[Closed] fatty, rigid or bouncy front end

Bouncy.

(Tried rigid, but I like blatting down bumpy hills too much.)

rigid one less thing to go wrong just dial in your tubeless tyre pressures i.e. 9.6 f 9.7 in the rear!

Bouncy FTW!

I stayed rigid for a year then tried blutos and would never ever go back now. IMHO it makes the bike so much faster and more fun.

You can go faster with a Bluto, definitely, but for me the joy of a fat bike is riding differently and more simply, so I've gone back to rigid. If I want to blat around at high speed, I can take the full sus.

Taken my fatbike down some of my normal dh runs recently. It's pretty horrible when you try to go as you would normally on a bike with suspension. That undamped bounce makes things interesting for sure.

As mentioned above though, it's a different kind of bike and in a way there seems no point in trying to make it into another trail bike. I've told myself to enjoy the difference and ride accordingly.

That being said, I may succumb to a Bluto eventually.. 😉

Is this going to be your main bike? Go bouncy.
Is it going to be your other,winter,beach bike ? Go rigid.
I've stuck rigid as it's a totally different experience to my full sus bikes. There is a surprising amount of suspension in those tyres.

Lauf!

I was a big believer in fat rigid that was until I got my latest fat bike with a Lauf Carbonara
Bouncy wins hands down.

Bouncy.

You can always lock the fork out if you want to experience rigid.

Even with the Bluto (if you go tubeless) , it will still be lighter than most other fat bikes, and a good number of normal hard tails.

The Dude is a great bike. I doubt that you will be disappointed. I think that mine is my favourite bike that I have ever had.

Thanks for the feedback and ZK thats a good question. I used to have a lot of bikes but I needed to sell them off so I am starting to rebuild but this time around I am going to be more thoughtful. The only bike I kept was my Yelli Screamy with Fox forks,right now it gets used for everything. Looking forward the fatty will take over the adventure and bike packing duty, the Yelli will become more general purpose and if my finances allow it and if I feel the need I might get a full susser but first things first. Our current bike packing rides are very mixed terrain (Clwyds/Lakes) and I have to stay back when the others do the beaches but that will change once the fatty arrives. One final thought I still get a kick from keeping off the brakes and seeing what I can get away with, even when fully load for bike packing - the kid in me refuses to go away.

Pb2. If you are only in the market for one new bike, and debating between fat and full sus, how about getting a set of 650B+ wheels for your Yelli to scratch the fat itch, then also get a full sus?

Edit:autocorrect spelling

Definitely bouncy. Tried both and its alot more fun when your arms aren't falling off at the end of a descent!

I've gone the whole hog now and gone full sus fat.

It's a matter of taste, not better or worse. I'd go with the carbons, mostly because it's easy to add blutos later but I don't know if you can get the rigids to match the frame later.

I'm loving it rigid tbh and happy bouncing it down dh trails, it's a bit like chucking a spacehopper down an alley but I do enjoy it. I'm planning to get blutos to try at one point and if I like that too I'll probably alternate.

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Bouncy.

Rigid's ok but even with an added 2.5" of undamped squish you get with fat tyres it's not as forgiving as a some proper suspension.

Good morning PK,good question,I thought about that approach,so much so that I read every comment on the 650B+ thread,almost 20 pages worth ! My conclusion was a disappointing, its not practical. My Yelli was one the first batch in to the UK in late 2011 and the rear tyre clearance is not enough to make the difference to the 29" 2.3" tyres I currently use.

So a lightish fatty (oxymoron alert)tickles my fancy right now.

Pb2, fair enough. I've seen a couple of b+ Yellis locally and didn't realise that they were not all created equal.

Until recently I'd have argued for rigid but I've recently fitted Rebas to my B+ and that mix seems to work really well so I could be converted to fat forks. Northwind makes a good point about availability of matching forks though - if Canyon don't sell the rigids separately then I'd buy a rigid Dude and aftermarket Blutos.

I asked canyon if they would sell me a rigid fork when I bought A Blutoed Dude, they would not. (yes, I know I could have bought a rigid bike and a Bluto separately but I preferred the colour).

Having ridden the Bluto for over 6months now, I can't imagine that I would ever bother removing it to fit a rigid. For my type of riding the fork is great.

I do have a different fully rigid bike though for when I want my back to basics bone shaking fix.

Have you tried either? I had a demo on a rigid fatbike (Surly ICT) recently. I expected to really miss the suspension, being a full-suss fan. In fact I really missed the dropper, but didn't miss the suspension at all. I quite like it really in a "this is different" sort of way.

