[Closed] E-Livid

I pushed almost all of the way when I went up there. Reckon I could have given it a good go on the Specialized Turbo Levo I've been riding today though. Properly ace up the hills 🙂

why not? it's just changing the challenge slightly, doesn't make your non e bike effort unworthy.

anyone got a jacob's ladder ascent vid?

e bikes are two wheeled mobility scooters .It is not cycling

Hardly surprising is it, it's a motorbike by another name, of course it's going to get up hills easy. It's like being winched up the side of a rockface and calling it climbing.

I've never even ridden one but I put all the ebike haters in the same category as roadies who hate discs. Dullards.

It`s not cycling though ,it may be good fun or a great help to those with a disability

e-livid

Why do you care? Your life must be pretty perfect if you give two hoots over what someone rides when you weren't even there!

I'll be smashing it on my Bultaco then.

e bikes are two wheeled mobility scooters .It is not cycling

e-Bikes will be the death knell for mountain biking as we know it, is that a good think, who knows?
I can see the point for leisure, commuting and to enable those with disabilities to get out and about but when fully abled riders start to use them to overcome technical and physical challenge's then we have to ask ourselves what is the point of the challenge, why not just fit jetpacks to Olympic sprinters and allow kids to use Google in exams.

E-Bikes r teh motabikes!

Daveosaurusrex +1.

why will e bikes be the death of mountainbiking? You are not going to be forbidden to ride your mountainbike anywhere you can right now

It's the future, all physical effort will be banned and anyone seen riding a bike without lectric will be put in the stocks and forced to kill kittens.

Or just quit the whining, let people make their own choices and be happy with yours. Someone riding an e bike up a hill doesn't affect how I feel about my attempts to do the same under my own steam, the same as me driving 26 miles doesn't devalue anyone who's run a marathon.

This is clearly the new wheelsize thread.

I vote an instant ban for anyone boring/stupid enough to post any of the following:

- they're just motorbikes
- it's not cycling
- they'll be the death of mountain biking
- it'll be an arms race of power
- they're only good for those with disabilities

Would clear the chaff from the forum pretty sharpish.

I can see a few problems with e-bikes

- they're just motorbikes
- it's not cycling
- they'll be the death of mountain biking
- it'll be an arms race of power
- they're only good for those with disabilities

Now what's all this chaff njee20 is talking about 🙂

**loads gun**

Instant ban, eh!

I propose an instant ban for those stifling debate on a forum in order to establish orthodoxy.

Extra homework for those that do so with a prissy flounce.

it does make you go 'pffft' to your mate when ascending upper cliff at Cannock and someone comes flying up past on an ebike.

They let me go a little bit faster uphill but you still have to put effort in. It's not like riding a motorbike at all.

[url= https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8601/29812883684_59dd1eb0ce_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8601/29812883684_59dd1eb0ce_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/MqsPDW ]Screenshot_20161019-155039[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/simondbarnes/ ]Simon Barnes[/url], on Flickr

So long as it stops at 15.5mph I've got no issue with em.

Soon as it goes over that under assistance it's a motorbike imo and in the eyes of the law and should only be ridden under the same conditions

Alot of the it's a motorbike crowd have obviously never ridden one. For a start many don't have a throttle (Inc mine) I have to pedal or it says **** you and cuts out . Then there's the amount of effort - sure I could soft pedal and it would do all the work but then my ride would be short for all the juice from thine battery would go away

I have absolutely no doubts that I can ride anywhere any time quicker than. My eapc but my eapc is for 2 things - those days after big rides where the ride too work will be painful(ie recovery and not using the car) and for going out shopping for a week's shopping or other big things and not taking the car

Couple of observations are that car already don't expect you to be doing 15.5mph in certain places ie uphill so ive seen a 200% increase in left hooks - ie it never happened to me before and twice it's happened on the eapc

Now if you were to be riding a chipped or speed pedelec as they are known....on the public highway and had such an accident . You'd be on a termite ridden wooden leg for a position.

I'm waiting for January 2017 fingers crossed we get the legislation we sorely need to differentiate between electric motorbikes (not bicycle based) s-pedelecs(which still need a 30mph speed limit (due to brake and tire and other limiting factoes) and minimum safety equipment/safety checks and importantly licence and registration imo) and then the eapc can carry on below.

