You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
My good lady wants a new bike & has narrowed it down between the two.
They are reasonably comparable in terms of price, as it will be a custom build utilising a lot of existing parts as a frame swap. She's a trail rider, who races a handful of enduro's a year, does the standard 2 weeks in the Alps & late season in Finale, for which it will be used for.
I personally can't think of probably two worse brands when it comes to warranty in the not very distant past, although that might be friends and colleagues experiences of dealing (swearing down the phone) at Silverfish for being terminally useless, but I haven't heard any issues of late, really for either brand, so hopefully they have got better?
She would like to build it up as light as possible, keeping the bike under 30lbs, which should be doable on a medium, even if they are chunky frames.
So given the choice, what's the better bike?
I have an Evil Following but this review of the Offering is very positive about the Offering as a general bike for riding around on: https://enduro-mtb.com/en/evil-offering-test/
they're positive about the yeti too: https://www.bikemag.com/gear/mountain-bikes/review-yeti-sb130-xo1-race-turq/
tbh, I'd go for the one you like the colour of 🙂
The mtbr forum is worth a browse re the yeti. Seems there are a few failures cropping up with the SB130 and SB150.
She appreciates the finer things in life, eh? Silverfish-distributed brands do seem to come in at the higher end price-wise.
They do demo events though, so can she pop along to ride them both? I'd not spend that much without a test ride.
I've moved from an sb6c to an offering this year.
The Offering is a bit of a lump in comparison, doesn't spin up as fast and feels less efficient pedalling.
However, point it down and despite being a lower travel bike it absolutely blows my old yeti out of the water- that might be more down to the 29 wheels over the 27.5, but for me it's confidence inspiring.
It's cliche but the evil does really feel more of a fun bike that pops and wheelies/manuals better etc. The BB feels noticeably lower on the Evil and as a result rails corners way better, it does however suffer from pedal strikes a lot.
I love mine. Hands down the best bike ive ever owned.
If I was lighter and less powerful I'd choose the yeti every day though, that switch link really does make them pedal extremely well.
Not a direct comparison but it's my experience going from an sb6c to an Offering.
I've recently demoed SB100 SB130 and an Evil Following. Not quite what you're after but pretty close. Rather than a complex list of pros and cons I'd suggest that if she really cares about enduro results the SB130 might just edge it. If she wants to finish ever ride with a silly grin then get the Evil.
Not much help but my mate has just built up an SB130 - awesome bike.
Thanks everyone. I kind of agree, that both on paper are great bikes and pretty similar in terms of what they are good for.
The MTBR Yeti forum looks like a right bunfight between the superfans & the people with issues. A bit concerning to see a few issues with the new bikes though, that certainly doesn't help the decision making process I don't think.
I think she is swaying towards the Evil, my main concern is the weight - for a 6ft guy at 80kg it's probably less of an issue than it is for a lady of 5'9" and nearly 20kg less. Attempting to hunt out a local dealer with a demo now.
butterbean
The MTBR Yeti forum looks like a right bunfight between the superfans & the people with issues
Yeti are a brand I always associate with issues - there's always been chainstay and swingarm issues, and I know people who have been treated really badly by Yeti on the warranty front. Normally, if someone was choosing between Yeti and any other brand, I'd recommend the other brand. But Evil have arguably the worst history in the business when it comes to warranty and customer service. As you said, i can' tthink of two worse brands.
I'd get her a Hightower
And that post shows how hard it is to change a reputation. Here's a recent thread about Evil warranty:
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/crack-in-carbon-or-just-the-paint
thepurist
And that post shows how hard it is to change a reputation. Here’s a recent thread about Evil warranty:
Absolutely - I hope they're doing better, but personally, I'd never buy one. Things were still bad when they released the Uprising and the original Following (I think they have a newer boost version out now)
I've just got my SB130, I'm more than happy, where are you guys based?
And that post shows how hard it is to change a reputation. Here’s a recent thread about Evil warranty:
??
