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Looking for second hand, value for money, something that runs and causes as little bother and expense as possible. Has to go forwards, backwards and round corners when I turn the steering wheel. Don't care what it looks like, and won't be driving big miles.
Currently have a 10 year old Scenic which has had various issues over the years, but is a good design and can swallow an adult bike and two kids bikes upright with central seat removed. I probably prefer that layout, instead of dismantling stuff to lay it flat in an estate, for example.
Something like the Skoda Roomster that was mentioned on another thread looks good. Any other recommendations?
Is having bikes inside the car an absolute then?
Berlingo?
No, can use a rack if necessary, but find the internal loading handy for most situations.
I have just got atouran. Has matching internal bike rack.
Why do people bother with racks when their cars are empty? I sometimes see people alone in cars with a bike strapped like a trophy on the boot or roof, waiting to be stolen, damaged or sprayed with salty water. Ive even seen people driving vans with single bikes displayed on the towbar rack. Absolutely bonkers.
second hand, value for money, something that runs and causes as little bother and expense as possible. Has to go forwards, backwards and round corners when I turn the steering wheel. Don't care what it looks like,
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Currently have a 10 year old Scenic which has had various issues over the years, but is a good design and can swallow an adult bike and two kids bikes upright with central seat removed.
Snap! (Although with one kid on the way, no others at present)
I have just got atouran. Has matching internal bike rack.
Sounds good, will look into that. Never use external racks these days
Edit: You may ask why a couple have a Scenic and no kids. In fact it is often asked by people. We inherited the car and it has turned out to be not so bad after all. Great for carrying bikes inside
Why do people bother with racks when their cars are empty? I sometimes see people alone in cars with a bike strapped like a trophy on the boot or roof, waiting to be stolen, damaged or sprayed with salty water. Ive even seen people driving vans with single bikes displayed on the towbar rack. Absolutely bonkers.
Maybe because sticking it on the roof means you don't have to:
Take the children's seats out and store them.
Take the pram, dog bed, rucksack child carrier, shopping bags, etc out and store them.
Sheet up the car to avoid it getting covered in mud.
Wash the sheets once they get covered in mud.
Take wheels off and then put them back on again.
Etc.....
Car wise:
Berlingo or equivalent (Sister rates hers).
Touran.
C-Max, S-Max.
Zafira.
Another Scenic or other Citroen, Fiat, Seat, Peugeot version.
Mondeo/508/Insignia sized estate?
Most modern cars 'should' be reasonably trouble free but you can get a lemon from any manufacturer. Wouldn't buy French myself but plenty do without problems.
Maybe because sticking it on the roof means you don't have to:Take the children's seats out and store them.
Take the pram, dog bed, rucksack child carrier, shopping bags, etc out and store them.
Sheet up the car to avoid it getting covered in mud.
Wash the sheets once they get covered in mud.
Take wheels off and then put them back on again.
Etc.....
You know you can skip most of those steps if you have kids, who will cover the interior of the car in mud or worse anyway? And if you don't have kids, I don't want to know why you have child seats and a pushchair in the car.
Espace is great we have a normal size one but there is a Grand Espace available too. If I'm honest as the children got older it was a bit of a hassle getting there bikes in, We also have a Caravelle now and I use a rack on both cars generally unless just one of two bikes.
If you get a rack that slides away from the car it makes loads of difference, easy access to the boot when all the bikes are on the rack.
I always try to put my bike in the car but family trips always found it better to stick them on the outside. Rack gives you better options for holidays etc.
Drove a Skoda Superb the other day - it was only a base model but amazing space and well make. Compared to an A4 I had a while back I'd have the Skoda all day long!
Anyway personally I'd get an Espace and a rack - covers loads of options and you should get a good one at not crazy £££
Fiat doblo. 1.3 multijet version
Our C-max has been very reliable. About the same size as a Scenic. The middle seat comes out so you can poke a full size bike through.
Edit: You may ask why a couple have a Scenic and no kids. In fact it is often asked by people. We inherited the car and it has turned out to be not so bad after all. Great for carrying bikes inside
Same no kids.
Micro camper when required istheplanalso
Berlingo or roomster type thing
globalti - Member
Why do people bother with racks when their cars are empty? I sometimes see people alone in cars with a bike strapped like a trophy on the boot or roof, waiting to be stolen, damaged or sprayed with salty water. Ive even seen people driving vans with single bikes displayed on the towbar rack. Absolutely bonkers.
err. cos the interior of my estate car is usually clean and tidy and it is less time/easier to pop dirty wet bike on roof (racks are always there) than fold down seats, move stuff, put in a liner/blanket whatever, remove front wheel etc
not bonkers 🙂
Maybe because sticking it on the roof means you don't have to:Take the children's seats out and store them.
Take the pram, dog bed, rucksack child carrier, shopping bags, etc out and store them.
