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C2W window has come up. Have the usual limit of £1k but I might be able to top up from the right shop.
I have another child on the way with 2 already at home (6+7). We are a one car family and frankly there is no need for us to have a second car. But being able to take a child or two somewhere on the back of a cargo bike might be quite helpful, I've never scratched that itch and I sort of fancy it now
Plus an electric version would mean it's actually more practical for day to day use (easier on the legs, further distances, more weight). I spotted the Tern GSD. Interesting option, well over the limit but let's ignore that challenge for now...
It's small, practical, folds for ease of sticking in my garage but has a huge benefit in terms of family life - I can head somewhere with a child, then get picked up in the car and be able to lob the bike in the boot. I have a brompton and having this option is dead handy, I also use the Brompton with a child on an IT chair but it's hard now as they're a bit bigger and heavier
Any thoughts, pearls of wisdom, inspiring stories, recommendations etc?
I got mine last year and have loved it so far.
Yuba Spicy Curry Bosch with the rear deck and boards and monkey bars.
Brilliant to ride, commute 20 miles each day on it after dropping mini me off at nursery on the way. And he LOVES it.
I have the Tern GSD - regularly take 2 kids on it to school (5 and 3) and then commute 10 miles on from there. I have the running boards, child seat and cushion as well as the panniers.
It's amazing, loads of fun and negates the need for a 2nd car. Its used all the time from popping to the shops, going to the pub (and taking mates home on it afterwards), going to the beach (with kids) etc. Another advantage is, because its so adjustable my wife rides it as well.
I like the look of the Urban Arrow but that won’t fold up to go in the car.
I forget the name of it but there’s a C2W-like scheme for electric cargo bikes with a much higher limit. May be worth looking at if your company can be flexible.
benp - where are you?
If you're in Scotland there is a grant available for e-cargo bikes however I'm not sure what the qualifying criteria is, bencooper would be your man to ask (Kinetics but he's busy at the cycle show just now).
I'm in london, quite far from Scotland!
Innit_gareth - what size are you? Do you find it cramped? Read a review that the front can be a little skittish, any thoughts? Also, have you been able to get it in a car?
Any views on electrifying a big dummy?
Someone on Steel is Real FB group seems to have positive views of his Big Dummy Bafang conversion.
If you have $5k to spend (plus importing it) there is the Big Easy rated to 200kg plus rider.
I'd have a GSD in a heartbeat. With additional battery. If money was water.
Have a look at the Rad bikes. They seem reasonably priced but not looked in depth at the spec.
https://radpowerbikes.eu/products/radrhino-electric-fat-bike?variant=19529894723677
Failing that its Reise Muller. The City looks good but again not looked at spec.
I have an electrified (bafang bbs002 ) mounted to a Kona sutra frame that has an xtracycle free radical.
It won't inspire you for owt as it's ugly as sin but super practical. I'd electrify a big dummy if I had the pennies but the bitsa above stands me less than 1k thanks to lots of used parts and em3ev
Check out this earlier similar thread?
Any thoughts, pearls of wisdom, inspiring stories, recommendations etc?
Yes, maybe, here's my story so far:
Some years ago I found myself with a little money (about 1k). To throw at a cargo bike. The idea appealed as I wanted to replace the car for majority of local runs, groceries etc, carry friends to and from town, and to maybe also do some mid-distance camping/touring (<100k) without worrying too much about packing lightweight (what was I thinking?)
Found me a cargo bike shop near Brizzle, and I was recommended a Gazelle Cabby, but it was 1. Above budget and 2. Looked a bit 'weird' (me coming from a mostly road-bike and especially MTB background, that and I'd already dreamed about owning a Surly Big Dummy sooooo...)
So instead I purchased the full Xtracycle Freeradical kit, luggage bags, side extensions, everything - with the intention of converting my super-reliable M-Trax 150 rigid 26er into a Big Dummy-a-like.
Waited it out over a painfully-slow two weeks for a sunny and free day on which to enjoy the build/conversion. Then arranged to borrow a friend's lawn for the day. Laid all parts out, instructions, tools, tubs for parts, camera for blogging the build, cool beer, etc - all ready to spend priceless hours lovingly transforming my immacultely cleaned Raleigh, and to cargo-bike my life into happiness. And then ... discovered that the rear dropouts were incompatible with the Xtracycle kit.
