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Help me shop!
My bike got pinched.
Insurance are sorting me out with cash for a new one - £2500, but happy to pay less or go second hand. Or put a little of my own cash in for something special.
Old bike was a titanium Titus hard tail 29er with 140mm Pikes, Hope wheels/brakes etc
Things I liked:
Lightweight (I hate climbing)
Went downhill nicely - I had an XL frame with a short stem.
Quite keen on 29" wheels
Things I didn't like:
Seemed a bit "tall" - felt I was up very high
My riding:
Most trail centres - Glentress etc, sometimes some long XC stuff, sometimes Lake District etc
I'm fine with hardtails, but won't say no to an FS.
Bikes I've looked at already:
Sonder Signal Ti and Transmitter
Bird Zero 29
YT Jeffsy 29 (carbon one on Sale just now)
Used Sonder Evol on here for £1500 and very close to home (Edinburgh)
I'd like something similar spec to my old bike - Pike forks, Hope wheels etc. Not fussed about Shimano Vs SRAM. Don't need an "Enduro" bike, would rather have less travel and weight, but do like the slacker head angle thing going on these days.
Sizewise I'm 5'11" and normally ride a large.
I know the sales are on just now so bargains abound. Anyone seen any nice trail bikes?
And if I can get an electric motor too.... Perfection!
YT Decoy if you want electricity? Jeffsy if you don't. In typical style I have one of the older ones and the new frame seems to improve the geometry a bit and fix some issues (tall seat tube/standover) but it's been brilliant for the type of riding you describe. Did some bike park days in the Alps on it and it was great even there where it should have been getting out of its depth.
I think the Decoy is out of my price range
There's a used Scott Genius 920 twinloc for sale locally for £2500 Ono. Could be good for my riding
You could build a nice Cotic SolarisMAX and get 29 AND B-plus wheels in that budget, I'm sure. I know I did for less than that.
From what you describe, I would think a nice LLS hardtail would be great, and as above, cannot think of something that I crave more than a Solaris Max -
Just helped my Neighbour build his up, and by jings its lovely. Helm fork seems pretty damn good too.
Does sound like you want an LLS hardtail, quite a lot of options now - what about one of the SICK recovery jobs from On One?
Your welcome to try my Zero 29 in the Pentlands.
Might take you up on that Steven
I could get a brand new Whyte 905 and have nearly a grand in change....
I had my eye on the Whyte too but I couldn't get a test ride and Bird were great in that respect.
(black bikes only 🙂 )
Was looking at those Cannondales at Paul's Cycles. Had a test on a fancy trigger years back a d loved it. But ...
Am leaning towards going under budget and using the rest of the cash for a holiday...
Have seen a used Whyte 909 in vgc from an LBS for £1050.... Finding it hard to look past that - price seems good and they get rave reviews. Seems exactly right for what I ride
Don’t need an “Enduro” bike, would rather have less travel and weight, but do like the slacker head angle thing going on these days.
Sizewise I’m 5’11” and normally ride a large.
I know the sales are on just now so bargains abound. Anyone seen any nice trail bikes?
Latest Jeffsy has gone all "enduro" so possibly not quite what you are looking for. After my search for a new all-round trail bike I just bought a Canyon Neuron CF in the sales. 130 mm travel at both ends, balanced geometry and great build spec at each price level. The 9.0 SL spec in particular looks awesome value at just over £3k.
That new Nukeproof would interest me, their bikes have improved massively.
Which Nukeproof is that?
Latest Jeffsy has gone all “enduro” so possibly not quite what you are looking for.
A Jeffsy CF Pro looks like a trail all rounder to me. Absolute bargain at £2,800 at the moment too. OP I would buy one before the offer ends. I don't work for them nor own one btw.
Yeah the models below the Pro Race are still trail focused with pike/fox 34 forks. The pro race has 10mm more travel at both ends and fox 36's so more in between trail and enduro.
The CF Pro is great value.
A Jeffsy CF Pro looks like a trail all rounder to me. Absolute bargain at £2,800 at the moment too. OP I would buy one before the offer ends. I don’t work for them nor own one btw.
