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Reading a thread on MTBR.com and it's astounding to me how many people are against E-bikes.
"if my mate got one he wouldn't be welcome on our rides" etc is a common theme here.
Which just totally astounds me. I'd have no issues at all with it, in some ways i'd welcome it as a training opportunity to push myself harder trying to chase them on the hills.
Would it bother you ?
Nope. Turbo a go go for me
not in the slightest, more opportunity to rip the p*ss. unless medical reason then its all good!
Depends if they poke fun at the non-ebikers for not keeping up.
TurnerGuy - Member
Depends if they poke fun at the non-ebikers for not keeping up.
In my circle of friends that's a given though, in the same way i poke fun at my mate who is 15 years older than me and struggling to keep up "come on fat boy, put some effort in" is common 🙂
As long as they also carry a tow rope...
I don't think I know anyone who is stupid enough to refuse to ride with an e-bike.
Of course I'd ride. One of our group has been considering one for health reasons, so if it allows him to get out more then I'm all for it.
i ride with my mate who has one, he wouldn't be riding without it due to health issues so i'm all for it. i don't however try to keep up with him on steep climbs!
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A couple of friends borrowed e-bikes to try out and brought them along for a group ride. They hated it because they got too cold riding at the same speed as real bikes. Never used them again.
I think the hatred in certain areas of the US stems from the potential threat to mtb access for sensitive areas. I don't know the detail, nor do I know if it's simply forum people blowing it out of proportion, but it is a regularly stated reason for being against ebikes.
Wouldn't bother me although as above I wouldn't be trying to keep up on the climbs!
A ride's a ride and a mate's a mate. Bike choice has no bearing on either.
I did a [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/e-bike-what-would-you-do ]What would you do..[/url] thread, as I was riding with 3 guys all with E-bikes, oh the threads really helpful main suggestion was "get new m8's". After a year or so of struggling to keep up, I've just bought a one in the sales, and it's fricken ace. I now understand they have been bloody patient with me, as I went out with a very very fit friend and demolished him without even resorting to the top mode. I love the damned thing (pity it was faulty out of the box & has been with CRC longer than me..) and in these condition it actually makes riding fun. Last nights 'manual ride' was bloody awful and no fun in the slightest, so I can't wait to get it back. That said they're far from perfect and I won't be getting rid of my manual bikes, or purely riding the e-bike.
PS: have you seen the new Specialised Kenevo.. that's one awesome bike
(he swaps onto it 4 minutes in)
Would I ride with them? Yes, of course.
Would I royally take the Michael for them needing to ride a moped on a bike ride (assuming they're not doing it for underlying health issues)? Similarly, yes, of course.
Would I actually mean the ribbing above? No, but it's mates and mates get the Michael taken out of them.
Would I (secretly) be using it as an excuse to try and get mega-fit in the hope of keeping up with them? Yes, that's a given.
And finally, would I plan either long rides so they run out of battery or rides with lots of sections I can do 15mph+ on them? Yes, that as well.
"if my mate got one he wouldn't be welcome on our rides"
😆 what would they do about it? presumably the haters would all outrun the ebike if he turned upr?
When I ride mine with others, it rather defeats the point of riding with them if I burn off the front so I simply ride at their pace, just putting less effort in.
A couple of mates have taken them out on demos. It's pretty much compulsory, that when they overtake you, you have to grab a camelback strap to get a tow 😀
They did say, you really need everyone to be on one, otherwise its a bit shit. You fly up hills so much quicker, and your left waiting around.
None of my able bodied riding buddies would ever get one. But if they developed health problems and it was their only way to get out that would be fine. If I could avoid it I wouldn't ride with an able bodied person riding an ebike on or off road.
Never ridden one, don't know anyone with one, but are they more likely to rip up trails? I see them as being half way to being a motorbike which obviously ruin trails and are banned from bridleways . That is my only potential objection.
I know they are speed limited, 15mph up a steep trail is probably what a motorbike would do, add on some massive knarly tyre and I'm not sure there's a massive difference. As I've said though, I don't really know anything about them.
it's crosshair isn't it - he's running scared ! 😀
as madhouse said :
A ride's a ride and a mate's a mate. Bike choice has no bearing on either.
At 58 maybe when i get to the point where i can't climb the local hills.
scaredypants - Member
it's crosshair isn't it - he's running scared !
