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So, assuming I'm okay with the standover height, can I just buy a bike 60mm longer and put a 10mm stem on it to fake Forward Geometry? And if it's so good, why aren't we all doing it already?
Yes
a 60mm longer bike may be 2+ sizes too big for you.
lot's of people already are.... kind of.
long top tube, short stem (Ragleys) and without having your bars perched high up on top of the steerer.
i find the look of the FG Mondrakers rather fugly.
2nd Alpin, those mondrakers look awful, they have decided to make the FG a design statement unlike other likeminded bikes.
Dunno if its any better or not, quite happy with the tiller on my bike.
That would be the real thing, not fake, wouldn't it? Or did I miss something?
What 10mm stem would you use, out of interest?
You cant beat marketing speak.
was this not done years ago with the 'Genesis Geometry' by Gary Fisher?
I can't imagine a 10mm stem being very nice at all! I've tried a 40mm stem on my Blue Pig and it felt very strange.
only to get that would be with "virtual" sized (lower standover) frames, and then you'd end with a huge wheelbase that rides like a barge most likely?
do these bikes use standard forks?
vitalmtb beat you to it:
looks good!
The forward concept uses the relationship between the ultra short stem and the really slack headangle to work I believe, so the bigger frame with short stem idea isn't really a goer (ignoring the other issues re. fit e.t.c)
Could work for a frame that you can run decent offset cups in.
The forward concept uses the relationship between the ultra short stem and the really slack headangle to work I believe, so the bigger frame with short stem idea isn't really a goer (ignoring the other issues re. fit e.t.c)
reducer headset?
In theory yes, but probably not as well as the real thing
lots of flatland bmx stems for you to try with:
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Was thinking of going up to the Large Nukeproof Mega you see, as according to the sizing charts I'm suitable for the Medium or Large. I'd fit a 35mm stem on it instead of my current 50mm stem.
Do you think a 35mm stem would mess up the handling?
If you ran the forks really slack to compensate of the ultra short stem, maybe, but may just end up a bit too slack and 'floppy' on anything other than downhills.
From speaking to people who've ridden the forward Mondrakers they're a bit wandery on climbs
i thought the idea was to get stability from the longer wheelbase rather than going down the road of a really slack head angle and lots of trail. This would give stability without the floppy/slow low speed steering. The super short stem would also quicken the steering somewhat.
Also, as you're positioned much further behind the front axle (due to the long front centre) would make it much harder to go over the bars on the dh's too. Much like a slack head angle does, but possibly more so as you may have to go to silly slack head angles to get the front centre lengths the mondrakers have. And as trail increases exponentially with HA you might end up with super-floppy steering to achieve FG-esque front centre lengths.
I reckon they (an FG bike) would need a fair adjustment in riding technique to weight the front wheel enough on less than steep dh's and also to manage the long wheelbase in tight turns (up and downhill - you can see Fabien Barel endo-ing to get the back wheel round the switchbacks in his FG promo vid) but I can see how it'd work for some people. They're probably quite a marmite bike.
All this is theorising as I've not ridden one but would love to have a go! Probably find I've got it completely wrong 🙂
EDIT: PS bwaarp - i reckon it would speed the steering up but the bike would still be nice and stable because of the longer wheelbase - be interested to hear how it works out if you try it!
35mm isnt' ultra short.
And a short stem doesn't require a slack H/A to work well at all.
I've been running a 40mm stem on my hardtail for years. It has a 69deg H/A and relitively short TT (22" and I'm 5'11")
It's having too long a top tube that requires the slacker H/A
I'm sure the HA of the mondraker isn't super slack anyway??
DrP
GW, DrP - i think we're saying the same thing. My impression is the idea on FG is to get benefits of a long front centre without going super slack. Stable, good DH AND quick/precise steering.
With enought marketing your product can stand out from the crowd.
That's not really Cesar's angle.. he's an engineer who can actually ride a bike not some **** in a 'shed' simply jumping on the latest trend.
"really slack headangle to work"
Could be wrong but thought it was still 68deg with 140mm fork, so pretty middleground angles? Just really long top tube
I'd have thought for most people trying to fake it would be very difficult finding a 60mm longer ETT bike than they're used to. Roughly if a medium 'trail' frame has a ETT around 590mm ish, or that kind of ballpark, then finding anything with an ETT of 650mm on anything less than a 23" frame would be pretty rare bike?