[Closed] Ebike weight reduction

I think what your bike starting weight is, is relevant. And what you hope to achieve.

My focus jam2 is a relatively ‘light’ bike at 46lbs relative to 50lbs+ for some of the larger battery models. But for what benefit? Mines still too heavy to lift over a gate or hike a bike. And not convinced the weight difference makes much difference on the trail. And shaving a 1lb or 2 off makes little difference.

I think unless you are down at or below the 40lb mark. So high end Levo sl or rise, only then maybe the benefit noticeable. My view anyway.

As above kind of pointless and swapping a dropper for a rigid post.😮

Dropper - Yeah I know, but its quite a saving and in truth i wasnt thinking straight 😆 I just kind of looked at what the peripherals weighed so to speak.

Bike weighs 23.40kg (51.60lbs) which is quite a chunk of bike to move about, even just lifting the back end moving it out the house etc etc. TBH it might not be that much of a saving overall and being electric with all those parts, being heavy goes with the territory.

Just a muse really.

I did have the option of maybe going for something like the 320w battery size set up like a Lapierre e-Zesty 19.5kg or Specialized Levo SL 17kg or an Orbea Rise at 16 1/2kg, but I was concerned about the range so went for the bigger battery sized bike.

If you’re going from dropper to rigid, might as well go to 26” wheels!

**** losing the dropper! 😬

You'd be better off doing some resistance training. I've lifted a 50lb+ Turbo Levo over gates and stiles. It's not exactly ideal and I wouldn't pick routes littered with stiles as a result, but it's not impossible if you're reasonably strong and coordinated - or if you have sympathetic riding buddies.

I suspect you'd end up spending a huge amount of cash to lose a relatively small proportion of the overall weight of your bike. It might make some sense on a conventional bike, but seems vaguely pointless on a full fat e-bike.

It is a heavy bike due to the battery and motor so all the other stuff has to be stronger to cope which normally means heavier which means all the other stuff has to be stronger to cope which normally means heavier which means all the other stuff has to be stronger to cope which normally means heavier which means all the other stuff has to be stronger to cope which normally means heavier which means all the other stuff has to be stronger to cope which normally means heavier which means all the other stuff has to be stronger to cope which normally means heavier which means all the other stuff has to be stronger to cope which normally means heavier which means etc

You aren't going to save much weight without compromising reliability and longevity unfortunately. Just turn up the assist and pretend you are fitter

Ride it with the battery half empty? 🙋‍♂️

Ride it with the battery half empty?

Solution 😀

Or I could fill the tyres with helium.

When moving the bike about have you tried removing the battery? Makes a huge difference.

Most of the weight reduction seems to be from the cassette and dropper post. If you can handle a smaller cassette, just replacing that would help slightly.

The functionality of a dropper post easily makes the weight worth it for most people. That would be the last thing I would think about changing to save weight.

Upgrading to more powerful brakes is generally a good thing. Worrying about the weight of brakes is not a good thing, especially on an e-bike.

Most of the weight reduction seems to be from the cassette and dropper post. If you can handle a smaller cassette, just replacing that would help slightly.

It really wouldn't though, would it. It's a bit like using reduced fat cream and pouring it over a massive slice of chocolate fudge cake and thinking you're on a diet.

Upgrading to more powerful brakes is generally a good thing. Worrying about the weight of brakes is not a good thing, especially on an e-bike.

I also think OP would be sorely disappointed by the performance of a Hope E4. Especially on a 50lb e-bike.

It is a heavy bike due to the battery and motor, because it has a motor fat bastards can to ride to the top of the hill so all the other stuff has to be stronger to cope with said fat bastard riding down the hill.

The difference in weight between non and e-bike is less than 10kg which is far less the difference the difference between a whippet XC racer ( who is putting more power through the drivetrain than the e-bike motor) and a Clydesdale.

I wouldn't go to a smaller cassette either, riding a lower cadence over time will have a negative effect on the motor.

