[Closed] Electric bikes need to be stopped.

And yet in Europe, E-bikes are everywhere. All the shops have huge amounts for sale, at an expo at an event most of the bikes on the stands were e-bikes, and this was a XCM event. While this seems to be a huge issue causing angst in the Uk and US, Europe seems to have just got on with it.

And that's exactly why we are out of the EU

I think they will cause eventually problems, when they start being nuisance (and they will cos people are dicks) landowners won't be arsed to check individuals/bikes they'll just blanket ban everyone cos it's easier..
It could be a spectacular own goal by the bike industry, shift a load of easily derestricted offroad ebikes short term, bikes get banned from loads of public land long term with the reduced bike sales to go with it..
As in loads of things in life the minority who don't GAF about anything apart from they're own gratification will **** it up for everyone else who act responsibly, same as the situation with crossers and green laners.

I bought a bike with a battery
Now my Strava times do flatter me
I'll never be beat
Because I am a cheat
With a KOM in ****tery.

Do landowners have the power to downgrade a bridleway to a footpath? I don't think they do.

People ride plenty of places that aren't bridle ways or footpaths
I'm not on my high horse against em btw, I don't think I'm the moral majority and I can't be arsed to argue anyway, but imo I do think they'll cause problems long term

I was cycling back along a SUP the other day when a someone came round the corner on a super-moto style motorbike. I'm pretty sure motorbikes should be banned.

Amusingly I'd just passed a couple of coppers walking the same way I was going.

At this point where we're trying to encourage more open access for bikes on footpaths like in Scotland, the e-bike thing will only provide the bobble-hat brigade and horseriders ammo to be used against us. Similarly, landowners can petition to have rights of way closed/restricted if they can demonstrate a nuisance. The difficulty is enforcement - I can go out every day and see people riding motorbikes at high speed on MOD ranges and AFAIK nothing has been done.

And that's exactly why we are out of the EU

Yes, eBike usage across the EU was one of main things the exit campaign was based on.

they'll just blanket ban everyone cos it's easier..
It could be a spectacular own goal by the bike industry, shift a load of easily derestricted offroad ebikes short term, bikes get banned from loads of public land long term with the reduced bike sales to go with it..

Rather difficult to do when it means changing established access laws for a bridleway. Munrobiker's right. It'd only be a risk on permissive bridleways, a small percentage.

All the laws that are needed to deal with a derestricted e-bike being used anywhere at all w/o number plates and insurance etc are already in place. You'd be riding an unlicensed and uninsured motorbike. The enforcement might be an issue but I can't see how a blanket ban on bikes in areas we already have access to would happen as the easy option.

I've always argued that ebikes are great, especially if they do actually take off for transportation (I thought they'd be huge for this already to be honest, not sure why take up isn't greater)

Places like the Netherlands have high ebike usage because they have decent infrastructure so people who might not otherwise be able to cycle long distances (the elderly and disabled, for example) can get an ebike and keep some mobility and independence because they've got safe routes to use the ebike on.

Gonna read this thread properly at lunch!!!

We should be concerned.

Once upon a time no one worried much about the occasional person taking a motorbike along trails and paths. Then in the 70s along came the cheap Japanese 2 stroke trail bikes in their hordes and tore the trails to pieces and making a hell of a racket while doing it.

In just about every country in the western world clampdowns on trail use followed - no distinction was made between slow bikes and full on motocrossers, all got banned.

Misuse of trails by electric motorbikes could have the same end result.

I don't want to see e-bikes banned, I may be needing one soon, but electric motor trail bikes need to be nipped in the bud because the idiots will gravitate to them and wreck it for everyone (again).

If i had the spare cash id get an ebike today.. My knees don't like to be hammered for miles on end!

Can't do that Goldigger, it's not 'keeping it real' apparently.

