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What an incredible challenge, I cannot conceive of how hard it will be.
[b]Re: PR[/b], necessary evil I'm afraid, human beings (in general) respond really well to a certain socially conscious approach, that isn't it.
I work in the public sector where we spend £millions to improve people's lives. We still have to have a massive PR effort to bring them round. No point fighting it, it's just the way it is. The comments (from the OP) regarding people on here being negative are a classic example of how this backfires if you get it wrong and then a negative cycle perpetuates.
Someone must be work in that sphere and be in the cycling world who could in a few evenings totally transform that website and the text? It wouldn't be that hard, just a few tweeks here and there.
Good luck, I'll follow but I doubt he'll want to stay in a house with crying children...
James
This guy is going to need some serious help and attention. He sounds like he means it.
Pit-stop style
I'm glad that he didn't sugar coat it.
People who have themselves been involved in endurance events will be be the best hosts.
He won't want a chat, or to become your friend. But it would be a good thing to help him out for that short period in time.
Good luck to him
Good luck to him.
Theres very few people who can ride 200 miles a day let alone every day for a year.
I don't think theres anything wrong with his wording. Hes being very specific about what he needs and that seems to be weeding out all the flaky moaners 😉
Audaxers are usually hard bastards, so there will be plenty of support in the community. If hes up in Halifax there will be a room waiting (although we do have a few hills)
The main flaw in his plan is that it could be scuppered by molgrips' mechanic turning out to be a keen cyclist, offering a bed for the night and a quick gearing tweak. 🙂
It's an amazing challenge that I couldn't possibly do, and I wish him all the best luck for it.
[i]It seems a bit sad to me that the thread's focus has been on the hosts page. [/i]
The host requirement thing is badly written, he's asking for random people to help him, then ask for help, don't issue a bunch of orders. fWIW I wouldn't touch his bike if it needs spannering, I'd lend him tools, but I wouldn't want to be responsible for it.
And that's because you don't have the mindset required for this.
Maybe, maybe not. Maybe I do but I'm a psycopath and would write it nicely to manipulate people into helping me.
I just think anyone finding his little corner of the internet would have to be interested in endurance cycling so would probably already have an idea what they were in for and if it were me doing/writing it I'd be doing/writing it trying my best not to put people out? He's not being unreasnoble, but the tone is all wrong, as Weeksy said he makes it sound like he's doing you a favour gracing you with his presence, he's not the queen!
thisisnotaspoon - Member
...as Weeksy said he makes it sound like he's doing you a favour gracing you with his presence, he's not the queen!
Aye, but if he succeeds, you have been in the presence of someone more worthy... 🙂
Oooh, and he's not wearing a helmet 🙂
(perhaps that's a cunning ploy to get some sponsorship)
DavidB, Ask yourself why most of the focus has been on the hosting page? I doubt we've all read every word on every page but its one of the first I looked at thinking 'Maybe I could help someone out on an amazing record attempt'. Others probably thought that too. Don't underestimate the importance of getting that bit right.
In the nature of offering constructive advice, he could also do with a biog page so people know a bit more about his character and history. It looks from the (tiny) pictures that he's done some bonkers stuff on inappropriate bikes for one thing and we all like that. If he's after help and donations, it needs some personality.
^^this
A bit more 'about me' stuff would likely work wonders with generating a bit of positive attitude!
Unless he's exactly as he comes across in the host page, in which case 'about someone else' would probably be more effective!
I'd second this...
I though "I'd be up for helping", but then reading all that guff actually feel i'd not be able to offer him exactly what he wants, so though "nah, won't bother"...
Which is sad, 'cos I want him to do well...
DrP
DavidB, Ask yourself why most of the focus has been on the hosting page?
I have, I don't disagree completely but also the debate on here came from it being highlighted by MTG. Other avenues have not batted an eyelid, Steve has raised a lot of support already and many have offered to be hosts. The reason it is discussed so heavily on here is because the thread dived straight into that page after it being pointed out. It would be a different thread if it hadn't. It is also 100% my fault for releasing his site too early, he copied it to me in an email and I had thought it was ready to go. So, point the finger at me not Steve.