Overtook a fat bloke up a hill who was on an e-bike a few months back. Had to resist making snide remarks at him.

I propose an instant ban for those stifling debate on a forum in order to establish orthodoxy.

Debate is fine, poorly researched, ill thought out knee-jerk reactions on the other hand, not so fine...

But I'm pro using words with an 'x' in them, I like words with 'x' in them so you can stay.

My wife has just bought one, her ankle is messed up, and although she gets around with a regular bike, the ebike will let her get about a lot more without using the car.

However, idiots ripping up natural trails on electric mountain bikes is selfish and is going to cause problems.

Mods: feel free to ban me for saying what I think....

So, luddites, what's better- riding up a hill, or not riding up it? Would people have a better day out if they had to push a normal bike up jacob's ladder instead of riding it on an e-bike? If these bikes are cheating, is my excellent bike also cheating because it's better than my brother's Saracen Rufftrak? Probably I'm spoiling it for myself and others.

I was going to do a century road ride the other day but there's no point because I've ridden a hundred miles on the motorbike, and that now ruins cycling for me and [i]everyone else.[/i]

I smashed the strava running record through the park this morning.
I'm not really any good at running . So to mix it with the big boys I rode my bike. I still have to put all my energy into it so it's not like I'm getting a free ride.

What is actually everyone's concern here? Ebikes? Or being beaten on Strava?

I'd like one for commuting. Plenty of other things in life to make things easier.

I also don't buy into the e-bikes do more damage.

Also saying it's cheating?? Cheating what? It just someone out on their bike

It's people passing off ebikes and what they can do as pedal bikes.

I'm pretty sure simonbarnes is trolling up there. If someone took a KOM off me using an Ebike I'd probably be miffed. Fortuitously I don't have any KOMs so I ain't bovvered.

I also can't see the point of ebike KOMs as surely depends on how much assist you're using? But to me an ebike would be a means to an end - more miles, more fun (uphill at least), that's it. So if I get one I'd use the ebike thing on strava to log miles and to avoid skewing the results for non-assist bikes but awards compared to others would be meaningless.

99% of people who say they hate evokes have never tried one and totally change their mind once they have.

When I have ridden one my heart rate has been higher than the same ride on a normal bike, because it makes you go for it up the hills rather than just "get to the top"

zippykona - Member

It's people passing off ebikes and what they can do as pedal bikes.

They are pedal bikes- they have pedals. How are they "passing off"? They're just out riding, have you run into people claiming they're [i]not [/i]riding an e-bike or something?

I’m guessing part of the fuss with e-bikes is they aren’t aimed at all cyclists, and in fairness some of the market seems to be aimed at getting people who wouldn’t get a bike on an e-bike; some people will think it’s cycling and some won’t. But because it’s the internet people feel obliged to take things too seriously, be knobs and troll each other over both sides. E-bikes are a tool to do a job, and they will appeal to some and not to others, and whilst they don’t appeal to me why would I be upset by them or those that use them. If someone wants to claim every KOM on the routes I ride on an e-bike, go for it. It’s an e-bike KOM at the end of the day; it takes nothing away from me or the effort I make in my own riding. I currently have no interest in owning one, my boring interest is pedalling road bikes as fast as my legs will take me. But I am interested that they open up a range of opportunities’ to people to have more fun in their lives, and in that think they are a great thing. What form of transport you use doesn’t make you a dickhead, it’s how you act on and off that form of transport that decides that.

And sadly no, I have never cleaned the ladder ascent, but I really have tried!!

Also saying it's cheating?? Cheating what? It just someone out on their bike

I know some people say you get just a good a workout from an e-bike as you go much faster/further... I don't really buy that though for the vast majority of users 🙂 No healthy person is getting an e-bike because they've reached the limit of how far & fast they can go on their un-assisted bike!

They let me go a little bit faster uphill but you still have to put effort in. It's not like riding a motorbike at all.

Haha, did you realise that's me in second?

Edit: [url= https://www.strava.com/segments/781730 ]I see you made it private[/url], attaboy, my KOM remains intact! 😉

chilled76 - Member

Overtook a fat bloke up a hill who was on an e-bike a few months back. Had to resist making snide remarks at him.
Posted 1 hour ago # Report-Post

Is this missing a 😉 ?? Not quite representing your username if not!!