It probably comes down to what you want a fatbike for really. If it is just supposed to be something different (i.e. for different conditions, different terrain or just a different experience) then rigid makes more sense (less to go wrong in crappy conditions and more different). But if it will be your only bike and has to double as a trail bike then suspension forks make sense. It still wont be a great trail bike, but it will be better and not much worse at the other stuff.

I'd be interested to know why you opted for the Dude too. I've been looking at that recently, but am not sure if it can really run proper 4.8 tyres (e.g. Bud/Lou), which I'd want for the winter.

I am a tad obsessed with weight and cost. The Dude being a relatively light fat bike and being decent value for money has got my interest.

The thing that surprises me is how few UK rider reviews are available (or maybe I am not looking in the right places?)

Does any know if Canyon use the same axle for the rigid and Bluto models. The wheel set appears to be the same DT Swiss BR2250. If did start rigid but then wanted to buy aftermarket Blutos say next year I wouldn't want the hassle and expense of getting a new wheel for the Bluto. Thanks Paul

There is a Dude Facebook page, it appears to be mostly inhabited by continental types but there look to be a few UK people. There are also a few photos showing that some have swapped out their rigid for a Bluto, so may be worth joining to ask if they had any axle issues.

As for reviews, I couldn't find many so took a chance and was not disappointed. Also managed to wangle a Euro sale so worked out very good value.
I have pals with similar specced Cube and Specialized fat models and to me it seems to ride very similarly to those, just marginally lighter.
Where in the country are you?

I'm sure I read somewhere that the rigid fork used the (Bluto compatible) 150mm axle.

I was also surprised by the lack of UK reviews (or any reviews in English really). I'd be interested to hear if anybody has fitted 4.8" tyres (and which ones) and whether they had to mess around with changing cranks to get it to work.

You're worrying about weigh with a fat bike? Ha! Ha! Seriously?

I run a Bluto on my Ice Cream Truck. It definitely takes the edge off and encourages you to ride faster down stuff. I still like the rigid forks though.

I also have a Cannondale Fat Caad 1 on test and it is a bit of a beast. It lacks the go anywhere, ride anything gnarr of the Truck but it is a fair bit faster and considerably lighter. The Lefty fork is nicer to ride than the Bluto as it feels plusher and has a nice and direct feel in tight singletrack. If you want a suspension fat bike, go for the Cannondale. Worth changing the tyres though as theJumbo Jims are somewhat lacking in grip compared to Surly tyres.

Hope this helps?

Hi Paul,

the rigid Dude has the same axle dimension as the Bluto.
As many have said it´s a question of personal preferences. Beside the two options I´d like to mention a third one. You could buy the rigid Dude to use it as a zero maintenance bike for winter or lazy days and get a second custom wheelset in B+ with a better B+ suspension fork.
Just a thought...

Cheers from Germany
Flo

Cheers Sanny and others and yes I am serious about the weight. Extra weight is a pain,it slows you down, it tires you out and that holds true whether you are on 16lbs fancy road bike or fat mountain bike. Why have extra weight when you don't have to ❓

I know this sounds odd but I couldn't buy a bike with a lefty, my eyes shout to my brain,aghh its fugly, don't go near it, run for the hills 😀

PK I live in the industrial waste lands of the north west of England but don't have a face book account (kids do though)

Thanks Flo, that is very helpful

Extra weight is a pain,it slows you down, it tires you out and that holds true whether you are on 16lbs fancy road bike or fat mountain bike. Why have extra weight when you don't have to

True and rotating weight counts double. So, why have big fat heavy wheels when you don't have to (non-fat bikes being available)?

Not trying to be argumentative, just interested.

roverpig - Member

True and rotating weight counts double. So, why have big fat heavy wheels when you don't have to (non-fat bikes being available)?

The fat tyres make me laugh, but I'll still take any weight reduction I can, as long as it doesn't harm the functionality. I was the same with my dh bikes- they were never going to be [i]light[/i] but the lighter they were, the more i liked riding them

Also, it's easier to get in the car.

@roverpig
The Dude has two axle positions to run either 4" + 160mm or 4,8" + 180mm disc.
A Bud, Lou or JJ will work in the long axle position, a Dunderbeist even in the short one but the crank with those bigger tyres would need to be a 1x.