I appreciate that there will be issues with legality and individuals taking the piss, but by and large, I think the development of e-bikes and electric motorbikes can only be a good thing. Especially in urban areas; just think, no more ridiculously noisy pizza delivery scooters or naughty boys doing burnouts etc. More electric vehicles all round please.

reasonably high "stile" at the start of every tc trail, if you can lift your bike over you can ride it.

reasonably high "stile" at the start of every tc trail, if you can lift your bike over you can ride it.

Nice way to put off anyone with a disability 😕

Not to mention that it wont stop lawbreakers who are seldom without mates to assist with such things.

Don't change the trails, don't ban the bikes, enforce the laws and punish the [b]people[/b] who take the piss, as ever this isn't about eBikes, it's about people and how sadly, some of them are dicks and won't play nice.

Nice way to put off anyone with a disability
Not to mention that it wont stop lawbreakers who are seldom without mates to assist with such things.

you could put in lockable gates , if there was a need. "lawbreakers" ? is that what they think of themselves ? if so why not just ride a normal motorbike.

There's a national speed limit of 70mph. Doesn't put off anyone with a car capable of greater speeds, from breaking that limit though.

"lawbreakers" ? is that what they think of themselves ?

no I mean, specifically the ones deliberately taking de-restricted bikes or actual electric (or petrol) motorbikes places where they are not allowed.

ie: you wont stop the determined with a simple thing like a gate or fence, all you'll do is make it harder for legitimate users to access the trails there are legally allowed to.

cinnamon_girl - Member
Can't do that Goldigger, it's not 'keeping it real' apparently

I am keeping it real, when ive got knee replacements I can still get out on a "bike" rather than retire to sitting in front of the TV being an armchair biker!
🙂

Its tough to compare UK with mainland EU, there is so much more space there. I cant see your average chav hooligan splashing out on an ebike when he can use a moped that cost jack shit. I reckon they will fall into line

clodhopper - Member
no more naughty boys doing burnouts etc. More electric vehicles all round please.

Like they couldn't do that on an electric motorbike?

Legal E bikes on trails designed for MTB's? No dramas. I'm sure the day will come when I will get one myself.

Electric motorbike as defined by the DVLA being used on trails designed for MTB's? That's irresponsible, obnoxious & ****tish.

Trail centres (I use that specific example as the OP was talking about Bedgebury) weren't designed for the power & pace of something like that Bronco. It is an accident looking for somewhere to happen. Kind of like taking a high powered car on the public road & blasting about.

You want to go fast on your chosen toy? Do it where it's appropriate to do so. Be that the track, proper moto cross trails are so far away from anyone else the only one whose going to get hurt is you.

It's so fekin simple & obvious you'd have to be a total moron to argue otherwise.

Went on a ride with a big group this weekend and one of them had an E-bike

I have regularly been told that e-bike riders 'still need to pedal, therefore, it's still cycling'

I'm a fit rider and typically one of the first to the top of the hill. We were in Exmoor - so they're pretty big hills

What really got on my tits was the fact the the e-bike rider was passing me near the top of a 300 to 400m climb. I'd get there 10 seconds after he arrived and he wasn't even red-faced - let alone out of breath

This isn't cycling - and any comparison to the naysayers against the introduction of disc brakes or suspension back in the 90s is bollocks - this is a totally different situation

This new segment is going to open up our cherished and quiet trails to a massive influx of people who were previously too lazy to develop their fitness levels - now, they can buy their fitness for £2.5K to £4K and whizz around with no regard to trail etiquette, causing more trail erosion and annoying the ramblers who will not differentiate them for the non-E-Bike crowd

Rant over.....

Do you know whether the e-bike rider had a bike before this one?

I'm just not convinced that a battery and a small motor is suddenly going to get a whole army of couch potatoes off their arses and into the hills. If it does then I guess that has to be good news, but my guess is that most sales will be to people who cycled anyway and can now go faster uphill.