I have offered to reword it, any offers to help me with constructive feedback if Steve accepts?
Bit patronising that. I dived into the hosting page first that's all. So did others.
I've given you some positive comments which I hope help. I appreciate you are helping him out and genuinely wish him well.
Dont worry about releasing it - consider it a focus group exercise!
Wasn't aimed at you, the thread in general. Message has been well and truly received. Would be nice if we could also debate some of the cycling aspects of his ride as well.
I am surprised nobody has raised "verification" for instance
I'd just take the car or train.
Where's he going anyway?
I bet he doesn't even have road tax for the bike....
DrP
I though "I'd be up for helping", but then reading all that guff actually feel i'd not be able to offer him exactly what he wants, so though "nah, won't bother"...
^^Isn't this the point though.
He's clearly stated what would be involved in being host. Hes not coming for a holiday. He's ridden 200 miles today needs to sleep for a while before riding 200 miles tomorrow to attempt to break an extremely difficult record (and repeat that for another 360+ days).
What is needed is people who are committed to being part of this record attempt, not people who think 'this is a good idea' then change their mind when they actually now whats involved.
I am surprised nobody has raised "verification" for instance
Why are you surprised? It explicitly states that the GPX must be uploaded to Strava within 24 hours. Do that for 365 days, then add up the total. Seems very straightforward indeed... 😕
I have offered to reword it, any offers to help me with constructive feedback if Steve accepts?
Yep.
It's a shame the US attempt is in some doubt. Perhaps there would be more patriotic enthusiasm if folk thought it was actually a bit of a contest.
[quote=DavidB ]
I am surprised nobody has raised "verification" for instance
This is an audax thing though, isn't it? If the guy is making a well-documented attempt at the record then I'm sure there will be sufficient scrutiny to ensure he's not cheating. If then heard he'd done it, I personally would be in little doubt.
FWIW, thousands of folk claim to have climbed all of the Munros. If they want, they can register with the SMC and get a certificate. However, there is no verification process. It is just assumed that folk are inherently honest.
I actually spotted this on my Twitter feed last night after this thread came out. Road.cc had an article about it. There was more background information in that one link than on the whole website!
David, the way you used a catchy title to draw people into this thread could have been the basis for the website homepage. Then you could focus on how tough it's really going to be, then talk about the old record, then do an in-depth profile of Steve, preferably with some pics of him smiling and doing stuff other than riding his bike and then get into the nitty gritty. Finally, include some links to other long-distance cycling websites so people can immerse themselves in the whole community. There should also be a Twitter and Facebook page set up with relevant links.
The whole thing reads like an instruction manual.
I'll happily offer constructive criticism or help re-word some of it if you want me to.
Link to Road.cc article:
On the verification thing. I've paid for a SPOT Tracker so he can ride and be observed randomly. The problem with GPS is that you cannot nip out and check it is actually attached to the rider. If he does it we want it to be beyond doubt in the minds of other cyclists.
scotroutes, it's a bit wider than Audax, there is also history as Ken Webb claimed 80,000 miles in 1971-72 but subsequently failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he had ridden them. Also, the UCMA are acting as the verifying body so it adds more weight with them. Finally it helps the hosts track him to their house (oh no! I've said the "h" word).
Thanks crosshair, just to be clear I've been researching the year record for years that is why I'm keen to see Steve's attempt go. I'm helping him where I can but he has others doing websites etc.. I'm not his campaign manager, think he could do with one though. Still waiting for him to accept/decline my offer, I suspect he is out riding 😉
[quote=DavidB ]
scotroutes, it's a bit wider than Audax, there is also history as Ken Webb claimed 80,000 miles in 1971-72 but subsequently failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he had ridden them. Also, the UCMA are acting as the verifying body so it adds more weight with them. And you are confirming my point. If he wants to break this record then that's wonderful. What you are now suggesting is that it is only valid if certain outside bodies confirm it for him. If he comes on here at the end of 2015 and says he's done it, that would be fine for me.
What you are now suggesting is that it is only valid if certain outside bodies confirm it for him.