Yep, IF you believe an all-rounder needs to be that big and burly. It has a huge wheelbase and reach. Even most of the kool-aid magazines are saying it's more enduro than trail in this latest iteration. Great for uplift days, but not the sort of thing I would want to be pedalling too much.
Yep, IF you believe an all-rounder needs to be that big and burly. It has a huge wheelbase and reach. Even most of the kool-aid magazines are saying it’s more enduro than trail in this latest iteration. Great for uplift days, but not the sort of thing I would want to be pedalling too much.
It's not big and burly compared to a more Enduro focused bike. It's actually quite slight and nimble based on a short test ride.
Reach and wheelbase are not very long compared to my trail bike, a 2017 Foxy.
I don't know what a kool aid magazine is.
The latest iteration uses the same frame and travel as the past 2 years I think.
What's wrong with pedalling it? It sounds perfect for an all rounder trail bike. How long have you riden one for?
Yeah the models below the Pro Race are still trail focused with pike/fox 34 forks. The pro race has 10mm more travel at both ends and fox 36’s so more in between trail and enduro.
The CF Pro is great value.
Exactly. They really haven't all gone enduro from what I can see, light builds with just 150mm, sounds like the perfect basic trail bike that will also cope with trail centre use.
The AL Jeffsy is the old shape isn't it ? If that bothers you, then get an AL. Don't think it really should as a couple of the changes would be really welcome (lower seat tube and standover in particular). I believe that was done so that those who wanted a longer one could size up more easily and those that didn't could get their usual size.
Having had a think, I decided to spend less than the budget.
Just won an eBay auction for a Bird Zero TR with 1*11 SLX, Hope wheels, dropper and 140mm XFusion forks for £650.
I think it's all the bike I need, and I can bank the rest of the £££s
Sounds brilliant!
What a bargain. Why pay through the nose for the latest thing when 650 gets you that and cash to spare? Enjoy!
Blimey, someone spending less than their budget?! 😲
Sounds like a bargain you've got anyway!
Great bike. Big fan of x fusion forks too (on the whole). Some bargains around if you look hard enough.
Money saved means one thing...n+1
Yeah, guess I spent around 25% of budget.
Not very modern!
Should do what I need, and if not, I'll get something else...
It’s not big and burly compared to a more Enduro focused bike. It’s actually quite slight and nimble based on a short test ride.
It's all relative mate. The Jeffsy looks like a great bike, but the numbers certainly put it at the burly end of the trail spectrum. Certainly more bike than I would ever need and most probably the OP too based on his comments. There are plenty of considerably lighter, more nimble trail bikes for those who might prioritise those parameters. No I haven't ridden one, but I have considered it and looked closely at the dimensions compared to most other mid-travel trail bikes. It's a pretty big bike, especially if you size up with the relatively short seat tubes. At 6'1" I was looking at the XL with close on 500 mm reach and 1250 ish wheelbase. Basically miles bigger than my 160 mm Enduro from a few years ago, which itself is borderline as a true all round trail bike. All IMHO of course. Pedal whatever does it for you.
It’s all relative mate. The Jeffsy looks like a great bike, but the numbers certainly put it at the burly end of the trail spectrum. Certainly more bike than I would ever need and most probably the OP too based on his comments. There are plenty of considerably lighter, more nimble trail bikes for those who might prioritise those parameters. No I haven’t ridden one, but I have considered it and looked closely at the dimensions compared to most other mid-travel trail bikes. It’s a pretty big bike, especially if you size up with the relatively short seat tubes. At 6’1″ I was looking at the XL with close on 500 mm reach and 1250 ish wheelbase. Basically miles bigger than my 160 mm Enduro from a few years ago, which itself is borderline as a true all round trail bike. All IMHO of course. Pedal whatever does it for you.
Hmm, I'd disagree there - it may be long, but there's other bikes with less travel that are long bikes, an XL santa Cruz Blue has 490 reach and that's certainly not an enduro bike. Long reach/wheelbase does not equal enduro bike. It also feels shorter when pedalling due to the steep seat angle.