Sheet up the car to avoid it getting covered in mud.
Wash the sheets once they get covered in mud.
Take wheels off and then put them back on again.
Etc.....
This. Before kids I'd just leave my back seats down and a tarp on top most of the time. Now with two kids it's much easier to just stick the bike on the roof rather than faff about removing then refitting the seats.
We have gone from a grand scenic to a Peugoet Partner. Happy in every way. I assume a Berlingo is identical
The space is shorter but taller than the scenic which is a bit less good for bikes
But overall it's great. I thought it would feel like a step down.
Sticking a bike on the roof is so much more convenient. Ride upto the car, 20 seconds it's on the roof, change with the luxury of an empty boot, then you're in the car while others are still dismantling their bikes and carefully leaning over risking putting their backs out delicately trying to place their bike over their sheet and not touching the sides and carefully laying all the bits they've had to dismantle on the bike in such a way it doesn't case any damage or slide about scuffing up the interior of the car.
Also, if the bike is going to get knicked at least they can knick it without smashing windows in and causing whatever else damage to your car while they're in the process. having bikes in the car is no more or less secure than having them on a rack.
On the basis the bikes will be going on the outside of the car either on a roof mounted rack, or rear mounted rack, then why would you need a larger car than necessary for a biking family? Just any old hatchback with a roof rack will do. You're not going to fit all bikes in the car as well as the family and all the rest of the gear.
^^^^ that plus 1
The only car I’d swap my Galaxy for is a Superb. They are massive inside & so nice to drive.
Definitely on my list.
But my older model Galaxy just keeps on going about it’s business, turning in 37mpg, not complaining about stop start driving & offering fantastic versatility as the 5 rear seats come fully out. It practically leaves you with a van. None of the current crop of large MPV’s come close, for sensible money.
Also, if the bike is going to get knicked at least they can knick it without smashing windows in and causing whatever else damage to your car while they're in the process. having bikes in the car is no more or less secure than having them on a rack.
That is literally true. But it's quite easy to hide bike in a car. Putting it on the roof could not broadcast it more widely
On the roof is really convenient. But it does impact mpg which I think is why I do it less often now
Berlingo. Best purchase I've made in a long time. Swallows bikes and kids and pushchairs.
Yesterday I had my full suss with wheels on in it combined with a unfolded pushchair, two kids in baby seats, biking gear and an aldi shop. Loads of room to spare as well. Awesome piece of kit.
Ugly mind.
Old Mondeo estate, massive.
Prefer putting bikes on the roof kids or no kids.
I've had a Fiat Doblo for over 10 years now and can't fault it.
Touran here with towbar rack. Very vedsatile car and exceptionally boring but does what it does well. Ours is coming up on 5 years old, been pretty good, first one we had was a money pit. Also had Scenics before we had kids. First one was great, 2nd one sucked big time. Touran is better and bigger.
Berlingo
Fiat Doblo
Caddy Maxi Life
Doblo maybe the best deal?
Got a grand scenic here, cavernous and useful boot space + roof box and roof rack and boot rack. Mileage is rubbish but it's great for trips and holidays
Just bought our third partner/berlingo in a row.
Simply put nothing else in its size and price is as good at carrying bikes.
Just picked up a 15 plate top spec outdoor tepee (so the full gambit of airbags and curtain air bags you don't get in the active as well as esp , parking sensors black tinted rear windows and integral sun blinds, Bluetooth head unit and folding mirrora)
5000 miles on the clock , full service history and just had first mot. In gun metal grey with the best alloy option (imo)
£8900
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Interestingly when i ride with my.mates with all their different racks the least hassle by a country mile is ths bike in the back of the berlingo with the tail gate to stay dry under. Bikes on cars suck.
Can't fault our SMAX.
Two adults, a dog and *lots* of camping gearis an absolute breeze.
Have never used the rear 2 (of 7) seats but, as the middle row of 3 fold independently, my other favourite configuration is one middle seat folded, one bike in a bike bag lengthwise (behind driver) boot full of cycling kit, 3 bikes on towbar rack, and 4 cyclists with acres of legroom.
It's based on the Mondeo chassis, so drives just like a car - so much more so than the Galaxy that I test drove beforehand.
The Galaxy was definitely taller but, as I live near Gatwick, I didn't want people to think that I was a minicab driver 😉
Berlingo! I have a 55 plate which has been faultless for the 6 years we have owned it. The most practical car ever. The sliding doors make everything child and family related so simple. Also you can stand up on the rear door steps to roof mount bikes with ease. Massive tailgate to shelter under and bomb proof engines. We won't get rid of it until it's dead then will replace it with another.
Oh yes for about that. Why more cars doñt have sliding doors I don't know thy are ****ing awesome for carparks n shit.
I've got a 54 plate non turbo 1.9 multispace for sale in Aberdeen just now if anyone's nearby and looking.
