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Sorry if this topic has been done to death but absence of search functionality and all that.... But are ebike conversions like swytch still largely regarded as shit? I would be looking to convert a hardtail.
I still like the Tongsheng one I put on my Genesis Tour de Fer 🙂
Following with interest, I've been toying with converting my commuter bike.
They work, they always look like a bodge though, with the possible exception of the Paradox Kinetics thingy, but you're into the realms of Suron antisocial &^%tyness there though.
I still like the Tongsheng one I put on my Genesis Tour de Fer 🙂
Is that the mid-drive one? Was it easy to install? Decent battery life?
Is that the mid-drive one? Was it easy to install? Decent battery life?
Yes to all 3 of those.
I was looking at a Tongsheng conversion, but they won't fit on a modern bike with 1x10 set up as the frame is built around a smaller chainring than the Tongsheng one. Best to convert an old hardtail IMHO.........
Switch was shite from concept. Hub drive
Bafang mid mount motor on our cargo bike been grand
Mid mount motor better than a hub drive.
I have a Bafang on my Surly Big Dummy, works well
I've just installed the CYC Photon kit on my Turner Sultan, the main bodgy bit is that I have had to mount the battery under the downtube because of the lack of space within the frame - if it were an XL instead of an L it would have fitted. Other FS frame types with inline shocks are more accomodating. I drilled 4 proper mounts for the battery so it is solid on its own, although I also use a couple of small straps for extra security.
The motor protrudes a bit forward but not by much and it would have been less if my frame was more of a regular front triangle shape.
The bike is a 29er set up as 27.5+ with 3.0 and 2.8 back tyres, weighed 17.75kg before fitting the kit, now 21.22Kg which includes a 728ah battery (52V, 14Ah). I cycle a lot without any assistence so get good range. I might go back to 29 as then I could make it a bit slacker with the current offset shock bushings.
The motor is torque sensing and is very good, better than the TongSheg apparently, and it is pretty quite.
The normal kit is switchable between modes and there is an EU 250W mode, although the fact it is switcheable (in the app) makes it technically not legal in the UK. There is a UK legal restricted version available now, and I don't feel the need for any more power as it is a very torquey motor.
Bafang mid drive on my commuter, very good. been on two bikes, covered around 3000 miles total over the 4 years i've owned it, it's not missed a beat. The battery is showing signs of use, not got the range it had, but other than that its been pretty faultless.
Standard rules apply though, treat it with some sympathy, no jet wash regular chain wear checks keep it out of the crap etc. Also, being a commuter not on an MTB it has probably had a relatively easy life, but even so i'm more than happy with it, i'd have another. Bafang/Tongsheng seem to be around the same sort of price (£750 ish) for a decent size battery, decent display and the unit itself, as long as you are happy to fit it.
As @natrix alluded to, check chainring/chainstay clearance before committing though.
I've been considering a front wheel conversion as I want to keep the alfine out back and the mid drive stuff looks like an overkill plus it's way more spendy.
The problem I have is the complete lack of information and poor / random translations. I've seen some advertised as waterproof (you'd expect that) but then further down it says don't use in the rain, then there's others that say the sensor will / won't / might work with a totally random combinations of bottom bracket plus others that come with really low quality brake levers with motor cutouts but they look like they'd snap and I'm using hydro discs... Nowhere does it say if you need to use these or if you can bypass them.
We looked into conversion kits for mrs_oab's hybrid.
The finance, range, power and ease of use/maintenance just did not stack up.
Particularly when you can order an ebike on cycletowork.
Most conversions look totally horrendous. Wires hanging out, taped to the frame with electrical tape. A real house burning just waiting to happen.
Most conversions look totally horrendous. Wires hanging out, taped to the frame with electrical tape. A real house burning just waiting to happen.<br /><br /><br />
Not totally horrendous, no wires hanging out but does have electrical tape - not a fire risk
Built this when I could no longer pedal my Scott e-genius, Cove Hummer with bafang motor, thumb throttle, 20mph top speed, 30+ mile range - good fun and kept me mobile for a couple of years but no longer able to use and has been sat in my house for the past 3 years.
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Something like this would be awesome on an old DH bike. I think the mid mounted motor might take a battering though.
Where does one buy bafang kit that doesn’t catch fire?
Where does one buy bafang kit that doesn’t catch fire?
I got mine from https://www.pswpower.com/. Hasn't caught fire yet.
