So my 13yo daughter is getting more adventurous with her riding and is wanting to do more bike parks and racing.
She currently uses her 150/140 Vitus Escarpe for bike parks and racing.
She's asked whether I can sort her out a DH bike, well it would do for both of us as she's on a Medium adult frame (same as her short ar$e Dad....).
Missed out on a cracking 2022 Vitus Dominer last weekend as I hadn't sold my old full sus, but hey ho.
So budget of around £1k, so deffo looking used.
What sort of aged bike should I be looking at and what should I avoid.
Thanks
For me I'd want a bike that has bits you can buy.
So 27.5 wheels, 110*20 boost front. The rest, I wouldn't mind too much.
Nukeproof Pulse are decent for price usually
At 13, don't be afraid to look outside of what you think a "dh bike" is. Single crown forks all the way for my mind for lighter riders (assumptions made)
You might find an equivalent age 170mm Enduro bike is actually better than a DH tank and might give you more options in budget
Here's my 13yo's Whistler DH bike. Probably cost me just over 1000quid to build with lots of parts bin and marketplace digging.
He'll size up to a medium 2018 yt Tues for next season with 29er 38's. I paid 200 bucks for the carbon tues frame so an experiment I'm happy to explore.
I love DH bikes but I'd echo what BareBack said. Full on DH bikes really excel on steep, chunky terrain. They're a bit of a buzzkill everywhere else, which in the UK is 99% of places.
There's all kinds of longer travel bikes that would rip up the bike park and be much lighter, more agile and a pleasure to ride in more situations. They're probably faster than a DH bike on most UK tracks for a smaller rider.
Can't say I agree.
Every FoD podium is filled with youngsters on DH bikes, whether that's because DH bikes are better or the kids are better, I'm not sure. But it's rare to see the fast rippers/juvenile racers on anything other than a full DH.
It depends if course where and what the kid wants from riding, but if they want to race and be competitive, get them on a DH.
I have an Orange 322 for sale that's in your budget...
https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/3643893/
Won't hardsell it but it might work well for her, it's a lighter build (I weigh 10 stone!) and all really nice components and ready to go, plus has some useful spare tyres etc. Literally unridden since I got the frame refinished by Orange, downside of course is it's a few years old and 26 but still a great bike imo. I think I have it listed a little too high tbh, price is open to negotiation.
TBF you can get an amazing amount of dh bike for this much money, all the big spenders really want one from the last couple of years and then it drops off really hard. The downside is an awful lot of the used ones out there are shagged, especially the "ideal first dh bikes", they tend to get ridden into the ground then sold off for cheap. And a lot of lightly used but older ones are seriously overpriced. FB classifieds can have some ridiculous deals, provided you're willing to do a bit of work.
An old Trek Session would fit the bill if you really want a DH bike. I’d get something like a 170mm Capra and look for 180 Zebs to put on the front? Might come to a bit more than £1k though.
Mine. In two minds about selling but it is still for sale.
https://singletrackmag.com/advert/big-travel-trail-enduro-dh-bike-bergamont-straitline-team/
whether that’s because DH bikes are better or the kids are better, I’m not sure
I think its more that DH racing is no longer a grass roots sport and there are many parents bankrolling the acceleration of progression with dryland training, expensive skills and racer development programs.
Gone are the days of smashing loam turns with your pals in the woods and here are the days of freelap, cone drills and "pay to play". There are a half dozen companies in a 50mile radius of me delivering eyewateringly expensive racer development programs for kids.
I think that's why you'll see more full DH bikes at races, because parents have budget to throw at equipment in addition to rider development programs. The full DH bike isn't necessarily the requirement, but if you're spending several thousand on a season of training, you're more likely to assume that you'll need a dh bike to go with that "investment"...plus lift line pressure for younger minds.
I can't find a reference immediately, but I'm pretty sure the French national race series don't allow racers on triple crown forks for racing until after 13. I stand to be corrected though as I cant verify that anywhere quickly
I did just browse the FOD race photos from Jan on Rootsnrain and from your sons cat, P3 and P5 were single crown. 13-14 p2 and p3 single, u13 p2, p3, p4 single, u17 p3 single.
