[Closed] Electric bikes need to be stopped.

stop being pedantic it's still an electric motor, why won't they let me ride an Enduro event on one.

Because it's in the rules. Same reason you can't use an F1 car in a clio cup race. (Or, more relevantly, a full aero tri bike in a uci sanctioned TT)

Same as the rules that allow pedelec bikes but not electric motorbikes, really.

Pretty sure most of the pro peloton have 2 electric motors on their bikes, designed to make their ride easier/faster should they've banned too?

As i stated it's a different sport, so stop kidding yourselves you are operating in the same one.

If it is the same one it is as bad as mechanical doping!.

I think ebikes are a great thing as long as they allow an elderly to wander around, or let people commuting and carrying kids without much effort. This can save a lot of traffic and will help to develop bike paths network.

But they shouldn't be allowed on bike paths over a certain power.

As i stated it's a different sport

But they shouldn't be allowed on bike paths over a certain power.

They aren't. Anything more than 250w is a motorbike, and subject to the same rules as their petrol brethren

Plus, don't some different sports use the same playing surfaces?

They aren't. Anything more than 250w is a motorbike, and subject to the same rules as their petrol brethren

In The Netherlands (a real pedallers paradise) also petrol motorbikes can use bike paths, as long as they don't go faster than 25km/h (=15miles/hour).

Same rule applies here. To be an ebike, the motor must cut out totally at 25kph. They can go faster than that, but only under the riders power/gravity

Petrol mopeds can't use cycle paths though, as they operate without being pedaled

[quote=5thElefant ]It's only a sport if you're competing.

Straaaaava

As i stated it's a different sport, so stop kidding yourselves you are operating in the same one.

*devils advocate*

So why does the front page of Singletrack have e-bike stories then?

[i]Should[/i] it?

"because you obviously don't understand that they're a threat to MTB full stop for normal users."

Utter nonsense. And I'll explain why: Off-road capable bicycles are available for £300 or less, quite 'affordable' to most people. But the countryside isn't full of people on off-road bikes, tearing about everywhere. Roads in some remote places have very little if any traffic, and are perfect for ragging a sportscar on, but you don't get more than the occasional **** doing so. The wilderness areas that people are concerned about, are mostly some distance from metropolitan areas, therefore the kind of folk who'd prefer/need an e-bike won't be able to access them easily. And in my experience, the cycle lanes etc in London, which has far more cyclists per square miles than anywhere else in the country, aren't terrorised by e-bikes. Indeed, full powered petrol motorcycles often share space with pedal cycles, without to many issues. Then there's the cost; e-bikes will always cost quite a bit, so won't be owned by anywhere near the number of people who own pedal bikes. I do think we may see some issues in the near future, but nowhere near the extent some doom mongers are claiming!

"In The Netherlands (a real pedallers paradise) also petrol motorbikes can use bike paths, as long as they don't go faster than 25km/h (=15miles/hour)."

Yeah, but they are really, really embarrasing to be seen out on. 😆

just place my order.........

All Ebikes are not mountain bikes any more than all cars are landrovers. Most ebikes will never go off road like most cars never do.

An ebike is not the same as an electric motor bike and arguing one looks a lot like the other so it's the same is ridiculous.

It's more likely to get "us" banned by riding cheeky* than by riding an e bike where it's allowed, by damaging trails/land/property we're not supposed to be on in the first instance.

Off road you're riding legaly (a) where horses are allowed, they make a lot of mess and I'd wager more than an e bike. (B) private land with permission, who is allowed to ride what (i.e. no horses on cycle trails) is then down to the land owner regardless of the legal status of that vehicle**.

If it's neither of the above you shouldn't be there, either the land owner turns a blind eye - say off piste trails on FC land - in which case why should you be ignored and someone else not? Or you're riding somewhere the land owner doesn't want you and I expect ebikes will be treated the same.

Suggesting we should blanket ban ebikes because you don't like [being beaten up hill by] them is daft. If you're worried about inappropriate trail usage I'd suggest you start by proactively working to ensure cyclists do not deviate from bridalways, roads or designated cycle routes. Alternatively stop worrying about it and get on with your life or better still campaign for updated access rights for all (including if you're really that bothered about it) specific restrictions on ebike access, though I'd suggest a decent fit for purpose right of way network would dilute any impact sufficiently you'll never notice the damage and get improved access to boot.

*cheeky isn't really, it's genuinely not allowed but we're (largely) happy doing it anyway because it suits us, it's certainly more illegal than riding an e bike on a bridleway.

**i imagine if ownership of the vehicle were illegal this might not be true but on private land the owner is welcome to drive tanks along cycle trails if they see fit.

That looks fun ton 🙂

My suspicion is that motors will end up being a bigger thing on roadies than MTBs. The ideas of an extra 40-100W for minimal extra weight is pretty tempting I think. That new Cippolini with a hidden motor - how much does that weigh?

[I've test ridden a lecky MTB - good fun up obviously but too heavy coming down - ruined it for me]

[quote=dangeourbrain ]An ebike is not the same as an electric motor bike and arguing one looks a lot like the other so it's the same is ridiculous.

