[Closed] E-bike riders

And quite right they would be too

I've only just noticed the URL of this thread - it appears the OP really was quite upset and the mods presumably stepped in quickly 😆

Did we establish whether the OP also gets upset by lycra winkers who overtake him on the fireroad climbs and bimble the downs? Though having used to be one of those, the most amusing was the grumbling as I overtook a couple of chaps on the climb about 100m after the end of the long singletrack DH - chaps who hadn't been in sight when I got to the start of the singletrack...

Generally people fitter and better at climbing are also likely to be better downhill too in fairness.

People who use electric motors instead of getting fit put themselves somewhere on the trail their skills can't cash! (This obviously doesn't include people who have always ridden and have a medical condition).

Generally people fitter and better at climbing are also likely to be better downhill too in fairness.

Like roadies getting into MTB? Can average 400w going up hill but all fingers and thumbs on a blue descent?
MTB masochists that tolerate the descents to be able to smash the climbs, sort of the opposite of what you do? Takes all sorts eh?

Never come across either on the trail. Somewhere like Cwmcarn's Twrch climb would sort out the fit but poor technical people in fairness.....

Generally people fitter and better at climbing are also likely to be better downhill too in fairness.

In fairness, that's utter bobbins. Generally*.

*Not really. It's just utter bobbins. I'm as much use as a sack of spuds going uphill, while a mate I ride with is a snake hipped mountain goat on the way up. I have to wait for him at the bottom of every descent, though. Climbing ability doesn't equal descending ability. Sometimes the two overlap, but there's really no correlation. Totally different skill set and muscle usage.

eBikes will be like those mobility scooters, originally intended as an aid to assist those with mobility problems but ultimately then taken over by the ****less and lazy.

Should of stayed on the sofa with a massive Toblerone gazing at my navel

Ooerrrr!

Captain - I get what you're saying - but it's reasonably rare on my rides to come across someone who absolutely annihilates me on a climb without being reasonably competent downhill. I'd also say it's usually a lot easier to make up more time on someone going up a hill then make up time downhill.

In this case said ebikers weren't fit enough to fully capitalise on their electric assistance to make up enough time uphill to make up for their incompetence downhill.

Why didn't you just wait 3-4 mins at the top once they'd set off though ?

It seems to me that YOU made it into a problem at least as much as they did

We waited at one point to give them a head start - set off down a section without catching them - but then they were sat chatting at the bottom so we carried on. Unless you are saying we had to wait for them to finish their chat each time and letting them go first?

They seemed to want to stop and compare helmets or something after every up / down section

so when did they hold you up?

We've now reached page three and I feel we need to up the stakes...

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After the first time this had happened.

This story encapsulates the problem for me, and why I don't personally see the need for these kinds of thing in mountain biking.

Maybe for some people who wouldn't otherwise be able to go riding there's a need.

But surely, for most people, there are natural trails to be found somewhere local..

Also, I'm guessing a bike approaching 50lbs is a bit of a handful on the way down which I don't much fancy.

yeah - you've not ridden an e-bike have you.

They seemed to want to stop and compare helmets or something after every up / down section

So, they're on a social ride with mates and fancy a chat. probably having more fun than you were too.

If you're so concerned with going on a ride and it not being ruined by people on e-bikes, having a chat, having more fun than you, being faster up a hill and going down or whatever, then go and enter an XC race...

[i]then go and enter an XC race...[/i]

Yeah, never get held up in XC races!

Generally people fitter and better at climbing are also likely to be better downhill too in fairness.

Generally people fitter and better at climbing are also likely to be better downhill too in fairness

If the said downhill is a fireroad pedal.

Generally people fitter and better at climbing are also likely to be better downhill too in fairness.

I love riding uphill and am pretty quick. I overtake most people on mountain bikes with ease when going uphill.

However, I ride a fixed gear drop bar bike so am probably the slowest person you could meet when going back down a technical downhill.

We're picking some slightly obscure things here - I can't say I've ever encountered anyone at a trail centre on a fixed gear drop bike (would you enjoy jumps and drop offs etc on that?).

I was having plenty of fun thanks - riding with a mate I don't see that often and where we were is quite fun for a quick blast around (without being amazing). Would have been better without some fat numpty practically riding over you on the way uphill then slowing you down in the fun downhill bits!