The Jeffsy has a 67 HA in the high setting, 78 SA, and 140/140mm travel for the 29er. How that's 'Enduro', I don't know. All the reviews I've seen (including trail bike of the year) have said it climbs brilliantly.
I'm 6ft 3in and rode an XXL Pro race on a demo day, I was looking for a trail bike that would climb well, be fast on the flat, and could handle some decent rough downhill. Something equally as happy hitting BPW laps all day, or riding an all day loop in the lakes/scotland with several thousand feet of climbing and descending. I found it in the Jeffsy.
Get a ride on one, they're bloody brilliant. And the most agile 29er I've ever ridden.
500mm reach is the same as my L Foxy which is définetely not at the burly end of the trail spectrum, so yes all relative indeed. It certainly not "gone all enduro". The OP actually listed it LOL.
Oh well looks like I'm wrong then and the Jeffsy is some dainty, short little XC/trail bike, lol
It also feels shorter when pedalling due to the steep seat angle.
I agree and that was why I would have to go for an XL as the L is indeed too short on the effective top tube due to the 78 deg seat angle - another current fashion statement. To be honest I just don't ride enough seriously rough stuff to make the inevitable compromise. When you say it climbs "brilliantly" it's still a 30+ lb bike with draggy tyres.
“Oh well looks like I’m wrong then”
Maybe you are? Maybe you’re in denial that MTBing is allowed to progress and the bikes likewise?
The Zero TR 130mm hardtail that the OP has bought has a reach of ~490mm in a large. Does that stop it being a trail bike?
“I agree and that was why I would have to go for an XL as the L is indeed too short on the effective top tube due to the 78 deg seat angle – another current fashion statement.”
It isn’t rocket science that if you steepen the seat angle you can pedal up steeper inclines without wheelying. Sizing bikes by ETT makes no sense when aero is almost irrelevant when pedalling, a more upright position is better for pedalling and breathing despite what roadie lore may have you thinking.
My old XL bike had a reach of 406mm, and the new one (a Medium) is 447mm I think.
I always felt too "high up" on the old bike, but did like the 66 degree head angle, so this new one should help me get more "in" the bike.
I think the Jeffsy is a "trail" bike. My 130mm Horsethief was.
It would be a great buy, the sale price/spec is excellent.
However, I just didn't feel like spending all the money!
“My old XL bike had a reach of 406mm, and the new one (a Medium) is 447mm I think.”
Yep. You have to add 20-30mm to the reach when comparing hardtails to full-sus bikes because of how the frame tilts when it has someone on it, hence me saying the large TR is about 490mm reach.
I’m about your height and ride a medium Zero AM - great bike! Mine is slacked out further with an angleset but that’s just me being weird. The one change I’d make is longer chainstays like on the TR.
I think you’ll really like the shape of the Zero TR vs the Titus. Be prepared to clonk your pedals on things quite a bit until you get used to how much lower it is!
Maybe you are? Maybe you’re in denial that MTBing is allowed to progress and the bikes likewise?
I'm all for progression, but the latest trends are making me think twice about getting caught up in all the marketing bs. Bikes are getting ever lower, longer and slacker and the trend seems to have accelerated in the last few years - as per my geometry discussion thread.
Oh well looks like I’m wrong then and the Jeffsy is some dainty, short little XC/trail bike, lol
I don't think anyone said that, did they? But I do find that people using strawman arguments like yours tend to be quite irrational and binary thinking which ties in with your "Jeffsy has gone all Enduro“ when in reality most of the range and geo hasn't changed and the Jeffsy can be bought with a 34mm Fox fork. Not exactly Enduro, is it?
It's entirely possible to judge a trail bike by riding it without preconceptions while ignoring the marketing side of things. But it's probably easier to make sweeping statements about a bike without riding it and conveniently call the marketing "BS". Classic resistance to change.
I think the head angle will be a bit slacker than my Titus too, hopefully not too much as I liked how it ride - was about 66 degrees as I had a too-long fork in it
I'd never really looked at reach and head angle before.... Not quite nerdy enough. I did enjoy the geometry on a Genesis Tarn I rode though
Classic resistance to change.