Fair point but all the feedback suggests a decent fatty with low pressure tyres can be winched up climbs that leave really light weight non fattys struggling for traction. Then there's beach rides and swampy ground thats currently a no go for my Yelli hard tail and thats a lightish build with American Classic wheel set and light tyres and that still comes in at 25.5lbs and the rigid Dude is circa 27.5lbs

Cheers Sanny and others and yes I am serious about the weight. Extra weight is a pain,it slows you down, it tires you out and that holds true whether you are on 16lbs fancy road bike or fat mountain bike. Why have extra weight when you don't have to

I can only assume it would be better with Blutos but I bought the bike because it was simple. Being competent came as a surprise. I don't want to sacrifice simple for better as it's good enough already.

The Dude has two axle positions to run either 4" + 160mm or 4,8" + 180mm disc.
A Bud, Lou or JJ will work in the long axle position, a Dunderbeist even in the short one but the crank with those bigger tyres would need to be a 1x.

Thanks. So am I right in thinking that, out of the box, the CF 8.0 wouldn't work with a Bud/Lou combination, but the CF 9.0 Unlimited would (with a larger disk and the wheel moved back)?

Thanks. So am I right in thinking that, out of the box, the CF 8.0 wouldn't work with a Bud/Lou combination, but the CF 9.0 Unlimited would (with a larger disk and the wheel moved back)?

You don´t need a larger disk - I was a bit unclear there - but a disk larger than 170mm in the short pos. will hit the stays.

Bluto's lockout so I have the option 8)

I removed the 4" JJ tyres from my 9.0ex and replaced with 4.8, just required the axle moving back. No chain rub issues on 1x11.
I also removed the Bluto and sold before using it to pay for half a Lauf 🙂 It curremtly has the LAuf from my existing bike on it. I prefer it to Bluto, the short travel is just enough. I also fitted my preferred Jones carbon loops and 50mm spacers. I like the front end relatively short and high.

The JJ's are hopeless in any sort of moisture. If we get a wet April I'll be putting a Bud on the front at least.

The Lefty is an awesome piece of kit. I am definitely a convert to it. I also happen to think that it looks cool as f#ck! 😀

@roverpig@flows

[i]Thanks. So am I right in thinking that, out of the box, the CF 8.0 wouldn't work with a Bud/Lou combination, but the CF 9.0 Unlimited would (with a larger disk and the wheel moved back)?[/i]

Please excuse my ignorance but is this a chain line issue between the 1x11 and 2x10 or something else ?

I have an ICT with both rigid and Blutos (an easy change over) but have kept the blutos on for most of the last year. They are almost essential (for my old arms) for all day rocky routes (Torridon, Spain etc.) and I can lock them out for all my other stuff (beach, forest, moorland and hills).

I would try to get the set up with as much rubber width as possible as its easy to go slimmer.

AND couple of my mates have the Dude and its seriously light and a lovely bike. Although I do ride a bike made out of scaffold poles 🙂

Thanks Gav,my old arms are seriously old so I welcome anything that helps as long as it does not add too much weight (Blutos add 1kg so its tough call for me)

Are your mates Dudes rigid or Bluto'ed ?

Please excuse my ignorance but is this a chain line issue between the 1x11 and 2x10 or something else ?

One has bluto and one has the Lauf, so both have some bounce 🙂

The fat tyres make me laugh, but I'll still take any weight reduction I can, as long as it doesn't harm the functionality. I was the same with my dh bikes- they were never going to be light but the lighter they were, the more i liked riding them

I was with you, right up until I tested that Ice Cream Truck. Pick it up and there is no doubt it is heavy, but what a laugh to ride. Maybe a lighter fat bike is even more fun, I don't know, but I can't deny that heavy can be fun too.

Not saying you can't have fun on a heavy bike tbh! Just, I'd rather it be lighter than heavier. I think a big part of it's psychological tbh, but I'm fine with that- frinstance I'm pretty sure lighter wheels don't really make me accelerate much harder but when I kick the pedals, it just feels like increased reward... So I put more in, too, and [i]that's [/i]where the real speed comes from

I've got a carbon beargrease and I kept it rigid for ages and loved the lightness of the bike . I think it was around 27lbs but I succumbed to blutos and I don't remember how light it was now 😯

Go rigid and get the whole FB experience - its a hoot!!

If you really notice that your getting a battering then let the tire down more

Tried blutos and thought they were pretty dreadful.....but i would be tempted if Sram released some Pike FB specific forks

Until then....i'm sticking rigid

Besides the weight saving (~900g in my case), do carbon forks feel like they improve the ride on a fatbike, when tyres are likely to be at 10PSI or lower most of the time?