I can't say I've ever encountered anyone at a trail centre on a fixed gear drop bike (would you enjoy jumps and drop offs etc on that?).

I have chasing a friend on his it was a real blast especially when we passed skinny whippets taking up the trail with their FS bikes

Generally people fitter and better at climbing are also likely to be better downhill too in fairness.

To be fair there is probably some truth in this. Most people here would probably thrash me on the downs, whilst I'd (used to have) thrashed them on the uphill. But compared to most people riding bikes, even most people riding bikes at trail centres I'm not that slow - I've rarely had somebody catch up with me on singletrack. Sure there are some roadies on mountain bikes, but they're fairly rare.

Same here - I tend to ride mostly Welsh trail centres and don't often have any issues catching too many people or holding people up - either up or downhill.

At Cwmcarn I'll occasionally catch someone or get caught on the way up but that's it. Think I've been overtaken by one ebiker there, but because the uphill is so big I didn't see them again after that. So not an issue.

 

Generally people fitter and better at climbing are also likely to be better downhill too in fairness.

I once checked some of the quickest trail centre laps on Strava, almost inevitably top 20 laps were top twenty on the downhill segments as well as the ups. You'll find odd exceptions but that was very much the trend.

yeah - you've not ridden an e-bike have you.

And you're probably not that good at jumping.

They're shit on descents in the same way that 50lb downhill bikes from 2004 are shit. And they don't have 200mm of travel generally to make up for it.

To note, had my first run in with an e-biker hooning round a blind bend on a shared use fire road in Wharncliffe. No helmet, tracksuit bottoms, motor audibly going full gas.

They aren't doing the image of cyclists any favours.

They're shit on descents in the same way that 50lb downhill bikes from 2004 are shit.

Which ebikes have you ridden then?

Wouldn't matter if it was an e or any other bike .." hooning around the corner "
And I'm assuming you didn't actually stop to discuss wether the motor was de-restricted..so let's just assume that it wasn't.
That being the case the fact that the motor stops working at 15.5 mph ..I quite regularly top that speed without the benefit of a motor when the bike is pointing down ..so what point are you trying to make ?
Is it that you took offence at what the rider was wearing ..tracksuit bottoms & no helmet ..oh the shame !

As others have said, why not just have a drink and wait 5 or 10 minutes for them to clear off and enjoy your ride?

Maybe not an e-bike but I am sure all of us have been stuck behind somebody on the ups or downs only to be passed by them later on.

Dont look that slow down hill to me.

[url] https://www.pinkbike.com/news/coastal-crew-skeptical-video.html [/url]

The guys in Finale last week were flying downhill on the Turbo Levo Kenevo

I think the problem here and with a lot of ebike threads is some kind of perceived superiority by the haters.

Bike riding is not just for the self proclaimed elite, no one has to prove they are x fitness or y mentality.

Bike riding is not just for the self proclaimed elite, no one has to prove they are x fitness or y mentality.

As long as they prove they've 'earned' their boutique bike, right? 😉

couple of points about what gets ignored in the ebike threads
point 1:
what if an ebike isnt your only bike, and its not the bike you use all the time, but use it for a different and a differently enjoyable experience.
i have a turbo levo, a liteville 301, a mega am and a fat bike.
i ride twice a week with my mates, on the liteville. at weekends i might go on the ebike for a longer and further ride. and on sundays i ride as well.
point 2:
i had a few offs in the last two years, and its nearly always at the end of the day or at the end of a ride, i find i dont feel as knackered or as wasted on the e-bike towards the end of a ride, which is generally a good thing

An ebike [i]and[/i] a boutique bike?

You sir, are a menace to trail centre warriors everywhere.

Lester - what if an ebike isnt your only bike

my point was that everyone seems to presume that if you are on an ebike its because you have copped out, are lazy and want to "cheat", or restricted health wise. im just saying that isnt necessarily why someone is on an e bike.

Yeah sorry, I agree with you.

My vague point being it could be taken that you were justifying your credentials because you also had a normal bike as well as an ebike.

It shouldn't matter if you only have an ebike.

An amendment to 'operation wind up trail centre warriors' mentioned above. Would it piss people off more if I rode past them with the motor off?

OP sounds like every XC race I used to do.

everyone seems to presume that if you are on an ebike its because you have copped out, are lazy and want to "cheat", or restricted health wise. im just saying that isnt necessarily why someone is on an e bike.

