[Closed] e-folding-commuter-track world

I expect theres many these days, with literally dozens and dozens of new 'E-Bike' companies starting up over the last couple of years, and more established ebike companies from the continent opening markets in the UK.

I think an important factor is what is your budget. Know that and we can move on to the next step.

Leaving a bike at the station is pointless, even a cheap hack and you’re still walking home sooner or later

Why?

No idea about folding e bikes apart from there seems to be a lot of crap around. Does the distance justify e?

No experience of folding e-bikes, but take care don’t get hernia or worsen knee by heaving a folded ebike around/up/down steps etc. I’ve owned a few regular mid-range 20” folders and they were heavy enough without the extra battery and motor, discs…

I used a folding ebike for a train commute for a couple of years and it worked brilliantly as a method of transport. My station is 3 miles away (hilly) and at the other side I rode 2 - 5 miles to the office. I have a cheap Halford carrerra Cross city that was mostly reliable, the only issue was needing to rebuild the rear wheel with higher quality spokes.

Using an ebike prevented me getting sweaty and I felt safer riding in Central London with the extra speed. Things to consider... A folding ebike is heavy, so you might want to use lifts instead of stairs and make sure it can be wheeled along when folded. The brakes take a hammering, either get disc brakes or factor in rim replacement. Prepare to feel really smug for having a life cheating transport device!

I think if I were buying a folding ebike again I'd consider picking up a disc braked dahon bike and fitting an aftermarket DIY hub or central drive kit and a small/light battery that can only just last the distance. Or buy a premium bike like Gocycle. The Carrera was a great option to prove it worked for my commute.

Brompton Electric would be my choice if i wasn't 6'3" and 14 stone. They're £3k, but you see new or new other on ebay shops for under £2500

They're probably the best of the folding Ebikes that folds easily,small and holds its price really well when you eventually sell it.

I've used one a few times - my dad bought one pre lockdown for commuting and I've borrowed it here and there for getting to meetings in Birmingham, Manchester and London by train instead of driving.

From my experience:

I wouldn't want to be hefting it on and off a train often, it was perfect for the every now and again I used it for mind but it weighs far too much to be a nice thing to lift or fold.
Being allowed to take it on a train does not equal being able to take it on a train. At peak time there's no room to get on my local services let alone take a folding bike. (eg getting to a 9am meeting in Manchester would mean having to drive as I'd not get the bike on anything later than a 5.30am train from Leeds and there's no connecting service that early)
It isn't faster per se, you will get less sweaty for a given speed but you won't really be quicker unless you're limiting your effort so you don't get sweaty.
A reasonable distance is almost practical in work clobber on an e bike.
Wheel size will bother you for about 5 minutes, riding position always felt weird (comfy but not normal).
As above, get disc brakes.
Folding pedals are awful.
Is generally easier to store both at home and on site, very few places mind you bringing one into the building which with a full size bike is much more trouble. As a result somewhere to lock up a bike isn't a significant concern when going to site.

Is skipping the train and ebiking the whole way an option? You'll get a good ebike for the price of a six month rail ticket, get a spare charger for the office.

Given its walking distance from the station a decent comfy pair of shoes will be a lot cheaper, even if that's ones for getting to the office then changing for smart shoes once there.

@dyna-ti I'm 6'3 and ride a brompton with a telescopic seatpost. I'm under 13 stone these days but can't see why 14 stone would be a problem

@Solamander
That's all brilliant stuff... exactly what I was after.
I already felt disc brakes were something I'd find hard to live without.
I guess I'm where you were with the proof of concept ... and I guess at the back of my mind is I'd rather have a different contract that pays a lot less and doesn't include commuting/London.

I think if I were buying a folding ebike again I’d consider picking up a disc braked dahon bike and fitting an aftermarket DIY hub or central drive kit and a small/light battery that can only just last the distance.

Hmm... that actually sounds fun as well....

dyna-ti

I think an important factor is what is your budget. Know that and we can move on to the next step.

I could theoretically spend Brompton money ... like if I had a REALLY good reason and REALLY needed to but I don't want to as I see this as making something less unpleasant rather than something I'd enjoy and ultimately the money would come off something else I'd enjoy, be that MTB stuff or heating the house etc.

I guess ultimately I'm looking at the balance of £££ vs unpleasantness and anyway I look at it I find London unpleasant and the train unpleasant.

cynic-al

Leaving a bike at the station is pointless, even a cheap hack and you’re still walking home sooner or later ..
Why?