No you've got me all wrong. I'm all for change when I can see the point in it. I was an early adopter of 29" wheels, dropper posts, 1x chainrings and wide bars. I also welcomed slacker, lower, longer geometry to a point. I'm just not buying into the current fashion of "enduro" inspired trail bikes. Maybe I misjudged the Jeffsy, but I was focused on the top end builds, which are definitely leaning toward mini enduro bikes. People are also posting weights well north of 30 lbs for the pro carbon build, which put me off it as a trail bike.
“Jeffsy has gone all Enduro“ when in reality most of the range and geo hasn’t changed
I could have sworn the 2019 models grew about 2 inches longer reach and wheelbase. Maybe I imagined it? Along with all the reviews discussing the pros and cons of the changes e.g.
https://enduro-mtb.com/en/yt-jeffsy-2019/
No the Geo definitely has changed for 2019 - they're much longer than before. However...
The Jeffsy isn't a 120/130mm trail bike for certain, but then the term 'trail bike' covers a lot of ground these days, basically everything inbetween an XC/downcountry 100/120mm bike and the 160/170+mm enduro bikes. So for me a trail bike is something that with 130-150mm travel, decent at pedalling, light enough to ride all day and capable enough of handling 90% of trails.
All bikes are getting longer in travel, XC bikes with 120mm, trail bikes with 160mm, enduro bikes with 180mm. If you are still of the opinion a trail bike has no more than 130mm travel, then you ned to get with the times 😉 😀
A Canyon Spectral is a trail bike with 150/160mm travel, and so is a Canyon neuron with 130mm travel. They're just different trail bikes.
So for me a trail bike is something that with 130-150mm travel, decent at pedalling, light enough to ride all day and capable enough of handling 90% of trails.
Agreed completely. I just tend to think that the shorter travel, more conservative geo end of that "trail bike" spectrum is what would actually work best for about 90% of the trail riding population. Especially since those bikes are already considerably longer, lower and slacker than they were only a couple of years ago. Are the trails we ride every day really getting that much harder? Or is there really no compromise at all in choosing an ever bigger bike?
A Canyon Spectral is a trail bike with 150/160mm travel, and so is a Canyon neuron with 130mm travel. They’re just different trail bikes.
Again I totally agree. I chose the 130 mm Neuron on the basis that it has geo very similar to my 4 year old 160 mm Enduro. It's actually a fraction longer! The Neuron may be billed as a mellow, conservative XC/Trail bike today, but yesterday it would have been considered pretty hardcore. The Spectral would be too much bike for my needs and I'm not exactly aversed to the steep and rough. I'm just realistic in my aspirations and skill/balls ratio. I'm also conscious of how much pedalling I have to do on my local trails.
The assumption that a 150mm Spectral is no good for pedalling is quite ridiculous, particularly if you haven't ridden it.
Just ride what you like, don't be "just curious" and ignore the marketing. It's that simple.
The assumption that a 150mm Spectral is no good for pedalling is quite ridiculous, particularly if you haven’t ridden it.
I never made any such assumption. Do you just like an argument? I'm sure the Soectral pedals very well for a 160/150 mm hardcore trail bike. But I can safely assume the latest Neuron will pedal even better on most trails and certainly the ones I ride regularly. Again it's all relative and no bike is brilliant at everything.
It’s simply a matter of priorities. Current bikes have a broader breadth of abilities due to better geometry for descending and climbing and better suspension for pedalling and bump absorption.
You can choose to trail ride on anything bar a DH bike, from a rigid singlespeed to a 170mm full-sus enduro monster. In fact I’ve seen that wide a variety of bikes on our group rides on twisty woodland singletrack.
Just because you might prefer something more XC than DH oriented doesn’t mean that the magazines are drinking the kool aid or that other riders are deluded fools buying whatever they’re marketed. Sometimes I like pootling uphill and thrashing downhill, sometimes I want to go fast everywhere, sometimes I’m just into more chilled flow, etc etc.