Notably for the OP's case, for the 13-14 girls, the *only* rider on triple crown forks was P7 of 7
the winners of F15-16 and F17-18 were also the only ones it their categories riding single crowns.
I was pretty shocked, marshalling a recent SDA round- I'd taken my bike along to try and sell, thinking "this'll make a great first dh bike for some wee pinner", but the juniors were almost all on expensive modern bikes, "more than my car" territory. Not all dh bikes, probably about 60/40 with the physically smaller ones mostly being on shorter travel bikes and the bigger ones mostly on full dh bikes. A wee bit depressing tbh, as nice as it is to see kids supported so well.
I wouldn't be surprised if the average value of the under-19s bikes was more than the vets.
Racing and travel is expensive, so a half decent DH bike isn't much in the scheme of things!
There are some great deals around, but £1K is a little short of most of the 'decent' options I've seen recently, such as 2018 Demo's. I'd ignore 26" bikes, decent DH tyres are getting hard to find or are old and hard. I've seen some good YT Tues within your budget, but you really need to buy on condition, particularly fork and shock as these are expensive to replace.
I love downhill bikes but don’t think I’d ever think one is right for a 13 year old girl or boy in the uk, unless you’re maybe lapping Glencoe and fort William every weekend. Is her current bike holding her back travel geo wise and would she be strong enough to pull a 35lb bike with a 63degree h/a out of a corner to gap some roots, because they will suck any enjoyment out of riding if you aren’t properly on it on every run. You could hire one a bike park wales and do some back to back with the trail bike. I’d personally put the rest of the money into decent coaching but if you do decide a bike is the way to go look for one with a high leverage ratio so you’ve got more chance of getting a low enough spring rate
What BareBack said! I couldn't be bothered to get into it last night. EDIT: also marksparks, beaten by a minute.
Pros ride DH bikes, racer kids want them and Dad buys them. It's just part of the package.
I've said this before but I honestly believe that most people would go faster on smaller, lighter bikes. Especially in the UK and especially for young adults and in this case a 13 year old girl.
Having said that, a YT Tues is a mint bike for the money. I've ridden a few of them. Heavy in alloy though and expensive in carbon.
The new style Canyon Torque would be a good one. As mentioned the Trek Session has been around for years and is available in a few different styles.
I have no idea what's on the market for around £1000 though.
If I just wanted a bikepark bike for being adventurous on there's loads of choice. Airdrop Edit, Commnlencal Clash, Weeksy's favourite the Status.
I did just browse the FOD race photos from Jan on Rootsnrain and from your sons cat, P3 and P5 were single crown. 13-14 p2 and p3 single, u13 p2, p3, p4 single, u17 p3 single.
Notably for the OP’s case, for the 13-14 girls, the *only* rider on triple crown forks was P7 of 7
the winners of F15-16 and F17-18 were also the only ones it their categories riding single crowns
I had a little look last night and got a little sheepish as yes, i found there was less than i expected 😀
+1 on the arms race is more about culture and emulating pro riders than the bike that actually fits or is best for the riding faced. See how many skinny kids with short arms ride bars so wide they have all but 'locked out' elbows....
+1 on how much many parents are throwing at kids kit, bike, training, travel. Always has been, always will be - I grew up racing sailing dinghies and it was no different.
I’m a reformed downhiller, I grew up on single crown hardtails in the 90’s until I got my first full sus in 2000, I was immediately slower in many places - who knew a 50lb bike would be so slow on the relatively flat DH tracks at FOD…
Anyway, I haven’t had a DH bike since about 2016 when I had a Kona Operator, I’m not joking when I say I was faster down most of the BPW trails on the Production Prive hardtail I borrowed for the second half of the day. If everyone is riding DH bikes it makes sense that the winner will be on a DH bike, but if it’s split 50/50 it comes down to the faster rider on the fastest bike, remember when we saw Pietermartizburg and Cairns WC tracks being ridden on enduro bikes? Wasn’t the whitewash people expected with Graves doing very well indeed in SA.