WGAS if the "fat bloke" was using an e-bike, he's on a bike perhaps trying to become less "fat", good for him.

Everyone is missing the point, why would you ride up Jacobs? Its far better to come down it.

This is clearly the new wheelsize thread.

I vote an instant ban for anyone boring/stupid enough to post any of the following:

- they're just motorbikes
- it's not cycling
- they'll be the death of mountain biking
- it'll be an arms race of power
- they're only good for those with disabilities

Would clear the chaff from the forum pretty sharpish.

This is depressing because it means that after the pain of all the moronic discussion they'll become standard.

The ebike haterz are really quite boring. So, to clear it up here's where we stand.

If you hate legal ebikes you're wrong. You are allowed an opinion on it, but you're wrong. Like being religious, denying climate change or supporting Brexit (which I suspect you did). Because we live in a civilised society you are allowed your wrong opinion.

Fortunately, also because we live in a civilised society, people who have an ebike that fits the law can carry on using them, which makes no difference to anyone else whatsoever.

I can see me commuting on one in the next 10 years, no probs.

I know some people say you get just a good a workout from an e-bike as you go much faster/further... I don't really buy that though for the vast majority of users No healthy person is getting an e-bike because they've reached the limit of how far & fast they can go on their un-assisted bike!

Have you ridden one?

Sure, if you bimble along on auto pilot it's really not very challenging, which is much like riding a normal bike in that respect.

I have tried a few - around a reasonable sized loop I usually ride, only it was way quicker overall & I came back more f*cked than usual, because I rode round as if my hair was on fire, like a madman.

I make no excuses, I really enjoyed it. Great fun.

chilled76 - Member
Overtook a fat bloke up a hill who was on an e-bike a few months back. Had to resist making snide remarks at him.
Posted 1 hour ago # Report-Post

Why? you don't know why he has an ebike. Might be health reasons.

Sure, if you bimble along on auto pilot it's really not very challenging, which is much like riding a normal bike in that respect.

I have tried a few - around a reasonable sized loop I usually ride, only it was way quicker overall & I came back more f*cked than usual, because I rode round as if my hair was on fire, like a madman.

Overtook a fat bloke up a hill who was on an e-bike a few months back. Had to resist making snide remarks at him.

Lovely. I'll make I make snide remarks if I ever pass you on a hill!

why would you ride up Jacobs? Its far better to come down it

When you can power up on an ebike you may find more ascents become way more fun than they were. I can see trail centre routes getting far more interesting when they don't feel so compelled to use wide tracks to gain height. Just imagine the whole circuit being as much fun as only the downhill bits were under human power

E bikes just let you reach your destination quicker. If time is that important get up earlier.

E bikes just let you reach your destination quicker. If time is that important get up earlier.

Not sure if serious etc etc

What if you don't have a destination? What if you have x hours to ride? Going faster means you go further/can see more/ride more trails, whatever.

I spoke to a guy from the shop at the Grizedale enduro a few weeks back, he was telling me he's bought a Mondraker e bike for basically firing up the fire road climbs and descending the infinite numbers of cracking descents there, reckons he can easily double his descents in an evening.

Can someone explain why that's not fun?.

[quote=Nobeerinthefridge said]I spoke to a guy from the shop at the Grizedale enduro a few weeks back, he was telling me he's bought a Mondraker e bike for basically firing up the fire road climbs and descending the infinite numbers of cracking descents there, reckons he can easily double his descents in an evening.
Can someone explain why that's not fun?.

It spoils my fun.

I don't know how, since another human being riding a bike somewhere else has no effect on me whatsoever, but it does.

😉

No hate no rant In my opinion its a moped and should have the same restrictions.

zippykona - Member

E bikes just let you reach your destination quicker.

I started in a car park in innerleithen, did 5 runs at the golfy, and ended up back at the car. I could have got to my destination quicker just by never leaving.

In my opinion its a moped

See my "you are entitled to your opinion but you are wrong" post. Fortunately the law doesn't agree with you. You are wrong.

njee20, I thought it was. Still gives you a new target to aim for:)

Yes and fully except that, but wait for the ramblers to get onto it the first rambler with an Ebike ramned up his arss could change all.