Now, there's a concept - SMAX with sliding doors 🙂
It would be awesome. Would be like a berlingo with a ford badge.
So it would eat wishbones and have electrical gremlins 🙂
😀
wilburt - Member
Prefer putting kids on the roof bikes or no bikes.
FTFY
Just gone from an older Mazda 6 Estate which was decent to a Skoda Superb Estate 4x4 which is actually superb.
I tend to ride alone so need to keep the bike inside the car. It’s vast.
That partner is making me moist trail rat. I love my b9 xtr but it's an 09 so it's a bit ghetto specwise these days. Still, it has integrated window blinds as well which is awesome.
Can't recommend a berlingo enough.
Just went from an 09 berlingo to a 17 partner - identical in pretty much every way save the badge and a few new toys on the newer model. once we tried the berlingo there was no going back. The in laws also bought a berlingo once they saw ours.
[unless you are Axa insurance - I phoned to switch the policy to the new car to be told that partners are on the list of cars they don't insure. The policy I was trying to amend was for a berlingo. Tried to explain it was the same car...]
There’s lots of votes for berlingos and berlingo-like things. It may have changed since I got mine, but I went for a berlingo over other similar offerings because it had three separate seats in the back instead of a double bench seat and one single. A minor difference but I like the slightly greater flexibility it gives.
Only the top spec berlingos and partners comes with the 3 separate qr removable seats.
The 60/40 is not easily removable
Agree well worth having
zaffira tourer elite here.
swallows 2 built up tourers and a very large driver and his small companion.
C4 Picasso has loads of room. Three individual rear seats that can all be split. Surprised how much more room it has over the Sportage I had before.
Like Trail Rat I ended up with the a low mileage outdoor spec' for about £9000
Can't believe he didn't mention the 115 wild horses under the bonnet. Feels no worse than 130 horses on the old Scenic as its lighter
They even come up well on the car reliability index
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search/16
Mines the older 90bhp spec 1.6 hdi. Doesn't feel overly slow. The three split seats is awesome for getting a bike in as well as kids,
The interior roof bars are good for me as I do a bit of skimming on the side and they can carry my angle beads etc. Even got a removable torch in the boot that holds a charge.
C4 Picasso here for the last couple of years (same as a scenic underneath?) all 3 Rear seats move and fold independently which helps if you want to put people, bikes and luggage inside the car, a few issues have developed over the last few months though so it's likely to be moving on this year...
TBH I wanted a berlingo rather than a picasso, but the boss didn't like the look/size of it, she now refuses to drive the Picasso (even though it was her preferred choice) as it's apparently "too big"... I'm not keen on going back to two cars, but I see a berlingo in my future and a Yaris in hers...
Anybody who thinks a car is 'too big', is probably a poor driver, TBH.
Unless they have a particularly small parking space.
Anybody who thinks a car is 'too big', is probably a poor driver, TBH.
Cobblers.
Cobblers - they like large boots, too 😉
Unless they have[b] a [/b]particularly small parking space.
'a' small parking space? The world is full of multiple small parking spaces. Whilst one of our vehicles is a ducato van and is often a right nause to park the other is a clio. There are many times when I'm glad I don't have a bigger car as I can squeeze into smaller spaces others can't or not perform an elaborate limbo to get out.
Anybody who thinks a car is 'too big', is probably a poor driver, TBH.
Unless they have a particularly small parking space.
You seem like an expert so define for me what exactly a "poor driver" is?
To put it in context, my missus hasn't been driving as long as me, and doesn't need to drive as often, but on balance I would judge her to probably be a safer driver than me, precisely because she isn't overconfident behind the wheel, is more cautious and has a healthy respect for the damage a car plus speed can do...
She, (like me) prefers driving smaller cars, we only have an MPV currently because of child, bike and luggage lugging needs, and choosing to be a one car family...
Big man Parking prowess aside how can car size preference really determine someone's driving ability?
i just park else where if a space is tight - lifes to short to stick your car in a tiny space. it just gets smashed up and then you get pissed off if its anything nice.
i just park else where if a space is tight - lifes to short to stick your car in a tiny space. it
So you waste more time trying to find a bigger space.
rarely takes as long to find a new space as it does to repair damage caused by careless people.
A car can be too big for your garage, it can be too big for your requirements or it can be too big for your driving abilities.
Given that the C4 Picasso (which isn't enormous, really) was chosen by your wife, then the latter is the most likely explanation.
As she doesn't drive much, then she will, of course, find a larger vehicle trickier to handle, but her competence levels aren't going to be improved by not driving the car, and getting the extra experience that comes from doing so.
I'll hold my hand up, and admit that 'poor driver' was probably too strong a phrase - maybe 'needs to practice more' would be better.
The 110 wild horses . You got the bigger one.
