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All events should instigate a 'litter and disqualified' rule
FWIW, some commissaires in road races I've done state in briefing that if they see you littering you'll be disqualified.
Yep it should be if you get caught littering DQed for sure. It's not even a race so just spin around and pick it up.
I'd love to see gels banned (not realistic I agree), as they seem the biggest problem for litter. You don't even need them if you eat and drink properly.
The point is that it was cleared up afterwards
That is absolutely not the point
Yep it should be if you get caught littering DQed for sure
not just DQ, but published on the result board for everyone to see:
[i]Fred Bloggs - Littering DQ[/i]
Shame may compel them to behave better (then again it may not). I guess there's the problem of policing and genuine accidents too.
The litter bag behind board idea could have legs, although a lot of race and sportive boards are much smaller than MTB boards so not sure if there would be room?
Needs a culture shift but that will take time, so anything that can 'help' people to behave better is a good thing, even if the fact you need to is so disappointing.
I blame all these Southerners
Quelle surprise.
That is absolutely not the point
I think it is the point. An event of this size and nature is always going to result in litter. Whether because a (even a tiny) proportion of people are anti-social a***** or because of inadvertant dropping of stuff. It's going to happen. I'm not saying that you give a green light to littering and say its ok because it is going to be picked up. I don't know what proportion at the Etape was deliberate or accidental, but knowing that it is going to happen why not just arrange for it to cleared after the event?
& also.
It's not even a race so just spin around and pick it up.
Not easy in a group of 150 people doing 20mph on a narrow road with another bunch coming up. Potentially even quite dangerous, even allowing for the issue of whether you knew you'd dropped it in the first place.
The litter bag behind board idea could have legs, although a lot of race and sportive boards are much smaller than MTB boards so not sure if there would be room?
It was a random idea, but it should be totally doable.
Who makes number boards? A possible nice 'eco' (urgghhh at the word) product to start pushing - a plastic bag with 'litter' on stapled to every board?
some interesting comments on their FB page :
xxxxxx I also did not appreciate the amount of people urinating at the side of the road especially when there was toilets at the aid station.
Like · Reply · 1 hr
xxxxxx As per most comments - there should be some serious words added to the race briefing notes about disgarded gels and bottles. Appreciate sometimes they can fall out of pockets or cages but the amount on the roads was shocking.
Like · Reply · 1 hr
xxxxxx agree completely about the litter, was not a problem to stuff the gel packs into my jacket pocket. Re: peeing it was easy enough to retreat into the bushes in various places. I thought the bottles were accidental drops or racers trying to nobble those behind, sort of depth charge.
Like · Reply · 28 mins
xxxxxx Sadly, I will not be returning next year as I have no wish to participate in an event that makes such a " contribution " to this beautiful area
Like · Reply · 2 hrs
xxxxxxx I agree with the urinating issue, what a disgrace, most of the peeing men didn't even try to hide behind a tree or so, even just went for it in Pitlochry itself! Littering also an issue, why have feed stations when everybody is eating on the go? Great encouragement from people alongside the roads and from the marshalls! Disappointed finish though, not even a goody bag as a reward!
Like · Reply · 1 hr
xxxxxxx Agreed, and I did see one rider purposely discard their wrapper- but in defence of some others, numb hands made it like wearing boxing gloves!
Banana skins are just as bad, 2 years to break down naturally.
Round our way (when I'm MTBing not road) the sheep will try and snaffle the banana and skin before you've even finished eating it!
Not easy in a group of 150 people doing 20mph on a narrow road
Stick your hand in the air drift to the back of the bunch, then spin around and roll back to pick up litter. Sure it'll cost you 5-10 minutes, but that's you problem for being useless at putting rubbish in your pocket while moving.
Roll back against the direction of the event on closed roads? Nope I ain't doing that
Roll back against the direction of the event on closed roads? Nope I ain't doing that
bet you would if it was your phone/Garmin, or your spare tube, or wallet
you could always wait at the side of a road for a safe gap to turn back, it all comes down to how much effort you're willing to put in to not leave crap behind.
A lot of the trail races (running) round here make you number your gels - it wouldn't work if they're being handed out at the feed stations but if that's not the case it certainly cuts down on littering.
And I don't know why you end up with sticky hands, just roll the gel wrapper up starting at the top, it means the sticky bit ends up on the inside.
Banana peel decomposes in a few (3-5) weeks. I make a point of dropping them just because of a TJ rant a few years ago and it makes me smile 🙂
As to gels, they go in your pocket or your short leg after use. I can't say that stickiness is a common problem I've found but then I do actually try to eat all the gel in them given the price 😉
You don't even need them if you eat and drink properly.
Well, I think of course you meant YOU don't need them. I find them very useful. other people I know could seemingly ride a double century on two jelly babies. We're all different which makes the world a lovely, interesting place 😉 Still you'd have loved road racing back in the 80s where there were rules about where you were allowed to eat or drink.
Banana peel decomposes in a few (3-5) weeks.
It depends massively on the environment, you can't just say it will take X amount of time.
