Extending transmission life on rental e-bikes

I've only recently tried a bike with an Enviolo hub, and I can see how that would remove your issues. Very intuitive for non-bike riders and avoids exactly what you say. There are no 'gears', just a CVT.

If you bikes are mid drive, that could work.

do you need gears at all? if its just for pootling about you could gear something for a fairly high rpm (say 90) at 15mph which would be 30rpm at walking speed - with the e-motor behind you that might be ok?

I would be tempted to buy some alfine / nexus wheels and try them.  they will go in conventional 135mm frames no bother but you need a tensioner.  I have not seen ebikes with alfines tho and I would go fairly high on the gearing on them to reduce stress on the hubs

I'd try a hub gear on a couple and see if it helps.

We definately need gears. We are in Snowdonia and everywhere is steep for non cyclists.

Im going to check those options above.

Any other suggestions gratefully received. The Cube step-through bikes are def q/r...

Linkglide transmissions? supposed to be much tougher?

SRAM single click shifers might help a little? There's a 8/9 speed SRAM e-bike transmission also.

Edit - SRAM EX1 is 8-speed

https://r2-bike.com/SRAM-EX1-E-Bike-Cassette-8-speed-E-Block-XG-899-11-48-teeth

can you offer training and maybe make them sign something saying they wont change gear stationary etc ?

Canyon seem to have some hub-geared eBikes but I’m damned if I can work out what hub it is. IIRC Alfines used to have a maximum rated torque which meant there was a limit how low geared you could go, and the motor won’t help with that?

if everything is steep you might find afine pretty useless (unless you go for the 12 speed stuff, which is expensive). The gear range on the 7 and 8 speed stuff is relatively low - so maybe buy a single setup first and see how you go.

I’ve only recently tried a bike with an Enviolo hub

They would really solve the problem but they aren't cheap 🙁

I help on a similar project and have been working out how to get best value from parts. Ours are all cube electric hybrids and mountain bikes and used by people starting out riding or getting exercise with things like joint replacement, arthritis.

We have gone for just replacing with basic drivetrain parts to minimise costs and accepting will need to keep on top of condition, e.g. regular checking chain condition and checking after heavy shifting riders.

We also do taster rides and confidence boosting lessons so can try to pass on tips for gear shifting if needed.

We have down graded all (as higher end parts wore out) to 9 speed shimano trekking type derailleur and gears.

It means sacrficing things like weight saving, range and features like clutches that come on higher end groupsets but costs less and also seem to lasts longer than the more expensive parts which were originally fitted.

As a bonus the 9 speed is very forgiving of rough shifts and so is more confidence inspiring to beginners as doesn't click or sounds as fragile. 11-36 cassettes are all steel and lifespan ends up about 1500-2000 miles.

Would say better to save on drivetrain but not on brake discs and pads. The basic shimano discs seem to wear very quickly and the pads can really overheat with heavy riders.

Would be interested to know how you find hub gears any better. We are reaching 3 years of use and the freehubs are starting to go a bit wobbly and wheels losing tension more frequently now so looking at new rear wheels anyway. Having said that we had an ebike donated with 3 speed hub gear and decided to switch to derailleur for ease of puncture repair and commonality across the fleet.

Also check your stands if fitted, lots of our bikes are used for things like shopping so when add the weight of the ebike they seem to be a weak point. We had one fail totally and by the point of first needing to replace the whole drivetrain due to wear we found a couple more with cracks forming around the attachment bolt holes.

Linkglide may be your best bet. I’ve not had mine long enough to give a full report on durability but it’s boding well based on the first few months. Previously I’ve had XT and SRAM NX shifters and mechs and various 11 speed cassettes, mostly SLX. I’m not a beginner but pedalling hard on short commutes with full leg and motor power is v hard on rear sprockets.

Liberal amounts of thick wet lube helps too, there seems to be a need for lube between chain roller and sprocket tooth.

I think Enviolo looks fantastic. I had a ride of our brand new Raleigh cargo bike thats enviolo equipped?

Has anyone built one or got any experience. It totally seems great for non cyclists to get people on a bike.

What would we need other than the hub?

Thanks

Ian

can you offer training and maybe make them sign something saying they wont change gear stationary etc ?

And perhaps there could be a fine for drivetrain damage through negligence, and an optional extra insurance to cover that, like car hire companies do.

My personal opinion though, people need to take responsibility for not damaging things, rather than spending grant/whatever funding on upgrading things to deal with abuse.

Do some Alfine bikes for the real novices, then change the rest for cheapest Shimano 9 speed steel cogs, and just replace more often.
Definitely do a guide and even a YouTube vid on gear changing, with instruction to finish a ride in a decent gear.
Why any e-bikes come with 12 speed, 9 or ten would be much more durable and make zero difference to the ride with all that torque.

Our ebikes are all 8 and 9 speed. However the damage keeps occuring. I would have to say the Cube step-thru bikes require the least work when they return, but maybe because they appealnto a different rider than the HT mtbs.