Hahahahaha i wish
Thread was/is here
http://forums.mtbr.com/california-norcal/if-friend-your-regular-riding-crew-got-ebike-would-you-stop-riding-them-1065640.html
The power, relative to a motorbike, is nothing (I can match the power of a legal ebike using just my legs, just not for as long...) The way that little power is delivered is quite progressive, so there’s actually less roosting than on a normal bike on steep loose stuff.
Of course I would.
It'd be a great opportunity to do some testing Lakes hike-a-bike.
Never ridden one but I've done some reading - you can get the same workout as a normal bike but you just go faster which means that if you do loops you can get three circuits in instead of two for example. If you want to sit back and let the motor do the work then you can.
I'd be fine with it in principle. If it become overly competitive due to those on ebikes moaning they were waiting or those on regular bikes moaning about 'cheats' then I think the group would probably self-select over time in the same way a mixed ability or mixed fitness group might.
That said, I prefer to ride alone or with at most one or two people so it's a bit of a non issue for me.
Of course not. It's just a bike. Americans do really froth over it, but it's all because they don't understand the issue properly. They see them as motorbikes, which they're not anything like at all. And their fear of landowners kicking them off is due to their, and the landowner's, misunderstanding of how an e-bike works. Same as any objections to them in the UK - it's people not bothering to research them that's the issue.
Never ridden one, don't know anyone with one, but are they more likely to rip up trails? I see them as being half way to being a motorbike which obviously ruin trails and are banned from bridleways .
Torque is absolutely minimal, fractions of a percent of a motorbike. They also deliver power more smoothly than a normal rider (constant effort from the motor, rather than a rider mashing their pedal strokes) so won't damage the trails more than a normal bike.
100% yes ..
I haven't got one but have hired a full sus HaiBike for a day & also a fat six ..fantastic fun .
One day I will have one ..probably the fat bike version .
One of our group has just bought one ( Scott) he has done his time fell & scree running in his younger days and on a Scott Spark amongst other bikes and at the age of 73 is getting a little alienated from the group at times ..which you might expect ..so that's his reason ..
Personally I don't see age or health as the main factor for buying one ..I was just as knackered on both occasions if not more so ..it all depends on how you ride them ..
Sorry dp
It's just social media innit, people have to have an opinion, to join in, even if they don't really think it. I mean why would you not ride with people - unless it's a small group and you're the only one with out a motor.
That said, there was a couple of eBikers in the car park the other day and I didn't feel compelled to say 'Hello' like I do with MTBers, so maybe I'm a closet eBikist without knowing it.
Yes no worries. Different story though if they turned up on a singlespeed or rigid or any other weird nonsense.
I've nothing against them at all, but my mate has just got one and the way he goes on about it has made me put it in the same category as vegans and crossfit.
A mate of mine has just bought one...we'll see what happens lol.
I've nothing against them at all, but my mate has just got one and the way he goes on about it has made me put it in the same category as vegans and crossfit.
Gave me a lol.
Not that I've got anything against those activities. Some of my best friends are vegan, crossfitting e-bikers.
Mrs M has one for health reasons, it’s great on group rides as she acts as a hill climb pacer. It also means she can keep up with me and my faster mates when we’re having a brisk ride (well more really crucify us on anything other than really wiggly singletrack or flat out DH stuff ).
wallop -
I've nothing against them at all, but my mate has just got one and the way he goes on about it has made me put it in the same category as vegans and crossfit.
😆 "Oh but you have to try it!"
oldtalent - MemberYes no worries. Different story though if they turned up on a singlespeed or rigid or any other weird nonsense.
Haha, come to think of it I've demoed one and taken it on one of the weekly night rides, but then I've also turned up on demo 29ers, SSers, my own CX bike. There might be a theme here...
One of the blokes who rides regularly sometimes brings his ebike. I haven't noticed the numbers diminishing on those nights.
If I rode with other people then I would ride with an e-bike rider.
As I like climbing, the main benefit to me would be having someone to follow up the hills and improving my times.
Me neither. It would annoy me too much if I was putting in effort maintaining some speed and getting out of breath and someone was just chilling next to me on an ebike chatting away.If I could avoid it I wouldn't ride with an able bodied person riding an ebike on or off road.
I've had to learn to live with some riding mates riding 29'ers so I'm sure I could learn to live with ebikes too.
