
You'll practice and use skills faster if you have fitness to start with though - you won't be blowing up as you try to move the bike around while putting in the effort.
Has anyone mentioned smiling? Everyone know the key difference between mtb’rs and roadies is smiling...
OP suggest he gets Shorty or Mary tyres front and rear. Will help with grip and slow him down a little on the (smoother) climbs.
Do mtb’ers really think roadies are that dim
Well since you ask.... 😉
