[Closed] Easy jet,, dented frame , how much to claim?

New frame of a similar standard, plus any parts that won't transfer across due to compatibility - e.g. front mech

I thought the baggage handlers were nothing to do with the airline, but the airport?

It's unfair but I'd be amazed if u got a penny out of them...

Good luck though...

tried and failed, you need to notify on arrival. I gave up after a few months of no joy.

Claim on your insurance?

It was all well packed up

Not well enough by the looks of it...

Do I go for the max or be reasonable?

Unless you have your own insurance you'll not get much out of the airline.

mrmo - Member

tried and failed, you need to notify on arrival. I gave up after a few months of no joy.

What, you're supposed to unpack the bikes before you leave the airport? Seriously?

Mrmo - thats what they say but as the damage is not visible until the bike ius unpacked thats not a fair condition. I am quite prepared to go to small claims.

your experience is as I thought it would be

Stumpy - the airline still have liability. You entrust your luggage to them, they subcontract the handling out is of no concern, my contract is with them

I reckon at least... hmmm... 10+ pages this will go to? 8)

TJ.

You can quote all you want on here but i'm affraid that won't help you out much.

The airline won't want to know unless you complain there and then.

Singlespeedstu - I thought that would probably be the case. How you are supposed to know that there is damage to a packed up bike I don't know.

I did start the email chain within an hour of getting off the flight.

Seeing as i am still arguing with them about being stranded in tenerife due to the ash crisis then i would say if you can handle the stress and frustration then claim if not just choose another airline next time ....

the advantage of my (crazy-heavy) rigid case was that it was bloody protective and when they finally bust the case it was very obvious even on the carousel. (bike inside was still fine)

TJ i got into an argument with a manager and yes you are meant to unpack the bike in the arrivals hall!!! The bike was still usable so i basically gave up. I just couldn't be bothered taking it the next step which would have been legal.

I would charge accordingly like airlines do.

So £5 for opening a letter from them.

£10 for sending a letter.

Then £40 if they don't respond within 7 days.
🙂

I would claim for a replacement frame and labour, all well and good saying it won't cause any problems in the future, but can you be sure of that?

Sorry if this post is of no help.

Seeing as i am still arguing with them about being stranded in tenerife due to the ash crisis then i would say if you can handle the stress and frustration then claim if not just choose another airline next time ....

Not a wind up, but how was that their fault?

I thinbk they absolve themselves of responsibility for bikes in their T&c's but I would just do a letter writing campaign followed by small claims, I reckon you will probably win somehting if you go to smaqll claims. I've got a bit of experience at both small claims and failure analysis so I could give you some pointers. email in profile.

tj - i assume you took out travel insurance. Check your policy detail - there may be more chance claiming through that than with EJ directly. I would say you are on a hiding to nothing pursuing them.
They could claim you damaged it between airport and home and there would be no way of denying that situation could have occurred.

Once you're out the airport you've got no chance. I'll be amazed if you even get anything beyond an acknowledgement of your letter/email.

Claiming on your holiday insurance is a better bet.

I always make sure my travel insurance covers such things. As the buffsome Mark just said.

What chunkynuts says right there. God you are a handsome fella. :blowskiss:

8)

kaesae does dent repair

Claim for the value of the damaged part, obvs.

Is what you're really asking whether/how you can claim? If so, here are a few points -

- You need to look at the terms and conditions.

- Easyjet might have a duty of care in respect of your bike conferred by common law. They might also have a contractual duty of care - you've paid them £37 to transport it safely, even if there's no express term in the contract saying they shouldn't damage it, there's probably an implied term (if Easyjet aren't obliged to deliver your bike safely, wtf ARE they obliged to do?).

- Easyjet's terms only allow compensation up to £800 except in exceptional circumstances (I can't remember the exact wording). I don't think the "exceptional circumstances" are defined. I'd say this provision is probably void for uncertainty - to be valid, the term's meaning should be apparent to a court on its face - and I don't think the scope of this exclusion is clear from the wording used. So you might be able to get more than £800.

- You might in any case argue that this is an unreasonable exclusion clause under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977. This is another reason why the £800 limit might not stand up in court.

- The last time I flew my bike with Easyjet I tried to find insurance for it (I don't have house insurance) but there was none. In the end I just gave them the bike and figured I'd probably be able to sue them successfully if any damage exceeded £800 and they refused to pay up. I'd do this if I were you. Who knows you could get the standard terms and conditions changed for all of us!

