[Closed] finally got a road bike

that looks very tidy indeed,enjoy 🙂

Hope you enjoy it, one of my collogues started out on that bike or at least a version of it from a couple of years back. He did LEJOG on it and has now upgraded to something a lot nicer through the cycle to work scheme.

Any tips on setting bar angles etc please guys? Didn't get shop to build it so it's all boxed up etc. Obviously I can put a bike together but not sure on car position with these bendy ones.

er, as a rough guide, try having the brake levers vertical? - and the end of the 'drops' roughly horizontal / pointing slightly down.

(but pointing backwards, obviously)

aim to get the levers in such a position that it's comfy to 1-finger-brake-on-the-end-of-the-lever when you're in the drops.

the problem with roadie levers is that they're taped-in. and your natural reluctance to take off the perfectly good bar tape will limit your set-up options.

get stuck in, and take the tape off, re-taping the bars will be good for you!

just my tuppence, etc.

The photo in your link gives a pretty good starting point.

Bike finally arrives with me today.

Lots of reports on tyres and punctures with these, any recommendations for a puncture resistant winter based treaded tyre that won't break the bank please guys ?

I like conti gp4seasons. Not cheap but much gripper than gatorskins. You don't need tread unless you're taking it off road.

Schwalble Blizzards, cheep and as good as most of the other options.

PX Rage K's. 25mm. Like gators but with grip, and £12 a pop. Brilliant tyres.

Conti Gatorskins work well enough for me all year round.

Remember, you can re-use bar tape quite a few times. Do what awhiles says.

Bike is now together and built and minor road tested. Only 200m to check it has gears etc, all fine and dandy.

Happily it all fits into the storage perfectly along with my bike, wifes bike and the boys bike..

First thing I did notice is that flats make a MASSIVE difference to my comfort, be it 100% or 50% psychological, whatever the reason I just don't get on with being attached to the bike, I was doing little figure 8's happily on this which always pretty much freaked me out on the previous roadbike. It's deffo re-inforced my decision that i'll be sticking with flats, not going full SPD-SL or whatever. Some things are right for 99.99% of people... I think I'm just the little bit that doesn't...

It's really worth getting used to clips!

Maybe one day, not currently though.

Tried them on last road bike and on xtc29. Never liked them at all. For the loss in performance I'll take the increase in coinfiudence

Confidence comes with practice...

Have fun with the new toy!

molgrips - Member

Confidence comes with practice...

Of course, but you have the time before the confidence of 'hate' and I don't want to put myself off the idea, the road bike has many potential uses over the next couple of years, so don't want to sell it after 3-4 rides again.

Well today was the Carreras debut ride... I wasn't sure whether this should go in the Overall Mileage thread, the average speed or somewhere else...

So I thought I'd put it in the bike buying thread...

We started out with a short steep killer hill called Apple Pie hill. Bottom to top it's about 1.1km with a STEEP kick 3/4 up to the top, then some straights, with minor ups and downs, mostly flat overall though. Then through to a hill up to Upper Basildon, once again I ran out of gears... and lungs/heart rate chasing Crosshair... We then made a few bad decisions.... well I did.. I picked the wrong road and we ended up down MTB roads lol. (Sorry matey), with a 2 min rest sitting in a hedge as a motorhome came up with 1" to spare either side so we had to jump into the hedge to get out of the way and wait a while... .then onto what Crosshair called Streatley Shallow Hill... I tried and tried to hang onto his wheel but about 1/3 of the way up I lost 1 bike, then 1 more... then more... then had to drop a gear and lost more.... we rekon it was about 40s by the end of the hill to the top... Lastly it was onto a fast twisty section through Aldworthand to Hampstead Norrys.... I lost about 10 lengths to him but then seemed to maintain that mostly overall. Until the descent into Hampstead Norrys where he pulled out some more on the down.

I don't have the stats on the hills, but we finished at just on 15mph and 1hr 3 mins, we then split and head home but I couldn't time the last part as I'd have lost my Endomondo data, I had the wrong phone so couldn't upload it to WWW. I'm sure Crosshair has more detailed stats though.

So, how was the bike... well, interestingly a LOT better than the Wilier I owned, at least in comfort and rideability etc. I was a lot more at home on it than on the other one, I didn't have any fear and worries like last time. So of course overall I really enjoyed myself. Gears need some indexing but apart from that I was pretty happy with the new bike.