It will just be stolen or maliciously damaged. There is nothing to lock the bikes to that isn't specifically designed to be easy to cut through and hence easy to repair afterwards and when they can't be bothered stealing a bike they just kick the wheels in. Even if its a complete hack it's not nice getting off the train to then have a stolen/wrecked bike.

No idea about folding e bikes apart from there seems to be a lot of crap around. Does the distance justify e?

No, not really but my knee does. It's a lottery as to if it screws up and I'm unable to ride/in-pain for a week or not. It's not quite a lottery, its seated pedalling on climbs and I've more or less managed it by either quitting a ride and rest but I won't be able to do that commuting and the hill is reasonably steep. It's fairly OK with out of the saddle pedalling but I'd rather not turn up dripping in sweat. When it gets bad I don't sleep much as I get shooting pains keep me awake.

p7heaven

I’ve owned a few regular mid-range 20” folders and they were heavy enough without the extra battery and motor, discs…

Just merging that with Solamander

A folding ebike is heavy, so you might want to use lifts instead of stairs and make sure it can be wheeled along when folded.

Yeah ... I guess yesterday (first time back in London in a LONG time) I was outside rush hour and I feel like at that time it's not a big deal to carry up and down a set of steps BUT I also know at rush hour carrying a suitcase is a nightmare just due to the press of humanity all of which seem to be in a rush and head down so I might have to remove the rose tinted specs a bit.

BUT I also know at rush hour carrying a suitcase is a nightmare just due to the press of humanity all of which seem to be in a rush and head down so I might have to remove the rose tinted specs a bit.

It's also lighter than an efolder and designed at least with a nod toward being carried.

anyway I look at it I find London unpleasant and the train unpleasant.

How far are you going to be traveling by train, for me this would absolutely be making me think "would an emtb, spare battery and get up a bit earlier work?" obviously if it's Exeter to London that's not viable, Epsom might be though. If it is, the saving on the train will make a nice big dent in a very nice emtb which means more ultimately the money would come off something else I’d enjoy, be that MTB stuff or heating the house etc.

Go Cycle G4 would be my choice.

@Solamander
That’s all brilliant stuff… exactly what I was after.

I'm glad I could help! Personally I would avoid the Brompton e-bike, they are front wheel drive and that's pretty dangerous on icy roads. Even my rear driven 'cheap' folder has spun up the wheel and dumped me on the floor in winter, I can't begin to imagine how bad a front wheel driven bike would be. Are you contracting? You can claim the bike as a business expense!

Just fyi - as I’m vaguely looking at a holiday bike that folds etc etc car/into house. Found this

https://www.leisureoutlet.com/221107-tern-vektron-q9-9-speed-disc-electric-folding-bike-35-70mi-range?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhc_Aor7I9wIVDpntCh0P0ADhEAQYBiABEgIHZPD_BwE

Bosch motor so rebuildable, spares etc available.

You can claim the bike as a business expense!

And lunches!

dangeourbrain

How far are you going to be traveling by train, for me this would absolutely be making me think “would an emtb, spare battery and get up a bit earlier work?” obviously if it’s Exeter to London that’s not viable, Epsom might be though. If it is, the saving on the train will make a nice big dent in a very nice emtb which means more ultimately the money would come off something else I’d enjoy, be that MTB stuff or heating the house etc.

Good points, especially how the saving on trains would pay.. but too far really (being realistic)
and adding distance by avoiding suicide roads/roundabouts)..

The cycle to the office would be minimum 30 miles each way before trying to go through the parks etc - so on one hand and the hard spoiler is I couldn't trust my knee to do that distance everyday (EEB or not) but even if I could it would be somewhere between impossible and very reluctant to then jump on a real bike when I got home which TBH is most of my motivation to making it through the day anyway.

towser

Just fyi – as I’m vaguely looking at a holiday bike that folds etc etc car/into house. Found this

https://www.leisureoutlet.com/221107-tern-vektron-q9-9-speed-disc-electric-folding-bike-35-70mi-range?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhc_Aor7I9wIVDpntCh0P0ADhEAQYBiABEgIHZPD_BwE

Wow, that's actually the dogs dangly bits... at least in 20" folding EEB's... (or the 10sp) but its gotta to weigh A LOT with the 400wH and Bosch middrive.
It's not for me (can't justify £3300) and don't need that range but its pretty impressive and for someone for whom it would be a main bike to do shopping/commute etc. and fold away

Bosch motor so rebuildable, spares etc available.