I thought the general consensus had come around to it's because "they're fun".

I think it has but there are still some ranty people about.

The e-bike threads certainly seem to keep pulling in a crowd of regulars both for and against. Same as the the 1x and wheel size threads of old. I would think if everyone that has contributed to multiple e-bike threads, thought 'You know what, I'm just going to let this one go', these threads wouldn't be the multi page throbber fest's that they are now.

That being the case the fact that the motor stops working at 15.5 mph .

You mean the ones that haven't been chipped.

Anyway, my point is - ramblers and horse riders already hate you, your motors aren't going to do anything to improve that. In fact, they're only going to worsen relations between the different trail users.

You mean the ones that haven't been chipped.

This may come as a shock, are you sat down?

Not all ebikes have been chipped/derestricted/have 100kw motors.

I know, right?!

My vague point being it could be taken that you were justifying your credentials because you also had a normal bike as well as an ebike.

i have an e bike as well as having normal bikes 🙂

I thought the general consensus had come around to it's because "they're fun".

they are indeed great fun, they keep the trail flowing for me and extra fun miles every week

As this article points out, blasting around in pristine snow on a snowmobile is fun - that doesn't mean to say that you should go out and do it.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/do-we-really-need-e-bikes-opinion-2017.html

^^^^^ I find it hard to disagree with any of that article.

As far as trail wear and goes, I don't see any reason why e-bikes would cause any more damage than a regular bike, except for one thing - remember the point about being able to do more laps in the same amount of time? Well, that's double or triple the amount of use on that particular trail, which means that maintenance is going to be required sooner than it would have had only non-motorized bikes been used. It's not as strong of a sticking point as the potential for user conflicts and losing trail access altogether, but it's something to bear in mind nonetheless.

This seems the most pertinent point relative to my local woods. Some nice downhill trails, the use of which is managed by having to cycle/push back to the top. For most 3/4 runs is all you'd fancy given the effort required. Up and down all day until your battery runs out will make them less sustainable.
Saying that Emtb's are here now, and I wouldn't call for a ban, I just wish they'd never been invented 🙁

Yeah, I hope the E-MTB crowd get involved with trail building. Unfortunately, they don't tend to appear to be the types that would do so - because one of the main excuses for them, is that they don't have enough time to A) Get properly fit and B) spend all day shuttling up and down mini-DH tracks.

Tom ...ramblers & horseriders don't like mountain bikers full stop.( although attitudes have visibly relaxed over the last few years)
You should have been riding 20 years or so ago prior to trail centres being born ...if you wanted to see real hatred & hostility ..
I don't have an ebike ..could well fall into the bracket of someone who could or should ..but I'm not ready to give up on my " normal " bike ..just yet.
I've previously hired both a full sus Haibike and also a Fatsix and apart from anything else they allowed me to get further on technical climbs than I ever would on my own bike ( Whyte T130RS)..and left me totally knackered at the end of the day more so than my own ..the reason being that I was pushing myself AND the bike as hard as I could .
I will have an ebike one day ...they are terrific fun ..but my reasoning is to extend the amount of time I can keep riding ..and who wouldn't want to do that ?
Edit ..just seen your comment regarding trail building ..was there every session for the first five years at Kielder ..and still do an occasional shift ( but had to scale back due to knee problems ) ..you really shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush..it's pretty ignorant

You should have been riding 20 years or so ago prior to trail centres being born ...if you wanted to see real hatred & hostility ..

I was.

I don't want to see a return to that, as soon as some kid gets hit by an e-mtb or some granny gets killed at a level crossing, the story will end up in the Daily Wail and walkers and horsey riders will cotton on to what they actually are - and then the vitriol will come when they realise "motorbikes" have been using the trails with them.

As this article points out, blasting around in pristine snow on a snowmobile is fun - that doesn't mean to say that you should go out and do it.

Oh you [b]absolutely[/b] should.
It’s awesome.
I used to go to work on one every day and it was ****ing ace.

Tom ..well my apologies as I ( wrongly ) made the assumption that due to your user name the 1987 part referred to the year you were born ..which would have put you at 10 years old ..
You see how wrong it is to make assumptions .. 😳

I was riding Coed-Y-Brenin when I was about 6, before there were any properly marked trails there. 😀

I wasn't born in 87, but I'm roughly that old 😛

E-Bikes are cool, I admit - I'm just overly fearful of the Brexit voting, cyclist hating public. I do kind of want the new Commencal Meta Power thing, in a dirty....shouldn't be thinking about it kind of way. 😆

😆

Oh you absolutely should.