I threw a few freddies around the garden and may have kicked some boxes/bags/tools up in the air. Can't remember everything, it all went a bit strange and I swear the sky changed colour...
Anyway, next day free I returned to the shop and luckily exchanged the Freeradical kit for an ex-demo Kona Ute with the big long cargo bag for the rear rack. And in gunmetal grey, much like my abandoned M-trax project. I was obviously still keen on the looks. And again I didn't question why. i was buying is type of setup, except that it looked a little like the. Big Dummy, and felt comfortable test ridden around the yard. Just like a mountain bike.
Back home it turns out my new Ute was super-comfortable, and looked NICE. Especially with some later upgrades - ie new 29er Schwalbe Big Apple tyres in brown, cork grips, and a Brooks B67 with pre-aged leather saddle. It looked amazing. And then I started using it for the grocery shop. First run was a heavy load, about four bags of groceries with some milk. And frozen stuff. The bike felt flexy. Couldn't ignore it. Pronounced, almost alarming flex, especially when climbing out of saddle. Also the load-position was HIGH. Felt unstable. Of course, it's a 29er, with the luggage rack and deck positioned above the rear wheel. I tried a few more times. I didn't like it. I liked it enough as a cruiser, but as a 'cargo-bike', IMO it failed it's primary reason for existing.
I got lucky soon after selling the Ute by bagging a used Batavus Personal from classifieds, a bike I wouldn't normally have chosen, but which actually solved all of the Ute issues and (I discovered) gave many more benefits in a 'fit for purpose' style. ie near zero mainetenance, weatherproof and simple hub gears, hub dynamo lights, onboard locks x 2 with key that remains in situ when unlocked. Low centre of gravity, lower rack/load height, high swept wide bars for control and visibility in traffic, massive steel kickstand, roller-brakes, etc. Dutch designers know about carrying shit on bikes, it seems. It was virtually bomb-proof and winched massive loads without sniffing. I grew quickly to love this mad looking tank of a bike and abused it for 7-8years in all weathers. It kept on going
It finally succumbed to damp/outdoors storage, and I also have an injury, so it currently sits in bits in the shed awaiting de-rusting, new chain, chainset and replacement brakes. Still goes though. I miss using it. The car gets too much local use now, which is boring, and I'm growing in girth. Reminds me - Cargo bikes are ace. They keep you fit, they keep you involved in life, and they give you some mindful 'active downtime' that isn't really possible in the car 'bubble'.
Talking about Dutch bikes, reminds me of the Gazelle Cabby that I was originally recommended. I've carried cargo via bicycle using various trailers (large Carry Freedom, buggy trailers etc) and they worked to a degree, but felt cumbersome, and the Batavus Personal works because it is so heavy and large loads don't affect handling so much, but ... really have a think about what type of cargo you want to be carrying, and why you want it (?) to be 'behind you', as bakfiets make a lot of sense for cargo, especially for kids. As do smaller wheels, especially for carrying high weights down low.
In short - if possible go and try/test stuff. Lots. Don't get hung up on looks/MTB-style over weirder looking bikes that may have raw, durable, comfortable, adaptable functionality and practicality. Identify and list your carrying and terrain requirements as specifically as possible, because 'cargo-bike' is so much more than 'chuck stuff on back of bike', especially if using as a regular car-replacement. I've certainly had my prior 'cargo bike' = MTB with big rack' views exploded by using a full bells and whistles Dutch utility bike (but did have to modify gear-ratios for hills) and would also look at a bakfiets setup in future. Urban Arrow looks interesting but have yet to ride any type of bakfiets config.
Thats my long and unfocused ramble done. If you got this far and there are any pearls in there, let me know!🙂
The Tern GSD looks so much fun. Just want one.
I saw a claim the other day that BTW limit had gone up to 2k. Don’t know if it was 1 scheme or 1 company but worth checking.
I'm 6'4'' with about a 34 inseam. Tern GSD fits fine. Partner is 5'7'' - fine for her as well. Don't find the front end skittish and I've been down some fairly fast hills on it. Occasionally if cycling no handed the handlebars resonate a bit but the lightest touch on them sorts this.