- Your holiday insurance will normally only cover you up to about £300 per part, if at all. Try to negotiate a solution with Easyjet and if they don't play ball take them to the small claims court. Your house insurance might cover the damage too - have you looked into that?

- Oh yeah, that "rule" about reporting damage at the airport isn't worth the paper it's written on. Is that even in their terms and conditions? I don't remember seeing it. If it is there though, I don't reckon it'll stand up in court.

But what do I know!

Not much help to you now but after experiencing the same thing I always open up my bike bag and have a quick look for any damage before i leave the airport.

Even then they can be a bit difficult to deal with though.
As I found out the second time they damaged a frame. 😐

My insurance covers the cost of my bike. Snowcard covers mine up to £3000.

11 Lost/damaged baggage
Please see Article 16 of our Terms and Conditions for Passengers and Baggage. If your baggage is damaged, lost or delayed during an easyJet flight, you must advise a member of easyJet ground handling staff at the airport of arrival immediately.
In the event of loss or damage to baggage the airline's liability is normally
limited to a maximum of 1,000 Special Drawing Rights (approximately £820).
We will not be liable in any event in respect of loss or damage to
baggage which is not permitted to be carried (see "baggage" above). Passengers are advised to take out their own insurance to cover the value of
their baggage and its contents, particularly if they are carrying important
or valuable items. Claims are dealt with up to the airline's legal limit of liability and must be supported by appropriate evidence of loss or damage. Conditions of Carriage Article 16.3
A Special Drawing Right is an international monetary unit (fixed by the International Monetary Fund), the value of which fluctuates daily and can be found in the Financial Times' guide to world currency. easyJet will not accept liability for valuable items which you are not permitted to include in your baggage (see "baggage" above). easyJet does not accept responsibility for fragile, valuable, perishable articles or baggage which is packed in damaged or unsuitable containers, nor for minor damage to the exterior of the baggage (e.g. scratches, stains, dents).
It is our policy that if your baggage is delayed for more than 24 hours on an outbound journey, you can spend up to £25 per day per person on essential items, for a maximum of three days. To claim this allowance you must write to our claims handling agents within 21 days of the relevant flight at the address provided to you by the easyJet handling agent at the airport where the delay was reported. All claims must be supported by documentary evidence of purchases made (e.g. receipts).

[url= http://www.easyjet.com/en/book/regulations.html#lostbaggage ]easyjet policy[/url]

You need to take it in a MASSIVE box gaffer taped to the max and make sure you hit every single other traveller on the way out the airport on the frankly undersized trolley provided.

You must do this whilst still drunk from the night before.

No damage would have occurred then. I know this.

I called Snowcard and they said damage to the bike by baggage handlers was only covered up to about £300.

That is very interesting that their terms and conditions recommend that you take out insurance for it. There isn't any - I spent hours trying.

This is another reason why the contractual £820 limit probably wouldn't stand up in court.

"Normally"'s the wording of the exclusion - I remember now! You can just see a judge reading that term and being, "WTF does that mean?". I know I am. I think that term is void for uncertainty.

If Easyjet are trying to say it's a discretionary compensation policy - it isn't. They have a duty of care in respect of your bike, in all likelihood, and if they harm it they probably owe you damages. The only way they could avoid liability would be with a valid exclusion clause, which I don't think this is.

jhw - Member

I called Snowcard and they said damage to the bike by baggage handlers was only covered up to about £300.

I paid extra to cover mine.

Ta chaps

Holidqay insurance - dinnae be daft. Nope. Never had any. Possible cover under my household insurance

Toys - ta for the offer. I'll let you know if I need help

Mark - I'll be bringing the bike in for an expert opinion some point.

JHW - no - I was asking what would be a reasonable claim in the opinion of the STW massive. The frame is 10 yrs old and battle scarred and the dent is minor and will have little effect on strength ( at a non expert opinion). Hence is a claim for a new frame justifiable? It cannot be repaired I doubt tho as its an ally frame.

Whats the difference in value between a 10 yr old battlescarred frame and a ten year old battle scarred frame with a minor dent and few more scars?

Given what folk are saying about how difficult it is to claim I guess I might claim the couple of thousand for a new frame and if / when they offer me a couple of hundred to shut up and go away I'll just take it.