Seriously, what's the point? It weighs a frikkin ton anyway and you're just changing components for the sake of it. To save weight in wheels there is literally no point just swapping hubs as its the rotational mass that counts and provides the benefits, but even a lot rim weight is negligible as you've got an additional (guess at) 250w to begin with, which is more than your average MTB'er on here anyway.

My Merida eOne-Sixty weights dead on 22kg, so is lighter than most full ebikes and having ridden a few different ones, I think the relative lightness does help. Sensible weight saving opportunities are limited, I wouldn't compromise on wheels and dropper, but 10 speed gearing is perfectly suited.

You aren’t going to save much weight without compromising reliability and longevity unfortunately. Just turn up the assist and pretend you are fitter

This is very correct

My Levo Expert weighed 22kg as standard

Once i upgraded the following parts that i didnt like, wouldnt hold up to my style and type of riding the bike hit 24kg (this is my 2nd Levo and also had a Kenevo so know what works for me)

Crappy Roval wheels swapped for Hope Fortus 30
Brakes swapped for Hope V4 with Hope V4 vented rotors
Tyres swapped for Maxxis Assegai 2.5WT DoubleDown casing in Maxxxgrip
Forks swapped to FOX 36 Facotry forks
Rear shock swapped to FOX X2
Bars swapped to Raceface Sixc carbon bars
Stem swapped to Raceface Atlas stem
Pedals swapped for Hope pedals
Crank arms swapped for Hope crank arms
Dropper swapped for FOX factory dropper
DMR Dethgrips

The only original parts are the saddle, shifter and rear mech

The 2kg extra weight is hardly noticable when riding and the bike now smashes through everything i throw at it without breaking

I’ve been thinking of a nicer way to put it but I can’t. No no no no no. Even thinking about this is pointless, let alone doing it. Ebikes are bloody heavy, I know, I own an alloy Levo. Fiddling around trying to save tiny amounts of weight on components is madness.

If it’s hard to manhandle due to its weight then I’d try to get stronger (unless you have a health reason that precludes such training).

24kg !!!! **** !!!! I knew e-bikes were big but never looked at the tech of one - that just
scared me 😉

Thought my tinbred was portly at 9.2kg .....

I think you would have been better off getting one of the lighter bikes & a range extender TBH.

Ive looked at this as well, and came to the conclusion there is no point, with one exception.

It may be worth (if it is possible for your particular ebike) getting a smaller battery for those days where you know you're only doing a short ride, and are therefore carrying around a kilo of extra battery , quite high up on the frame where it affects handling more.

If you do this, you then have a spare battery that can be carried in a rucksack for those really big days where one large battery isnt enough, a small and light battery (and bike) for those short days (or days when you're with normal bikes and not even touching the sides of the bigger battery), and a large battery for those normal ebike days.

Eg I have a bosch bike with the 625wh battery, the battery weighs 3.7kg. I could buy the 500wh battery which weighs 2.8kg and use that for general knocking around and save nearly a kilo with no compromise (on the right rides), and be a benefit on really big rides.

Just turn up the assist and pretend you are fitter

Itonly gets me up to 15.5mph, after that you can really feel the drag that extra weight makes. One of the reasons for buying was hills sap the energy right out of me. makes ridng hills a breeze and damn well enjoyable again.

I also think OP would be sorely disappointed by the performance of a Hope E4. Especially on a 50lb e-bike.

You class near bottom of the range shimano deore brakes on par with E4's 😕
But even if the power is similar, they look a lot better 😀
But in truth, a high end non ebike, all mountain, enduro is going to be up to 40lb,about 35lbs being the norm,and i see a lot of riders using E4's there. Even stock bikes of that ilk often have SLX brakes.

But I agree with the general sentiment, Im not going to save enough weight to make any noticeable difference, and its just going to cost me money.

I think you would have been better off getting one of the lighter bikes & a range extender TBH.