No, I'm with you. Sadly in the wider spectrum people want proof and the UCMA are the only body willing to verify it. I have a copy of Guinness's modern requirements, they are hilarious. They require a timekeeper be present and no hills (as downhill gives an advantage!!) so basically a velodrome for 365 days.
In 1911 when it first started cyclometers were not accepted as proof as they were deemed unreliable, instead you had to use town to town distances and the signature of an upstanding member of the public.
no hills (as downhill gives an advantage!!) so basically a velodrome for 365 days.
start and finish the year at the same altitude?
Was thinking about this last night and the stat that really stuck in my head was that his average speed, For. The. Year, is about the same as I pootle round a trail centre for a bit of a workout for a couple of hours.
ill say that again
That's for the whole year, not just moving speed (which is silly high). Including when he is asleep/demanding his food be made/washing be done. At any given point in the year, he'll be doing 11.5-12mph. Assuming he makes it, and people who embark on these kinds of things usually do. 😯
'Chapeau' doesn't really cover it!
A miserable bastard writes...
I'm sorry to be the one who kicked off the negativity on this thread, but as others have said, it's natural for a fellow cyclist looking at his web site to think "Ooh, he's looking for volunteers, I wonder if I could help" only to read the requirements and think "Maybe not".
Out of interest, how is the host recruitment going?
I'm guessing that if he's well known amongst audaxers, he's more likely to find helpers there, just as if Matt Page or Aiden Harding, for example, were attempting some crazy 12 month MTB challenge, they would probably be more likely to get help from other mountain bikers who at least knew them by name, even if they had never met.
My other point about it not being very sporting to attempt to beat Tommy Godwin's record still stands. Sort of.
I think the way the UCI treated Graeme Obree over the hour record was disgraceful, yet, in a way, I will concede that they had a point. It's meant to be a test of cyclists, not bike designers.
If the year record was a common challenge and the record had increased incrementally over the years, then I guess using the best bike available at the time would be part of it.
Having a go at a 75 year old record and taking advantage of 75 years of improvements in bikes, road surfaces and communication technology just seems like picking an easy target to me, although obviously, if it really was easy it would have been done by now.
But then, having some sort of UCI style rule of only being allowed to use a bike and roads that were available in 1939 and arranging accommodation in advance by telegram would make a mockery of it.
MTG, maybe for him it's simply something to aim at. I'm sure he has deep respect for Tommy Godwin and his record. Surpassing the mark he set isn't bettering him as such.
Having a go at a 75 year old record and taking advantage of 75 years of improvements in bikes, road surfaces
Beryl Burton 277.25miles, 1967 - 12 hour TT - still stands and is about 15 miles further than the closest rival
NB before discs or tribars and at the time, further than the mens record of 276.52 miles !!…23.104mph
To answer as best as I can MTG.
A few have come forward from this thread 😉 and the audax community are helping as well. I don't know full numbers but I think he's doing OK, I do know that he has had a decent amount of donations as well.
I still think you are wrong concerning bikes/roads/technology. Taking each in turn:-
-Godwin had a state of the art Raliegh Record Ace, it is still an ace steel framed bike today. The advantage would only be had on hills with a lightweight bike, but Godwin avoided them riding in the Midlands/London corridor in the main. Steve basically has a slightly better bike.
-roads. The roads in 1939 were not that bad, the roads in 1911 were an utter disgrace. On your measure, Godwin's record does not do Marcel Planes original 32K justice. In 2014 we have a different problem, we have an inordinate amount of traffic when compared to 1939. I personally think the challenge is similar road wise.
-technology. I am not sure how you gain a massive advantage from communications technology. A marginal gain maybe in knowing what the weather will be like or which roads could be closed. But not a massive gain. Godwin had the support of sponsors and was paced for half of his ride.
In my view the record is about coping with fatigue and the mental pressure of having to cycle constantly no matter how you feel or what is happening in your life or what the weather. Having done several seriously big rides myself, mental fatigue was the worst. After 220 miles I was in a weird place on the road bike and would not want to be in that place every day for 365 days.