Besides the weight saving (~900g in my case), do carbon forks feel like they improve the ride on a fatbike, when tyres are likely to be at 10PSI or lower most of the time?

It's probably proprioception as much as anything, you can feel that the forks are stiffer, because fork flex/damping feels different to tyre squish.

In the same vain I can feel the difference between the carbon and alu bars despite the weight of the bike and 4" tyres.

900g would be a significant drop though, you'll notice that!

It's probably proprioception as much as anything, you can feel that the forks are stiffer, because fork flex/damping feels different to tyre squish.

In the same vain I can feel the difference between the carbon and alu bars despite the weight of the bike and 4" tyres.

900g would be a significant drop though, you'll notice that!

Only thing that is holding me back is the cost, £150 for the fork and then £40 for an RDS front wheel, half the cash I paid for the whole bike!

Big thanks to everyone who chipped in with advice, the forum has once again proved its worth and an extra thank you to Pete and Flo for their sage advice.I have decided to go with the rigid 8.0 and if I feel the need to put bouncy forks on it well I can do that as and when.
My only remaining question is can the standard DT BR2250 wheelset and 4" JJ tyres be made tubeless as I hate inner tubes (even my road bike is tubeless)Thnx Paul B

I think a Bluto was pretty much top priority when I bought a Big Jon but after riding it around for a while I'm glad I didn't

Big Jon isn't like a late 90s rigid Carrera. The fat tyres work really well up to a point - the cut-off is pretty brutal mind - but with a bit of finesse it flies you just have to stop relying on the suspension and sort it out between yourself and the tyres. Pressures make a huge difference

The other massive bonus for me is the razor-sharp steering which is way better than any suspension fork I've used

Zero maintenance as well

Hi Paul,

this is great news! Think, you´ll have fun with it. And like you said, you always can go one step further if you feel the need for a bouncy front.
The wheelset as a whole is named after its weight (~ 2250g) and the rim itself is named BR710 so you may find more info using this number. Its real weight comes closer to 680g, though, and yes, it´s tubeless ready.

I don´t know about the light weight options of closing the rim holes and sealing them up properly in GB but in Germany we often use one layer of 50mm Gaffa upside down, [url= http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/attachments/img_4523-jpg.403375/ ]5 layers of cling film[/url] and finally cut down the ends to the inflated tyres like known from ghetto tubeless.

Nobody,why do you need a new front wheel? I thought the Fatty fork had same drop outs as the Wazoo (135mm x 10)?

Fatty tubeless conversion is easy enough and makes life much easier

Tubeless ghetto set up is my favorite solution. 2 x 20" inner tubes cut around the circumference to make a new rim strip

Put some gorilla tape on the rim to protect the new tube from the spokes

Use the valve from the new 'rim tape', chuck loads of sealant in and pump it up

I strapped my tyres closer to the rim and used a compressor

Only one puncture in 3,000 miles and never burped it yet. Saved about 1/2 lb in each wheel and eliminated pinch flats

Usual tubeless faff but well worth it in the long run 🙂

Nobody,why do you need a new front wheel? I thought the Fatty fork had same drop outs as the Wazoo (135mm x 10)?

Because the Wazoo front wheel has the modern standard of a Front Disc Spaced hub, but the Carbon Fatty Fork was designed under the old standard Rear Disc Spaced hub. 😉

This is why kayak23 had the rotor rubbing against the left fork blade, kayak23 got round this by lathing 4.8mm off the brake mount, which I believe is the difference between FDS and RDS front wheel hubs.

The brake mount "fudging" might work out absolutely fine for those that have done it, but I have no access to or experience of using lathes. So if I ever get round to buying the Carbon Fatty Fork (the only QR, non-tapered fat carbon fork I've come across), I will buy an RDS hubbed front wheel.

I thought about buying the Fatty Front Wheel in the PX sale that ends tonight for ~£40 including the discount, but as I'm not going to pull the trigger on a Carbon Fatty Fork for £150 tonight, I decided against buying it just in case the fork purchase never ends up happening.

flows - Member

Its real weight comes closer to 680g, though, and yes, it´s tubeless ready.

It's not btw- I'm sure I've seen some press material saying it is but DT say not.

Northwind - Member
It's not btw- I'm sure I've seen some press material saying it is but DT say not.

