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But are you really unable to understand that people other than yourself, men and women included, would object to events trivialising and normalising rape as part of a wider culture in which we all exist, and why such objections might be valid?
Are you aware of how literally important the answer to a rhetorial question is?
^^That, and this, is what contributes to the merry-go-round:
"True so we should call women whores then to avoid this?"
Who actually did that? 😐
I'd sign up for a rapist category (if I raced).
I am not surprised to read that.
(Selective) Quoting out of context: Dick move.
I'd sign up for a rapist category (if I raced). Wouldn't bother me in the slightest, cos I know I'm not one. And anyway it would be "Enduro Rapists" and you can't rape an enduro. Said he, joining in with the merry-go-round of bollocks.
Bollocks you say? alright then, I'll have a spin - no linguistic reason why you can't: you can totally kill it, slay it, shred it, smash it... Rape it? No difference in terms of language use, it's just over the line in terms of acceptability. Hopefully not a temporary thing.
Bollocks? My turn - no linguistic reason why not: you can totally kill it, slay it, shred it, smash it... Rape it? No difference in terms of language use, it's just over the line in terms of acceptability. Hopefully not a temporary thing
Gosh, this is such fun.
Are you aware of how literally important the answer to a rhetorial question is?
Nice. Drop in an analogy of "well, casual use of 'rapist' doesn't bother me, so what's the big deal here?" and then have a sarcastic flounce about it when someone responds to it. Stay classy.
[quote=Northwind ]The relevance is that it proves what a total success the event is despite people's enthusiastic fault finding.
It's a strawman then, because absolutely nobody on this thread has suggested that the event wasn't a success.
Someone else used the anology of 'rapist' in a rhetorical question.
All I'm saying is: See how you get yourself worked up over nothing?
Literally no-one "trivialised rape" (or maybe Junkyard did (twice, by the look of it, inferring that I'm a rapist?))
Amazed this is 7 pages and still going. Yes this isnt clear cut whos right or whos wrong, but actually, the event runs, it sells out, it has positives. Yes its not everyones cup of tea so people get sore butts.
I think the naming was a good piece idea, it would have put off the females with the wrong attitude which would have been detrimental to this event and what the organiser wanted.
julzm - Member
Please take your mock feminist outrage somewhere else and leave this event alone.POSTED 11 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
Yer butt.. are you new here?
It's a bit sad when an event has to use derogatory names for categories which clearly mock Women.
Belittling the feminist revolution over the last 50 years is a bit sad, clearly only appeals to those Women who are bullish enough to shrug it off.
Plenty of Women a bit pissed off by it though.
I mentioned Mumsnet purely to get some balance, on here we are clearly a bunch of hair arsed blokes with a core small group of female posters who actually ride bikes.
Think you'll find the attitude over there might be somewhat more vocal..
Everyone on this thread needs to be killed now, including me.
Alternatively if you're really upset, contact the organisers to complain - or ask your favourite MTB media outlet to report on it.
I'm just gonna file it in the same box as those misguided Cove bike names and get on with my life.
[i]It's a bit sad when an event has to use derogatory names for categories [/i]
This must take us back to page 1.
Literally no-one "trivialised rape"
Let's not get hung up on the pedantry: as far as I can tell you were arguing that the whore/etc labelling is fine on the basis that you personally would be fine with a hypothetical event which hypothetically trivialised rape. And as a logical argument, that only holds up in a wider context if you either can't understand or don't agree with trivialising rape.
Anyhoo… This is becoming an XKCD cartoon.
I think the naming was a good piece idea, it would have put off the females with the wrong attitude which would have been detrimental to this event and what the organiser wanted.
Define 'wrong attitude' please.
Anyhoo… This is becoming an XKCD cartoon.
which one?
But going back to page 1 would be reeeeeedicularse.
We're 8 pages in and still frothing.
I suspect we'll all be here on page 12..
Everyone on this thread needs to be killed now, including me.
Agreed. We've come to comparisons with rape, racism and public executions.
Probably time to calm down.
Everyone on this thread needs to be killed now, including me.
I've just shot myself in the face.
Some people really try sooooo ****ing hard to sound intelligent don't they?