The last interesting thing was regarding 'training' which makes me realise why/how the Roadies are just so bloody quick and fit. In simple terms on a MTB you're on/off a lot of the time and the 'off' time the heart rate can drop down to 100bpm or even less, but on the Road stuff it's just constant... power, pressure, heart, bang bang bang. I sincerely believe that it's likely to be massively better to train on the road than on the MTB. I can totally get it. Whether I can replicate the ride on my own instead of being pushed by a mate and some friendly competition is open to debate. But i'll certainly try my best... I'll also not pick the route with massive hills going upwards and ridiculous decents on gravel tracks LOL.

Thanks to a mate I've just got myself 700gr saved on my wheelset.

Basically the Carrera wheel comes with a bolt on weirdy shimano 7 speed cassette, he brought round a pair of wheels I can have, but has an 8 speed on there, sadly they changed the spacing slightly, but doesn't matter as it's only a 26T cassette anyway. Quick check on Halfords and you can get a 11-28T Shimano standard style cassette for £11.36 Which will do me just fine.

I could have got a 12-32T for the same money but you'd have all accused me of being a big girl... so stuck with the 28T.

Overall saving in weight...710gr... for less than £12 !

You are going to find the road bike so addictive. Solo rides on a road bike arent like solo rides on a mtb, that can become a bit boring without company.
On the road you are always chasing something to keep you focused .. even if its only your time from before.

Enjoy.

Will be interested to be kept abreast of developments.

At that price it seemed rude not to get it ! My bad knees wouldn't lend themselves well to clip-ons plus staying with flats would save £75 on shoes.

How did you find the gearing on climbs ? Enough low gears ?

I use an 11-28 10speed cassette with a 50/34 compact chainset. I live and ride in the Pennines so have plenty of steep hills to test myself on & have only cracked on one hill (Church Lane just before Hebden Bridge for those that know it) so you should be fine with a 28t bottom gear - I'm assuming you have a compact chainset too?

I've noticed a massive increase in fitness since getting a road bike, you are correct in that its far more constant than the MTB. For example, last Sunday i rode 62 miles and 4800+ft of climbing without stopping for a coffee/meal break etc, just a couple of cereal bars along the way.
This time last yr that would have crippled me!
When you are ready i would advise some form of computer/GPS that monitors your ride, trying to maintain an average speed really does help improve your stamina as well as your speed. I'm not fast but I'm averaging 17.5-18.5mph on solo rides of around 40 miles now, dependent on route/weather conditions of course, which is a big improvement on where i started from.
Good luck and enjoy yourself 🙂

Distance29.31 km
Duration1h:04m:42s
Avg. Speed27.2 km/h
Max. Speed45.8 km/h
Calories1278 kcal
Hydration1.16L
Min. Altitude121 m
Max. Altitude253 m
Total Ascent405 m
Total Descent416 m

converted to mph it works out at 16.91mph !Arses ! I wanted a 17.0 !!! But to be honest I'm pretty happy with that. Wasn't the hilliest route in the world, but a couple of decentish climbs in there. Worked bloody hard, but had the wrong phone with me for HR monitoring.

I also managed my first time on the drops, along with my first drink while moving 🙂

Sounds like you're getting into it.

Try toeclips if you can't handle SPD pedals.

You will get nods from old timers then.

Sounds like you're getting into it

Its a different kettle of fish to last time. I felt like I was 100% out of control on the last bike. On this I'm fairly happy.

I'm picking my CX bike up next week. Hoping I'll get used to drop bars, as they felt very odd (comfortable on the tops though) on the test ride! Have you mastered braking without shifting yet? 😕

I've not mastered anything mate! Mostly just pedaling hard and praying for the best!

Did a 50km road ride with what I thought was just me and one of the locals at first but ended up being 6 of us. Good route and roads I know fairly well. Ending up with the infamous Streatley hill right near the end.
Continued enjoying the bike and considering it's arguably a 230 quid bike it did really well. Although apparently my wheels are now worth more than my bike is ha ha.
Averages I couldn't really do very well as we had 3 chat stops and my software doesn't do just the moving time like strava does. So the average came in at 23kmh but what our moving time/speed was I don't know.
I did pretty well on flat speed. Pretty well on downhill but suffered on some of the long steeper climbs. Can't even blame my weight really as with 2 of the lads in the 6'4 bracket I doubt I'm the heaviest. But there's not much in it. But they have better climbing than me for sure.

