[Closed] Endurance riding v 24 hour racing.

Fit some suspension .

Remove Tri bars

Go out hard and get slower. Going out slow and getting slower is just slow.

You have a pit stop every 30-50 minutes.

Carry less shit, fuel more aggressively, take it easier until the dawn when you ramp up towards the end.

Don't stop, 1 min with pit bitch to get some grub/liquid/lube chain then crack on. You only have 24 hours to get distance, not a certain distance to do. You cannot make up for a 30 minutes rest.

You learn the course, where are the good bits, where might the person in front slow you down on a descent, is it worth pushing at 85% to get past for a clear run. Which bits are not your forte, follow other people's lines to improve.

Course changes over the 24 hours, your torque will change, is it worth powering up a stupidly steep muddy hill that the rain has destroyed or take a breather walking up it then hammer the flat?

Enjoy the twentyfour12, lovely course, friendly people and great set up.

Might see you there.

Don't wear the bib shorts, it will slow down pee breaks.

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Any use? http://andrewhowett.blogspot.com/2014/01/top-tips-for-tip-top-24.html Bit old now, written in 2014, things like lights have chabged a lot since then but most of it still stands.

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Hopefully gives you an idea of what you are in for, last year's world champs, http://andrewhowett.blogspot.com/2017/06/probabilmente-la-gara-piu-difficile-che.html and 2016 Nationals http://andrewhowett.blogspot.com/2016/12/exposure-lightsno-fuss-events.html

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Not sure how it compares to stage racing or things like the TD as I've not done them but fitness wise i guess you'll be fine. Any chance to do a 12hr before your 24? Is D2D on next year?

Based on your palmares I would say you’ll have no problems, you’ll certainly have the fitness and more importantly the mental fortitude.

A good pit crew will make a huge difference, they keep you motivated, cut down your stationary time and it’s more mates to have beers with at the end. Tell them how you want to be motivated if you get tired, hurt, low etc.

Think about your pit set up, T5 plus gazebo plus generator is the perfect combo

depending on the course you could be doing a lot of climbing, go easy on the steep sections as it’s easy to go out too hard and cramp a lot later on.

have a few changes of cycling gear

put warm gear on in the night before you get cold, low temperatures coupled with fatigue around dawn is a bad combination.

Thanks all of you  - it all makes sense (though I had to look up what a T5 was).

Any other hints about pacing? I am concerned that the pack will start as if it is a 2 hour race and I'll get lapped/dropped. My pace is more developed to steady all day effort rather than punchy sharp climbs when jockeying for position and I tend to let folk pass me rather than have them gnawing at my heels.

am concerned that the pack will start as if it is a 2 hour race and I’ll get lapped/dropped.

Youll catch and pass them while they bonk/sleep.

OK - thats all the riding strategy dealt with. Can I stop for  a wee halfway round or is that bad form and you have to go in some Portaloo in the pit area?

As you can get resupply every 30 mins I'm planning to use an ultra runners vest with chest floppy bottles/flasks and carry snacks on a top tube bag - good idea or is there an established way of carrying food and drink?

What's wrong with a bottle cage?

Maybe add some intensity sessions to your training. Might help recovery from short, sharp climb efforts.

"Youll catch and pass them while they bonk/sleep."

You'll catch some. You won't catch those there to fight for position.

I’m planning to use an ultra runners vest with chest floppy bottles/flasks

Whats wrong with a camel back? I used a camel back with energy powder and a bottle with plain water, many, many years ago....

Nothing wrong with a camelbak - I was trying to keep the weight down and I was thinking 2 litres would be too much to carry around (the soft flasks are 500 ml) and can be changed out each time by the crew in seconds.

I'm not really wise on pit strategy at all - working out is it best to resupply every lap or every other lap?

Swapping a camelbak every other lap may work - advice is welcome here!

Certainly I will be on a weak mix of High5 for the whole race, getting slightly stronger as the race concludes.

Hi Trail Rat - it will be my first 24, so not even planning to finish at the sharp end of things.....

Example feed strategy: Ride 2 laps with two bottles in the cage and gels/bars in the pocket.

in for a quick sandwich and a drink from your pit bitches after that. Stop for no more than 3-4 minutes to recsupply

every 4/5 laps in for a pot noodle, sandwich or  soup and a cuppa   That is made ready by your team for when you get in (they should know your lap pace by now)

eat and chill for 15 whilst they clean your bike and refill your bottles then off you go.