I'm a fit rider and typically one of the first to the top of the hill. We were in Exmoor - so they're pretty big hills

What really got on my tits was the fact the the e-bike rider was passing me near the top of a 300 to 400m climb. I'd get there 10 seconds after he arrived and he wasn't even red-faced - let alone out of breath

Troll?, or just upset that your perceived fitness and experience ([i]swoon[/i]) was not recognised thus endangering your social standing in the pissing contest?.

If the first then poor show, if the second then even poorer show.

Why care that the e bike got to the top first?

I might have to buy one of these ebikes knowing it winds some people up that much.

I think this whole e-bike thing is just progression, there will always people who do not get them, think they are called luddites.
I bought one for mrs gummikuh, after breast cancer, the radiation and chemo, really knocked her, she loves to cycle and we used to ride together all the time, this enables her to ride to work and we get out together.
Riding with her is really tough when she wants to put the hammer down, I have to really work to keep up, I look on it as training, she whoops like a child again, that is why they are out there.
I have ridden it a fair few times and can see me getting one when I'm older for my commute as they would allow me to wear my work clothes and not have the hassle of spare clothes and waiting for the shower to be free.

"I might have to buy one of these ebikes knowing it winds some people up that much."

^Same here. 😀

Actually, I was thinking that a commute of some distance, for example Enfield to Wimbledon (the commute of a friend of hours) takes quite a while via public transport, and often much longer by car. By motorbike, it would be a good bit quicker. By pedal bike, it's quite some distance for an average person to make every weekday. But an E-bike would be able to use cycle lanes/shortcuts, and not be as much physical effort. I'm sure some people could happily ride that each day, but a lot can't, and tbh, anything that might help enable folk to travel more independently, is a good thing. Anything that might offer a viable alternative to petrol engines is a good thing. And anything that might challenge peoples' insistence on using private petrol engined transport is a good thing.

This is why I want to see far more E-bikes being used. The vast majority won't ever bother going 'off road'. And if a few do, then will it really cause the harm some sensationalist commentators think it will?

Paging Jeremy Vine, are you receiving, over....

What really got on my tits was the fact the the e-bike rider was passing me near the top of a 300 to 400m climb. I'd get there 10 seconds after he arrived and he wasn't even red-faced - let alone out of breath

I don't know why that should piss you off. Does it piss off the slower riders in your group that you're always mega fit and racing up the hills rather than chillin and spinning up slowly?

However saying that I don't think it's good etiquette to race up every hill on an ebike just because you can. When I've been out on an ebike (I can't ride regularly due to health issues without one) I make sure I'm always at, or very near, the back.

"I bought one for mrs gummikuh, after breast cancer, the radiation and chemo, really knocked her, she loves to cycle and we used to ride together all the time, this enables her to ride to work and we get out together.
Riding with her is really tough when she wants to put the hammer down, I have to really work to keep up, I look on it as training, she whoops like a child again, that is why they are out there."

And that. That's another reason I want to see more of them. Because it offers freedom and mobility to so many more people. So happy your wife is now able to enjoy the outdoors again, gummikuh. Your story alone is enough to justify their sale and use. 😀

Maybe the ill and infirm should be made to wear an armband marking them out as such when using an ebike.... Worked for the Jews.

Blind people in Germany wear a yellow armband which looks at first glance like a nuclear symbol.

Here in Germany you do see quite a lot of people with ebikes out on the trails. Have seen a few reach places that they wouldn't have under their own steam and then have difficulty trying to carry their 25kg bike down the mountain over roots and rocks.

I don't care if i'm first or last up the hill.

What got on my tits is that he wasn't even out of breath after such a strenuous climb. i.e. the power assist bike was doing 90% of the work

This is not cycling, this is motor biking

By the way - i have no issues at all about e-bikes on the road or for people with health problems. I do have major issues about where the manufacturer driven E-Bike craze will lead the sport of Mountain Biking

Continued rant over

well, everybody is already dressing like wannabe motocrossers...

We need to be careful as there is a chance that we/they (ebikes) will annoy other trail users - we can see some of that in this thread!

