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Option A, something like a Pile Ultimate with a Smashpot and a custom Avalanche damper.
Option B, Intend BC Hero.
Imagine they are to go 9n a 140mm full suspension 29er.
What's most important, the chassis or the spring and damper? I hear people say the fore aft on the Intend is second to none and the torsional stiffness is compliant.
However, no one can doubt the quality of a Smashpot and an avalanche damper.
If you could go 150mm travel I would go Ohlins RXF36 M2 with a Smashpot conversion
Just get a Lyric Ultimate, and while it's 150mm minimum the axle-to-crown is only 5mm longer than a 140mm Pike.
I did this and it transformed my Cotic.
A custom tuned fork is always gonna be better for you than a standard Intend. Rulezman Suspension can do you a custom Intend, but it’ll be about £3k.
Where are you? If you’re up Leeds way, let me know and you can have a play on a (older chassis, but new damper) 150mm Edge.
Just get a Lyric Ultimate, and while it’s 150mm minimum the axle-to-crown is only 5mm longer than a 140mm Pike.
Latest version of the Lyrik is available in 140mm, or you can just change the airsahft in the previous version to 140mm (i did this for my Optic).
I get the impression you like obscure and custom-tuned stuff OP, which is totally fine.
But for a 140-150mm fork I'd strongly recommend considering the CC Helm coil. I have a 150mm on my Starling and it's a breath of fresh air with plenty of stiffness, support and most-importantly that lovely coil grip and comfort.
What’s most important, the chassis or the spring and damper?
Good question and I'm hardly an expert, but I'd say probably:
1. Spring
2. Damper
3. Chassis
And that's on the basis of which you notice most when it's wrong. Though I admit the spring and damping issues may be difficult to untangle when riding.
@toomhoward I'm not a million miles away and might take you up on that offer if this ever gets any closer to reality. It's watching the Rulezman stuff on YouTube that made me ponder this question. I'd be interested in your thoughts on the increased fore/aft stiffness and reduced torsional stiffness.
@chakaping you might be right. I don't follow obscure for the sake of it, but I do like to try and keep an open mind about this stuff. As mentioned above, Dave Rulezman makes some interesting points. The trouble with his videos are that there's no counter point, hence why I'm trying to get a discussion going here.
I'm more interested in the discussion than speccing and actually fork right now.
@chakaping you might be right. I don’t follow obscure for the sake of it, but I do like to try and keep an open mind about this stuff. As mentioned above, Dave Rulezman makes some interesting points. The trouble with his videos are that there’s no counter point, hence why I’m trying to get a discussion going here.
I’m more interested in the discussion than speccing and actually fork right now.
Fair enough.
It's always difficult to separate what works in practice from what these suspension gurus tell us is best theoretically. Like Chris Porter and dual crown forks.
I haven't watched Rulezman's videos but I'll check them out.
On a related note, is it just me that gets a bit irritated seeing Paul Aston constantly saying Rulezman does the best suspension on the planet, but never explaining why it's so good or what it does that stock suspension doesn't?
dual crown fork Vs single crown fork
This was an interesting read as you've mentioned Chris Porter and dual crown forks.
What’s most important, the chassis or the spring and damper?
That's a big "it depends", depends on the bike (really slack head angles do odd things with bushing bind), total system weight, how hard you ride, etc etc.
If I had a big pot of cash for a fantasy fork, I'd be looking at a custom tuned EXT from Chris Porter (based on my friend's experiences with his stuff) or custom manitou from Rulezman (based on Paul Aston's comments.)
For me it would be a custom tuned EXT too.
Everyone I know that uses the fork & shock rave about them.
I've yet to try them, but would buy on reviews alone. They are great riders and don't often rave about kit.
On a related note, is it just me that gets a bit irritated seeing Paul Aston constantly saying Rulezman does the best suspension on the planet, but never explaining why it’s so good or what it does that stock suspension doesn’t?
I can’t take anything that he says seriously. I actually think his original concept for reviews was pretty good, and the results, not exactly unexpected with the subsequent total failure from brands to even warranty bikes properly, but he’s strayed so far from that & gone down some weird rabbit holes, with an obsession of creating his idea of great. He’s like Porter, on steroids.
For me it would be a custom tuned EXT too.
Everyone I know that uses the fork & shock rave about them
I’ll counter that & say from experience, (shock & fork), they arn’t any better than a properly tuned decent alternative. The fork was a real pig to set up as well (especially if you wanted to run an everyday setting & a faster ‘race day’ option).
For reference, I still have a shock on my big bike.
In terms of the original question, I would probably run a ‘23 Pike Ultimate for that setup. I wouldn’t be bothering with a coil for a relatively short amount of travel, I’d want an air spring for ramp up & the Charger3 damper feels great to me - general caveat is I have heard that it might be a bit much compression for some people however, but thats where the tuning side comes into it.
I’ve just installed a Smashpot Coil plus Charger 3 in my ZEB
The bushing were also lapped in / blueprinted……
Just gotta decide if I stay on the 450# or drop to 400# plus more compression….
It makes my Formula Selva R feel very poorly in comparison
Concerning shocks, my EXT STORIA has been surpassed also by the new RS Super Deluxe Ultimate….
Pile Ultimate
When talking about Pile Ultimates I'd suggest chassis and damper are more important...
Also, this raised a chuckle!
Maybe take a look at the JockShox Hemorrhoid Pro as an alternative?
I can’t take anything that he says seriously. I actually think his original concept for reviews was pretty good, and the results, not exactly unexpected with the subsequent total failure from brands to even warranty bikes properly, but he’s strayed so far from that & gone down some weird rabbit holes, with an obsession of creating his idea of great. He’s like Porter, on steroids.
If anyone desperately needed an editor / producer to keep him on track it's him, to keep him editorially focused (and on budget).
He just doesn't seem interested in reviewing bikes or products, all his content now seems to be bigging up his custom bike, saying how he does the "only independent reviews" (obvious BS) and endless raffles.
As an editor myself, I find it frustrating because with a bit more discipline he could be doing so much better.
something like a Pile Ultimate
oooh, that must sting.
with a Smashpot
gnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng
He just doesn’t seem interested in reviewing bikes or products, all his content now seems to be bigging up his custom bike, saying how he does the “only independent reviews” (obvious BS) and endless raffles.
I want to like Paul's work (and some of his earlier independent stuff and the concept was interesting), however he's slowly disappearing up his own bottom. I can cope with the raffles (gotta fund it somehow), I can cope with him building his own bike (each to their own), what irritates me is that in his mind all suspension is rubbish unless it's uber expensive Rulezman custom tuned Manitou/CC Kitsuma/Intend and we should all be riding some monstrosity of geometry extremes as that's all that is good (in his mind), this tends to lead his opinions, rather than dealing with each bike objectively as it comes (see recent posts about how the YT Capra geometry is not as good as his own). He also needs to sack his graphic designer, it's one level up from The Apprentice!
What gets me is that the ‘Most Independent Reviewer’ is literally selling the kit he is reviewing.
If replacing spring and damper wouldn't you just need to buy the cheapest variant of said fork? Ultimate versions equipped with the top stuff, that in this case would just get removed anyway.
Like wouldn't a revelation just become the fork you want without having to buy a pike?
The thought with the higher end fork is two fold. One, the ultimate gets better bushings 8n 2023 and secondly, the charger 3 would help offset the cost while a moco out if a revelation is just scrap.
It is a fantasy Fork afterall.
For anyone that's EXT ERA curious I'll have one for sale in the next few days.