Hiring a generator makes all the above very easy

Just stick a bottle in a cage on your bike unless it's really hot, going by the last 2 there it won't be.

Pick up food in the pits as you ride past and maybe a gel or bar in a jersey pocket just in case.

It'll start a bit like an XC race but slightly slower, don't get team riders mixed up with soloists.

Just aim to maintain your pace and if necessary have the ability to bang a couple of fast laps in at some point to catch the person in front or drop the one behind, if you want to that is.

As for having a wee, anywhere will do when the need take a you.

Get a good, reliable pit worker who will stay awake and be ready to prep what you want for the next stop, being good at washing drivetrains and lubing them will also come in handy.

Just to contradict some of the advice above, a lot of people will go out too hard and then go pop in the middle of the night.  But starting reasonably steady and keeping that pace is a tricky one to master.  As a very basic rule of thumb, your normal effort but one gear easier could be useful to you.

Biggest tip is just to keep going.  Especially once the morning comes around.  Mental fortitude as much as physical.

A pit crew who can help with clothing as well as fuel is important, i.e. knowing which layers you might need to change (this sways me towards bottles over camelbaks or vests).   Also sometimes you when you come round for a lap you can tell them what you want to have the next time you come around.

As above some properly food every few laps is a good idea, but don't stop for long. It's way too easy to get off the bike and get comfy sitting down. Stay on the bike!

It’s way too easy to get off the bike and get comfy sitting down.

Very much this!

just passing on what i wish id been told before my first 24.

not having been held up in the first lap bunching at the singletrack/technical sections  would have gained me many more places than just even pacing.

If you’re after a placing then go as hard as you dare for the first few laps, you’re not going to get quicker as the day goes on, only slower..

swap bottles on the fly for the first few laps and start with food in your jersey pockets to see you through..

combine food and bottle stops with pee stops behind your pits, saves stopping twice if required.

eat whatever you fancy, I swear by pizza !!

Get a great pit crew who will kick you back out when required and give you results etc

dont sit down in your pits and keep moving forward no matter how slow you feel you are going..

good luck, with your credentials a good result is well within reach..

My best result was a couple of years ago at MM24.

I had no support crew, so elected to stop for five minutes every two hours. I worked out the pace I needed to achieve and rode my practice lap on the Friday at that pace. It was SLOW!! but I needed to keep that pace throughout.

It worked. Plus I got chatting to a chap about 45 minutes from the end, who I realised I was neck and neck with.... I put on a spurt and ended up getting an extra lap in.

Last year's was a disaster as I went for a hip pack and didn't get hydrated properly. Went down badly at six hours with dehydration. Took another six to get my legs out of cramp and back on bike. => crap result!!

Get your hydration right!!

Good luck!

Obv rookie question.... apart from asking a helper to feed and water me, don't most folk go through an event like this without needing a mechanic on standby? My Tallboy is going to be 9 years old by the event and I just fit it out with XT kit and it keeps going through all my adventures - is an event like this designed to tear your equipment apart (I have had issues in wet Morzine rides so I know it does happen).

I wear Endura kit and it seems to like me as I can live in it for 50+ hours with the addition/ removal of a rain layer and I can usually dress myself (adult now) - not that I want to do this without a buddie or two to help out, but is it absolutely needed?

Also, if there is a big mechanical, can I just jump onto a replacement bike for a lap or two?

Thanks.

My best results were achieved with no support crew.

My top tip. Get up in the morning and dismantle your tent- then if you want to sleep you have to stop and put the tent up - continuing to ride is the better option then

If your not going to use support be sure to have all your stuff organised and laid out.

Re the bike. If you start the event with the bike in good fettle and not worn out then with the exception of if it's seriously muddy like mayhem or puffer you should be grand.

If it's claggy muddy a pit crew set up with a bike was is invaluable to keeping you going

Done a few 24 solo and like others have said with your palmares you’ll be fine. In my experience pacing is the hardest bit. Don’t forget that it’s a multi team race so the guys that set off fast will be mostly team riders. Start at the back and go steady. You’ll find a pace and then just keep fuelling. Stay aerobic ( as opposed to anaerobic) ie. as soon as you feel your legs back off. I managed to keep going steady at Mayhem a couple of years ago and at 3am I was 10th overall!!!. Stopping for longer than 15-20mins makes it hard to get going again. Best advice I got from a fellow racer was to eat some proper food. Too many gels and sweets will end with stomach cramps and exploding arse and remember to enjoy it. Banter / Chat with other riders will make the nights pass and keep your spirits up and enjoy it. As G says “ It’s just riding bikes”.