I’ve never been a 13 year old girl, but I’ve probably been as strong as one in the past and I agree with those above who say it’s difficult to get a long and low bike up to speed when you’ve killed said speed on a UK DH track, so get a long travel burly but light FS bike for her.
Dual crown forks aren’t always that heavy though, so if the frame can take them I’d install them - nothing gives you more confidence riding downhill than being sat behind a set of dual crown forks.
Dorados, BOXXER air (35mm) are not heavy forks and can be tuned down to 180mm travel - trust me, they won’t impact her riding in a negative way like a whole DH bike might.
I can’t find a reference immediately, but I’m pretty sure the French national race series don’t allow racers on triple clamp forks for racing until after 13. I stand to be corrected though as I cant verify that anywhere quickly
The lowest age group permitted to use triple clamp forks for racing in France is U17. There were quite a few U15 kids out there on Supremes with Zeb's and 38's last season. I'm not sure those forks are much lighter than a 35 Boxxer !
Op whether single or dual crown (I think I'd go the former in your case, 38mm chassis forks are plenty stuff enough), get something with air sus so it's easy to grow as she does (in talent and weight). Might narrow down the options
Thanks all - some really great post here!!
Will probably look more toward a long travel enduro/park bike - hadn't considered the weight/length with the DH bike.
Interesting thought on the 35 boxxers - might have a look to see what's about.
Don't underestimate the psychological effect on a kid who's sat there on their enduro bike when the kids around them are all sat on DH bikes.
Sure, it drives the arms race of them all on DH bikes but if it makes it more fun then it seems good to me.
They manage fine - my lad had a great time at Ft. William on his enduro bike last year but he's thrilled that he'll have a DH bike this year.
Have a chat with her and see what she thinks about a long-travel enduro bike instead?
I'd suggest the Radon Swoop 650b from about 2016.
That was pretty light, rode amazingly well and had 170mm travel. Geometry was better than most at the time too.
Over the last few years I've done probably 9 weeks in the Alps on a mix of a modern Merida eEnduro bike with a 180mm air Lyrik and a 2008 Canfield DH bike with a oldish 200mm coil Boxxer, both with the same Splug damper. The modern eBike almost matches the old DH bikes handling, but on the fast, rough brake bumps the Boxxer is a lot less hard work on the arms on long runs. I'd love to try both a coil single crown on an Enduro bike and a modern air Boxxer to work out why. I don't really bother riding the DH bike in the UK, ebikes are quicker than uplift at a lot of local places. I am currently building a modern DH bike (29" Nukeproof Dissent) to try this summer, will be an interesting experiment, but planning on keeping the old Boxxer to keep the build cheap.
They manage fine – my lad had a great time at Ft. William on his enduro bike last year but he’s thrilled that he’ll have a DH bike this year.
Fort William and Glencoe are the only places I know where a DH bike has a chance to shine in the UK. Everywhere else I'd be happier on my old Geometron which was the fastest bike I've ever had absolutely everywhere that I ever rode it, including all over the Alps.
Buy her what she wants. If it’s a DH bike then let her have one. Life’s too short. If she loves it then you’ve got a fun and expensive few years ahead do you, if she doesn’t, then at least she’s got the big out of her system.
Buy the bike.
Agree with all the above. Last year I got a Sommet (170R/160R travel) and even that felt like a slog on pretty much everything I rode it on, but depends where and how you're riding I guess. Big travel plus LSL geo doesn't make for a fun/engaging ride for me. It was about 35lbs so not the heaviest thing ever either.
Something like a Scott Voltage 710 might be worth a look? Older so a bit cheaper but still 27.5 and if it's anything like the older ones it'll be a fun ride, I never felt like mine was sluggish but was still really confidence inspiring. If you don't mind 26" then even one of the older ones like the FR30 would be great as they come up small.
Saying that I'd still love something like an Airdrop Slacker, their singlespeed park setup version looks awesome. Big travel DH bikes with triple crowns are really confidence inspiring if you're riding the right stuff on them.
For what it’s worth, the 2019 Giant Reign I had rode like a Dh bike in how it sucked the bumps up and inspired confidence, they do an SX version with dual crown forks so if you didn’t want to go full on you could look for something like that.