29'er ebike though?..... Hmmm... 😉
genuine question, for those who are along the lines
If I could avoid it I wouldn't ride with an able bodied person riding an ebike on or off road.
does rider age have any impact on your answer and if so what age ?
As long as they weren'tdoes rider age have any impact on your answer and if so what age ?
they would be fine.just chilling next to me on an ebike chatting away
I rode in the Vercors last year and was passed a couple of times on a long (21km I think) climb by an old couple on ebikes. They both freely admitted they'd have been driving or staying at home had they not been riding ebikes. I'm all for it really if it keeps people riding either because they can't ride without one or they don't WANT to ride without one.
Basically, though, I like bikes so I'm pretty easily pleased as long as people are on bikes.
My parents have just bought a pair of Trek Powerfly's. Both are pretty active but not the types to go on long 30+ mile rides.
Its great seeing them out and about riding.
Riding with them isn't a problem except on long shallow climbs where they pull ahead. On the flat they're no faster than a normal bike as they cut out at 15mph and off road they're limited technically.
Proper mountain bikers though, I can't see the point unless struggling with a chronic injury. They just don't give the same buzz after a ride (even on ECO it feels like a huge boost).
I've tried a couple and I like the idea but for me they are still a bit "mobility scooter". I am 65 though so not too far away eh?
I ride with anyone who can [s]keep up [/s] ride slow enough.
". I am 65 though so not too far away eh?
Age is just a number, but ill health can strike at any age. I've a friend much younger than me who's had such a battle with his health I'd buy him an ebike if it could get him back out riding with me 🙁 Mostly I ride on my own, but if I ride with others the pleasure comes from the shared experience. Tough on the climbs fun on the downs. If the able bodied rider puts any effort on their emtb on a climb, they disappear into the distance. If they just cruise along side without breaking a sweat, where's the shared experience in that ? If I want a friendly chat I go to the pub.
Thisisnotaspoon..you must be joking about not giving the same kind of buzz/ limited technically..Ive cleared technical climbs on an ebike that I would have failed at completely on my full sus ..due to the technicality of the climb rather than the gradient ..and that gave me a huge buzz..
Does your comment come from personal experience on a full sus E-bike ?
I wouldn't stop anyone coming out on one. It's their money. I do think the vast majority of people would quickly find that an ebikes increased their climbing ability too much in even quite a fit group. But if they had some condition or only rode occasionally (and still wanted to pay that amount for their toy) fair enough.
I couldn't give a monkey's what anyone else was riding. I've no doubt they'd make considerable headway on the climbs but so long as we regrouped from time to time then it wouldn't be much different to any other mixed ability group.
Mind you I would take the piss relentlessly if they'd forgotten the charge the battery and had to lug 40+lbs of bike around with them one week though.
Yup I have. Tis a good idea to swap bikes on the climbs to even up the workload!
Wouldn't say no to one myself. A bit spendy though and the cheaper one's have shite forks and equally shite componentry.
It depends on the rider, I'm usually near the back of the pack climbing, doesn't bother me, doesn't bother them. Occasionally I've ridden with people who moan and tut because they have to wait, usually because they're racing to get home or something - I've not got much tolerance for that.
So, E-Bike rider, you've got 3 times the power of most people, you're going to get to the top before me, be cool about it and I'm cool about it, I don't mind a bit of piss taking, we're men after all, it's how we express ourselves, but start moaning about having to wait and 2 things will happen, 1) You'll hear my opinion on the subject clearly, bluntly and in a way that unlikely to leave you uncertain of my feelings 2) you had better be like Greg Minnar on a promise on the way down or I'm going to do my level best to make you look very slow and then moan about having to wait for you.
Good to see you've thought it through p-jay
Just for fun I will leave this article here ..and I do mean fun 😉
http://ebike-mtb.com/en/arguments-againt-mtb-haters/?utm_source=Boomtrain&utm_medium=manual&utm_campaign=newsletter_EN&bt_ee=wX9+TJadDf2wqzCQy2wYn7HKCgWHg3JmLNbHHC/XPycAILfACCFoHUoER727eo4z&bt_ts=1515076159939
if i had the dollar, id have an ebike. and ive no health issues! i just **** hate climbing. and if i can double the amount of descents in the same duration ride then no amount of piss taking would bother me.