It's a comfortable upright riding position - I ride it 10 miles each way to work and I go the same speed as other ebikes, probably with a similar level of comfort.
Fyi Kona Ute's are not typical of that design of "cargo bike"
They were notoriously flexy and only got worse when loaded.
But that is one reason I chose a sutra for my conversion over anything lighter weight. Doesn't flinch even with a load on and me +wife on pillion.
Bakfiets? Never ridden one but I really like the design. Keeps the weight low and when carrying kids they are in front of you
https://electricbikes.org.uk/bikes-for-sale/cargo/electric-bakfiets/
Another benefit of bakfiets is cutting down on lashing and bagging times:
Or keeping what/whoever out of the weather:
*edit - trailrat,I just read your post on free radical/big dummy - seems we cross-posted! Now my post could possibly look snippy about the longtail design, but please know it certainly wasn't in response to your post, or towards carrying stuff/passengers behind in general. Yuba Spicy Curry and Xtracycle Edgerunner (do they still make that?) both look impressively fit for purpose too, especially with the smaller rear-wheels.
fwiw id have a bakfiets if they were compatible with the anti motorcycle gates round here.
Yuba Spicy Curry and Xtracycle Edgerunner (do they still make that?) both look impressively fit for purpose too, especially with the smaller rear-wheels.
Agreed. The Yuba is massively sturdy and stiff when loaded. I’ve had the front basket full of Milk/Beers and tins from a supermarket shop. And a 3 year old, his bike and my other half sat on the back. It felt stable and totally fine to ride, no flexing or anything negative really.
I'm flip flopping between various things. The challenge I have is storage in my garage. Really struggle with space. Have taken my rarely ridden El Mariachi apart so I have a bit more space. I like the idea of being able to store the GSD on its end, would create loads of room. Definitely don't have any room for the bikes with a big bucket type arrangement, even though I appreciate their use. I really don't want to keep a bike outside either
I do like the idea of an electrified big dummy though, don't know why!
Forgot to say, a dropped top-tube or better still full step-thru makes a massive improvement to a cargo/utility setup.
do like the idea of an electrified big dummy though, don’t know why!
I'd guess because it looks just like an mtb? Or you want to take your cargo offroad?
Among the various types with a proper front box (three-wheeler) or front platform (two-wheeler), the best regarded and by far the most popular (around these parts) are the Bullitt by Harry versus Larry, and the various lengths of Mini/Mini-max/Cargo by Omnium (electric version rumoured).
Bullitt breakages are not entirely unknown among messengers, but I see shed-loads of them and most look like they have survived a real hammering.
I'm hoping to try the electrified version of the Benno Boost. Similar in overall concept to the Tern GSD, but with larger 24-inch wheels. I don't *think* they have a UK importer at the moment, but it's one to be aware of.
[edit] thumbnail lacks the front rack, surfboard rack, and other accessories. It's a bit more useful than it looks in that pic [/edit]
Realistically, it would do almost everything I need without the down-sides of being "over-biked" by a huge bakfiets (and if I need a bakfiets they can be rented locally and even borrowed free from our equivalent of B&Q).
https://www.bennobikes.com/e-bikes/boost/
Much as I'm resistant to the general idea of slapping an electric motor on a "normal" bike (sort of defeats the whole point of humankind's most efficient machine to date), I'm all up for getting an electric cargo bike at some point. If it can keep me mobile once my knees have given up, and can allow me to avoid ever having to own a car again, I'll be happy as Larry.
@malvernrider - yes, you're probably right. Just looks like a real machine, but I reckon a GSD would be more use
Picked i'll some food shopping and a takeaway on the topeak milk crate on the back of my Arkose. Step through would definitely be easier.
I've ridden a bakfiets and similar in the Netherlands and they work perfectly there. Unfortunately over here we have far more gradient and they are awful both up and down hills.
Tbh that Tern looks superbly designed for the Uk
OP - something new from Surly, looks like/is an electrified Big Dummy?
No idea on UK prices or availability. $5k in the US. Get yr ogle goggles on 🙂:
I’ve added bafang motor to my surly big dummy and it’s brilisnt. Regularly use it to carry 3 kids in the back in the hooptie.