Like riding an ebike, it's fun, but can bring serious ire upon you if not done responsibly. There's plenty of spots here in BC that have heli skiing operations on them and snowmobiles can essentially write off a huge amount of terrain which costs the business money and pisses off the customers. There's also spots which are designated for non-motorized traffic only and that riding there will definitely put you in the bad books. Like everything, a smallish number of users acting responsibly doesnt cause any issues, but if everyone does it, or people act like dicks....

@Tom, ride Sheffield has 4500 Facebook members, about 20 turn up to trail days, I'd argue that normal riders aren't interested in trail building and using those numbers if an equal proportion of ebikers turned up it'd only be someone's arm.

I've been riding mtb's continually since 1989, I do a few thousand commuting miles each year. I'm in perfect health.

I'm buying an ebike because they look fun. OP you sound like a proper dick regardless of ebikes or not.

if an equal proportion of ebikers turned up it'd only be someone's arm.

That’s probably alright though, because according to the haters it’s only alright to ride ebike if you have a disabilty of some kind 🙄

These E bike threads never fail to throw up the haters. And the users then feel they have to justify their usage .
Which is bollocks they are legal and here so get used to them .

The Trails , Bridleways , trail centres , rights of ways. Were I thought for everybody to enjoy be they purist human powered riders. Or legal Pedalec bikes And there will be dicks in the whole spectrum of the outdoor enjoyers .

My own justification of owning a fitness compensator is
I am nearly 63 have been riding mountain bikes since they came on the scene. And before that made my own off-road bikes .
While 42 years of fitting floors and riding bikes have taken its toll on my knees I can still do decent rides on the anologue bike but when I go out with my normal group who range from 30 up to 63 the E bike means I can keep up with them and still have fun .like last Sunday we did 41 miles of the pennine bridleway with 5008 feet of climbing which on the normal bike would have meant I was wrecked for days after but with the E bike I was good for work on Monday .
And no one was inconvenienced on ups or downs

And a week ago we were doing Gisburn and shock horror saw a Youth on a spec ebike doing the Hopeline and having heaps of fun and from what we saw no one could catch him going down for sure .

Just maybe some folks need to chill out a bit you will be old one day and I am not hanging my pedals up just yet

These E bike threads never fail to throw up the haters. And the users then feel they have to justify their usage .
Which is bollocks they are legal and here so get used to them .

To be fair most of the hate comes from the pro emtb camp, they get hugely defensive over the fact that others don't share their passion.

I'm buying an ebike because they look fun. OP you sound like a proper dick regardless of ebikes or not.

You should have been riding 20 years or so ago prior to trail centres being born ...if you wanted to see real hatred & hostility ..

I was riding in the New Forest 20 years ago and still riding there now. There are just as many self entitled horse riders and selfish ramblers now as there were then. Can't say I have noticed any difference.

Unlucky!
Possibly the further north you go and because of its proximity to Scotland we have maybe had a trickle down acceptance of their access laws ..and let's face it most southerners think that Newcastle is in Scotland anyway!
😆

whats Newcastle ?

Had an ebike hit my mate this weekend at the marin. We'd waited on the trail at the side for him to pass us on a section of technical climb. He was sat on his bike the whole time, giving it the beans (not pedalling - like a proper motorbiker) and because he wasn't stood up he kept falling off / failing.

Finally got to where we were stopped on a bit of a flat, gave it full whack on the wrist (still not pedalling, still not stood up) back wheel spun out to the right, he lurched left and drove straight into my mate. Cut his leg as he forced him into some rocks at the side of the trail.

Said "sorry, this thing's just way too powerful", then quickly ****ed off. Still sat down.

They're motorbikes that attract unfit utter n00bs. Yes, there's a legitimate market for them and good and responsible users - but in my experience the main market seems to be unfit people, who don't know how to ride (because it's the first bike they've been on in 20 years).

Until my experience drastically changes I still see these motorbikes as a dangerous menace that are mostly ridden by people lacking the skills to be safe on them - either for themselves or others.