Max speed was 68.00kmh which is 42mph ! I'm happy with that as it never felt too scary.

Confidence was high and I was happy riding close and taking the slipstream.

All in all a very nice start to the day

Thought I'd continue the thread instead of opening a new can of worms...

I know we've had this discussion before on here... but hey, that's never stopped people before has it ?

So, we're onto the SPD-SL thought patterns.

When I owned (for a short time I admit) the Wilier Escape last time, I felt VERY precarious on it constantly, never really feeling at home. I put part of that down to moving very quickly to SPD-SL, I'm a flat person by nature and only run flats on all MTBs, so the move to SPD-SL was I felt at the time too big a jump.

Now I'm riding the Carrera and I feel considerably more happy with the bike/handling/etc, so feel that potentially a pair of SPD-SL wouldn't be the complete disaster of last time. Would also give me the opportunity for winter overshoes to keep me warmer when training.

Now, I guess the question next is pretty subjective... but does moving to a pair of SPD-SL's actually benefit performance in any real world way ? I don't want to get into the whole SPD debate regarding the amount of pedal revolution you're using power for etc. But maybe due to their nature they help with climbing for example ? or encourage certain pedalstrokes that on a road bike uses specific muscles that you don't ordinarily use, but ..... etc etc

90% plus or serious road cyclists use clip less pedals..... Must be something in it . Lol

I personally have only ever ridden a road bike with spd ..... Just generally more officiant feel to things and you very quickly get used to being clipped to the bike and unclipping for junctions etc I becomes second nature

90% plus or serious road cyclists use clip less pedals..... Must be something in it . Lol

Agree, hence my musing...

So, we're onto the SPD-SL thought patterns.

Have we not been here before with hora a few weeks ago? 🙂

I have also fairly recently taken up road biking to improve my general fitness. SPD Sl's are in my opinion essential for road biking not just for efficiency but also for comfort, my bike came with the cheap shimano SPD pedals and I have literally upgraded them to SPD-SL., I would suggest to build your confidence try MTB shimano SPD's as you can clip in on both sides of the pedal which makes it much easier when pushing off. My initial impressions of the SPD-SL's are they take a little more foot control to get the cleat into the pedal however are more comfortable on a ride giving a larger foot contact area much like a flat pedal. I would say it was the first time of using the SL's on Sunday so with some more practice expect to become a bit slicker at clipping in. For your first clip in experience I would suggest going for MTB SPDS to build your confidence and get used to the feel.

They can improve efficiency once you learn to pedal 'in circles' i.e. using leg muscles for the entire stroke (not just a case of pushing down/pulling up. The stiff soles on the shoes also, in theory, give better power transfer too.

I find they help with steep stuff too as they feel a lot more stable when you have to get out of the saddle.

Have we not been here before with hora a few weeks ago?

Dunno mate, will have a search, but don't recall the thread.

They can improve efficiency once you learn to pedal 'in circles' i.e. using leg muscles for the entire stroke (not just a case of pushing down/pulling up. The stiff soles on the shoes also, in theory, give better power transfer too.

I thought that the "pulling up" thing had been debunked. Some people confuse pulling up with a good pedalling technique (i.e. smooth action rather than just pushing down)

I use road specific pedals as I got hotspots with my MTB shoes but I honestly can't say I have more power or anything like that

A good chunk of the reason I was debating them was the compatibility with overshoes.... I plan on doing a fair bit of my riding in what's likely to be pretty chilly conditions over winter, so I felt this was a good solution to that.
The speed/power debate doesn't really come into play massively at this stage, I'm a long way off a decent pace and I don't feel a pair of pedals and shoes will massively affect that.

speed/power debate

Studies have shown this to be mostly a myth i believe, with about 96-98% of the power coming from the downstroke. The lifting leg is really doing not much more than getting out of the way. Regardless, anyone who's tried both for any length of time will almost certainly say that clipless pedals are vastly better on the road (feel, connection to the bike, etc.)

Regardless, anyone who's tried both for any length of time will almost certainly say that clipless pedals are vastly better on the road (feel, connection to the bike, etc.)