BUT they will never replace cycling. They will increase the number and types of people who can enjoy cycling as a hobby. And that's a good thing in my opinion.

I don't care if i'm first or last up the hill.

Course you don't. Absolutely. 100%. I believe you. Really.

Boltonjon; other than to your own ego, what actual harm did this person cause?

I had a spin on one this weekend when I dropped my bike off at the LBS to get my dropper post warrantied.

It was quite good fun. The chap in the shop said they'd sold them to people for commuting and to riders who's other halves wanted to go out riding but couldn't keep up. They liked it because they didn't have to slow down on climbs to let their significant other keep up.

An old riding buddy of mine bought one after have a triple heart bypass. His doctor advised against strenuous mountain biking so he went for an eBike. He often passes roadies going up Cheddar Gorge on his way to the trails. Hilarious to watch people's faces as he cheerily says "Good morning lads" as he scoots past roadies chewing their stems on a full susser.

I prefer to get around on my own steam, but will happily have an eBike when I can no longer do so. 🙂

This is not cycling, this is motor biking

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN.

No, it isn't.

It really isn't that important.

Anything that might offer a viable alternative to petrol engines is a good thing. And anything that might challenge peoples' insistence on using private petrol engined transport is a good thing.

When I worked in a bike shop just as e-bikes started to get properly good all the ones we sold were for this, people commuting 10 miles each way who weren't cyclists but didn't want to pollute with a car. It's a great idea, and I'd do it if I had the money.

Hilarious to watch people's faces as he cheerily says "Good morning lads" as he scoots past roadies chewing their stems on a full susser.

think i can see the problem with the roadies

Well I have a normal bike and an ebike.

I ride both.

I'm not buying fitness with the ebike, I'm buying a bike that allows me to go out and ride and enjoy trail riding.

Both are fat bikes, so I'm definitely not trying to be the fastest up the hill all the time.

In fact I'm off out on the ebike right now, it allows me to get out more often as I can't ride the normal bike 2 days in a row as I suffer with some strength issues.

I don't see what all the fuss is about, went to Bike Park Wales on the ebike and rode up and down all day. Some folk said I was cheating - then they climbed into the uplift bus........

You do have to ride, you do have to pedal, in fact my riding on the ebike is only about 10 beats per minute lower.

Bless, I'm off out having fun.

I don't care if i'm first or last up the hill.
Course you don't. Absolutely. 100%. I believe you. Really.

I ride a fat bike and a 160 trail bike - hardly the weapons to be at the top before anyone else or be setting strava KOMs are they?

dude, its just evolution of the bicycle.

or are you still riding on square wheels?

They sound great,i cant wait to try one.

160 trail bike

but you dont NEED 160mm of travel

CHEATER!!!

Yep - i'm cheating myself dragging a big bouncy bike to the top of a hill to hammer back down the other side

Evolution of cycling. I suppose Lance Armstrong performance enhancement is part of cycling evolution as well??

When bicycles are banned from byways we can all become roadies. Super, can't wait

I ride a fat bike and a 160 trail bike - hardly the weapons to be at the top before anyone else or be setting strava KOMs are they?

Stopping digging, you're making it worse 🙂

Give the bloke a break, he may have got to the top first without being out of breath. He may have an e-bike because getting out of breath puts him at risk of something inconvenient, like death!

Chill and enjoy the ride, as long as you're out of breath and getting the exercise you want, why care about others enjoying themselves as well? It's not as if he buzzed your back wheel on the way up, shouting, "pedal faster loser!".

Struggling to pedal still does me more good than not at the moment, if that changes I'd have no problem with an e-bike to keep me out and active.