Most conversions look totally horrendous. Wires hanging out, taped to the frame with electrical tape. A real house burning just waiting to happen
How does taping wires to a frame make it anymore prone to burning a house down than say a Scott factory build.
Mid mount motor better than a hub drive.
Could you elaborate why you think that?
I've heard a few folk say it. But the evidence of how good mrs_oab's hub motor says s otherwise.
How does taping wires to a frame make it anymore prone to burning a house down
It doesn't but you may have problems storing it while away as the cycle trade are urging caution and have said that after-market conversions are more prone to catching fire when charging. (Purely statistically driven which is what the insurance industry will go on and hotels or B&B's will wise up shortly and not allow conversions on the premises).
Something like this would be awesome on an old DH bike.
https://www.emtbforums.com/threads/bbshd-intense-951-hyper-e-bike.19718/
Mr oab, what kit has the good lady oab got?
and hotels or B&B’s will wise up shortly and not allow conversions on the premises
Most hotels and B&B owners couldn't tell a DIY ebike from a pro one from an acoustic bike to save their lives...
Companies that sell complete bikes tell you the bikes they don't sell are bad.....I am shook .
Hub motors are generally either draggy when out of battery power or lack torque...and can't use the gears to make up for the lack of torque.
But if you've no base line you'll think it's great.
I recently bought a s/h Carrera Crossfuse for £700, and swapped the rear wheel for an Alfine hubbed one. I now have the reliability of the Bosch mid-drive and the low maintenance of the Alfine 8. Perfect for commuting.
I think the mid/hub drive debate really depends on use. I fixed up a front hub drive bike for a friend. I expected it to be awful, but for commuting on a decent surface it would be fine. I went for Mid as I wanted the Alfine, and I couldn't fit a front hub drive to my previous Alfine bike as it was not QR at the front.
Commuting at a steady pace on a good surface, weight distribution and the dynamics of power delivery aren't too important. Ragging it up/down some fantastic involving singletrack, the balance of the bike and the nature of the pedal response are far more important.
Was thinking the same- at £750- £1000 the good kits are close to the cost of a complete bike albeit with cheap components.
Was thinking the same- at £750- £1000 the good kits are close to the cost of a complete bike albeit with cheap components.
My thinking when I got mine was £1200 bike + £500 kit = £1700. A new £1700 factory ebike might be more reliable in year one - but in four years time if the motor dies I know I can replace mine - while I wasn't sure what I could do with the factory one.
Switch was shite from concept. Hub drive
Vanmoof did ok with front hub drive - it wasn't the ride quality of the bike that tripped them up
Most conversions look totally horrendous. Wires hanging out, taped to the frame with electrical tape. A real house burning just waiting to happen.
Conversion kits aren't a fire risk for those reasons though - safety systems mean a short won't cause a fire. You should be able to short the battery contacts w/o issues. Things catch fire because they're cheap junk made in factories who cut corners, the product's not tested by SGS etc and it's put on the market by quick-buck makers who just shift boxes.
after-market conversions are more prone to catching fire when charging. (Purely statistically driven which is what the insurance industry will go on
I don't doubt that's right statistically but it's not an inherent risk to a conversion kit. Statistically there's going to be more untested shonky kit available as conversions from short-lived importer 'companies'. Some of the cheap d2c ebikes are unlikely to be any better. It's about a lack of valid testing and QC that's the problem.
As far as public spaces go the testing is partly the equivalent of an MOT - non MOT'd cars may be statistically most likely to break down or be in accidents? If you have a fully 3rd party tested conversion kit there's no concern, no more than any other (branded, tested) ebike or an electric car. The problem is the testing is hard to show publicly compared to a DVLA database and that's the risk for ebikes generally in public places. You can be sure there's groups who'd like to see a blanket ban come from this topic.
Conversion kits aren’t a fire risk for those reasons though – safety systems mean a short won’t cause a fire.
It all depends on the QA of the battery.
The main defense is the inbuilt battery protection circuitry which should cut off the charging when the cells are full and monitor cell temperature etc to stop overheating.
These circuits will come from many different factories, some being absolutely bomb proof, others fairly shonky. Then you have installation, have they fitted remote probes all the way down the battery pack, or just relying on the on board sensor?
This is the sort of thing that proper supply chain management and certification can easily address, but I suspect a lot of after market battery packs from China don't really bother too much about the quality of the protection board or how well it's been installed.