Not really... or at least only as controlled by Bosch. So be aware... in warranty replacement is apparently very good but ALWAYS involves sending in the faulty motor to prevent any spares getting onto the market.

I understand there is no way on earth you can get a replacement PCB for a Bosch motor short of buying a new motor to scrap or a broken one and hope the PCB is fine so they are currently ticking financial time bombs once the warranty period ends.

(I doubt they can continue like that in the EU much longer though as they will end up in court and once that happens there should be a grey market in the UK or they might just decide they are going to have to sell spares anyway as we/US etc. will get them from Europe but be aware of this if you are planning on being able to ride it years)

From another angle I think hub motors for less problems on ‘final mile’ options. My immediate thought was a Tern or Dahon folder and a Swytch (sp?)kit, as this is a configuration of consider myself in the recent past before my injury improved. Happy right now not to need assistance but I can see how it would be useful to not arrive sweaty.

OP maybe have a look at the Carbo Model X? I don’t think it’s as light as the (electric) Hummingbird, but is certainly one of the lightweight e-folders

Hi Steve,

Re rebuildable, I had some features with a shimano motor and am now grumpy about the rebuildability of motors as I tend to be a long term look after it and maintain it type owner, see https://www.ebikemotorcentre.com/repair-overhaul-upgrades/ see the paragraph at the top left, I should probably have said something like the Bosch motor seems to be about as rebuildable as you can get(*with ebike motors) and at least there are independent dealers who are becoming specialists in the field and can potentially help. Maybe we’ll get lucky and just like there are breakers yards for cars/motorbikes etc etc maybe a business will develop with knackered e motors so the unobtainable parts might be gettable secondhand. I guess the other option would be a cheap hub motor so that disposability was financially acceptable, just fyi whoosh bikes do kits https://wooshbikes.co.uk/. And they were very helpful to me when I was investigating.

Cheers

p7heaven

as this is a configuration of consider myself in the recent past before my injury improved. Happy right now not to need assistance but I can see how it would be useful to not arrive sweaty.

It's not just sweaty really as I just can't trust my knee ... once it starts playing up it seems to escalate pretty quickly, something I can control when riding for leisure but not if I'm dependent on it for getting to work.

I have an eMTB (from my brother) but I mostly only use it when my knee is a bit "twingy" after pushing it but I've also due to my advancing years developed a modicum of wisdom so I've also abandoned rides rather than risk making it worse or if doing 2 rides in a day (I seem to get into double days meeting 2 groups of people) I'll do the first one on a real bike and second on the EEB.

So for me the "risk" I see is relying on the bike. If I can't walk or ride which is what happens if I keep pushing it the option is a taxi and as much rest/anti-inflammation as I can. That's achievable (if not great) working from home but I don't really see it getting rest if I'm going in.

towser

I guess the other option would be a cheap hub motor so that disposability was financially acceptable, just fyi whoosh bikes do kits https://wooshbikes.co.uk/.

Yeah, I guess its all parts for me. Partly the financial and partly the disposable/environmental ... I tend to keep bikes a long time and the idea of a whole bike being "disposable" doesn't sit well.

I'm optimistic that EU right to repair legislation will spill over though and longer term it isn't practical to prevent us buying spares in the UK.

^ ^ Sorry OP I should’ve been more clear - I mean I can still see it being useful for me not to arrive sweaty (as my injury has improved). The reason I first considered an electric folder was because of an existing injury which was constantly being re-injured by regular/unassisted cycling. I needed to commute 12 final miles from a rail station, but could only apply extra force (ie when climbing) if standing on pedals/out of the saddle. I view e-assist bikes as excellent ability-aids (as long as they’re working - I’d hate to be stranded and have to pedal or push that lump!)

As long as the commute isn’t too far then one upside these days is that e-bikes are getting lighter. The Carbo Model X (for instance) has 250W motor provides 45 Nm of torque and about 65km of range from 250W motor + 36v battery hidden in a seatpost.

But how many need 65km for ‘last miles’?

Swytch offer a new phablet sized power-pack weighing 1.5lb which will give you around 15 km and charges in an hour.