What got on my tits is that he wasn't even out of breath after such a strenuous climb. i.e. the power assist bike was doing 90% of the work

he's only cheating himself then. they have variable power and [b]he[/b] chose to over-assist (possibly due to pissing contest of group situation).

personally i don't like em, and i do think they will cause issues with access and accidents from misuse. BUT, it is just like car drivers who drive like tits, or 4x4 drivers who illegally drive off-road.

i've only ever seen two on the quantocks now. both seem to be using them responsibly. i see one guy almost weekly now - it is a bit frustrating to be passed on a tough climb by one. even more reason to get fitter 😉

one guy did mention how he can smash berms with his. i just decided the the best decription is that they're the chelsea tractor of the mtb world. expensive, over powered and you're fooling no-one love.

fact is.. they'll never float over rocks n roots with the finesse i do on my bike. i'd hire one to explore maybe if i could, and consider one down the line to commute on a bit (a commute would 20 miles - part canal path and grass track) but that's it.

So your GNARDURO bike isnt an evolution...how is that any better with your 2.5's roosting every berm on natural trails...why should your average joe see a difference between that and an e-bike.

My money is on your average joe couldnt tell the difference between your fat bike and an e bike - less which is 'worse'

What if someone had done exactly the same as the ebiker, (ie, torn your legs off on a climb got to the top and showed no sign of any exertion), should he be banned too?

You say it yourself, you have a 160mm trail bike so you can hammer the downs. Using technology to assist in going faster down the hill. Your nemesis has simply applied the same logic for going up.

Must be just me then who totally agrees with Boltonjon .

"I ride a fat bike and a 160 trail bike"

So, you use suspension to aid your travel over rough ground? Wow. Imagine how many people with hard tails/fully rigid mtbs you must really, really annoy, when you blast past them on rocky descents...

This bloke would be really annoyed if you did that to him. Imagine his anger, if you rode past him on your nice, comfy, mechanically superior machine?

[img] [/img]

Nowt wrong with e-bikes, but its incorrect to see them as a modern progression or evolution of the bicycle.

Power assisted pedalling has been around since someone first thought to strap an engine on a bicycle frame. So they're more like a re-invention of the road going derny or a low powered moped (in its original sense as a dual powered two wheeler).

It'd be great if people started seeming them as a real alternative to the motor car, but somehow I doubt that will ever happen.

^^^^ how dare you bring facts into this trolling...

BJ. I get it you don't like them that's fine, i'm guessing you may not benefit from one. But others will benefit greatly from them.

You really want to outlaw them..and stop people enjoying this sport?

It's ok, imma buy a load of old trailquest/Polaris style map boards and repurpose them so people can attach their doctors note and/ or birth certificate so others can judge whether or not they deserve their ebike.

Then buy (another) ebike with the profits

Every time I see one of these threads I start looking at ebikes. One day I'll have had a few drinks and that'll be it...

What negs me out is that ebike rules will only ever be enforced in cities and suburbs where a nippy, light, pedal free ebike (as opposed to a e-moped - which are just stupid heavy for no real reason) would actually make a lot of sense

This is getting silly now, how can a bike with a motor, be the same as one with out. I think the whole point is it's a different sport.

Thin end of the wedge i tell you.

I had problems on a rock climb a few months back. I'm going back in a week with a hammer and chisel to chip out a nice big jug hold next to the crux. It seems easier than training and/or improving my technique.

Good to see some balance coming from the STW fraternity 🙂

Fergal has it,ebikes are something different. They have a place but aren't an evolution of or a replacement for normal bicycles. I do wish people would stop lumping them in with mountain bikes as a whole 🙁

Sorry Evolution was poorly chosen, how about alternative progression? 😉

Got overtaken a couple of times at Dyfi yesterday by blokes riding these (same as in the OP I believe)...
[img] [/img]

They were flying up the climbs at the speed of a petrol motorbike.

Personally I've gone 180 degrees on pedal-assist e-bikes and don't have a problem with them, but these electric motorbikes would definitely not be suitable for all trails IMO.

I seen the the staff at Bike Park Wales last week refusing to let a guy ride his electric motorcrosser - or what ever it was - on their trails

They said it was kicking out more than the allowable power output so asked him to use another bike or leave

I was very encouraged by this attitude 🙂

Where is it written that riding a bike has to involve getting tired & out of breath? Its meant to be enjoyable, getting worn out isnt enjoyable.
Once of the reasons I dont associate myself with being a cyclist, I just ride a bike. Too much cock socketery involved with being a cyclist.
Some people need to learn the difference between an e-motorbike & an e-bike.