Where were you couple of months back when i was considering the options 😆 😆

"Itonly gets me up to 15.5mph, after that you can really feel the drag that extra weight makes. "

You can't really, what you feel is the loss of assistance. I've commuted on a full-sus, a hardtail and an ebike, all with similar parts and tyres. The ebike is no slower once you're over the 15.5 mph limiter. Obviously it's slower uphill without power due to the extra weight but good luck getting past the 15.5 mph limiter on a gradient of any significance.

It's a bit like theres something dragging, and a slight but noticeable pull when i pass the max speed. I fitted more road orientated tyres so its not the tyres knobbles, but it is a difference.
Must be the super heavy weight or something like that.
But as time goes on and my fitness and leg strength increases, I'm hoping this will become less noticeable.
I've spent too long off the bike and out of work. Strength is really bad and only a 1/2 dozen years back working as a butcher, carrying 100-120lbs split carcasses chill to block was normal, and I certainly feel I couldn't do that currently.

It’s a bit like theres something dragging, and a slight but noticeable pull when i pass the max speed.

yeah , its the fact that the motor has switched off, and now your legs are having to suddenly find an additional 100* watts from somewhere to replace the 100* watts the motor was providing but now isnt to simply stay at the same speed let alone accelerate past it.

* who knows how many watts it really is, but the motor was providing some watts and now isnt

"It’s a bit like theres something dragging, and a slight but noticeable pull when i pass the max speed. I fitted more road orientated tyres so its not the tyres knobbles, but it is a difference.
Must be the super heavy weight or something like that."

Ride it with the power off and you'll learn that it's just what MTBs are like on the road. I run cut spike style tyres front and intermediate rear, all year around! I just run them closer to 30psi when commuting and closer to 20psi for proper riding.

replace the ebike with a bike

I’d like to try a rise or Levo sl to compare with my focus.
On plus side I ‘only’ have 378wh in the focus so reduced battery size will be less of an issue. For others reduction more marked.

And for most of my riding that capacity is enough for me.

To see if 38-40lb does make a noticeable difference to handling and use. Whether it justifies the extra £ is another matter.

I have ebike and normal full suss and reckon rise or sl could be one bike to replace two.

replace the ebike with a bike

Now you're just being silly. 😆

Ride it with the power off

Oh yeah, tried that one and that little experiment lasted for two seconds 😆

Lose some body weight, far easier and cheaper (actually saves you money) than changing components which will probably fail anyway due to not being beefed up enough for an e-bike. Saw a group of overweight e-bikers recently who could easily have lost the equivalent of their bikes in body weight. If you ride an e-bike it's going to be very heavy compared to a "bike", get over it or get a "bike".

I fitted more road orientated tyres

Sounds like you really did buy the wrong bike.

Sounds like you really did buy the wrong bike.

Because I put on more road orientated tyres 😕

I should ask how many bikes you have ride

FTFY.

FTFY.

Thanks for that, though I re edited it as i didnt want to get involved with that chaps personal opinions.

Ride it with the battery half empty and Helium in the tyres

I love this place 🙂

or

🤣👍

If you go to a smaller cassette, you can lose some links from the chain as well

#everylittlehelps

If you go to a smaller cassette, you can lose some links from the chain as well

You can also fit a smaller chainring and only use the small half of the cassette and then remove some more links from the chain, plus a short cage derailleur. Virtuous spiral.

Other weight weenie tricks are to remove three bolts from each brake rotor and to fit 140 mm aluminium rotors. Trimming the bars down to 500 mm saves a chunk too. If you do that, you can also shorten your gear cables and brake hoses.

Buying a smaller frame and fitting a longer seatpost and stem will often save weight too.

Wheels can be relaced with 24 spokes to save a bit more weight.

“Itonly gets me up to 15.5mph, after that you can really feel the drag that extra weight makes. ”

If you are on the flat, then no, that statement defies the laws of physics.