Yeah but the vast majority of them say that about MTB SPD's too, but I didn't really get on with them either... (although we could easily have the same argument of me not giving them enough opportunity to really be honest)

I thought that the "pulling up" thing had been debunked. Some people confuse pulling up with a good pedalling technique (i.e. smooth action rather than just pushing down)

That's why I said "in circles" and "not just a case of pushing down/pulling up". It's why many pros now use those elliptical rings to maximise the efficiency of the full pedal stroke.

Elliptical rings are still all about the downstroke, just increases the gearing at the most powerful part of the downstroke.

Yeah but the vast majority of them say that about MTB SPD's too,

I think with MTB it's more application specific. I use both flats and clipless depending on what sort of riding I'm doing. You won't find any debate regarding clipless vs flats amongst road riders.

Lets be honest lads... I'm fat, 42 and riding about in West Berks. I'm not going to get the maximum from a finite detail of pedalling efficiency of elliptical rings etc.

But that said.. if I'm missing out on say 10% or 15% of my potential.... then I'd certainly consider laying out a few £$£

If you have stiff shoes you should be fine.

Looks to me that your avg for the loop is very respectable 27+ kph. I also ride this route, often starting up Applepie hill.
If you made it up Streatley hill in good time you are doing fine. I'd also recommend spd's.

I'd do whatever makes you happy - flats, baggies, a peak on your helmet, a Camelbak, whatever. I wouldn't use any of those myself on the road, I value the security of clipless pedals on rougher surfaces along with the biomechanical consistency of a repeatable foot/pedal position etc, but it's your call.

If you do go clipless, try backing the tension right off for the first few rides so you can unclip easily and also maybe spend a dull ten minutes leaned against a wall just clipping and unclipping your standing leg until it starts to feel like a more natural process and you do it automatically.

One of the old boys in my club, who was riding road bikes long before my stabilisers were off, reckons clipless pedals are the single best bike invention he witnessed (he's not old enough for gears or pneumatic tyres to be considered within his timeframe, but it might have been close 😉 )

His take on pedaling in circles is that it's not an action of pulling up on the back stroke that you need, rather a pulling through on the underside, between about 7 o'clock and 5 o'clock. Like Ken says - as if you're scraping dog shit off your shoe. It might 'only' add a few % extra but I'd be happy with a few % extra when I need it most.

And the tip for practicing it, is one legged pedaling. Not sure how easy that is on flats, I've never really used them since taking up cycling properly, but get on a flat bit of road or fireroad and unclip one foot and do sets with each leg, to give you the feeling of the motion you're looking for.

Metasequoia - Member

Looks to me that your avg for the loop is very respectable 27+ kph. I also ride this route, often starting up Applepie hill.

Shout if you fancy a pootle mate, email in profile. I live not far off the bottom of AP Hill. There's a decent bunch of road riders around here in the village too (email system for arranging weekly meets)

I'm fat, 42 and riding about in West Berks. I'm not going to get the maximum from a finite detail of pedalling efficiency of elliptical rings etc.

That's exactly why you'd benefit - you need it made as easy and efficient as possible 🙂

SPDs really come into their own when spinning along at 80-90rpm. It's sooo much more of a complete circular movement - I can't imagine doing it on flats. The idea of riding a road bike on flats just seems so wrong.

Plus the stiffness of road shoes is massively useful. They are completely rock solid so far stiffer than even stiff flat shoes. If I had to choose one piece of cycling specific clothing to wear, I'd choose the shoes without a thought. I'd rather ride 100km in a 3 piece suit with SPDs than full lycra with flats.

SPDs are on offer lately on Wiggle at £20, it'd be rude not to at that price.

plenty of places have the pedals for that money at the moment yes, but then you add in a pair of shoes at £50 and a pair of overshoes at £15 and it's getting more expensive.

I'm watching a few pairs of slightly used SPD-SL's at the moment and hope to potentially save a few sheckles that way.

but then you add in a pair of shoes at £50 and a pair of overshoes at £15 and it's getting more expensive.

Says the man that is going to drive all weekend to [s]walk[/s] pedal up some hills 😉 🙂

I've been using flat pedals for years on my road bike, nuts to what everyone else says! I've got SPD-SL's too (i found them better than SPDs) and the *only* time i felt they offered a real advantage is in a sprint finish in a race.