There is something very pleasant about the not quite full-enduro end of the trail bike spectrum, that ~150mm travel, 1200+ wheelbase, ~65 deg head angle, in the ability to take on any tech rough steep downhill with confidence yet still swoop along singletrack, and pedal up perfectly well. Yes you’re not going to win any races and you’re unlikely to set any KOMs unless the trails are pretty gnarly but that doesn’t mean they’re horrible to ride round the woods!
You can choose to trail ride on anything bar a DH bike, from a rigid singlespeed to a 170mm full-sus enduro monster. In fact I’ve seen that wide a variety of bikes on our group rides on twisty woodland singletrack.
Nothing new there. It's been like that for as long as I can remember. A very talented teenager in our group often rode his full on DH bike around the likes of Thetford and Swinley just so he could launch it off everything in sight. You might argue he was over-biked unless you saw the kind of improvised gap jumps he was doing.
I've always preferred longer travel trail bikes myself, having not ridden anything with less than 6" travel for the last 15 years. But now I feel that modern 5" bikes are more than enough for anything short of proper EWS terrain. Maybe the top 5% of riders might feel under gunned for pushing the limits, but the rest are just pretending unless their local trail is Fort William.
Just as 160 mm bikes are getting easier to pedal, shorter travel bikes are getting even easier and more capable of taking on the rough stuff. But the trails are not changing very much at all outside of race courses.
Went into Edinburgh Bike Coop to take a look at the Whyte 905 today (just in case the Bird Zero is rubbish or whatever) and saw an ex-demo Specialized Turbo Levo Comp for £2500. Looked brand new (guessing the demos are around the Meadows) and would have warranty/shop back up.
Gah - tempting!
Wait til you've ridden the Bird a couple of times then think of all the money you've saved. Loving mine.
“I’ve always preferred longer travel trail bikes myself, having not ridden anything with less than 6″ travel for the last 15 years. But now I feel that modern 5″ bikes are more than enough for anything short of proper EWS terrain. Maybe the top 5% of riders might feel under gunned for pushing the limits, but the rest are just pretending unless their local trail is Fort William.“
So you’ve always had at least 6” of travel but now that you’ve decided that you want less, then suddenly 95% of riders are “just pretending”?
Maybe you shouldn’t be judging competent riders if you’re a rider who says (to quote yourself) “I tend to ride mostly seated both up and down”? I mean WTF?!! Sitting down when going downhill?!!
“ an ex-demo Specialized Turbo Levo Comp for £2500”
My hardtail is a fairly awesomely spec’d Bird Zero AM. My full-sus is a base Turbo Levo with some choice upgrades. If you’re willing to chuck a big bike about then I really can’t fault it and it would be my one bike if I had to choose.
So you’ve always had at least 6” of travel but now that you’ve decided that you want less, then suddenly 95% of riders are “just pretending”?
Maybe you shouldn’t be judging competent riders if you’re a rider who says (to quote yourself) “I tend to ride mostly seated both up and down”? I mean WTF?!! Sitting down when going downhill?!!
I'm just saying 6" bikes have now grown way beyond anything I would ever need and would certainly slow me up compared to the latest crop of shorter travel bikes. But obviously I'm not in your kind of league. Happy to go for a ride though if you are ever around Woburn, so you can give me some riding tips.
I love that while people used to talk about how bikes felt to ride, now things just resolve into a endless statistical deluge of geometry figures: 'My reach is longer than yours etc'
ps: moshimonster, if it makes you feel better, I can never quite manage to expunge the memory of the video that chiefgroovewotnot once posted of himself nose-diving off a drop and straight over the bars. I kind of read anything he posts in the context of that, which may be unfair, but there you go 🙂
"ps: moshimonster, if it makes you feel better, I can never quite manage to expunge the memory of the video that chiefgroovewotnot once posted of himself nose-diving off a drop and straight over the bars. I kind of read anything he posts in the context of that, which may be unfair, but there you go 🙂"
I can never quite manage to expunge your response to that video and your consistently ****tish responses to my posts since then. Clearly you've never made a foolish mistake riding a bike as an exhausted new parent or learnt anything from any mistakes and become a better rider.