I'm not sure anybody is arguing that. The potential issue though is that if the average person or ranger is unable to tell the difference and e-motorbikes are ragging about the place causing problems, then e-bikes are going to be blamed for causing problems. That does have potential knock on effects for unpowered bicycles.

I'm certainly not suggesting e-bikes should be banned, and in general I think they're a good thing, but this isn't a black and white issue - it is possible to think that and still recognise that e-motorbikes which look like e-bikes (and are used by their owners as if they are) could cause access issues.

That looks fun ton

i was jesting simon, forgot to add this...... 😉

 

[quote=reggiegasket ]My suspicion is that motors will end up being a bigger thing on roadies than MTBs. The ideas of an extra 40-100W for minimal extra weight is pretty tempting I think.

I can see that being a very tempting way to get to ride with a faster club group than you might otherwise manage - or to otherwise allow a slower rider to keep up with faster mates. I'm sure such bikes will also get used in sportives (I'm guessing they are already) which is a pain, but I'm struggling to get too worked up about it - the only people the riders are cheating is themselves.

How many people responding have actually ridden an ebike?

I have just got back in from a ride around Afan, about 25 miles, and can assure you that I am a little tired and feel as though I have been riding a bike off road.

It just increases your climbing speed dependant on the level of assist you choose.
Climbing is still quite a challenge , but in a different manner.

i had a go on one. nice bloke, nice bike.. still wave and shout cheater in a jokey fashion.. it's not all handbags!

and i know the health benefits are not non-existent, but also not the same.

without trying to load the question: how much could you have managed on a normal bike? whens the last time you tried?

Suggesting we should blanket ban ebikes because you don't like [being beaten up hill by] them is daft.

thats not it.

where i ride several of the trails 'up' are also the trails down. currently people going 'up' hill are doing between 0 and 8 mph. people coming down can be doing up to 20 easily. now add in someone riding 'up' at the same speed... a 20 mph collision becomes a 40mph one and as speed increases, likelihood increases. If i sometimes have to dodge people coming down when crawling up then..

How many people responding have actually ridden an ebike?

Appeal to me is instead of doing a 20 mile loop around local singletrack i could do 40 miles and enjoy seeing so much more of our b 8)eautiful countryside.

I bought the ebike in order to ride more.

Riding a normal bike takes it out of me in terms of climbing really. I'm fine for everything else, but I get a pain in my left thigh which restricts my riding. I wouldn't be able to ride the next day.

I went out yesterday on the normal bike for 25 miles, and the ebike for another 25 today.
Feels good to get out more often.

Tomorrow will be a day off the bike, probably ride the normal bike on Wednesday again.

Allows me to ride more often, sometimes further.
But I enjoy both of the bikes, just riding and being out.

I'm still baffled as to who these people are who think someone doing a maximum of 15mph (probably less) on an electric bike uphill is any more a threat to cycling off road than someone doing 40mph down a fire road, or 20 down a singletrack, on a normal bike.

E bikes aren't a threat to cycling at all. They're just another way of enjoying bike riding. I'd probably enjoy one if I could afford one and I love the fitness bit of biking. If I had an e-bike I could go 40 miles for the effort of 20. I wouldn't need a car to get to the best trails. Sounds great!

My uphill speed is not that much greater than some of the faster bike riders to be honest.

It just makes it easier.

For instance, the Skyline climb out of Glyncorrwg is achievable by young fit fast riders in about 30 minutes, that the same as I can manage on the ebike with a little bit of effort.

Therefore, in reality I just become quite fast at climbing if I put my mind to it. It is still an effort to go this fast for me, just makes climbing a bit easier if I don't push too hard.

My uphill speed is not that much greater than some of the faster bike riders to be honest.

and thats the point but some people [i]do [/i]ride up hills in turbo mode

I'm still baffled as to who these people are who think someone doing a maximum of 15mph (probably less) on an electric bike uphill is any more a threat to cycling off road than someone doing 40mph down a fire road, or 20 down a singletrack, on a normal bike.

because the impact velocity is doubled. currently nothing out in the wilds goes up hills at over 10 mph, apart from maybe a deer or frisky badger.

So you pedal up there with some effort at a relatively normal speed? You should be banned, you're spoiling it for everyone else.

😉

Canopy - I would be amazed if anyone could pedal an ebike up anything off road that isn't a fire road at 15mph even in turbo mode. So there's still nothing that can go over 10mph.

Sorry for the straw man response to both of you but aracer if the concern is nothing to do with appearance why aren't people on here clamouring to ban horses because of the potential damage to trails they might cause and the risk that damage might be attributed to mtb?

Canopy those sane trails are also suitable for people with push chairs or wheel chair users who generally don't dodge on coming mtbs yes? Ok they can't (generally, but what about e pushchairs?) move that fast. What about dogs? Ok they're generally smaller and should be on the lead and are in no way inclined to run at mtbs. What about horses, they go pretty fast, uphill, weigh a lot, act erratically when scarred (such as by a fast moving mtb). The list goes on. I'd wager an e bike doing w5kph up hill will stop a lot more effectively than the mtb doing (likely much more than) 35kph down hill. So which one is the threat, which one is the risk, which is the nuisance?