At all other times i think the efficiency is only an very minor negligible benefit, and didn't seem to affect average times over longer distances at all.

IMO - don't use stiff shoes with flat pedals. They work differently, the pedal is much larger and acts as the stiff bit.

then you add in a pair of shoes at £50 and a pair of overshoes at £15 and it's getting more expensive.

Not compared to the rest of your bike. And you don't need overshoes yet anyway, not cold enough.

SPDs really come into their own when spinning along at 80-90rpm. It's sooo much more of a complete circular movement - I can't imagine doing it on flats.

Poor technique 😉 Seriously though, if you can spin flat pedals well then you'll be making better circles when clipped in.

the *only* time i felt they offered a real advantage is in a sprint finish in a race

Check out the sprint out of the gate in BMX, all done on flats, cadences up to around 200rpm.

There's a decent bunch of road riders around here in the village too (email system for arranging weekly meets)

That out near Compton?

Yup.

I'm down in Newbury. You riding with crosshair? Did mean to go for a ride with him a while back but never quite managed it. Newbury RC are a good bunch, as are Didcot Phoenix, if you fancy that sort of thing.

mrblobby - Member

I'm down in Newbury. You riding with crosshair? Did mean to go for a ride with him a while back but never quite managed it. Newbury RC are a good bunch, as are Didcot Phoenix, if you fancy that sort of thing.

Yup, I know him fairly well 🙂 We were out the other day and he trounced me !!!! I'm coming for his crown though once he gets past his peak and starts slobbing round and getting fat again

I don't forsee me doing 'club' stuff, the social group here is plenty for me, has a mix of a couple of obviously seasoned ex-racers, a couple of big strong ox's and a couple of fat wannabees 😉 like me.

So, I imported the weekend ride into Strava purely out of interest.

I didn't set ANY records compared to my PBs on the climbs, I was between 50s and 1min slower on the major uphills than my previous best, which was probably set on my Giant XTC29er.

On Crosshairs "Drag out of Hermitage" I set a 1min 59. However TBH I was tiring a little by then as it was in the 2nd half of my ride. It put me a 480 out of 994 on Strava.

I have to say, I'm pretty bloody disappointed in the results... irrespective of what bike I was on, how far I'd ridden or the fact I was tired by then... .that's simply not good enough. (The 1min off my best, not the 480-994)

Grrrrr. thanks to you lot I now own some VERY lairy shoes

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shimano-cycling-shoes-/261579172948?autorefresh=true&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=PDkC4NJmL78gNdP7Xi3iefJTqyY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

I have to say, I'm pretty bloody disappointed in the results... irrespective of what bike I was on, how far I'd ridden or the fact I was tired by then... .that's simply not good enough. (The 1min off my best, not the 480-994)

How long ago was that best? How's your fitness in comparison? Heavier? What was the context of the best effort? Was there much difference in conditions?

How long ago was that best? How's your fitness in comparison? Heavier? What was the context of the best effort? Was there much difference in conditions?

1 1 Aug 2013 6:38 8.4km/h
2 31 Aug 2014 7:30 7.4km/h

So about a year. Weight is about 2.5Kg heavier after a recent holiday... not that much I'd have thought. Bike was obviously different, I'd have been on a Spearfish that day I think as it would have been my MTB at that time. Conditions would have been distinctly similar although I expect I may have taken it easy and gone out with a direct goal of beating my best time on that climb as I was competitive with mate. Sundays was the latter part of a 50km ride.

I'm still unhappy either way...

Is that Streatley? That is pretty steep so weight makes a big difference. Also gearing on mtb may be more favourable for something that steep. Also as you say a bit more fatigue in the legs.

Yup that's the Streatley hill climb.

Just looking back at my times, I did that hill on two rides a month or so apart, one was a quick 30 mile loop, the other towards the end of a hilly 70 mile loop. The latter effort was 1:40 slower than the former. Point is Streatley hill is quite a test and a bit of fatigue (and whether you are pushing it!) can result in some big time differences.

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I'd be up for some 'STW does roady' local meets once the Brecon Beast is out the way.