Which for those that don't read it, shows that Evil dealt with an issue quickly, without any quibbles.
In usual STW fashion, I'm going to say Ripmo...FWIW...
Seems to be coming out top of pretty much every review I've read & I've had no quibbles with Ibis or 2pure.
If weight is a big factor, it may be worth considering the Orange 29ers as well - they really are surprisingly light and pedal exceptionally well so the Stage 6 is very viable as a trail/enduro bike.
And the have a five-year frame warranty (which may well be needed).
Just another one to throw in the mix (along with the Ripmo mentioned above).
The Ripmo was on the list actually, and thought that was in for a shout - originally she didn't consider it because it was kind of marketed as a big enduro bike and in reality it's not, it's a trail bike.
Weight is good, numbers look good, can put a bottle in the right place on it. I may be slightly prejudiced, but it runs on bushes & having had a bike in the past do that, i'm not interested again (and i'll be the one looking after it).
orange is probably a no-go, she can't stand the look of them!
Actually ended up riding an SB130 this weekend & there was a lot of grinning. Don't know what the reality of owning one would be like though, when you need the support.
The location of the fancy suspension gubbins put me off the SB130 - it's right in the line of fire for all the crap thrown up so I just saw it as extra maintenance faffage.
The 'gubbins' is in the same location many manufacturers mount their vertical mount shocks. My 2016 SB6 is still on it's original 'gubbins' but I do admit to spending 30 seconds cleaning it after each weekend.
If you are the type to throw your bike in the shed until next ride then probably not for you - certainly not if you ride all season.
FWIW I had my RipMo apart this weekend. About a year old. Shock out, rear felt very stiff. Thought it was the bushings. Took them out and absolutely zero wear. The bearings on the top link however…. just saved them. Feels lovely again now.
Mate has the 29er Evil and I enjoyed riding that. Feels way more travel that it should be. Felt really solid but still fun.
*Very* late to the party, but thought I'd offer my thoughts. I've been running a RipMo as my all rounder for nearly 18months, for everything from trail and XC, to full on double black Alpine DH, and I have to say it's no simple 'trail bike', it's hugely versatile. With a progressive coil on the back and a 170 fork, it can do anything, a sublime 'Enduro bike', thus why multiply EWS winning. Whereas with an air shock and a 150 or 160 fork, it's a superb trail bike too. Quite an impressive bike, one which I'll be hard parted from.
We also have an Evil Offering in the family too, which I've plenty of hours on too, it's our fourth Evil. Again a brilliant bike, but quite different to the RipMo; not as fast to accelerate or climb on, but more poppy and lively, and just a bit of a hooligan (in a good way). Had a Following, Calling, and Following MB previously. Had two warranty things to sort out with Evil, and both times, they were 5* to deal with. I would have absolutely *no* hesitation buying another. Don't judge them by their history, they're a slick operation now.
Also have time on the SB130 too. Very RipMo-like for acceleration and climbing, but quite firm and not very plush on the DH. the Offering is more plush and planted downhill. A Push 11-6 improves both the Offering and SB130 though.
All great bikes, I'd say decide by what you're after in the ride characteristics.
Merry Xmas anyway!
Don't know how I didn't see this thread originally, but there we go...
Have had my Evil Offering 9 months or so now. It's my 3rd Evil, had the original Following and the Wreckoning too. Without trying to sound cliched, the Offering is everything that was good about both of those bikes, with almost all of the foibles ironed out. I say almost, as it's still not a bike I can happily ride through a muddy UK winter without concern, but it climbs better than the Following (steeper seat angle helps here), descends faster than the Wreckoning (the clocks don't lie!) and it's as much fun as either was if not more so.