Banana peel decomposes in a few (3-5) weeks. I make a point of dropping them just because of a TJ rant a few years ago and it makes me smile
Maybe you would be OK with me dropping one in your front garden then. It is only 3-5 weeks with a decomposing item smelling and looking awful. 😕
The another passer by could drop another one in another 3-5 weeks.
Repeat to fade in popular areas. 😐
wow...
STW rears it's ugly cretinous head again.. What a bloody shame
the pathetic and frankly disturbing 'waaaaah, someone wrote something mildly offensive on the internet- this overrides their point about morons dropping litter' is ****ing spineless
FWIW I would very happily indeed be employed to dish out a fully weighted punch in the face to anyone defending dropping gel wrappers
stick that up yer weaselly little arses
stick that up yer weaselly little arses
can I take the weasel out first? He doesn't like gels.
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bet you would if it was your phone Garmin, or your spare tube, or wallet
That wouldn't make it any less dangerous. But overriding that is that it doesn't matter what I would do, or you would do in those circumstances. The fact is, you get a large number of people together and you get litter. Whether it's a bike ride, a charity run, the top of a trail centre descent, a football crowd, a festival or whatever. The end result is the same. So, you can either solve the problem by ranting in a slightly sanctimonious, albeit correct, fashion about what people [i]should[/i] do, but I'm just not sure that is going to do it. Alternatively you could propose to mitigate what occurs by suggesting the practical step of getting the organisers to deal with it by using some of the entrance fee to clean up. (If they aren't already doing that)
Many years ago a friend pointed out to me that gels have exactly the same consistency, volume and texture as man love juice. I've never been able to swallow them since. Perhaps pointing this out to other riders will cut down on their use.
Anyway, I'm riding an event on sunday and the rider notes very clearly said there will be a sweeper at the back so I fully intend to litter away to ensure it is well employed.
That wouldn't make it any less dangerous
I think you're over dramatising it somewhat, dropping out of a bunch in a safe manner and waiting at the side of the road for gap to nip back and pick something up isn't going to cause a massive pile up in a sportive is it really?
I was just trying to highlight the point that your excuse/explanation appeared to be motivated only by your impression of how valuable the object is, if it was your phone you'd go back for it, but 'not littering' doesn't rank high enough up your list for you to take the (frankly minimal) risk of going back to pick it up.
So, you can either solve the problem by ranting in a slightly sanctimonious, albeit correct, fashion about what people should do, but I'm just not sure that is going to do it. Alternatively you could propose to mitigate what occurs by suggesting the practical step of getting the organisers to deal with it by using some of the entrance fee to clean up
I and others have suggester practical steps, boards with litter bags on the back, having competitors number gel wrappers, harsher penalities are all things that have been suggested, some may work some may not, and as for getting organisers to clear up, yes that's all well and good and they should, but the problem with that is that it reinforces the idea that 'someone else will do it' and ultimately is the cause of the problem in the first place and not something that should be encouraged.
Getting organisers to clean up and adding entry cost to do it is a classic case of offsetting responsibility and not dealing with the root cause.
I wonder how people would respond to say an extra tenner on the entry fee versus the option of reduced entry if you help out with a litter picking sweep afterwards*? or paying a gel subsidy at registration unless you're willing to number your gels like in the runners example earlier in the post?
*nightmare to organise I'm sure but just tabling the principle of trying to shove responsibility back at the people dropping the litter, I'm sure the hive mind can come up with better options than simply putting the price up and making the organiser do it. I genuinely believe that long term that will make it worse as it legitimises it as part of the service and 'because I've paid for it' is not a legitmate reason to drop crap everywhere (that is easily blown into hedges and missed even if there is a sweeper)
Littering is just dirty and antisocial behaviour, it should be dealt with by going after the individuals, not just accepting it and tidying up as best you can afterwards 🙁
You can't just leave it to the organiser to clean up as wrappers will blow around and the cleaning wagon might not be through for a good hour plus after you dropped it. Just don't frigging drop it in the first place.
Considering some of the riding on these events is so bad and chuck in people walking up hills in the middle of the road, then going back to pick up some rubbish wouldn't make a damn difference (if needed), provided it was done with brain engaged.
Got to say I cannot get my head around the irony here.
Vast majority of people ride to be in beautiful places, read the Singletrack magazine that is massively into wild and beautiful places, these threads are full of inspiring photos of environment... And then some people justify dropping litter. Peole are funny hey...
All events should instigate a 'litter and disqualified' rule
This is a rule in the Selkirk Marathon and pretty much the last thing they say to you at the start (several times) but still, dozens and dozens of discarded gel wrappers all over the countryside. Amazed people try to justify it.
I think you're over dramatising it somewhat, dropping out of a bunch in a safe manner and waiting at the side of the road for gap to nip back and pick something up isn't going to cause a massive pile up in a sportive is it really?
Hard to say...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-13408414
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-13408414
nice anecdotal link with no info whatsoever about how the crash occurred there 😉
I know where you're coming from but a safe exit form a bunch is not dramatic, and as long as nobody does anything stupid it's safe.
and as long as nobody does anything stupid it's safe.