Seriously? The woman I spoke to just said "no way Jose" - I'm sure I told her I'd pay anything...! I even posted on here asking what people normally did but nobody had any ideas.

Learn something every day.

You will get vouchers for a free flight to bristol.

This is another reason why the contractual £820 limit probably wouldn't stand up in court.

Two words you need to know and understand "Montreal Convention."

Yeah I'm fibbing 🙄
I spoke to the owner's partner, before they farmed it out to a call centre. Payed £80 for a single trip.
Been travelling with my bike on planes for the last 15 years, so I know whats what.

ennnh, 9.99 times out of 10 a dent to the frame has killed the frame. My opinion's even less expert than yours probably, but I got a tiny dent in my old frame in what seemed a non-structural part, I took it to 2 good shops and they said not to worry about it, a year later the dent is now a crack in the frame that has bred lots of other little baby cracks. Do us all a favour and sue the bastards so they get rid of the policy!

Re Snowcard yeah it sounds like I was talking to some kid who didn't understand their product. Thanks for the heads up.

bring the beast in teej.
jim will cast his eyes over it.

They dented the rear swingarm on my heckler a couple of years ago. I notified them when i got home and rebuilt it (within 24 hours), they tried to fob me off on to my insurance etc. I refused went back to them and they paid for a new back end easily enough.

thebikechain - Member
You will get vouchers for a free flight to bristol.

Don't take them up on this offer, the gorilla's at bristol airport are duty bound to destroy baggage! 🙄

Ah - hopeful news steveh

I notified them within a hour of getting off the plane - and took photos of the bike still in its packaging and as I unpacked it.

It's a ten year old well used frame, wouldn't even bother posting on here let alone claiming ffs

Dickyboy - I am surprised not more folk thought that. part of me agrees.

Woo hoo! Page two. Only eight more to go!

Well make a contentious point I can argue with then coogan! Do you think dickyboy is right?

Completely. I thought it at the very start. Just didn't want to kill a potential classic TJ arguing thread. 8)

Isn't he DTJ now?

I don't think he is right. Only time will tell if the frame is or isn't affected. So could be good for another 10 years, or fold in half in 2 weeks.

Ultimately you paid and trusted the airline to transport you bike safely and they failed to do so. It's a service you have paid for.

If you paid a courier to deliver it on your behalf you would expect them to pay up for the damage yes?

Post the photos of the dent up that might stretch the thread out a bit longer. 😉

Make sure no one wants what you've got, insure to the minimum, excess to the maximum, lifes too short to fill out forms, now get out there & ride it tangerine horror till it breaks.

On the flip side if you feel you might start to shrink in the near future then the lack of seat post adjustment might impinge upon your future use of said tandem - then take Stellios to the cleaners

its a black frame with a small dent - the pics are hardly convincing

If you paid a courier to deliver it on your behalf you would expect them to pay up for the damage yes?

You would if you took out enhanced liability insurance... the standard fee for couriering a parcel only covers you for a small amount per kilo (fedex is the example i am using). To get more you need to add 'insurance'.

They agree to get a parcel to where you ask them. If you want it to be in one piece sadly you seem to have to spend more money.

It's kinda crap.

all the best frames are black, have the shirt off his back

the pics are hardly convincing

All the more reason to post them up then. 😆

Home insurance? Mine are covered for damage away from home etc.

Alternatively get over it, accept that its a cocacola can in disguise and you didnt pack it well enough, afterall it sounds like the hub has done the damage, technically not easy jet or the baggage handlers?

easy jet paid up for a new case after mine arrived in tatters on the carousel. New case was more than the flight.

Bland - I thought I had packed it well enough - in a bike bag, layer of card and layer of EPS all round, bubble wrap and EPS between the wheel and the frame and the wheel was not in contact with that part of the frame - the eps was destroyed and the wheel must have been flexed a fair amount.

Obviously it wans't well enough but I really tried

anyway = pics
[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Can you put an arrow next to the dent as i can't see it in that picture. 😆

That's it?!?! 😐

Yup - hence I am not sure how much its worth claiming. Clearly if a major tube had been flattened I would be going for the jugular but that amount of damage? What is a fair resolution?

1280x1024?

zip zero sweet FA nil nothing bu**er all

🙄

I really can't see how you are going to prove they did that damage - are you going to be relying on character witnesses from on here?

but that amount of damage? What is a fair resolution?