Yes, as others have pointed out, it's not as lively a climber as Switch Infinity equipped Yetis are (I spent some time on a mates old SB6c, it staggered me how effective it was uphill, though I never felt as confident descending on it as I was hoping to), but it'll get you to the top fairly efficiently (it's still a better climber than most bikes in its category). On the descents it just comes alive though, it definitely punches above its 140mm travel category and is huge fun at the same time. Some bikes take themselves too seriously, the Offering is not one of them!
Is there a reason she isn't looking at brands with better with reliability, warranty and customer service records? Plenty to chose from at that price point / travel.
Ive had a RipMo, and sold it for an Offering. I had an Insurgent before the RipMo.
I will only buy an Evil in the future. The suspension is simply sublime.
The RipMo is very capable, but nowhere near as much fun. The Offering is immense. I’ve got the DPX2 and 150 36/Bomber Z1 on and its an awesome trail bike - faster than my RipMo was.
@corroded - I think we can move past the whole customer service thing now. Ibis are the best in the business for warranty and CS, and from my experience of Evil in the last three years, they're every bit as good. I tried tons of bikes when I was choosing last time, and whilst there's almost no bad bikes anymore, the old adage 'you get what you pay for' is still generally true, for outright ride quality, with a few exceptions (YT, Canyon, Whyte)
@philstone - agree DELTA suspension is excellent and a little more fun overall. I certainly did *not* find it quicker, nor have the various tests online. Fun, for sure, it's great fun, but faster, no. The RipMo is ridiculously quick up and down, but granted not as poppy. Each to their own though, great time to be riding, no bad choices to be had really!
I think the difference in speed for me is down to the wheelbase. The RipMo is a good 20mm longer than the Offering. It’s surprising how noticeable such a small amount really is on techy trails.
I’d try to get demo ride if I were spending that much. You might e be be able to arrange a back-to-back demo as both brands are with Silverfish.
Personally I don’t think you’d go far wrong with either. I’ve demoed an Evil Following and Wreckoning and would happily own either of them, the suspension design feels really nice out on the trails. I’ve also owned a Yeti SB5 and demoed it against the SB6 and 5.5. Again they were all great rides, it just came down to what suited my riding best in the end. The Switch Infinity system on the Yeti is truly brilliant.
I had no problems at all with my SB5 frame but Silverfish were great with the warranty when my Fox 34’s had issues.
Failing a demo, just go with the colour you like best and enjoy 😊
The Offering has a longer wheelbase than the RipMo, in either Low or X-Low, even with only a 150 fork.
For me, prob explains why it's great downhill, but less so as a fast nimble climber. It's weird how we all prefer and feel different things in the same bikes. I went for the RipMo as it was a better tech bike, I love technical climbing and slow, techy descents. The Offering wasn't as agile in my opinion, but hugely fun when popping around jumps and open tech trails. Both dream bikes. It'll be interesting to see if they steepen the Following's seat angle in 2020, as that was sublime, other than the stupid slack seat position.
I tried a few bikes before settling on an SB130, against my better judgement based on previous experience of Yeti, not that long ago.
The Offering, for a bike on paper that’s very similar, I wasn’t a great fan of, maybe it didn’t suit my style of riding, but I really struggled with the setup of the demo bike and it felt a bit odd, like I wanted the front end slacker (which was my on paper issue with it, not being slack enough). But nevertheless, I couldn’t put my finger on why I didn’t like it, maybe a multitude of a few things.
The Ripmo I couldn’t get on with at all. I’m guessing that also why most of the Ibis team riders went back to the Mojo 😆. That just felt like a weird, big trail bike. The slightly odd regressive suspension curve meant it bottomed out hard, a lot & I wasn’t even pushing on ‘that’ much. Really didn’t like that bike other than it pedalled well.
The SB130 has been really, really good. In fact I’ve just sold my ‘19 frame and replaced with a ‘20 one through the shop I race for because there wasn’t anything else I tried I wanted to replace it with. In the LR setup it has become my only bike, pretty much made my big bike redundant, and I will mess around on it, take it away to the big mountains, race some UK enduros, probably a few DH races & some EWS’s on it.