Use it for shopping and commuting to when the weather is rubbish
Let me know if you want any more info or photos
That big easy looks decent! Like a production electric big dummy. It's long though huh? Looks fun but will be really difficult to store in my garage. Does anyone carry one on a car? Too long for a tow bar rack I'm guessing. Maybe also for a tow bar rack
For any GSD owner, how do you charge the battery? Does the whole bike have to be near a plug or can you take the battery off and plug it into a charger?
I really want a Surly Big Easy!
Benp - from the Bosch video on Youtube it would appear that you can charge either on the bike or off of it, see the plugholes at 0:35 and 0:42 -
GSD batteries can be charged on or off the bike.
But they are a “slight” faff to get off due to where they are mounted, not as easy as a frame mounted battery like the Yuba or Extracycle, but still designed to be removed daily if required.
The newer model with the fancy CVT hub gear has the Performance Line CX motor rather than the standard Performance Line. Worth noting when deciding which model is suitable. The CX is more powerful by a fair bit, could be important if you carry a lot and live somewhere hilly.
GSD is a serious front runner. Been watching a couple of vids and it ticks so many boxes
Big Easy review on a pre-production bike.
Interesting that it has a dual battery mounting and wiring as standard but the second battery is an extra.
Lots of el-cargo bikes in Stockholm...
I have seen people using some of these ( https://www.cargobike.se/produkt-kategori/ladcyklar/) to drive kids to school and the two wheel version ( https://www.cargobike.se/produkt/cargobike-long-lite-electric/)is popular too.
However, these ( https://livelo.se/livelo-shop/) seem to be a really good compromise for the city. The people I have spoken to really rate them. They are a little more money than you may want to spend though.
3 wheeler would need way to much space. 2 wheel with bucket in front does look good, and better for the 3rd child that is due imminently. I could fit one in the garage if I sold my motorbike, that is rarely ridden, but I'm clinging onto that thing for dear life. If it goes I know that I won't get one again for ages...!
Ironically an electric cargo bike is the same price as a motorbike...!
I know it's probably boring to mention, but that Surly Big Easy promo pic:
- One weedy looking side-stand?
- Interesting leg-over provision (or not)?
- Just a tad rear-heavy?
One is easily solved, the other two not so much. I'm guessing that for daily urban cargo-lugging this design could get old very quickly compared to more practical cargo-specific configurations. But it does seem to partly-fill the MTB/offroad lugging-stuff niche, which in itself is a thumbs-up 👍🏼 Also, it could serve as a 'gateway bike' for mtbers to get into urban car-replacement? Thinking about it, I'd love to have one as a mid-range green-lane/back-roads touring/camping setup. Maybe with lockout front sus? Urban Arrow or GSD for urban adventures. Imagine justifying two e-cargo-bikes?
Yours,
Mr Practical
just bought a Kona e-ute for one of our sites for the team to get around on instead of taking a truck. due for delivery soon. will report back. also considered the tern gsd but got a good deal on the Kona.
We've got an Xtracycle Edgerunner that I bought from someone on here actually. It had been upgraded from a 3x9 drivetrain to an Alfine 11 when we bought it and we have since added a simple front wheel motor kit (think chinese ebay variety).
It rides really nicely (like a normal bike) and I often take my twin 4 year olds on it with various luggage and it continues to ride really well. It's got the smaller rear wheel so that the CoG is kept nice and low. I am pretty sure that they only came in one size, so it's a bit of a one size fits all arrangement but ours seems to work ok for myself (6') and my wife (5'9") with an adjustable saddle height. I think that if I rode it more regularly for longer trips then I'd feel the need to work on the setup, but for short out and about local runs it's excellent.
We have one car and the Cargo bike and it's brilliant. I can only imagine that the newer ones with a decent powered drivetrain system are even better. From a practicality purpose, a decent double leg stand is a must as that beast is weighty once it's loaded up! Think mine is 70+kg with the kids on it.
This may be overkill, but I cant help wanting one...maybe putting a teardrop habitation shell on the rear and turning it into a camper?...
I built up a dummy with a Bafang mid drive, it's great! We went down to 1 car with the dummy as the replacement. Largely being used for lugging sprogs about.
The centre mounted kickstand is really useful, makes loading up much easier, eg children can climb on without the bike tipping over.
Having the form of a normal bike is useful if you want to use any bike paths with anti motorbike gates.