Uphill it will, but riding 15.6mph up hill without motor assistance is going to be significantly harder than with motor assistance at 15.4mph

f you are on the flat, then no, that statement defies the laws of physics.

Unfortunately the world isnt frictionless, so once the motor is off, the effect slows the bike. Yes ?.
So then, i either allow the speed to drop below 15.5 and start the motor again by peddling, or im trying to propel a 52lb bike.

@Thols2
Please troll elsewhere.
I was looking to save some weight, a reasonably thought on the matter but you're just making a meal out of it.

1. go for a poo before you ride
2. take off the massively heavy motor and battery and save 20lbs or whatever it is that makes a bike weigh 50lbs

“ Unfortunately the world isnt frictionless, so once the motor is off, the effect slows the bike. Yes ?.”

Only if you can’t pedal hard enough to keep the bike moving at constant speed. On the flat it doesn’t take any more power to keep a 55lb bike moving as it does a 25lb bike, if they have the same tyres and aero.

Lots of people think ebikes are unrideable without the motor to help. This is absolute rubbish. It’s like saying that if you gained 2 stone you’d be unable to ride a bike. Yes, it’s a bit harder when you’re going uphill but it’s really not that bad, and on the flat or downhill it makes zero difference.

On the flat it doesn’t take any more power to keep a 55lb bike moving as it does a 25lb bike, if they have the same tyres and aero.

That's quite true, but a 55 lb e-bike will probably have big grippy tyres and most riders are probably not much into XC and climbing. Having 250 W available to take care of tyre and aero drag will be a shock if it's suddenly removed. I had a mate who had a freeride bike with 3" Gazalodis 20 years ago. You had to pedal that thing downhill on road to keep up with XC bikes that were just freewheeling, the tyre drag and aero were so terrible.

Lots of people think ebikes are unrideable without the motor to help. This is absolute rubbish. It’s like saying that if you gained 2 stone you’d be unable to ride a bike. Yes, it’s a bit harder when you’re going uphill but it’s really not that bad, and on the flat or downhill it makes zero difference.

Im not saying or implying its unrideable, im just saying for me its more effort, which I know myself is down too fitness and my vascular condition in my right leg.
But as to the premise about a 50lb bike over a 25lb bike, thats not correct in that were you to multiply the weights to as 200lb bike, or a 15lb bike, would they require the same effort or more/less, which is probably why road bikes arent 50lb 😉
Obviously the lighter bike requires less effort, which is the entire point of thought of trying to drop a kg or 2 off the weight of an ebike, given ebikes,unless you A.spend more, or B. opt for less range and the smaller battery, carbon frame etc are a heavy type bike

Because I put on more road orientated tyres?

No, it’s because what you actually needed was a city bike but despite multiple threads in here and other sites, you couldn’t see past a longer travel full suss mtb for riding to the shops about Glasgow. Now you’re trying to change things to make up for that.

“ Unfortunately the world isnt frictionless, so once the motor is off, the effect slows the bike. Yes ?.”

no, friction from the tyres is not dependent on the weight on them.

*Within reasonable limits so that the tyre has the same profile when loaded. This probably corresponds to about 1 extra psi in this situation.

Obviously the lighter bike requires less effort,

Only on climbs. On the flat, it's tyre drag and aero. Big DH tyres with soft rubber will be heavy rolling, but aero drag is the big thing on the flat if you're running sensible tyres.

For steep climbs, it's basically power to weight because you aren't going fast enough for aero to be a big effect. For a 65 kg rider with a 10 kg bike, knocking 1 kb off the bike weight will improve power to weight ratio by a bit over 1%, which is a big gain if you're racing at the pointy end. For a 90 kg weekend warrior carrying 5 kg of snacks and gear, riding a 25 kg bike, a 1 kg saving is less than 1% off climbing times. Ditching a dropper post to save weight will save you a few seconds on climbs but cost you minutes on descents.

If you want to go fast on a bike, starve yourself until your ribs are showing and spend two years riding 200 miles per week with lots of big climbs. Or just buy an e-bike and don't worry about weight.