Really didn’t want to like it, but it’s still the best bike I’ve ever ridden. And unlike Yeti, it’s also been reliable!
Glad the SB130's working out for you @hobnob, I'd defo be running the Lunch ride setup if I had one. For me, it didnt feel as composed on downhills, strange given the SB150 was otherworldly good in that respect. Gotta love the switch infinity though for sure. Short lifespan in UK conditions compared to bushes, but worth the upkeep :tup:
Personally after using the RipMo for nearly two years, I've had no issues with bottoming out on the RipMo with air pressures set right, even with the standard internal spacer? It's even more killer with the Ext Storia Lok shock on it.
As for team riders going back to Mojos, that's the EWS ladies, and the lads only rode the HD5 in the races around the marketing launch of it (wonder why!), Robin and Lewis were mostly back on the RipMo after 😉
Each to their own, all great bikes, each with different strengths and weaknesses, none perfect.
lads only rode the HD5 in the races around the marketing launch of it
that’s not right. Lewis Buchanan raced the HD4 most of the season before switching to HD5. In fact 2/3 of the Elite Ibis team ran HD4/5 (Bec and Lewis) with only Robin Wallner running a Ripmo
@humdinger Yes the RipMo is shorter when looking at the same sizes, but in reality they are not the same sizes - my medium Offering feels the same size as my L RipMo. The M Offering is shorter wheelbase than the L RipMo though.
I also had issue with the shock curve. I sent mine to TF for the ‘19 update and then it was better, but it’s still nowhere near the Delta curve.
@philstone they're almost mm identical in the same sizes, remember I have both in the garage. The Offering just has a longer wheelbase, all the more impressive it gives a poppier ride despite that.
Strange so many didn't get on with the spring curve, doesn't seem to have hampered the ridiculous number of awards it's won! I bloody love it! No hammocking, plenty of support, spritely, and climbs with brilliant traction. Not sure what's not to like. Its sensitive to setup though, took trial and error to nail it just right.
I’d try to get demo ride if I were spending that much. You might e be be able to arrange a back-to-back demo as both brands are with Silverfish.
Given Evil dropped Silverfish and went direct in August 2017, you're almost 2 1/2 years out of date there I'm afraid! Finding an Evil to demo in the UK isn't easy, and it's becoming increasingly harder now several previous Evil dealers have closed down (of which I was one of them) due to various commercial pressures.
The Offering, for a bike on paper that’s very similar, I wasn’t a great fan of, maybe it didn’t suit my style of riding, but I really struggled with the setup of the demo bike and it felt a bit odd, like I wanted the front end slacker (which was my on paper issue with it, not being slack enough). But nevertheless, I couldn’t put my finger on why I didn’t like it, maybe a multitude of a few things.
Odd you say that, because in X-Low (NOBODY runs an Evil Offering in Low! LOL) the Head Angle is only 0.1deg steeper like for like. I'm contemplating putting a -1deg in my Offering at the moment, but more to see what it feels like than because I feel like it needs it. Will keep it in the X-Low position anyway to keep the BB relatively low.
Odd you say that, because in X-Low (NOBODY runs an Evil Offering in Low! LOL) the Head Angle is only 0.1deg steeper like for like. I’m contemplating putting a -1deg in my Offering at the moment, but more to see what it feels like than because I feel like it needs it. Will keep it in the X-Low position anyway to keep the BB relatively low.
LR is half a degree slacker, also use an offset bush as there is the space for the rear whee to take it, so all in its hovering at 64.5 HTA. I only ran the Offering in. X-Low as That was comparable to the Yeti.
Just couldn’t make it work for me, don’t know why. I do like the stiffer approach to suspension that Yeti seem to take, all my previous bike have been set up that way, maybe it just felt more natural 🙂
Dales bike centre selling off a 9 ride old sb130, looks mint.
Large though!