Regarding mechanical's I take 2 bikes, one an XC 29er FS and the other a 29er XC HT,  the position is nigh on identical, I use the same pedals, gearing, grips, saddles and tyres on each so a swap is easy. I also have light and Garmin mounts on them both so at most it takes a minute to swap.

At the the Euros in June my mate was pitting, it was a crash course in essential mechanics, in other words clean and lube chain and that'll do, and that was a seriously muddy race. He got rather adept at jet washing the clogging parts, a quick wipe down and a lube (all of the bike) in no time at all.

I only changed kit at that event due to the weather and my bibs were full of mud, other than that I did at least 10 hours in one set in the end.

The courses are generally designed to be rideable throughout the course of the event, no matter the level of fatigue (other than total collapse) so they're not bike wreckers. Fort William in October will be a bit different as it's a tad rockier, but it was ok at Ten Under. In fact I had the same pads in that I used in that event in April as I did at the Euros in June, and they're still fine now, so that gives you and idea of what the courses are like - either that or I don't brake much.

You'll be use to the mental side of things and that's generally where things fall down, sometimes completely unexpected and unprecedented, but that's 24hr racing for you.

Eat what you like, get it sorted well before hand and have a variety of stuff with you, again probably teaching you to suck eggs there.

OK – thats all the riding strategy dealt with. Can I stop for  a wee halfway round or is that bad form and you have to go in some Portaloo in the pit area?

You can do whatever you want within the rules. Pacing depends on your aim. The really quick guys often go off fast then try to maintain it for as long as possible. If you're a human being, start gently and don't panic, it's a very long ride. At 24/12 though, it's worth positioning yourself near the front at the start. It took me about two or three laps to catch up with a friend who started 30 metres or so in front of me simply because of early lap congestion.

On fuelling, I used to have a bottle per lap, if you use gels, rubber-band a couple to each bottle so it's an easy, no-brain swipe. Try nutrition strategies in advance, everyone's different and some people tolerate different things better than others, but I'd avoid high fat stuff. Sometimes you just feel like something, so it's worth having options to hand. Don't dally in the pits, it takes a lot of riding to make up five minutes worth of faff.

It's easiest having a pit-crew, but if you're methodical you can manage without. You just need to be more organised about having bottles and food accessible and a spare bike securely stored, but accessible. If rain's forecast, think about alternative wheels or a mud bike rather than wasting hours changing tyres mid-race.

Also at 24/12, if you're soloing the 24, there's a weird bit at midnight when all the 12-hour soloists kind of disappear and you find yourself in a sort of anti-climactic hole. I used to neck a very small beer at midnight as a sort of marker and because the taste is nice.

You'll also maybe have at least one bad lap when everything feels awful, but if you keep eating and drinking and pedalling, you generally push through it and come out the other side. Talking to people keeps my head attached. Pacing is as pacing does. Try not to race people. Don't go anaerobic, because you won't recover, be amused by knowing the lines much better than team riders.

You'll have forgotten all this by next year anyway... 24/12 is a really nice event. But it's so far away from me that it always felt like a major expedition. Enjoy 🙂

Lots of good advice here, key for me is being organised and planned. Have everything set up and ready (bottles, food, kit etc). Also, if you have a pit crew having your anticipated plan/pace/feeding schedule clearly written down is useful so they know exactly what you might need/want and when.

What BWD said, I'd add waterproof boxes for keeping your stuff in too.

Don't worry about the bike, mine is older - last year was my best result (4th in torchbearer thanks to everyone else giving up) and the bits that died are the bits that would die on any bike hub deep in mud.

This year and in 2016 I didn't need to do anything to the bike apart from lube the chain (slight lie, rear shock needed a lube, but that's neglect and not the race).

Ride light, no need for a big camelback - if you leave the course you have to rejoin where you left, use that. Had a mate run diagonally across the place to get a spare mech and then back, took 5 mins instead of 30 running around the course.

I'll pm my "race" reports link to you, full of gubbins from my first two serious (ish) attempts at twentyfour12.

Thanks for all the tips - been riding the bike here is Fernie and have 4 days left till its back to the slippy south downs and some winter miles getting ready for this and the HT550 in late May.

Final training for each could be riding to the startline?