And perhaps there could be a fine for drivetrain damage through negligence, and an optional extra insurance to cover that, like car hire companies do.

its the technology that's the fail - not humans. If these are people who have never ridden gears before the concept of letting off the power a bit before a shift and not cross chainring-ing a chain (on double and triples) is absolutely alien and is only required because the drivetrain technology in this application is actually a bit shit.
Double/triple shifters were a nightmare to explain - "left shifter big button for bigger sized chainring to make you go faster"

erm.....right shifter big button for bigger gears that make you go slower"🤷‍♂️

Nuvinci/Enviolo CVT hubs and Shimano Nexus automatic are a step in the right direction if we want 'normal people' to just jump on a bike and pedal it without faffage.

I'm guessing some of you don't work in public-facing roles...

OP it doesn't matter what one does someone will always break things. We have people who claim to cycle every day bring our bikes back mutilated and maimed. Recently a Medical Consultant who ignored the tick ticking of a derailleur pinging the spokes after it was parked up at lunchtime. One ruined deraileur, hanger and 6 spokes broken when the wheel caught and held on.

We supply breakdown cover for our hire bikes. No one calls if they have a problem only if the bike will not go. It mystifies me why folk will continue riding a bike with a continuous noise, they're supposed to be silent in use.

Apple needs to make a bike transmission - yes it'll be expensive but it will just work and my oap parents could get on and pedal up hill and down dale without having me as technical support

I think the old Shimano low-normal derailleurs were intended to help with this. The shift to larger sprockets was done by the spring so you couldn't just mash through multiple gears. Probably a good thing for beginners, but experienced riders were used to high-normal and it was a commercial flop.

However, a lot of people expect that stuff just works without needing any skill on the part of the user. I'm old enough to have driven a few cars without synchromesh on first gear - you'd have to double declutch to get down to first without graunching. Same with using a manual choke to start the engine when it was cold - if you got it wrong, you'd flood the engine. Beginners are always going to struggle with derailleur based systems, especially with 2x or 3x front gears, and they expect to just get on a bike and ride without needing a lesson on gearshifting.

My thinking would be to use a steel 9-speed cassette converted to 7-speed so it can be spaced out further away from the spokes, plus a 3-speed rear hub. If it's possible to fit a derailleur guard as well, that should help with the inevitable occurrences of dropping the bike on the derailleur.

We got a bit of extra grant for our e-cargobike project and the Enviolos were worth the extra investment. However we needed to do a bit of tweaking to get really low gears (riding loaded bikes round Yorkshire hills you need everything you can get) so if you do that you need to check ratios before you click buy.

@clover can you expand a bit on what you did? Im going to put a case forwards for these hubs but i need to be fully aware of probs and solutions. Oh, and costings!!

You can get LinkGlide 9 speed aka CUES. It’s designed to shift smoothly rather than fast, reducing wear. It shifts fine on an ebike when the motor is pulling hard, no big bangs and clunks like normal cassettes.

Widest range 9 speed cassette is 11-46. I’d try it on one bike (you’ll need new shifter and mech too) and see how well it performs.

I feel your pain. We are throwing almost new Sram Eagle cassettes in the recycling bin almost every week due to people shifting under load on our rental E-bikes. The media states that you can shift under load with these systems so you can't really blame the consumers for doing this.

I rode the Enviolo hub when they were branded NuVinci around 10 years ago. It seemed like a good system at the time. It was heavy, but that doesn't matter so much on E-bikes. I had an Alfine 8 hub on my mountain bike for a while around the same time. IIRC it didn't like shifting under load. Maybe things have changed.

The Linkglide seems like a good option if it ends up being as durable as the hype.

Update! I thought I hadn’t done that many miles on my LinkGlide drivetrain. Turns out I’ve done about 700! Now that may not sound like much, but as quite a lot of that mileage is full power (both me and the motor) sprinting to and from work that would normally cause quite a lot of wear.

With my old 11s SLX cassettes I’d notice them feeling worn (worse shifting etc) at about 600 miles and by 1200 miles they’d be unrideable. SRAM NX was worse. Microshift was so bad I had the chain jumping sprocket teeth within 200 miles!

LinkGlide is still feeling like new at 700 miles and measuring close to zero chain wear.

a lot of people expect that stuff just works without needing any skill on the part of the user

Agreed. My earlier suggestion was harsh.

I'm probably quite fond of operating all manner of things that require skill. It annoys me when people ignorantly continue to use things that are making bad noises, or just don't show any mechanical sympathy. People who just don't understand how anything works. But the world has decided that it's ok to be like that, they don't need to learn/change.

Does the Cues kit jist run a normal 9sp chain or is it specific?

All the LinkGlide/CUES stuff is made for normal 11 speed chains. And the 9/10/11 speed cassettes/mechs/shifters are all the same spacing and cable pull ratios, so you can use any of them together, just adjust the mech limit screws to suit how many speeds are on the cassette.