(Selective) Quoting out of context: Dick move.
Its exactly what you said and the context is there.you would sign up as a rapist in a race category if it was offered. its what you said. Bez explained why many of us, but not you because you said so, might be put off.
Who knew it was as simple as call them whores to get them to engage.. i should try this more oftenI do get that 'whore' isn't meant in the usual sense here, it just means someone who can't get enough of racing enduros. Still lame, mind.
Since you need it explained again.
that would be me and the dictionary then and you giving an [credible] explanation of why the other categories[context] are also sexualised words.
its pretty clear they have used sexualised words I dont see the point in trying to pretend
babies virgin whore cougar are not words used to explain how much anyone rides [ a bike].
are you ok ?all i did was mention a category and you agreed to sign up to it.Secondly you infer from what I said I imply with what I type and I implied nothing i merely stated your answer.Literally no-one "trivialised rape" (or maybe Junkyard did (twice, by the look of it, inferring that I'm a rapist?))
essentially do you think some folk might be out off signing up to race as a rapist? I would go for yes some people would as I would with the terms they used.
I dont think its a very controversial view but this is STW so it will rumble on.
aracer - MemberIt's a strawman then, because absolutely nobody on this thread has suggested that the event wasn't a success.
Nah, it's not a strawman- it's relevant because Air Maiden put on great events and people who've got no involvement in them are finding fault and saying how they're doing it wrong, that they have the wrong values, that this event for 16 year olds isn't appropriate for 8 year olds...
Nah, it's not a strawman- it's relevant because Air Maiden put on great events and people who've got no involvement in them are finding fault and saying how they're doing it wrong, that they have the wrong values, that this event for 16 year olds isn't appropriate for 8 year olds...
No, we're saying they've made a mistake in the category naming. No more, no less. Come on, of all the people on here I expect you to have comprehension skills!
[quote> https://www.xkcd.com/386/
I hereby attempt to walk away and not return
Just spat water over my work computer, good pick sir, good pick.
No, we're saying they're made a mistake in the category naming. No more, no less. Come on, of all the people on here I expect you to have comprehension skills!
I guess the problem is, myself and Northwind were involved in the race, and spent a considerable time with the women and organisers in person, and the topic of inappropriateness never came up once.
Contrasting that to out of context anecdotal evidence on an internet forum.
Make of that what you will.
chiefgrooveguru - MemberNo, we're saying they've made a mistake in the category naming. No more, no less. Come on, of all the people on here I expect you to have comprehension skills!
I think you need to read the thread tbf, everything i mentioned is right there.
As one of the "core small group of female posters who actually ride bikes", I suppose I ought to comment.
It's self-evident that the categories were a mistake, since we're discussing the names and not the event itself. Unless you believe that "all publicity is good publicity".
But the names are hilariously funny . . . if you're a 14yo boy. For a grown-up woman, not so much.
To respond "It's just a joke", "You have no sense of humour" and "Get over it" is immature. It's also the classic response of a man challenged for harassing a woman.
By all accounts the event was excellent, so well done the organiser (and all the helpers). There was a nice piece in [url= https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2012/apr/12/the-clan-female-rider ]The Guardian[/url] a few years ago, which includes some background on the "Chief Air Maiden".
They should have gone with
Jailbait
Pert
Leaking
Saggy
I guess the problem is, myself and Northwind were involved in the race, and spent a considerable time with the women and organisers in person, and the topic of inappropriateness never came up once.
Yes, because an event when you're there is MUCH bigger than the category names. But when you look to book a place on an event, or look up the results afterwards all you have is a list of names, categories, times, and positions.
Seeing that on Roots And Rain is uncomfortable viewing to a father of a four year old girl who is super competitive and loves riding her bike.
I also refer back to my first comment, which is that I suspect this humour is more acceptable in Scotland than England - I feel like it sounds funnier when I say it in a Scottish accent but in English it just sounds abusive.
No-one has yet suggested what Vets and Super Vets should be called either...
😆
Perch, sometimes you're hillaryarse.
rickon - MemberI guess the problem is, myself and Northwind were involved in the race, and spent a considerable time with the women and organisers in person, and the topic of inappropriateness never came up once.