Lol at oldtalent, this thread has gone beyond parody now. Just enjoy yourselves and I wish all you ebikers well. 😀

Hopefully, a slight change of tack on the thread - there's this young bleach/coloured hair kid who flies past me on the cycle path some evenings, is this legal - it's a bike shaped thing, more cruiser style, it looks old and rusty, it makes a brrrm noise (quiet), he wears no helmet, it goes at least 30mph.
Can't think what it is unless the law just can't catch him. One morning he pulled out on a roundabout in front of me and I called him a rude name - he just accelerated off like a rocket.

I seen the the staff at Bike Park Wales last week refusing to let a guy ride his electric motorcrosser - or what ever it was - on their trails
They said it was kicking out more than the allowable power output so asked him to use another bike or leave
I was very encouraged by this attitude

You do know that that is the view of pretty well every pedal assist ebike rider, right?

+ a sideways 8 for people learning the difference between a pedalec bike, and a motorbike powered by electricity. Clue: it's not 'having a motor'

[quote=oldtalent ]Some people need to learn the difference between an e-motorbike & an e-bike.

Some people, including joe public presumably? Given that the issue appears to be people taking to the trails with e-motorbikes as if they were e-bikes and potentially causing problems.

Got overtaken a couple of times at Dyfi yesterday by blokes riding these

Man, some of the stuff posted in this topic is getting insane. I thought this was the liberal STworld not the pseudo-nazi-daily mail-NIMBY-fest world. Blimey, a few people choose to buy an electrically assisted pedal bike and suddenly all hell breaks loose.

E-MTB's will be huge, once the price comes down and weight get closer to 30 than 40 pounds then I think they will be everywhere off-road. Big deal, lots of room out there for all of us.

I'm test riding one this week.

You are aware of where most of the tracks in the Dyfi came from aren't you?

You are aware that I didn't say they were unsuitable for the Dyfi, aren't you?

Good job.
Should have told them to get some proper bikes though.
Far better for making trails with. 😉

Stop being pedantic it's still an electric motor, why won't they let me ride an Enduro event on one.

Sure i've seen you toproping Severe at Stanage.

PS. They will be everywhere because people are inherently fat and lazy.

Legal E bikes on trails designed for MTB's? No dramas. I'm sure the day will come when I will get one myself.
Electric motorbike as defined by the DVLA being used on trails designed for MTB's? That's irresponsible, obnoxious & ****tish.
Trail centres (I use that specific example as the OP was talking about Bedgebury) weren't designed for the power & pace of something like that Bronco. It is an accident looking for somewhere to happen. Kind of like taking a high powered car on the public road & blasting about.
You want to go fast on your chosen toy? Do it where it's appropriate to do so. Be that the track, proper moto cross trails are so far away from anyone else the only one whose going to get hurt is you.
It's so fekin simple & obvious you'd have to be a total moron to argue otherwise.
POSTED 1 MONTH AGO #

Man, some of the stuff posted in this topic is getting insane. I thought this was the liberal STworld not the pseudo-nazi-daily mail-NIMBY-fest world. Blimey, a few people choose to buy an electrically assisted pedal bike and suddenly all hell breaks loose.

E-MTB's will be huge, once the price comes down and weight get closer to 30 than 40 pounds then I think they will be everywhere off-road. Big deal, lots of room out there for all of us.

I'm test riding one this week.

because you obviously don't understand that they're a threat to MTB full stop for normal users. not threat in the "eveyrone will stop riding them" way, but that the lazy ****ers will get it banned for everyone else way (*caveat health reasons etc.. i haven't met a single person who hasn't bought one as an act conspicuous consumption yet!)

Seems to be a lot of daily mail readers on here lately