For my money the next size up seems about right for most UK city-commute/last mile (especially where hills may be involved) ie

"slightly larger" power pack that weighs in at 1.1 kg (2.4 lb) and offers up to 30 km (17 miles) of per-charge range.

https://newatlas.com/bicycles/swytch-2022-ebike-conversion-kit-air-battery/

PS

new Swytch kit = pre-order and at least a 3-4 month wait away, hence please ignore my ramblings. Am actually tempted at the current 60% off (but don’t currently have £500-600 quids in bike budget so - hole in pocket foiled again!)

p7eaven

I needed to commute 12 final miles from a rail station, but could only apply extra force (ie when climbing) if standing on pedals/out of the saddle. I view e-assist bikes as excellent ability-aids (as long as they’re working – I’d hate to be stranded and have to pedal or push that lump!)

I'm exactly the same ... standing pedalling seem OK (not guaranteed but WAY more OK) but obviously hitting moderate hills standing the whole time would doubtless leave me sweaty .. but I could live with that I suppose if it wasn't for the knee.

Obviously I don't know about you but for me once mine gets inflamed even walking isn't great.. though reality wise I'm more concerned about making it worse. TBH I tend to stop now before it gets really bad, it's not like I couldn't pedal if I had to but I'd need to be being chased by a tiger or something. Even bucking out I've had more than a few nights where it's been shooting pains up and down and I've not slept so it's often me being super cautious but with reason (I think).

TBH its WAY WAY better than it was 6-8mo ago... but its been quite gradual and I'm a little scared of pushing it back.

I completely agree on "last mile" .. TBH the Tern Vektron linked by towser is really quite nice if you wanted the range on a folding bike (e.g. in a camper) but as you say my requirements are a way lower range.

I've always dismissed switch ads largely due to lack of interest but they do look like something would meet my use case very well.
I think in part because I've always bought bikes primarily for leisure/pleasure, even ones I've used for commuting so it's a different mindset to think about them as a utility tool for me.

@stevextc

Hope you’re knee issue is continuing to improve. IME (if affordable) a decent sports injury specialist/physio intervention can save years of discomfort/agony/joint function. ymmv

ARCC is another folder e-conversion system. Not sure how universal it is, might be worth giving them a shout? I like that it uses regular Bosch 4ah 36v batteries. Have seen these batteries for £137 which is some saving on a Swytch battery at £500 😳

@stevextc we have a Tern Vectron, 9 speed. It rides like a full size bike, it carries large loads, it folds up easily. But, it’s VERY heavy. I’ve seen some GoCycle folders and they look absolutely excellent.. I’ve no experience of them though!
Hope this helps.

Fully Charged have some Go Cycles on sale:

https://www.fullycharged.com/e-bikes/bike-type/discounted-ebikes

look to ben at kinetics and see what he does with bromptons. Mid drive e bike kits, disc brakes, more gears. front wheel e kit on a brompton? No thanks

https://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/folding-bikes/brompton/electric-brompton/

Brompton's are the best value bikes we've owned mile for mile. Second hand values are insane so, especially if you can buy one on bike to work, you'll recover a lot more of the cost in future over anything else.

I've only briefly ridden the official brommie but the ARCC version is really good (I've ridden both that and their own regular wheeled bike). using Bosch batteries seems to make a huge amount of sense, especially for a commuter where mileage is likely to be low - you can use the smallest lightest battery you need to and charge daily (and keep extras).

I've seen a plausible argument that hub motors make sense on utility bikes as many of the benefits you get from a central motor on an mtb don't matter so much. The ARCC definitely wasn't as refined in cutting in and out as my shimano mid motor e bike but you don't ride a commuter bike in the same way. And hub motors put a lot less wear on the drivetrain. With a Brompton you absolutely should be carrying most of your luggage on the front block carrier which puts a decent amount of weight on the front wheel at all times.

You've not said how far you're going to be riding it which might make a difference.

Even a normal Brompton is a heavy lump to carry - you push or drag it as much as possible - but an e Brompton it going to be a significant weight. maybe factor in using the station lifts?

no bike is great on icy roads but the number of days you actually have to deal with them is in single figures most years and maybe just don't ride those days. on any icy day you kind of want to avoid cornering under power so I'm not sure it makes much difference wether which wheel is being driven

Thanks for all the above.
My contract didn't get signed yet so I'm holding fire but still looking