You´re right, DT doesn´t name it that way. Though, the welded rim joint plus the recessed tyre bead every other brand is naming "tubeless ready" to me makes this rim "tubeless ready" as well. 😉
I bet, DT as a very big and conservative brand didn´t stick such a fancy label on it, because they found it odd inasmuch as the rim also has huge holes in the middle.

boltonjon - Member
Fatty tubeless conversion is easy enough and makes life much easier

Of the dude models I'd go for the more expensive rigid.

It's the only one that has 1X so is set up for 5" and comes with some 5" (summer) tyres.

Rigid 5" is really good. Yes blutos or Lauf will be smoother but I ride lakes and peaks fully rigid and love it.

Also it was the simplicity that attracted me.

If you worry about the weight of a mainstream (not a cheap lump) Fat Bike then maybe Fat Biking isn't for you.

I've been riding mine fully ridged for the last 6 months and loving it. But everyone I know with Bluto's says I should get some - even though I keep up with them (or go faster) on the downs. I've tried some out on friends bikes for short stints, and TBH I'm not sure that the added weight and servicing would out weigh any additional smiles for me.
I would be tempted by some Lauf forks though, for the lack of maintenance and minimal weight gain if nothing else.

My downhill strava times on my rigid OO aren't far off those posted on my Spearfish.
I really don't miss suspension on the front.

Because the Wazoo front wheel has the modern standard of a Front Disc Spaced hub, but the Carbon Fatty Fork was designed under the old standard Rear Disc Spaced hub

cool thanks for the explanation. Just saved me 150 quid as I was toying with the carbon fork (and had ignorantly assumed it was the same standard).

But I really wouldn´t recommend the ghetto tubeless method. While the Gorilla tape used in both versions weighs the same (40g) the split tube comes in at 150-180g and the 5 layers cling film + valve are ~20g. Ime this makes a pretty solid difference

The weight loss with ghetto is a bit of smoke and mirrors as you're using a tube in order to do it plus all the other gubbins. My FR tubes weigh 180grms a piece so I've lost the same weight for a lot less faff. I appreciate there are lots of other much vaunted benefits to tubeless, but to me they are theoretical (I get maybe 1 off-road puncture a year, I weigh 65kg so can run low pressures) so I am still in the luddite "meh" camp and all my bikes (fat, FS, CX, road) run tubes.

And I'd do what the OP ended up doing - buying the rigid forked Dude with the option of getting bluto in the future.

How is the puncture count with the 180g tubes?

@crashtestmonkey: If you had pre-emptively bought that Fatty Front wheel last night in the sale, waiting to see if the Carbon fatty Fork reduces in price at a later date, you could have used an adapter such as http://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/frames-forks-c6/frame-fork-spares-c152/problem-solvers-fat-fork-disc-adaptor-p11825/s33072 to fit the Fatty wheel in the Wazoo's fork for now.

I saved a little weight going split-tube, just because my tube was lighter than anything I'd use in a fatbike normally. But the real point was puncture prevention, inflating fat tyres with a packable pump is a bollocks.

But I've switched over to the plastic wrap method now and so far so good, that does produce much more weight saving.

JohnClimber

"If you worry about the weight of a mainstream (not a cheap lump) Fat Bike then maybe Fat Biking isn't for you"

John if I did not know you better I could be fooled into thinking you were serious but as you have championed Lauf forks since the first day and one of major selling features of the Lauf fork is its weight saving I am happy to assume you are just trying to be ironic in a clumsy sort of way 😀

Zippy - zero. Same as the STW member who recommended them and has been using them for 3 years (apologies to that user for forgetting name, possibly roverpig?).

And as I replied previously to NW about tubeless, I'm not 'anti' just meh - cost benefit analysis doesn't work for me. If I punctured more often, and been stranded in p1ssing rain with a mini pump it'd be a different equation.

flows

The wheelset as a whole is named after its weight (~ 2250g) and the rim itself is named BR710 so you may find more info using this number. Its real weight comes closer to 680g, though, and yes, it´s tubeless ready.

I don´t know about the light weight options of closing the rim holes and sealing them up properly in GB but in Germany we often use one layer of 50mm Gaffa upside down, 5 layers of cling film and finally cut down the ends to the inflated tyres like known from ghetto tubeless.

Flo that is a brilliant solution, top marks to whom ever came up with that idea 😀

Flo or Northwind,I forgot to ask how much Stans will I need to seal a pair of 4" tyres ?

Flo or Northwind,I forgot to ask how much Stans will I need to seal a pair of 4" tyres ?