Who would ram their ebike into a rambler?

Are lots of people ramming their non-ebikes into ramblers? I've never seen this happen. Are ebikes not blessed with brakes, or riders with eyes or judgement? It can't be their speed that's a problem, since a normal bike will go well above 15.5mph down a hill anyway, and they're not ploughing into ramblers left, right and centre, are they?

Also, you mean accept, not except. And arse. And there's a full stop and capital letter missing.

@ munrobiker - don't you see? e-bikes open up the countryside to those not possessing the physical prowess to ride normal bikes there. As they've not been exposed to countryside before they won't know what to do when they encounter ramblers in the same way that "we" do. Hence the riding into ramblers comment.....

Or, it's a comment that's quite (very) 😕 as per your first suspicion...!

njee20, I thought it was. Still gives you a new target to aim for:)

🙂
As I set my time in the halcyon days of 2010 fitness levels I think it's a fair way off!

Interesting to note that 4th and 5th on that segment (times done yesterday) were both on ebikes according to their rides.

Got no problem with e assist the problem will come when we get lumped in with illegal electric motorbikes and their misuse - you only have to look at the restrictions placed on legal offroading in the past to see what might happen 🙁

I plan to hire an ebike for our Christmas ride, what disability do I need to have to make it socially acceptable to some of you lot?

here's my concern, it's only small, i won't mind if it's ignored.

some of us are involved, to a lesser or greater degree, in working for improved mtb-access, to places like the Peak district. A large and vital part of this involves reassuring land-managers and 'stake-holders' (ramblers representatives) that mtb'ers aren't the army of the apocalypse.

now, it might be more or less self-evident to us as mountainbikers that e-bikes aren't weapons of mass destruction; but i still find myself rehearsing what i'll say at some meeting in my near future:

land-manager: we're keen to open this footpath as a concessionary bridleway, the National Trust tell us good things about their experience with a similar trial, but we're keen to maintain the quiet, peaceful atmosphere of the estate.

Rambler-rep: what about all these new mountain-bikes with motors?

Land-manager: sorry, what!?

me: ...er, well, y'see... (insert rehearsed speach here)

we're going to have to explain these things to people who are already suspicious of, even antagonistic towards, bikes [i]without[/i] motors.

it won't be easy, or maybe it will, i hope so (but it won't hurt for me to have a calm reasoned case, ready to present)

(fwiw, i'm surveying the ground, before opening negotiations for an e-commuter with the long-haired financial director)

Explain to them it's going to happen with or without permission from them and in the grand scheme of things it's pretty self evident no one really cares what land managers think about access

that's probably more of a fall-back argument... in case we can't reassure them with a calm-reassuring 'plan-A'?

It's certainly a funny business. The sooner e-bikers have their own lame magazines full of articles describing the magical sound of the power-assist kicking in on a tough climb, and nerdulent web-forums where they can compare battery life and have incredibly strong opinions on whether the latest Bosch motor is the new Audi Quattro, the happier everyone will be I suspect.

🙂

Perhaps explain that they are like two-wheeled mobility scooters, and mention the capped top speed - which means the main benefit is on climbs?

The ramblers might even end up buying them.

Explain to them that they're limited in power, so can't do much more erosion than a normal bike, that they still require effort to use, so there's not going to be thousands of people on them, that they're limited in speed so they can't go faster than a normal bike downhill and are not going to be going particularly fast uphill. Just use the arguments that are blatantly obvious.

exactly, the case is there, but it will need to be made, and it's not unknown for people to ignore reasonable cases...

Don't forget to mention the naughty chaps who might delimit the power delivery

They'll love that bit and open up all those lovely pieces of singletrack... 🙂

@munrobiker

I am not against Ebikes or the riders but I do for-see trouble ahead.

Don't forget to mention the naughty chaps who might delimit the power delivery

Which would be illegal use of any trails that were opened up - so you should also mention that people might use motorbikes, quad bikes and sherman tanks.

Why though? They pose no threat to anyone. I don't know where this idea comes from that they'll all be tearing around at breakneck speeds, roosting around shredding trails to pieces and crashing into ramblers all over the shop. They're just bikes, they'll be ridden like bikes are now, but a bit faster uphill, which isn't a problem.