Coming downhill the ebike weighs more but in theory isn't traveling any faster sho it's no more of a risk than the normal mtb surely?

because the impact velocity is doubled. currently nothing out in the wilds goes up hills at over 10 mph, apart from maybe a deer or frisky badger.

Strava begs to differ. Even for non ebike riders

You won't get far riding in Turbo mode.

Turbo drains the battery very quickly, and then you are left with a flat battery. Haven't tried to work out the range in Turbo, but can't be more than 10 miles off road.

I usually ride in Eco for about 85% of the time, only time turbo gets used is on the sharp climb on Tarmac back to my house.

I have a 500 watt battery, and the range is about 35 miles off road.
Turbo will severely restrict the range, as will the other increased power options.

Eco is like being 25 again

why aren't people on here clamouring to ban horses because of the potential damage to trails they might cause and the risk that damage might be attributed to mtb?

A. There's no way you'd confuse damage caused by horses with damage caused by MTB's - unless the horses were on MTB's....

B. Mountain biking is pretty new to the rural party - horses have been around wayyyyyy longer & they aren't going away..

C. Your average countryside stroller can quite easily get irate at the most benign of MTBer.....they get really quite riled by motocross bikes but can usually tell the difference plus you can here the bigger coming from the next county. Turn that into a stealth machine that looks like an MTB.....& you don't have to have the brains of Einstein there'll get the hump with both groups..

Access is hard won - by all means ride your eMTB/electric motorbike but do it where it's appropriate & respectful for all our sakes..

[quote=dangeourbrain ]Sorry for the straw man response to both of you but aracer if the concern is nothing to do with appearance why aren't people on here clamouring to ban horses because of the potential damage to trails they might cause and the risk that damage might be attributed to mtb?

Eh? The concern [b]is[/b] that e-motorbikes look just like e-bikes (to anybody untrained in recognising them) - that is exactly the reason for the problem. Nobody thinks a horse looks like an e-bike. I'm not sure what's confusing you about my previous reply - I simply pointed out that nobody is suggesting they are the same because they look the same. However the fact they do look the same does result in one being mistaken for the other.

Sorry aracer, largely a problem with knowing what i meant and not reading what i wrote, "are the same" should have read "are to be treated the same."

However many people do seem to think they (emotos/ebikes) are the same thing, the complaint being xxx is ridiculous so they should all be banned, only xxx is an emoto and is already banned (at least from doing said things).

Mrlebowski, my point is maybe rather lost on the basis of the above and my subsequent arguing against a point which was never made, but I'm not totaly bonkers, i can tell the difference between a bike and a horse.
Ime pretty much all whinging about damage caused by a user group comes after the fact though and many people [s]couldn't[/s] will choose not to try tell the difference between a motox bike tyre track and a mtb one, they just see tyre tracks tearing through bluebells and hillsides.

Eh? The concern is that e-motorbikes look just like e-bikes (to anybody untrained in recognising them)

I cant help but feel that if we as mountain bikers (riders, industry and media) side with e-bikes then we'll only have ourselves to blame when we're banned from trails.

who are the "they" that are going to ban the collective "us" ?

I can't help but get the feeling that:

A. There are some here who really don't give a sh1t about anyone else as long as they can get their buzz on.

B. Some really thick folks who think that acting like a d1ck is totally cool.

[quote=dangeourbrain ]Sorry aracer, largely a problem with knowing what i meant and not reading what i wrote, "are the same" should have read "are to be treated the same."

I live with a woman, I should be used to that 😳

Not that it changes my reply much - I don't think they should be treated the same, but ordinary members of the public won't be able to tell the difference so will think they should be treated the same. I can also see some official bodies wanting to treat them all the same if e-motorbikes cause issues.

Evolution of cycling. I suppose Lance Armstrong performance enhancement is part of cycling evolution as well??

Pish and piffle.

I dont believe the hype around perfomance enhancing drugs.
The reason being, after one particularly heavy weekend a few year back, me and a mate did Gisburn, and to get round in one piece in a reasonable time did pure ephedrine.

It was not succesful.

not quite the same thing though is it.. 😆

I can't help but get the feeling that:

A. There are some here who really don't give a sh1t about anyone else as long as they can get their buzz on.

B. Some really thick folks who think that acting like a d1ck is totally cool.

I haven't seen any that fit into either A or B, could you point them out?

I have seen people suggesting that the OP is over-reacting, and that calling for banning of thing X based on people mis-using thing Y, which is already banned, but that's not the same thing at all.

In fact I think most people have gone out of their way to say that acting like a d1ck is the problem in it's entirety, rather than than the use of a particular tool to be a d1ck with.

There's no way you'd confuse damage caused by horses with damage caused by MTB's - unless the horses were on MTB's....

Very true - the horses really rip up the trails (to the point where it is uncomfortable to ride them on my rigid bike when they are dry)