[Closed] Ethical Chinese carbon manufacturing?

Much of Chinese manufacturing is environmentally unfriendly and bad for its workers, singling out carbon is really pointless. They do seem to be making an effort to at least move in the right direction for environmental protection though, even if they still have a long way to go.

carbon manufacturing anywhere is environmentally unfriendly...

carbon manufacturing anywhere is environmentally unfriendly…

pink bike Alu vs Carbon article myth vs facts

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/aluminum-vs-carbon-separating-environmental-fact-from-fiction-in-the-frame-materials-debate.html

carbon manufacturing anywhere is environmentally unfriendly…

also:

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From that article :

Carbon bikes ... generally out-last aluminum, and fetch a better price on the resale market. ... Aluminum may be more easily recycled, but on the other hand, you may be able to pass your carbon bike down to your great grandchildren.

Is that actually true - I am more wary of buying second hand carbon and I remember comments on here saying you hardly ever see a carbon frame older than 5 years.
Mind you 5 years is also suppossed to be the fatigue life for aluminium.

Isn't there also a problem witht he resins used to bond the carbon?

They are susceptible to UV yes but if you don't leave your bike outside it doesn't get much exposure - and they are painted to cover the resin up.

Isn’t there also a problem witht he resins used to bond the carbon?

Yes but as above, also my wheels have a 3k veneer over UD body, so the structural part of the wheel is protected from light regardless.

Carbon has been used for bike frame manufacture for 30+ years, it's a very mature technology - apart from the galvanic corrosion problems encountered with the bonded alloy lug construction in the early 1990s, there are few problems these days. If you want environmentally friendly, then bamboo would probably be your best choice of frame material.

Carbon has been used for bike frame manufacture for 30+ years, it’s a very mature technology – apart from the galvanic corrosion problems encountered with the bonded alloy lug construction in the early 1990s, there are few problems these days. If you want environmentally friendly, then bamboo would probably be your best choice of frame material.

But you still have to ship that Bamboo in from somewhere (China?), and bond it together with something (carbon fibre and resin). I'd be surprised if a home build bamboo frame had a lower environmental impact than a carbon fibre frame.

Isn’t there also a problem witht he resins used to bond the carbon?

It doesn't last indefinitely, I wouldn't have thought UV was much of an issue on a bike frame as even if it was it would only penetrate the outer cosmetic layer of resin not the stuff holding the fibres together. Look at the carbon masts on boats, the varnish lasts 4-5 years and is in the sun before it needs sanding of and reapplying. Eventually though repeated flexing will cause the layers to come apart (delamination), the upside of that is that bikes aren't really designed to flex (to the extent of say ice hockey sticks, fishing rods, boat masts, badminton racquets) which means they should last a very very long time.

But as noted in the other thread, the amount of energy used to make any frame is outstripped as soon as you put it in a car for the first time and drive to a trail.

So the real story should be somewhere in China the following conversation happening:
"A mate of mine is insisting (via his English gf) that carbon bike riding in England is environmentally unfriendly"

As a counterpoint, it's not as simple as strolling into your LBS and asking for the Ethically/Environmentally responsibly produced and competitively priced alternative is it? I've never seen a showroom card that tells you how much embodied carbon/pollution was involved in the manufacture and distribution of a bike...

Blissful ignorance is most consumer's position when it comes to bicycles...

I could produce a carbon or steel frame in my Garage if I felt so inclined, I'm not entirely sure how environmentally responsible I would be about it if I'm honest...

It's more to do with worker's conditions and environmental pollution in the immediate sense than overall carbon footprint.

you may be able to pass your carbon bike down to your great grandchildren

assuming the wheel size/ headset/ BB brake mount standard isn't redundant.

It’s more to do with worker’s conditions and environmental pollution in the immediate sense than overall carbon footprint.

In that case, any worse than the amount of crap inadvertently left in the environment whilst it's being ridden. The average bike must get through litres of chain oil and assorted other lubes. Gallons of detergent and surfactant solutions. Habitat lost to trail building. Inadvertent (or deliberate) litter dropping, etc etc.

Averaged over tens of thousands of bikes made in a factory it would still have to be really poor to be the worst step in the chain.

I'm sure some are indeed not meeting the standards we might expect them to, but I doubt it's the big ones. I'm sure Specialized (or Trek, or Giant, or Cannondale) would dearly love to tip off the press if they could show their competitors factory wasn't upto the same standard as theirs (and knowing that others would do likewise would be making sure theirs was squeaky clean too).

I’ve had engineers go out and audit the supply chain in China and repeatedly they’ve returned with ethical issues relating to Health Safety and Environmental. The results have been either actively managing the supply chain or going elsewhere.

There are lots of reasons why it’s a cost efficient place to buy products however the differences in environmental standards and enforcement are one of the reasons for the low costs.