Two comments from me
1 - I went out for a ride with a mate, he brought his e-biked neighbour. Battery died part way round the ride, he was carrying a spare. At no point was he smashing everything, it was a cheapish e-bike though
2 - I took an e fat bike out in Lapland when I was there over xmas. It was excellent. On eco mode I couldn't really tell it was an e-bike, I was still sweating on some of the climbs (and the temp was -15C to -20C). On turbo mode I really could! But it also felt a bit too weird. To go quick you still have to pedal hard, the real advantage is on the climbs, not the flat bits or downs
hodgynd - Member
Just for fun I will leave this article here ..and I do mean fun
http://ebike-mtb.com/en/arguments-againt-mtb-haters/?utm_source=Boomtrain&utm_medium=manual&utm_campaign=newsletter_EN&bt_ee=wX9+TJadDf2wqzCQy2wYn7HKCgWHg3JmLNbHHC/XPycAILfACCFoHUoER727eo4z&bt_ts=1515076159939
Well someone's clearly not thought of a good comeback at least 11 times and taken it far worse than most!
P.s. 1500m and 50k! *Swoons*
More than happy to ride with ebikers, it's helping lift them over stiles I object to.
"if my mate got one he wouldn't be welcome on our rides" etc is a common theme here.
I expect the mate bit as as hypothetical as the the E-bike
ive cleared technical climbs on an ebike that I would have failed at completely on my full sus ..due to the technicality of the climb rather than the gradient ..and that gave me a huge buzz
Still don't understand how you can get a buzz from riding a powered bike up a hill.
But to be fair I'm equally unable to understand that apparently some people find driving a car fun.
There's nothing someone could do on an ebike that a healthier, fitter person couldn't do on a normal bike.
So an ebike is a bit of a crutch. I've no problem with that, if someone needs a walking stick it wouldn't stop me walking with them.
Still don't understand how you can get a buzz from riding a powered bike up a hill.But to be fair I'm equally unable to understand that apparently some people find driving a car fun.
My line of thinking is more that if I wanted something motorized I could get a lot more motor for my money (on 2 or 4 wheels).
Jesus that sven gunzel talks some serious bullshit
Some of you lot could ease off on the judgementalisms. Recently bumped into a fella who i did a bit of trailbuilding with a few years back. He's a fit and fast rider but after a quick chat he sailed on past us on our way up a brutal climb. We were on our first run up the hill - he was on his fifth. Having just had a young kid he hasn't the time to be out all day on the bike. Getting a days worth of riding in a few hours? How very dare he!
srshaw - Member
Never ridden one, don't know anyone with one, but are they more likely to rip up trails? I see them as being half way to being a motorbike which obviously ruin trails and are banned from bridleways . That is my only potential objection.I know they are speed limited, 15mph up a steep trail is probably what a motorbike would do, add on some massive knarly tyre and I'm not sure there's a massive difference. As I've said though, I don't really know anything about them.
They're not even close to halfway to a motorbike, a 14bhp 125cc bike which is less power than a lot of dirt bikes will have, is 10KW of power. 10 Kilowatts. E-bikes are maximum 250 watts of assistance. Not even comparable.
15mph up a steep trail on a motorbike? Hmmm, bit more than that 😉 Maybe on stuff you can't physically walk up or down... See above, 15-20kw vs 250w. And a basic 250 dirt bike will be 130-150kg rather than the 20kg of an e-bike.
Some e-bikes, earlier 😉
GMBN have launched their own e-bike channel, looks to dispel some of the myths
My background is in rock climbing where fitness and skill (plus a cool head) are the only defining aspects pertaining to the routes you are able to climb, equipment makes next to no difference. Mountain biking is different to an extent in that equipment choice makes a massive difference to the kind of route you can attempt. In rock climbing, if you have to hang on the rope (whilst leading) you've not done the route; in biking very few folk measure the success of a day out in terms of whether they put a foot down during a descent or had to push the last bit of a climb. There's much more of a sense of everybody in a group just having a fun day out.
In trying to understand my own antipathy to e-bikes, maybe I'm still thinking in rock climbing terms: This is this wonder suit you can pull on and suddenly you can climb three grades harder because you don't get pumped anymore? It would be suggested fairly soon by someone that you try easier lines without wearing the suit. Like I say, performance is a black & white issue for climbers.
I don't have a problem with someone in a group being on an e-bike as long as they constantly apologise for it! 😈
I do see a situation where when a critical mass have them and they are always up a climb first, when there is no longer any currency in being fit; that the consequence will be everyone getting them. I would give up biking at that point.