I've been in touch with Steve since 2012. He contacted me and we met, it was clear to me and it still is, that he is not trying to do anything other than pay tribute to Godwin. By beating his record, Steve and only Steve will be able to tell us what it is really like, because everyone else who has come close is dead.
I am so glad that this is happening because it will keep the memory of those amazing men and women alive. Finally, from what i know of Godwin, he'd be 100% behind Steve, then ready to get on a bike and go a few miles further himself.
I'm guessing that if Tommy Godwin was sponsored by Sturmey Archer, then his state of the art Raleigh bike had a three speed hub gear.
Good point about the roads. They may be better surfaces now, but there won't be many days when it's possible to do 200 miles in daylight, so finding routes where it's safe to ride fast and far in the dark will be a challenge in itself.
By communication technology, I meant live tracking and everything that goes with it.
It must be a lot more motivating, while following your GPS route, to know that your hosts for the night are watching you on a screen and will put the tea on when they see you are half an hour away, compared to riding along, trying to read the road signs in the dark, hoping they got the telegram telling them that you will be arriving sometime that evening, probably late.
I'm guessing that if Tommy Godwin was sponsored by Sturmey Archer, then his state of the art Raleigh bike had a three speed hub gear.
4 speed, they released a new model in 1939 and he got it first. Steve does a huge amount of his riding fixed.
while following your GPS route, to know that your hosts for the night are watching you on a screen and will put the tea on when they see you are half an hour away, compared to riding along, trying to read the road signs in the dark, hoping they got the telegram telling them that you will be arriving sometime that evening, probably late.
Tommy had Raleigh to do this for him. For 8 months he and Bernard Bennett (the other challenger who has been forgotten) were accompanied and paced by their sponsors in cars. It got so out of hand that they agreed to stop doing it in August. I am certain that some nights he slept in/or under the car. I know he used to kip in fields for an hour or two when desperately tired.
I wrote an FAQ on all of this, it is a bit out of date, but check out the July mileage days!!!
[url= http://phased.co.uk/tommy-godwin-faq/ ]Tommy Godwin FAQ[/url]
Yes its easy 🙄
The record has stood for over 76 years and no one has ever beaten it. Steve may not, but he's going to have a crack at it.
As a challenge see if you can do just 10% of the mileage record across 2015. Then you'll appreciate how much of a challenge this really is.
The technology now is obviously a big thing in terms of planning and communication, (and verification!). But doesn't negate the fact of riding 200+ miles a day. That is only one step short of being sectioned, under any circumstances, surely?
I wonder if the technology level comparison is a red herring. It's simply the world you live in that is normal and with it are pros and cons, relatively I don't see it being any different for them. As butcher says, it's a physical challenge and a mental monster to face.
Just had a thought regarding my hub gear comment above; has Steve asked Rohloff for sponsorship? This does sound like the sort of thing they like to promote their hubs as being good at and it could cut down the overnight maintenance requirements a bit.
Also, I find a single twist grip a lot easier to understand than two levers when still riding past bed time.
So, can people ride with him? What about pacing him?
I bet the cycling community could find someone to ride most of most days with him albeit in shifts.
Edit- I would love to ride a day with him!
Yes, he can ride with others and be paced. I think the logistics or organising it are harder than one would imagine. He needs you on the road 5am to 10pm in the area where he has decided to ride. You really need to head to where the weather is kindest. Legend has it on one bad day Godwin's mates cleared ice off a 200ft section of road and he did reps on it for 16 hours.
Am I missing something here or would this whole thing be a million times easier if he just did the same 200 mile loop every day and went back to his own house where his missus could make him a cup of tea and 30 sandwiches?
Thas what I'd do.
I think the people slagging off him, his website or questioning the validity of his attempt are doing it because they cannot comprehend what an undertaking this is. I am disappointed that people can't see past the lack of good PR and see what an amazing challenge, and how much mental toughness this guy will have.
The odd trail centre ride, or riding your bike every day for a few hours, or even a 24 hour race don't even come close to the level of effort and commitment required.
My house is open to him for his attempt.
Yes, he can ride with others and be paced. I think the logistics or organising it are harder than one would imagine. He needs you on the road 5am to 10pm in the area where he has decided to ride. You really need to head to where the weather is kindest.