Had an ebike hit my mate this weekend at the marin

No you didn't. It was an electric motorbike.

Hmmm well yes, I can sort of see the point your making (and we have an ebike, but I'm not gonna get all defensive about it) but to be fair you can get that on any trail, there's always going to be folk that are slower/more cautious going DH.

Problem is people don’t talk to each other as much on the trails, if it was an enduro event (for example) everyone tends to be friendly and very open about their ability and will happily have a chat with a complete stranger, you’ll get folk saying, ‘do you wanna crack mate on cos I’m a slower one’ or ‘do you mind if we all set off now so we can ride down together’ AND that’s in a race/competition environment, so why can’t more people be like that on the trails?
There shouldn’t be an us and them, we are all out to enjoy the same thing, share the same trails and countryside, we just need to be more a bit more considerate of others at the same time 🙂

No you didn't. It was an electric motorbike.

I also stand by the rest of the points I made.

Chevychase. I disagree with your assumption that all Ebikes are fat unfit and unskillful riders, im 33, fit, very skilful and love riding my ebike. All these problems I read in these comments about 'proper' riders been held up by slower Ebikes or getting annoyed at been overtaken uphill by some cheating Ebikes, I feel these same people would find time to moan if it was just normal bikes, they'd just phrase it different , "I was forced off the trail by some strava hunting idiot" or "someone behind was shouting at me". Nothing or no one is gonna stop me riding mine, it's ace.

Chevychase. I disagree with your assumption that all Ebikes are fat unfit and unskillful riders

Yes, there's a legitimate market for them and good and responsible users

The problem is, as has been said, people get defensive. But it doesn't change the fact that ebikes (whilst used responsibly and skillfully by some) are an easy route in to technical riding that doesn't require the long, slow buildup of fitness and concomitant skills that non-motorised riding requires.

As a result I'm seeing increasing numbers of total n00bs on the trail that are a danger to themselves and others.

Chevy..Im confused as to what you are talking about here ..
An e-bike is something that you have to pedal to make it move ..that doesn't seem to be what you are describing

Chevy is saying he doesn't want to share with people he thinks are lesser than him.

Ive been mostly sitting in the "cheatbike camp " now for some time until a friend of a friend brought one to the Lakes this weekend ,he used to ride until life caught up on him and to say his fitness had dropped would be kind.He managed to do a full loop of the Borrowdale bash and Grizedale without hurting anyone ..posting Strava times and getting outside in the fresh air ..amazing.

Now with everything in life there are always going to be idiots who push everything and everyone to the limit, but not everyone .. besides that after having a go up Walla Crag I couldnt help laughing, they have there place just not for me yet

Until they make it absolutely impossible for people to derestrict them - which will never happen - then all ebikes are electric motorbikes IMO.

I see what you're getting at but "gave it full whack on the wrist (still not pedalling, still not stood up)" isn't a ebike unrestricted or otherwise. If it doesn't need to be pedalled it's not an ebike in the context of pedalec. I could be wrong but I doubt even an unrestricted ebike would fishtail about like that.

He was sat on his bike the whole time, giving it the beans (not pedalling - like a proper motorbiker) and because he wasn't stood up he kept falling off / failing.
Finally got to where we were stopped on a bit of a flat, gave it full whack on the wrist (still not pedalling, still not stood up) back wheel spun out to the right, he lurched left and drove straight into my mate. Cut his leg as he forced him into some rocks at the side of the trail.
Said "sorry, this thing's just way too powerful", then quickly ****ed off. Still sat down.

So. Did you actually see anybody on an ebike then?

Or just this guy.

No you didn't. It was an electric motorbike.

Then if trail centre staff can't differentiate between legal and illegal bikes, there should be a blanket ban on them at trail centres.

Then if trail centre staff can't differentiate between legal and illegal bikes, there should be a blanket ban on them at trail centres.

I would have thought if we can suss it out from a description on a forum, a trail centre staffer who is on the look out for such things could spot it out in the field.

I want one.
I can't afford one.

I'm not unfit or sick or old.

I want one.
Will definitely get one in the future to go alongside the normal bikes.

Then if trail centre staff can't differentiate between legal and illegal bikes, there should be a blanket ban on them at trail centres.

Or get more better informed staff.

tomhoward - I would have thought if we can suss it out from a description on a forum, a trail centre staffer who is on the look out for such things could spot it out in the field.