The best part of **** all would seem fair for that amount of damage on a ten year old frame.

TJ - save the megabytes and pursue this no further. Fail is predicted i am afraid.

I'm sorry that your frame has been damaged, but from bitter experience I think most people are far too casual when packing their bikes for air travel. In a lot of cases it is the return flight where the damage happens. I think people are generally quite tired after their holiday and are more likely to make mistakes in packing their bike away.

Always assume the worst with baggage handlers, try not to give them an excuse.

1 Discs should never be attached to the wheel. They are an easy thing to damage by themselves when riding and if turned towards the frame in your bag/box there is potentially more metal to metal contact with the frame as well as them getting bent.

2) Pack with your cassette turned away from the frame.

3) Special attention should be taken with padding on your hubs. Wheels will generally overlap your frame and the hubs are the point of the wheel that will transfer the most force onto your frame if your bag is dropped. I have seen suitcase fall 10ft of the loading conveyor.

4) Don't try and squeeze everything in. Most bags can't take a 160mm or bigger fork. Take the fork off. Dismantle your bike as much as you can to fit into the bag/box with ease. Either take tools (any holiday worth it's salt should have at least enough workshop tools.

5) Pipe lagging is useless for modern frames. Sleeping mats from the likes of Tesco are easier to use and cheaper and if attached properly stay on to the parts you are trying to protect.

6) Dont' take risks, don't want to be too derogatory about baggage handlers, but why let them ruin your rather expensive holiday or pride and joy.

Good luck with chasing your claim

Your baggae is under the care of the airline until you collect it.

Look up the Montreal Convention in thsi regard. Do not let your Insurance agency fob you off.

I had a brand new longboard that Ryanair completely buggered.

Ryanair told me to 'whistle' and my insurance agency told me it was Ryanairs fault - neither were willing to settle.

I offered both the oppurtunity to discuss it further in court at which point the Insurers paid up.

You may wish to remind Easyjet of the Montreal Convention and see what they say?

Ben

Get a life TJ! 😆

That's it? I was expecting TJ vs. Stelios, Rumble in the Jungle style, but for that small bump?

TBH if I were an EasyJet lawyer and that got to court I'd allege it was already there, given the rest of the battle-scars you'd be hard pushed to prove it wasn't...

sunkistbob
Your baggae is under the care of the airline until you collect it.
... Montreal Convention ... Ryanair completely buggered...my insurance agency told me it was Ryanairs fault...the Insurers paid up.

Do I go for the max or be reasonable?

They must have given the bike a fair whack to do that. I think the first thing to do is to get them to accept liability, and agree to restitution.

You've got no control over the size of the claim until that happens, and then I guess the size of your claim depends on their attitude.

The break must have relaxed you pretty well. I never expected to see the word "reasonable" in one of your posts 😉

I'm struggling a bit with the sources, but I thought claims for damage or loss to baggage was regulated by the [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Convention ]Warsaw Convention[/url]. This limits claims to $20 US per kg of luggage.

Either way, I think you'd struggle to pin that damage on Easyjet amongst the other battle scars.

I'm not sure it would have happened at all if you were wearing a helmet.

Andy - but but but - there was an inch of EPS ( the same stuff helmets are made from) between any metal to metal contact - so the baggage handlers had managed to crush that completely

Well holy thread resurrection batman

Today I have an email from easy jet offering £400 in settlement. I almost feel guilty.

I told no fibs but I wouldn't allow them to wriggle either.the previous email from them stated as it was an old bike and I had no receipts they discount 50% for no receipts and 10% a year so they were going to offer me nothing. I told them despite its age it still had a value and I was prepared to accept a reasonable comprimise

happy happy joy joy

That'll be why my flight to Köln cost so much last weekend...

Thank you stuartie

You're welcome ;o)

Enjoy the lucre.

To replace the frame would be the best part of £2000

I think thats actually a reasonable resolution. Despite the battle scars that is the only dent in the frame. 20% of the renewal cost seems reasonable

I'm glad to hear someone finally got something out of the airlines. This is going to be useful for the next one of us it happens to. If more people are successful, it will mean the airlines lean on baggage services to take more care, offer their own insurance or refuse to carry bikes at all.

It could be the latter though. I don't think we make up a large enough chunk of the manifest to hurt them if we all stopped flying with bikes.

Either way, well done TJ. Given the pics, four hundred sounds like a result.