Sorry Weeksy- Last years lapse was due to having a massive hernia so you'd better improve fast if you want to get back in front 😉

I ride Mtb SPD's on my road bike plus baggyish shorts and a visor 😉

I'm sure you will get used to them but your cadence is good without them and that guy on Tour de Berkshire on that weird bike was running flats.

SO today I replicated last Fridays ride.

some subtle differences today... I was a bit more used to the bike.... also I was running SPD-SL shoes/pedals. bought a pair of new Shimano R088 shoes and the R054 pedals that are doing the rounds at the moment everywhere. I felt better climbing and getting more drive. The pedals give you/me a bit of a numb toes feeling, so need to work on that. Didn't cause me any confidence or stability issues though which was good.

Overall speed today was 17.212mph. Which is better than the other day, but not by a huge amount. Felt a bit more windy on the way out/up today than last week though.

If you're getting numb toes then first thing would be to slacken off the front/middle strap a bit and see how you go on.
Next would be to look where you've fitted the cleats and consider moving them back towards the middle of the shoe. I know you can't actually mount them there but move them back a bit of the strap adjustment doesn't work for you.

You might also be 'gripping' with your toes a bit.

I'd be up for some 'STW does roady' local meets once the Brecon Beast is out the way.

Would be up for that 🙂

Thanks guys. I'll look into that.

Reading based, Newbury for work, closet Roadie here and I have been pootling about on a Carrerra "vanquish" for quite some time, just in the process of upgrading to something posher.

As for pedals, M520s and a good XC shoe are probably more than adequate, but I am going to start trying SPD SL now as well.

I Would also be up for a STW, Berkshire chapter, road bimble at some point (schedules permitting)...

Today was a 64km pootle taking in West Berks, Wantage, Newbury etc.

I need to ride smarter, not necessarily quicker. Once again I hit the pace too hard too fast. The pace overall was a chunk quicker than last week, up, down, flat, it was just harder. I found myself in no-mans land far too often. Out of the 6 riders there was Crosshair, Mike and James, all powering on. Flat speed I can pretty much match Crosshair at times, but then as soon as we hit a hill. *BOOM* I'm out the back and off the pace and left for dead. Now, often you could say "yeah well you're a big lad, what else could be expected"... but... I'm not the biggest... the 2 front-runners are both likely carrying more actual weight than me. Admittedly, they're training freaks at the moment putting in ridiculous hours/miles. You can easily tell.

Finding myself in no mans land meant I spent a fair chunk of time pounding out the miles alone. Crosshair was 100-200m ahead, Ben and our very experienced back-marker (who helps drag people back to the pace) were about the same sort of distance behind me, so I was doing all the work on my own.

Over the course of the ride according to Endomondo I did many PB's.... which is good (although to be expected too), but one was 1hour was 18.125mph for that hour, which I'm exceptionally happy with. Obviously that could have been a fairly flat/down section, but looking at the data/map it did involve 3 decent hills, one out of Wantage and then another just before a massive downhill into Lambourne. Then the fairly flat section that the Tri guys were using in the reverse direction to us.

Another section I did 10 miles in 30mins 58. Mostly alone ... but that's above my maths skills to work out my MPH average hahaha.

After that hour though, I really really struggled... I wouldn't go as far as saying I hit the wall.... but it was certainly a few bricks over there. I just couldn't get the drive/pace any more... standing up instantly dragged my legs into the cramp zone, which wasn't nice. So I left the guys to it and just eased off a little for 3-5km... I eventually made the ground back up, but in no part was there where I'd have done it alone, the lads eased off to make sure I was OK, giving me the opportunity to close back up.

A lot of this fatigue I think is down to 3 causes
1. They're quicker/fitter
2. I pushed too hard too soon
3. I need to ride smarter, not faster.

Or a combination of all 3 to a great extent.

Thouhgt I'd write a quick update on this.

I can't see I've 'got' the road bike thing still in all honesty, but buying it has taught me about my last year or so being almost wasted under training. It's taught me to push harder, longer and faster.

Integrated with the purchase I started back on the 5-2 diet. Along with the highest months mileage I've ever had, plus working hard on the spin bike I'm now setting PR's all the time on the bike, the scales have dropped from 15st 10 down to 14st 12. Which it's hard not to be happy with.

The road bike will remain for now.... but I still don't get it LOL.

Good weight loss, I think youve identified what makes road cycling appeal to many people.

"Hard Work Pays"

Nice one.