Surely thats part of the Social Media Managers job? We don't need to be on the road with him at a certain time (after all, the hosts may not want their addresses published) all we need is an hourly updated route with the next waypoint on it??? Smartphones [i][b]should[/b][/i] make logistics a doddle 😉
Am I missing something here or would this whole thing be a million times easier if he just did the same 200 mile loop every day and went back to his own house where his missus could make him a cup of tea and 30 sandwiches
That's what I always assumed Tommy Godwin did? Or at least rode from home (I imagine the same 200 mile loop would get [i]very[/i] dull). And then returned home for supper, sleep, and maybe even some revitalising sexytime.
Keep things simple, I say.
Am I missing something here or would this whole thing be a million times easier if he just did the same 200 mile loop every day and went back to his own house where his missus could make him a cup of tea and 30 sandwiches?
Logistically easier yes, but have the battle in this going to be the mental challenge.
He's going to need to mix things up to keep his brain working and motivation up.
For 24 hours i imagine its [i]easier[/i] to switch off for a while and just get on with the task in hand of doing the same loop over and over. It not going to be possible to switch off for a whole year.
I imagine hes not going to be out at a host every night, but when the weather may want to better in certain areas, or he wants to come up north for a proper pie 😀
Steve's stated that he would like to include some events to keep his motivation up, so a host night will be twinned with that. I imagine that less than 50% of nights will be with a host.
You could have a few bikes setup, ready to go. Maybe summer and winter bikes. Spares dropped off at various points around the route. Bag of tubes in a 24 hour petrol station here, an emergency pork pie behind a telephone box there...
I think the people slagging off him, his website or questioning the validity of his attempt are doing it because they cannot comprehend what an undertaking this is. I am disappointed that people can't see past the lack of good PR and see what an amazing challenge, and how much mental toughness this guy will have
I think the opposite is true. I think people can't believe such a worthy challenge has got such poor media presence- this is and should be huge!!!
I've been quite vocal in here not because I'm some kind of expert but precisely because I'm not- I'm a chuffing Gamekeeper for god sake 😀
I think when a man who plucks pheasants for a living picks holes in your website- you know its bad 😉
For 24 hours i imagine its easier to switch off for a while and just get on with the task in hand of doing the same loop over and over. It not going to be possible to switch off for a whole year.
I reckon I'd prefer to deal with that rather than encounter a few flaky/idiotic/murderous hosts along the way, not to mention the complete lack of navigational issues.
In fact, I've convinced myself to have a go at this in 2016. Who's up for paying my mortgage?
In fact, I've convinced myself to have a go at this in 2016. Who's up for paying my mortgage?
I'll put a tenner in, twenty if you can get Guy Martin to go head to head with you
Some observations.
I think the host requirements have a really dry humour running through them. I wish I could help, but I don't have a spare room.
I have a (post-war) Record Ace. I'd rather ride it over 200 miles than a carbon bike. caveat - I've never ridden 200 in a day, although I have done 140.
Personally I'd do as terrahawk suggests, but work out half a dozen routes. I did 100 a day for 2 weeks once, point to point. I was weeping for my own bed by the end.
The very best of luck to him.
I'll put a tenner in, twenty if you can get Guy Martin to go head to head with you
We're off and running...
I reckon of give this a go for a year..
But it's raining and I'm busy..
So I won't..
DrP
We can talk about technology all we like, but it has made very little difference to the rolling resistance of a bike over the last 80 years.
My 1934 Sunbeam RR rolls just as nicely as any of my other singlespeed road bikes.
The rider still has to do the work, and there's no human technology fix* for that. Gearing makes it feel easier but to travel at a given speed for a given time takes the same amount of work.