Mines only a 92 bhp .... It's enough. The turbos about the size of a walnut.
Just bought a Merc Vito Traveliner as a bike carrier. It’ll take five bikes and five people if you remove front wheels, or will stand two or three up in the back even without folding seats forward. It’s a 2005 so I really don’t care about scratches, dents or dings, and mud is simply swept out. It is only six inches longer than my last car, so is relatively easy to get used to.
Grand Tourneo Connect was going to be the car for me. 7 seats, 5 removable. Full length roof rails for a proper roofrack. Sliding doors. Massive tailgate to shelter under. Kind of like a stretch berlingo......
Test drove like much smaller car. Quite a few low mileage examples around still under warranty.
Had a nice 1.6 eco diesel engine, similar to the Berlingo, C4, SMAX, Partner, Octavia, Superb.........
And I couldn't buy it. I realised that someone had to stop buying diesels or even full blooded petrol (they do a very rare mini turbo petrol version in an auto).
I am a bit suprised that there is so little thought about what devastation nox emissions cause on a cycling forum - most of us are breathing this shit in everytime we jump on our bikes yet all I read is " can I buy a diesel and not lose money" not "can I buy a diesel and not lose 6 months life expectancy"
Change your mindset and your habits. I did.
winston - Member
Grand Tourneo Connect was going to be the car for me. 7 seats, 5 removable. Full length roof rails for a proper roofrack. Sliding doors. Massive tailgate to shelter under. Kind of like a stretch berlingo......Test drove like much smaller car. Quite a few low mileage examples around still under warranty.
Had a nice 1.6 eco diesel engine, similar to the Berlingo, C4, SMAX, Partner, Octavia, Superb.........
And I couldn't buy it. I realised that someone had to stop buying diesels or even full blooded petrol (they do a very rare mini turbo petrol version in an auto).
I am a bit suprised that there is so little thought about what devastation nox emissions cause on a cycling forum - most of us are breathing this shit in everytime we jump on our bikes yet all I read is " can I buy a diesel and not lose money" not "can I buy a diesel and not lose 6 months life expectancy"
Change your mindset and your habits. I did.
Most of us will be limited by budgets and/or alternative options from the automotive industry. Good for you that your lifestyle allows you to make such a choice. Personally with 3 kids, school runs and work commutes my options are somewhat limited.
My partner is a 1.2 petrol - the nox emissions we breathe in while cycling to work are the main issue we said no when they asked if we'd consider diesel.
(For context we live in a city and do relatively low mileage - no business or commuting mileage and no family more than 90 minutes away. We'd love a smaller car but as the majority of our driving involves us having at least 2 bikes with us the berlingo/partner just works)
My beast of a berlingo is 1.4 petrol 😛
Tried to buy a little turbo.
1.2 puretech.
Needed a car now. 1.2 puretech was 16 week wait as well as being 18grand
Test drive was terrible with 3 adults in and was noisy at speed (and at idle as it idled horibly and vibrated badly thanks to the 3cyl)
I also had longevity concerns and couldn't find any examples of high milers to learn from -just a number of acounts of engines being replaced at low milage....
Bought a used latest euro spec diesel and just decided to carry on with my policy of reducing car use and not takin it into town as much as possible rather than improving the car so I can use it with wreckless abandon.
Cargo bike /beater bikes/commuter bikes /bus (and we are not in a town/vilage )
In 10 years time(when this car is dead) when technology has caught up and we have a clear path to rightchousness I'll move on.
90hp is fine for these vans. I drove that engine. If ours is 115hp then it was the luck of what came up used
It is hard at the moment fur used car buyers to opt for petrol in this type of vehicle. I still think that co2 is a big issue which is still in the diesels favour
The issue with the eco turbo petrol units is that they are under more stress than a larger capacity engine and suffer from a lack of longevity. You also have to rev the nuts off them to get moving which makes the whole eco tag unrealistically. In the real world the quoted economy figures and therefore emissions are such BS unless you drive like Miss Daisy.
the issue with the eco turbo petrol units is that they are under more stress than a larger capacity engine and suffer from a lack of longevity. You also have to rev the nuts off them to get
Are lots of them failing?
I'll also bet my 1.4 petrol that's 14 years old pumps out more crap than a new diesel
I wouldnt bet too much tho as I've no idea as to the rights and wrongs of what crap actually comes out.
Mine was bought purely on the recommendation of a mechanic friend who said the engine was fairly bulletproof, touch wood
I'll also bet my 1.4 petrol that's 14 years old pumps out more crap than a new diesel
In real world tests, not claimed performance, I'm not so sure..
Edit:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/green-motoring/11187483/New-or-old-which-is-greener.html
https://amp.ft.com/content/e6e335a2-9ba1-11e7-8cd4-932067fbf946
Hmmmm
Thanks for all the suggestions