But as to the premise about a 50lb bike over a 25lb bike, thats not correct in that were you to multiply the weights to as 200lb bike, or a 15lb bike, would they require the same effort or more/less, which is probably why road bikes arent 50lb 😉
Obviously the lighter bike requires less effort, which is the entire point of thought of trying to drop a kg or 2 off the weight of an ebike

remember that (unless you are in fact a ghost) you need to look at full system weight - include youself. You plus bike is going to be 100+kg. Saving a kilo is a ~1% gain.

There is a long running theme in the mtb world of attributing characteristics to the wrong thing:

I had a mate who had a freeride bike with 3″ Gazalodis 20 years ago. You had to pedal that thing downhill on road to keep up with XC bikes that were just freewheeling

this is correct.
But that freeride bike probably also had 180mm travel front and rear, and a slack (for its age) head angle.

Some people then start spouting bullshit for example that a slack head angle makes the bike slow.

Which is why until recently xc race bikes handled like poo, all mountain bikes had to hit an arbritary weight cap which meant downspeccing vital components, and so on.

No, it’s because what you actually needed was a city bike but despite multiple threads in here and other sites, you couldn’t see past a longer travel full suss mtb for riding to the shops about Glasgow. Now you’re trying to change things to make up for that.

.

Yes.
.
And no.
A shopping orientated bike, often weighs the same and in a lot of the models I looked at, especially the higher end weighed more, in face 29kg was one ~and i couldnt see how they came to that, given its a lower end fork. But then the lower end and lesser quality components often weigh more, for example a suntour coil fork, weighs in about 6lbs.
But its also to do with having nicer things, which is something many people tend towards.
.
A purely shopping only affair, is lower end but not far of similar money, so subtract the 'retail' costs of those components and the 'profit' margin of the entire set up is considerably more.
Plus the shopping/town bike(of components few here would have high on their shopping list) is fit only for that style of riding. Yes ?. there are no other options you could use it for. its just not fit for it and the lower end componentry will suffer, probably needing replaced more if used for that type of thing. Thats bad economics, especially if like me youre on a smaller income.
.
So with a finite amount to spend,and a great knowledge of components from over the last 30 years of building bikes- this being about my 22 or something, its unlikely I'll choose the lesser over the better spec.
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Then you could add in personal tastes, wants, plus I reckon the fact i was homeless for 5 years, went through the social work system,units etc and had nothing whatsoever, to build up to enjoying the finer aspects of life.
For many its a nice house or what appears to be more prevalent a high end car, not a small cheap runaround suitable for town use, so there the same aspects apply. Why would anyone want to own a car that ,yes can be used to get the shopping in, take the kids to school etc etc but costs twice or three times as much.
I take it youre a driver, im not, ive got one bike to choose from and I'd much rather have one I can adapt to suit a range of tasks that something singular in use and design.
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Ebikes are heavy, pretty much all ebikes(except as covered previously, less range etc etc) and i see no difference to me wanting to reduce that weight, than i have witnessed regular and enthusiastic cyclists do over the last X amount of time.
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Im 6'3", and 14 1/2 stone, spent a life on 26", which to be honest looks a bit undersized, even the larger frames, a bit disproportional as you'll no doubt agree. 29ers have always been touted as a better proportional system for taller riders, so a 29er it was going to be. lus ive not really had a decent proper full suss, so I wanted one of those too.
A suss bike, any suss bike the important parts as the suspension fork and shock, you agree ?. So what opt for those important parts to be lower end, less functional,have less ability etc.
So to get something capable, in my size and all round requirements I need to choose something that contains those elements,and currently I cant buy it all as an individual parts and build it as best suited, or Im throwing good money after bad.