I have a Riese & Muller Load 60, with a front bay arrangement and child seats. I think it’s unique feature in the cargo ebike world is the front a rear suspension which means you can keep your pace up over speed bumps or ride through woods at a decent pace without sprogs complaining. It’s a super smooth ride, and conversations are easy when kids are in front. On the flip side we’ve been caught out by motorbike barriers - the length was a problem.
It’s getting to be a bit of a squeeze for for a 7 & 5 year old as they sit side by side, presumably that wouldn’t be a problem for inline long tail bikes like the Surly or Tern. Possibly the new Load 75 which can take three small kids might possibly help with that. It’s useful having a something the kids can climb into themselves, as the cargo area is relatively low down, two-legged kick stand is very stable when parked. You can’t typically get it into a car, although i’ve seen a pic of a partly dismantled one in an estate. There’s also this vid of someone carrying one on a modified roof carrier.
In terms of car replacement and how much your can carry, i’ve carried adults, three kids, A few bags of cement, and an awkward 4ft farm jack without much of a problem.
Go for a test ride on a few, and bring kids if that’s the aim. They might make your decision for you. I was completely won over by the suspension, ride and stability.
There’s a big place right by London bridge station where you test anything out.
We had a go on one of Ben Coopers GSD's at the show in Glasgow a couple of weeks ago. It was brilliant, so much fun with our 4 yr old on the back.
Unfortunately, we couldn't replace a car with one in the foreseeable, but we are totally sold on the concept for local transport.
Unfortunately I can't find anywhere to test ride the GSD. There are two options, the S10 and the S00, the latter is the newer, upgraded (and more expensive) version and even fewer places have them.
Pretty much sold on a GSD now, there's a shop in London that has some in stock so I can sit on one, just can't take it for a ride annoyingly.
Hi Benp1, Evans Cycles at St Pancras/KC recently (end of March) had a yellow and a blue S10 in the showroom and where doing test rides. I had a go, awesome bit of kit.
Pic
https://photos.app.goo.gl/jSRayAJerAM2S8558
Ps are you planning to sell your IT Chair?
Sorry, missed this. Thanks for the heads up, that's slightly closer so worth a look I suppose
Not planning on selling the IT chair yet, I have a 3rd child due imminently so it'll get more use in a couple of years (hopefully less) when the new little one can fit on it
Ok ta for letting me know about he IT chair.
Good luck with the GSD testing.
Bit of an update. I bought a Big Dummy about 2 months ago, it was a good price/spec and I'm really pleased with it. It's not electric and you definitely know about it when trying to get up hills with luggage/kids on the it
I've used it loads for local trips. Has carried 1 or 2 kids, shopping, parcels and a bike in different configurations. It's saved lots of short car trips and has been really convenient for going places because I can stop/park right outside.
I still like the idea of the GSD but it's expensive so will wait to see what happens with the C2W limit. I'm also now concerned it might be a bit small... I can get two on back of the bike comfortably, I have 3 kids so this will fit them on. I think the GSD is more of a midtail than a longtail?
Also considering electrifying the Big Dummy but not sure what spec yet. Toing and froing between different options. Not fussed about ultimate speed, I'm happy to stay under the 15.5mph limit, but would like enough power to be able to get up hills with a heavy load. It's a real killer on leg power alone
A little bit of 'Lazarus' from me following a chat with Tony the bike man at my local cykelverkstad.
Popped in last night to collect a wheel and my bike after its service and saw that he had been shopping for something a little different then the Cologna road/cross bikes they normally carry in stock:
I can't remember the make, but it's German, huge and amazingly well made. It also has front suspension that makes most modern cars look amateur:
All up carry weight on this is 240kg apparently, with 40 of that being the bike itself. Electric assist by a latest generation Bosch 250w motor and enough power for 65-80km, with a choice of manual gear changes (less range than a Rohlhoff), or constant cadence and assistance.
It leans. That freaked me out. It actually turns quickly and sharply and leans in. Throw on a crew carry thing (it has Thule rails on the side of the load bed) and you can take two kids in the same pod that you normally use for pushing them in _and_ shopping.
I love the other local brand (Livelo) because it is quite a compact system, but this turns way better.
Cool. Butchers and bicycles have a similar concept.
That looks ace!