I take it you've never ridden in the Etape Caledonia 😆
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Easy answer to most of it - a litter zone that keeps it on a small area and is cleared up after. I wish the local 1/2 marathon had one.
I did a Sportive in Belgium a few weeks ago and they had those "Litter Zones" - massive nets strung up by the road and you just threw all wrappers etc into them.
Loads of bins at the feed stations too.
There was no litter on the course. Mind you, Belgian roadies are much more disciplined than British ones and as a general rule, a lot more practiced at eating and drinking on the move too.
I take it you've never ridden in the Etape Caledonia
no, but have seen plenty of stupid riding elsewhere!
I just mean that its not the action of going back for litter itself that is dangerous, just if people do it in a stupid way, and that safety concerns really isn't any kind of excuse for not icking up litter if you drop it
Stupid things happen, but thats the same as any bunch riding, even dealing with a mech or puncture,
Easy answer to most of it - a litter zone that keeps it on a small area and is cleared up after. I wish the local 1/2 marathon had one.
No, the answer is bins. Stop, use bin, ride on.
Or use a pocket or bag if you don't want to stop.
Wonder if the offenders chuck their wrappers away when just out for a ride ? Or is it a result of the adrenalin fuelled race environment ? 😀
Wonder if the offenders chuck their wrappers away when just out for a ride ? Or is it a result of the adrenalin fuelled race environment ?
Not sure what it is but when some people put on lycra it's like a switch has been flipped and they seem to think that normal rules of society no longer apply. The big one is pissing in public - I've seen guys whap their cock out more or less in the middle of the street - pissing up against people's gateways and hedgerows - the kind of thing that no sane sober person would do in any normal situation.
Littering is the other one, guys (and it's almost exclusively guys) chucking gel & bar wrappers, banana skins more or less as they want. But those same people wouldn't dream of chucking a wrapper down or pissing against a wall if they were just walking round town. Weird.
🙄
just seen this on FB :
Tour o' the Borders
37 mins ·
We're hearing more about littering at Etape Caledonia...our staff who took part were appalled at the sight of riders just chucking wrappers all over the place. We would appeal to Tour O The Borders riders to please refrain from this - although we will of course be doing a litter pick afterwards, if rubbish goes into the verges and fields, inevitably some of it will be missed. It's really dangerous for wildlife and livestock, plus it will lose us the goodwill of the residents who are already tolerating their roads being closed. Any ideas how we can get our message across and stop these litter louts?
Any ideas how we can get our message across and stop these litter louts?
Raise entry fee by a fiver and openly say it's to pay for litter-zones as used in European rides due to the past behaviour of some. Peer-pressure may work and if you're in for a £40 event, £45 is the same. If you don't like that, have a think about the impact these events can have - you/I may not chuck litter but we all combine to create the event where it's often one result.
point them at this thread?
Two pronged required, stiff penalties if caught, but make it as easy as possible, ie: litter bags etc.
I can't understand the mindset of someone who thinks it is OK to drop stuff, so I'm not sure I'm best placed to offer a way to persuade them not to as clearly their mind works in a different way to mine!
Any ideas how we can get our message across and stop these litter louts?
Litter marshals armed with tasers. That would send out a strong message.
Before heading home yesterday i rode around part of the course (missing out the Loch Rannoch section and going up Schiehallion from Tummel Bridge and then missing out the Fortingall loop) and most of the litter had been cleared up. At the top of Schiehallion there was a car with some people out picking up litter from where the feed station was, so presumably they had been around elsewhere on the course doing this.
I have no idea what is was like on Sunday after a few thousand riders had passed but now it seems alright. Still the occassional wrapper but no more litter than id expect to see had there been no event on.
Well, there we go then....
My limited experience of gels is that they make a right mess. I think I've only used them once or twice when I've been given them at Sportives, but I can only assume that those who willingly go out and buy them, throw the wrappers on a ride. You wouldn't put yourself through the inconvenience otherwise. What a chore they are. Sticky hands. Sticky pockets. Any sportive organiser who gives them out for free should be obliged to walk around afterwards and pick up each and every one by hand.
Gells come out of a back pocket, and the wrapers tucked into shorts, ditto other food. Empty out shorts at the next bin/finish.
As for rules, in a strinct interpretation you can be DQ'd in a sailing race for littering, but it gets all knids of bizzare interpretations beyond that. For example some polishes are banned as they dissolve into the water, and before the days of asymetric spinakers which make leeward hois easy, it was normal to put wool ties arround the sail before hoisting, then a quick tug on the sheet and it would break them.
Saw at least three folk throwing wrappers away... one looked round to make sure no-one was on his left and then threw a gel wrapper to the verge (making it even harder to pick up). Next year I'm putting the go-pro on the bike and I'll be reporting the offenders and putting the footage on youtube.
Absolute idiots. Occasionally, a wrapper will get dropped in this kind of thing. Actually, have to give my brother some hassle because I saw him dropping a full gel getting another from his pocket! It's unfortunate but In the wet/cold, it happens and the perpetrator probably doesn't even know. The number of wrappers on the floor was huge and way more than the odd accidental drop.