(*Lance may differ)
Am I missing something here or would this whole thing be a million times easier if he just did the same 200 mile loop every day and went back to his own house where his missus could make him a cup of tea and 30 sandwiches
i did this earlier in the year, did 302km (187 miles) - was never more than 25 miles from home, left at 5:13am, popped home twice, for breakfast at 8:30ish and lunch, 12:30ish, looped to my mums for a late evening coffee, home by 7pm to put the kids to bed,
average watts, 198
not sure i could do it everyday though 🙂 moving to Lincolnshire would maybe help though
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http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y394/dansipods2/ScreenShot2014-11-26at233344_zps97d6f980.pn g"/> [/IMG][/URL]
Mentally off-the-scale-harder. Or would be for me anyway, based on imagining doing it for 2-3 weeks maybe since a year is too much to really understand here.would this whole thing be a million times easier if he just did the same 200 mile loop every day
If the scenery changes and you're enjoying yourself (or stay motivated, at least) you can overcome a lot of discomfort to be up at 4-5am for yet another 18 hour ride, day after day. There's a sense of moving forwards and change. But to do that locally on the same loop for a year? Groundhog day. Not a chance, I could guarantee I'd be a ex-cyclist golfer or fish-tank enthusiast by day 366 : ) but wouldn't get that far to worry about it..
I read about Tommy Godwin in Boneshaker Magazine a couple of months ago and then did a bit of research into him. I have immense respect for his achievement, but of course know next to nothing about the man himself. Much of Tommy Godwin's route seems to be from Stoke on Trent to Hemel Hempstead, back and forth between two places to stay.
It'd be a staggering feat if Steve manages to pull this off. Where is he planning on cycling? Let us know when the website's back up.
Same here at an overnight event in Sweden. Took just under 10hrs, a guy I work with finished the 300km about 10 mins quicker than me then after a quick breakfast went out for another 20 miles to 'do a Godwin day'. I took his word for it, I was asleep.i did this earlier in the year, did 302km (187 miles)
Let us know when the website's back up.
It fell over after too many views and is apparently being "beefed up"
No.
I have to disagree with MTG and those others taking issue with the "Host requirements" OK they are written in a rather straight forward, blunt fashion which some readers seem to interpret as being demanding, but I read them as giving quite an honest run down of what is needed, with nothing left out and no pretences.
The fella is having a serious crack at a Year long record attempt, So he's not going to want you to volunteer under the impression that you get an interesting house guest for the evening who's up for some late night chatter over wine and nibbles... you are putting yourself forward for one night of minor effort to contribute to a year long campaign.
A knackered fella who rode 1400 miles last week and will ride the same next week is making a pit stop at your home (because you said you could accommodate him), he needs a shower, a place to sleep, his kit cleaning, his light batteries charging, and quite likely his bike giving the once over, as a volunteer you get to say you contributed to the support of a pretty tough record attempt, and I'm sure you'll get a thank you when it's over...
Honestly if you write the guy off as a nob because you don't like the tone of his website, I doubt you are what is required in a "host".
I'll not be volunteering because I couldn't guarantee the spare bed in our house, we're at capacity already, all the rest of it I'd be happy enough with, and if he wasn't feeling very chatty, I think I'd understand TBH...
Cookeaa and ianfitz I agree entirely! Strikes me as a very sensible (if blunt) set of requirements.
I'd love to help, but have 2 small kids who like waking at odd times.... And live at 300m up on a steep hill...
Good luck to him!
Holy thread resurrection!
I've done a quick rewrite for Steve. If you can help me with feedback in the next 12-24 hours please email me dave@phased.co.uk and I will give you access to the google document
Rules:-
-you'd be doing the work 😉
-please edit the document direct, don't suggested edits, like "why not rewrite it like this..."
Thanks for anyone that can help, MTG maybe?
Dave
I met Steve at a wedding in the New Forest .He rode to it from Milton Keynes and rode home afterwards.Also when training to do Paris Brest Paris Audax on a tandem triplet he rode to Somerset to train on it and back to Mk. after .I rode the triplet a couple of times to get the other two guys used to it .He is single minded and hard as nails on a bike and I reckon he will do it.
Just in case anyone is interested.
Two americans are going head to head with Steve next year. It's going to be a proper race! One of them is a top ten RAAM solo finisher.
Crikey! I just seen him in the local newspaper. He must live about a mile from me! I really hope I bump into him (early) one summer sunday to wish him well.
Is anyone else following Steve's progress?
[url= http://oneyeartimetrial.org.uk ]bloody impressive[/url]