The founder of our club has recently taken to a e-bike, due to long term back issues.
Have no problem with that at all - despite not being able to keep up with her, whilst trying (desperately) to slipstream.
Chickenman ..like most folks anti ebike you constantly & consistently totally misunderstand that it is possible to get fitter on an ebike ..it all depends how you ride them ..
Sure if you want to you can take it easy ..but pushing them to the max and you will be able to go further and harder than on a non assisted bike ..trust me I know !
I bought myself a Trek Powerfly LT for Xmas. On my first ride out I went 50% further in 2/3 the time and was just as bollocksed at the end as if I'd ridden my analogue bike the shorter distance. I had a great time and I'll be doing it again this weekend.
Not sure what the beef is some folk have with e bikes,
If it means folks can get out more fair play, for what ever reason.
I bought one as an Xmas pressie to myself, a cube 29er hardtail and I’ve ridden more in the last 2 weeks then I managed the whole of last year.
Legs ached like shit at the end of each ride cos I rapidly leant you need to spin not grind,
Long term plan is to get over my recent health issues then hopefully ride my other bikes more.
Do folks who frown on the assistance I get from it also frown on the assistance some folks get from uplift days ?
My Dad pretty much gave up cycling a decade or more ago due to developing persistent heart arrhythmia. Now at 78 he’s bashing out the miles again on an Cube 29er E-bike in some fairly lumpy terrain.
To be honest, I can’t wait to cycle with the old b****r again.
I do see a situation where when a critical mass have them and they are always up a climb first, when there is no longer any currency in being fit; that the consequence will be everyone getting them.
I wouldn't worry.. For many, currency in being fit has little to do with being up climbs first and much to do with how far they can ride with other capable riders, or how far/fast solo, on any kind of bike. There's also the fact that many riders ride what they ride due to the simple feel or method in a bike, no 'group ride arms race' effect and nothing to do with speed or strava etc.
A fit, skilled rider on an ebike will go further and faster than a sedentary type on an ebike. There's a myth that riding an ebike takes way less effort - it can on a climb but for a number of riders they put in similar levels of effort overall and just get more done when on an ebike. Raggers will be raggers.
chickenman - Member
in biking very few folk measure the success of a day out in terms of whether they put a foot down during a descent or had to push the last bit of a climb.
Some of us do though, and I’m one of them - although I have to agree, some people don’t seem to bother one way or the other.
If I had the money, I could see myself using an e-mtb in Greece, where I can amuse myself for hours on techy descents and climbs and yet never be more than a very few kms. from home. I’m out on my own 90% of the time too, so there’d be no conflict.
Although for the same money as that Rocky Mountain e-Altitude I could get an Electric Motion trials bike, which would probably be just as much, or more, fun.
I ride mine with a group of mates who don't have one.
Bought it when I came back from 9 months out when they were super fit. Riding with them became difficult for all of us and I wasn't at the stage where I could train as hard as needed. They did punish me one week though, taking me round a route with a half mile off bike climb up a valley. Got very close to passing out carrying/pushing the damn thing up there.
Now I will still take it out if I'm not feeling up to speed, the other weekend we had a long non-E ride out on the Sunday and I felt broken on the Monday so took it along.
As long as I'm riding with a group of fitter mates and only use low modes I get to the end of the ride absolutely knackered and they tend to get a better workout. I'm trying not to over use it but if it gets me out when I'd otherwise stay in the house it's well worth it.
At the moment I'll use it where the group is much faster than me or I'm out on my own (night rides are great on it). Either way I make sure finish the ride knackered.
One of my mates demo'd one, he increased the power every time a climb got tough. Got back to the vans at the end of the ride and he was fresh as a daisy, I didn't up the power and my legs were absolutely done in. The super fit rider in our group who wasn't on an e-bike was also totally burst, it is very unusual to see him knackered on a ride with me.
Down side with it though is I'm way slower downhill. It's a FS Cube but I just can't throw it around like other bikes.
Makes hardly any difference, if you ride together, you ride together, besides it's not like there any faster, unless you’ve had it chipped that is, they cut out after 15mph! so the only real advantage is (if they did want to rub it in your face) is on the uphill climbs.
Besides, the ebike w*nker of the group (humour me, don’t get all touchy now) is the designated gateboy, so they have their advantages!