I really good example of the huge spread in quality for Chinese electrics is USB mains chargers. Ones from Apple etc are a masterpiece in design. Copies (with copied CE and FCC logos) are downright dangerous e.g. https://www.righto.com/2012/10/a-dozen-usb-chargers-in-lab-apple-is.html
Tongsheng TSDZ2 750w fitted to an On One Codeine 29er. Looks okay because I run 2x 6S Li-Pos in a seat pack & took a lot of time on carefully wiring it all to look neat.
TBH I probably still prefer it to my Bosch powered Haibike XDuro. It's lighter and more manoeuvrable and I can live with occasionally smacking the motor off the odd rock.
Plus it'll assist up to 29\30mph & has a throttle for when you really can't be arsed pedalling.
I'd quite like a swytch conversion for my pub/commuter bike that i leave at the station. It may not be a perfect design but it would mean that i can leave my bike and not worry too much about it being stolen with the expensive bits which i'd take with me on the train.
My Sultan with CYC Kit.
It all depends on the QA of the battery.
My point exactly - if the factory cut corners on parts or production QC / QA then it's a risk whatever it is, conversion kit, full ebike or a charger.
There's a market for cheap stuff so there's suppliers willing to make it. Cheap cells, bad electronics etc, buyer beware.
@ somafunkFull Member
Very nice, you've made a lovely job. of that.
How does taping wires to a frame make it anymore prone to burning a house down than say a Scott factory build.
Nobody said that was the cause 😕 DIY self builds are the cause. Cheapo components bought without UK testing and UK CE marks are the cause.
One is put together by some one with little idea about the do's and dont's of electronics, of which im no expert, but neither are they.
The other has been worked out. Not 'oh thats a good idea', actually worked out on paper and computer diagram. The adult approach to designing something. It's been tested by experts in their field.
.
How many factory built Scotts have we seen reported as having burnt down someones house. I think we can hazard a guess and say f all, none, nada.
What about the diy cobbled together ? Just about every other one ?. Probably.
Cheapo components bought without UK testing and UK CE marks are the cause.
I'm being pedantic I know .. the testing needed is all based on EU directives and the CE marking requirements. SGS, Bureau Veritas etc in the UK may offer some of the testing but most is done in Europe and Asia for e-bikes and the parts. The UKCA mark has been dropped, it was another post-brexit farce.
why mention the taped up wires then if its not relevant ?
we all know the battery is the problem - not all batteries are equal.
hell you take your factory ebike and the battery dies - what you going to replace it with - There's a fairly well known case in the UK where a chap replaced his stolen battery with an aftermarket unit and it did not end well.
I made sure i bought from a verifiable seller using verified cells from a recognised MFG of cells . - I replaced my original battery due to it not holding a good charge after a significant period of use - but before i recycled the original i took it apart for a look and was quite happy with what i saw.
plenty un identifiable shit for sale on ebay/amazon i wouldn't trust.
So even rocking up with your factory built Ebike is no guarantee you wont set the bnb on fire.
hell you take your factory ebike and the battery dies – what you going to replace it with – There’s a fairly well known case in the UK where a chap replaced his stolen battery with an aftermarket unit and it did not end well.
@Trail_Rat Got a link to that?
look up Cambridge Ebike fire on BBC news.
Tragic story.
why mention the taped up wires then if its not relevant ?
It was relevant to the aesthetics of some of these builds. I was using it as a descriptive, to give a mental picture.
So there was no need for you to get all defensive. It wasnt a slur on your build, just that some of them arent pretty to look at.
Tragic story.
Indeed, absolutely tragic.
hell you take your factory ebike and the battery dies – what you going to replace it with – There’s a fairly well known case in the UK where a chap replaced his stolen battery with an aftermarket unit and it did not end well.
I couldn't find any reference to the make of ebike though, so to assume it was a "factory" bike and not a conversion, shonky or otherwise, is a bit of a stretch.
I'm not casting aspirgion on the case.
I'm suggesting that even if the bike has a factory name on it you have no idea what the volatile bikes actually are as someone seeing the bike arrive on your door step.
Looks good Soma.
Yeah it was good fun at the time but it’s been sat totally unused for 3+ years so I’ll clean it up and see if my mate would like it as she doesn’t drive, if so I’ll fit a rack to it and get a couple of panniers as it’ll be handy for her shopping.
This thread reminds me, I bought a dead ebike to nick the Nexus gears and dynohub off during a lockdown. I still have the battery pack, charger and other gubbins sitting in the shed if anybody wants to come pick them up in Doncaster. It was a Kalkhoff townie type thing with notorious Impulse motor which had failed. Battery appears to charge ok and shows plenty of volts on my meter.