I can never quite manage to expunge your response to that video and your consistently **** responses to my posts since then. Clearly you’ve never made a foolish mistake riding a bike as an exhausted new parent or learnt anything from any mistakes and become a better rider.
I just find it all a bit incongruous that's all. I'm sure you're a much better rider than me and most of the other posters on here, but when you do the whole riding geometry expert thing, I just can't help remembering that video, which was proper nasty. Maybe that reflects more on me than you. Anyway, sorry if I caused offence. It genuinely wasn't meant in a nasty way.
I was recently very tempted by the new Radon Slide Trail. 29er, carbon front triangle and good spec for the money, start at under 2300 euros. In the end I decided I couldn't justify spending that amount so got a second hand hardtail. Still list after one though. They're very well thought of in Germany and starting to make more of an impression abroad.
"I’m sure you’re a much better rider than me and most of the other posters on here"
I doubt it, I'm an ok rider but I'm not an AWFUL rider. There's some really good riders on here!
"...when you do the whole riding geometry expert thing"
I'm a much better coach and engineer than I am athlete - when friends who are better riders than me are riding well I can see what they're doing and explain it to them, even though they don't realise it. I powerlift (badly) too and again I have a very good technical understanding and can analyse and advise lifters from beginners to a fairly high level, I just have that kind of eye and brain.
I'm the same when watching the World Cup DH - before the split times come up I can usually tell who's on a good run, better than the commentators. Sadly, this ability does not cross over into my sporting ability, where although I can be fairly good at something, put me in a high pressure sport situation like a race or competition and my brain goes all screwy and I totally forget how to perform (see old video disaster). Thankfully when playing bass, I'm not like that, I actually have a talent for making music happen (but I'm much better at making money from designing musical gear than making music!)
"Anyway, sorry if I caused offence. It genuinely wasn’t meant in a nasty way." Thank you, sorry for getting so wound up.
I think some of it is that internet thing where if you were one of my riding bunch in real life, we'd make fun of you - and each other - in a gentle way, but it would be really obvious that it wasn't meant maliciously. Sometimes that doesn't quite work on here 🙁
I still don't get all the geometry stuff though. It's just a string of random figures to me, though I get the basic idea. Just...
I was riding in Cumberland, British Columbia last week and hired a Marin Alpine Trail 7 for a day. It's brilliant! The bike I do most of my riding on has a frame only RRP similar to the full bike price, and to be honest it isn't much better or lighter. For your budget and requirements I think it would be ideal.
Tredz seem to have a 19" one in stock for £2,295.
I really liked the look of those Marin Alpine Trails too... I've always wanted a Marin since I was a kid. Before I decide to go cheaper I got put off the Marin due to all the marketing and reviews describing it as a good bike for "gravity oriented ridding"... Which didn't sound like what I do...
Finally got a chance to take the Bird Zero TR I got out today, after fixing an issue with the shifter and putting new brake pads in. The ad said the headset needed replacing, but it was just done up too tight. Like most things on it - previous owner must have been a gorilla.
Overall... It seems quite like my old bike. Which is good, as I liked my old bike. The head angle doesn't seem slacker. It should be, but then I'd raked the Titus out a little.
Wheelbase seems shorter and it's maybe a tiny little bit more nimble through tighter berms etc. Maybe not quite as fast rolling. The Brand X dropper is nicer than the Gravity Dropper I had before. The SLX brakes aren't quite as nice as the Hopes on my old bike.
The X Fusion shock isn't quite as stiff as my old Pike and was harder to get the air pressure right - full travel felt wallowy, taughter meant not getting full travel off jumps. Might replace this part some day
I do like the shorter seatpost though, can get further down for steep bits.
Overall, it's pretty competent in an unremarkable way, which, for £650, suits me fine!
I have a 2 month old Trance 2 for sale in the classifieds for £1500 that I paid £2400 for but have only rode twice.
https://singletrackmag.com/classifieds/advert/giant-trance-2-2019/
Thanks for the offer, but I already got a new bike