These are exactly the two bikes i am looking at next. Does anybody know of any places that have an offering for demo? I am riding a V1 following atm in XL but not sure whether to go down to a L on the new offering if i go for it over the sb130. I should be able to see a sb130 locally (Bristol) it's just hard to find places with Evil bikes.
What height are you Shasell? The L Offering feels very similar in size to the XL Following V1 and MB. However, the shorter top tube on the L Offering when seated is noticeable and was ultimately too cramped for me at 6'3 so I swapped to the XL.
Does anybody know of any places that have an offering for demo?
Mountain Trax in Berkshire has got all of this thread (yeti, evil, ibis) available for demo so you could ride them all back to back
LR is half a degree slacker
Only because it runs a 10mm longer fork than the normal SB130. That’s why I said “like for like” in my original response. You can put a 160mm fork on an Offering if you choose to... Which... You’ve guessed it... Slackens the HA by approx half a degree! 😉
Just couldn’t make it work for me, don’t know why. I do like the stiffer approach to suspension that Yeti seem to take
Yeah that’s totally fair enough. Yeti do take the racers approach with their bikes for sure, where Evil just male bikes they want to have fun on on their locals trails, and if they happen to be quick too then that’s just an added bonus. Evil still recommends a 51mm offset fork on the Offering which does show their intention somewhat (I plugged a 44mm offset into mine and feel it’s all the better for it myself, but if you want the fastest turning 29er trail bike then by all means stick with a 51). Horses for courses. I’ve always loved the way that Evil manage to make their bikes feel like they’ve got more travel than they actually have, that somewhat cliched “bottomless” travel feeling owing mostly to the DELTA link suspension platform.
(I plugged a 44mm offset into mine and feel it’s all the better for it myself, but if you want the fastest turning 29er trail bike then by all means stick with a 51).
Haven't you got this the wrong way round? The shorter offset quickens the steering feel hence why they're putting them on the more recent long slack bikes. The longer offset works better on a shorter/steeper bike as it adds stability. Or at least that's the guidance i was given by a bike manufacturer of 63.5 degree enduro style bike recently. Flat out fast trails, go with 51, more twisty turning, go with 44.
Haven’t you got this the wrong way round? The shorter offset quickens the steering feel hence why they’re putting them on the more recent long slack bikes. The longer offset works better on a shorter/steeper bike as it adds stability. Or at least that’s the guidance i was given by a bike manufacturer of 63.5 degree enduro style bike recently. Flat out fast trails, go with 51, more twisty turning, go with 44.
I guarantee you I haven't got it wrong! Either you weren't paying full attention, or the manufacturer you were talking to was talking out of their arse (which wouldn't be a surprise!)!
Gary Fisher/Trek originally introduced the "G2" custom offset (51mm) onto their early 29ers some years ago, the idea was to make them more responsive and more "26inch like" in an attempt to entice people off their 26" wheeled bikes and onto 29ers.
A longer offset reduces the trail figure, which quickens the steering and reduces the relative stability somewhat. Of course, it also lengthens the wheelbase a little too, counteracting some of the stability decrease, but only by a miniscule amount by comparison. The shorter offset fork increases the trail figure, which slows down the steering but it also makes the bike more stable as a result. The slight decrease in wheelbase isn't much of a problem for most modern bikes, although if you're on a short/steep bike already, going to a shorter offset has the possibility of introducing the dreaded potential toe overlap.
The recent return to a shorter offset fork on modern 29ers in particular (early 29er forks were typically 42-46mm offset, before 51mm became the "norm") has been in recognition of the inherent benefits of a 29er being desirable to many people anyway, rather than trying to make them something they are not by artificially speeding up the steering geometry with a longer offset fork.
Yep, shorter offset definitely slows and calms the steering feel - going from 51 to 42mm adds almost as much extra trail as you get from slackening the head angle by 1.5 deg.
I swapped the 150mm travel 51mm offset fork on my Levo for a 160mm 42mm Lyrik and it’s a very obvious difference.