Self selection though, by definition we never met anyone on the day who was put off entering by the names.
I was at both Enduro Maiden events, and I don't recall anybody being offended by the category names, they seemed to be taken with the humor with which they were intended.
I get more annoyed at the diminuitive "girls" being applied to adult women at bike race events.
If everybody who has taken the time to post about this on social media because they care so much about women's treatment in society donated a pound to the Womens Refuge then maybe some good will come of all this suffering !
that would be me and the dictionary then and you giving an [credible] explanation of why the other categories[context] are also sexualised words.
Not my argument to back up, I was quoting one of the few women to contribute to the thread. As someone else said it could just be a Scottish humour thing. Dunno.
Seems to be a bit of a storm in a tea cup IMO. The terms "virgin" and "whore" are so used now the derogatory side of them is lost. "Virgin snow" (winter sports) grammer/attention whore (both used in this thread).
When did you last use/hear used, in a derogatory way, whore instead of slut???
The only one that suggest they are ALL sexual is cougar as its the only one without another meaning in society.
I guess the problem is, myself and Northwind were involved in the race, and spent a considerable time with the women and organisers in person, and the topic of inappropriateness never came up once.
Is that relevant? 😉
Is there a male equivalent of cougar ? Out of interest. I guess the idea of a 40ish bloke dating a 20ish women is so unworthy of remark that nobody has bothered. He certainly wouldn't be branded as predatory. Which leads to the bigger topic of why women's sexual behaviour draws negative terms, when men's are positive (spinster vs bachelor) but I suspect this is not the right forum for that discussion.
Dirty old man (sugar dad if you are kind) predates cougar etc by some margin - probably as accurate/inaccurate too
What's derogatorily about spinster - it's just the female equivalent of bachelor?
Is there a male equivalent of cougar? Out of interest. I guess the idea of a 40ish bloke dating a 20ish women is so unworthy of remark that nobody has bothered
lucky?
the equivalent term would be Cradle snatcher (although that can be used for ladies that purposefully go out and try and sleep with young men as well)
I always thought "dirty old man" was more about those chaps in raincoats breathing heavily watching the schoolies on the bus.
Spinster has lonely dried up cardigan wearing librarian connotations. Bachelor suggests happy go lucky freedom and enjoyment. These are just examples of course, and probably poorly chosen as they are more at home in the 1970s which I am surprised nobody has pointed out
poorly chosen??
Just shows that make versions of these comments predate "cougar" by some way. Ladies do not have a monopoly here! 😉
Nothing negative about cougars.
Yes a masterhels - MemberIs there a male equivalent of cougar ? Out of interest.
Yes a master
Think you're getting your wires crossed somewhere 😉
You now get younger women calling themsleves panthers who go after older men. I am down with that.
You now get younger women calling themsleves panthers who go after older men. I am down with that.
😯
🙂squirrelking - MemberYes a master
Think you're getting your wires crossed somewhere
Oooh, I'm tempted to enter the Southern Enduro Series, if I can be a "Fun Woman"!
Not going to get into the debate on categories but the Hope one is filling up fast. I'm not a big believer in men only or women only events but have entered this as an end of year weekend out with my two girls so will be split across three categories.
Entries OpenThursday 22nd December 2016
Entries CloseTuesday 10th October 2017 at 12:00
Entries so Far101 Participants
Entry FeesAll charges for this event will be made in Pounds Sterling
Event Fee £35.00
To enter you must first Log In or Register your Details with SiEntries.
Hopetech Women Enduro - Gisburn Forest
A grassroots enduro for women only, emphasis on fun. Hope Technology have heavily subsidised the event so we can pass those savings onto you. The event will run if we have 30 or 300 entries, and part of Hope's "Hopetech Women" 2017 event program. Checkout http://hopetechwomen.com/events for information on other rides, races and demo's.
A 10 mile lap with 3 stages will give plenty of time to chat to the other women on the day.
3 stages - suitable for novices but fun for the experienced racer too
Morning practice
Afternoon race lap
Categories
U21 - Under 21 on 31st December 2017
Senior - over 21 on 31st December 2017
Masters - over 30 on 31st December 2017
Vets - over 40 on 31st December 2017
Elite (open)