I used to have a country pub the ramblers would hold meetings lots of ex barrister's school heads, solicitors, councilors,military types very militant about the trails the access and the protection there of.

The ebike haterz are really quite boring. So, to clear it up here's where we stand.

If you hate legal ebikes you're wrong. You are allowed an opinion on it, but you're wrong. Like being religious, denying climate change or supporting Brexit (which I suspect you did). Because we live in a civilised society you are allowed your wrong opinion.

Fortunately, also because we live in a civilised society, people who have an ebike that fits the law can carry on using them, which makes no difference to anyone else whatsoever.

So you've decided we're wrong, but you'll let us have our little ol' opinions. Why thank you.

Well, I think you're wrong, but in the same magnanimous spirit I'll let let you hold on to your misguided views.

Can we not have two forums? One for the luddites amongst us who prefer bikes to be human powered, and one for the moped supporters.

[i]One for the luddites amongst us who prefer bikes to be human powered, and one for the moped supporters.[/i]

or maybe a middle ground where some people have bikes that assist their human power and some that don't but all they accept that every one rides for a different reason and it's all bikes so fill your boots?

Ok 3 forums then 😉

Why though? They pose no threat to anyone. I don't know where this idea comes from that they'll all be tearing around at breakneck speeds, roosting around shredding trails to pieces and crashing into ramblers all over the shop. They're just bikes, they'll be ridden like bikes are now, but a bit faster uphill, which isn't a problem.

That's a rather over-simplified take on things....or perhaps it's just convenient for you?

Simple truth is the more power you stick through the rear wheel the more potential you have to create damage. If you doubt that have a look at the roost a dirt bike can throw out......& there are without doubt some pretty meaty e-bikes around..

Personally, I've nothing against an e-bike as long as the rider isn't being a d1ck, but if you're trashing a fragile trail by giving it the beans on your e-bike & leaving it in a worse state for others that follow, you may find yourself qualifying for said d1ck status (IMHO)..

Personally, I've nothing against an e-bike as long as the rider isn't being a d1ck, but if you're trashing a fragile trail by giving it the beans on your e-bike & leaving it in a worse state for others that follow, you may find yourself qualifying for said d1ck status (IMHO)..

Should super fast pinners who slash corners & roost berms not be allowed to ride too fast for fear of leaving a trail in a worse state than before too?

What about the squiddies who brake hard in stupid places & cause braking bumps everywhere? I propose they be banned as well.

he didn't say anything about 'banning' that was you.

so if you'll allow me to rephrase your post:

Should super fast pinners who slash corners & roost berms... think about slowing down a bit and taking a bit more care on/of a shared trail?

yeah, maybe they should, it wouldn't hurt.

Should super fast pinners who slash corners & roost berms not be allowed to ride too fast for fear of leaving a trail in a worse state than before too?

What about the squiddies who brake hard in stupid places & cause braking bumps everywhere? I propose they be banned as well.

Wow.

Talk about missing the point.

Which was this: "Simple truth is the more power you stick through the rear wheel the more potential you have to create damage. If you doubt that have a look at the roost a dirt bike can throw out......& there are without doubt some pretty meaty e-bikes around.."

Our trails are mostly pretty fragile things, except trail centres, you take something out with more power than a bog standard bike you have the potential to cause more damage. What you have highlighted is the fact that folks:

A. Can't see that.
B. Don't care.
C. Haven't realised.

It's about responsible trail use & we all have a collective responsibility to ensure we don't screw the pooch & F up access. Advocacy isn't an easy game to play as the other side mostly don't want us around in the first place - so lets be grown up & try to remember that.

By all means ride whatever kind of MTB you like but do please try to do it in a way that isn't going to mess up things up for whoever comes along next..

Is that really too much to ask?

Simple truth is the more power you stick through the rear wheel the more potential you have to create damage. If you doubt that have a look at the roost a dirt bike can throw out......& there are without doubt some pretty meaty e-bikes around..

A KTM electric dirt bike has 11,000 watts. An e-bike has 250, plus whatever the rider can do. That's not even vaguely comparable in terms of damage.

Edit- just seen that the KTM electric bikes are now up to 16,000 watts.