So the bike I've chosen, is high end, though full sus ebikes can and do go up to £12000, but fulfills my needs due to medical grounds of assisting me ride easier with less effort and capable should I want to ride the town, the hill or just enjoy riding something of quality.
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As to shopping. I eat fresh food and shop near daily, so its not like im out for foodstuffs for a family of 4 with a weeks supply. couple of days worth and get there with ease.
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But all this apparently appears to trigger some people. I suspect thats more to do with them than how i chose to ride or what i decide to do it on.
Started off ok, dropper is ideal and a few questioned the need to lose that, though it can be refitted if i go further afield, but then the fannies all seemed to come in all indignant about my choices.

Ok,time for plan B H ,that's H for O o O o o Holes.

Drill everything 🙂

That’s all well and good Dyna, but you are still confusing need and want. If you want all those things that’s your choice and your money, but you do have to accept it will have compromises for the majority of the time you use it.

Drill everything

Yep. If it didn't work, the pros wouldn't be doing it.

Do ebike motors have any drag past the 15mph cutoff?

i.e. is there some stuff inside the motor that has friction when the motor is not running or is there a magical frictionless clutch?

i.e. is there some stuff inside the motor that has friction when the motor is not running or is there a magical frictionless clutc

Some of the older motors had a noticable amount of drag , but the modern motors have virtually zero drag from the motor, I think most use one of these

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprag_clutch

If you take the chain off a modern ebike and turn the cranks by hand its pretty similar amount of effort to turn the cranks on a normal bike with the chain off.

That drilled BMX gives me the bad fear

I road an ebike up the road hill towards Hawshead from the Ferry across Windermere with the motor off. It was a very heavy ebike and i pedalled as hard as i could. My conclusion was that it was kind of like ridding with panniers. It feels really hard but actually you can still make good progress. I beat my brother in law who was riding my much llighter fs mtb, i was quite surprised. Strava says he is way faster than me on the road

Do ebike motors have any drag past the 15mph cutoff?

I was actually meaning drag as in the extra weight i have to propel without the motor and the effect that has on the legs. Probably not the best choice of words maybe 😕 seems to be confusing the issue.

but you do have to accept it will have compromises for the majority of the time you use it.

Yeah that would be the weight I've got the audacity of stupidly trying to reduce 😆
My bike Scott Genius 920- 23.40kg £4899
Shopping/city bikes I considered -
Cube Kathmandu HT - 27.1kg £4299
Cube Hybrid/tour exe HT -26.9kg £3100
Focus Aventura 6.9 HT - 23.10kg £3999
Scott Axis eride FS - 26.60kg £4899
Scott Axis eride HT -25.90 £3499
As you see the majority of the above are heavier. As to outlay, id rather pay more for better spec, and the spec on most cant be compared to the genius)
There are a few others but it was a similar vein, heavier and poorer spec.

If you take the Scott Axis FS, this was my first choice. The frame is identical(geometry etc etc), the suss bits are suntour XCR34 and an Xfusion shock and very little difference on the rest. Yet the same money.
Despite what others might think, I reckon I picked the best,with the best spec for the outlay I was prepared to spend.

This is not a ebikers are fat jibe...but the easiest kg you are going to lose is the one currently around your belly.

You are using this bike for shopping (odd choice, but you clearly thought it through and it's yours to make) - buy less food & it's a double win. Less food to carry back from the shops and (eventually) less weight on the waist. AND this method actually saves you money rather than costing. What's not to like?

If you are not actually racing, the only reason to save weight on a mountain bike is to be faster up hill, and er, that's what the "e" bit in ebike is for already no??

Personally, i build ebikes as heavy and as solid as possible, esp wheels & tyres and drive train stuff, that way you can still ride on the 15mph limiter up all the hills, but you can now smash down them without breaking anything......

Ride a bit slower then you won't get past the speed limit. 🙂

Don't mean to pile on but it is a bit of an odd post. You're over-thinking it, IMO. Just ride it more then it will get easier/feel lighter.

The only ebikes I've tried were lumbering beasts and it didn't bother me at all, the only concern would be if the battery ran out.