You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Pinkbike touched on this in their latest podcast
Return rates for batteries & motors are apparently high, something that most reviews, which are only a few months long max, don't really experience. Or owners that only have bikes for a year or so before selling them on....
Which is the next worry
Buying a second hand ebike is a huge gamble, what chances the battery & motor are going to go, out of warranty you're looking at a potential money pit, not to mention a nightmare chasing spares, even more so at the moment
The tech will settle down & improve eventually, tho supply chain shenanigans might mean that's a while off
My old bafang bbs02 is still going strong after a few year and thousands of miles, reckon it'll got forever tbh. 😆
We have an 8 year old Sparta with Bosch electrical gear on it still going strong on the work bike fleet. It has had a new display unit 3 years ago due to a client trying to plug it into a PC! (Used for re-programming the kit at the dealer sir not downloading your ride for Strava).
Battery range still as good as the day it arrived and as a hire bike it leads a hard life.
Seems to be a world of difference between eBikes used for commuting and the ones used for mountain biking. Everyone I know with an eBike has had motor issues, most have had one motor replacement, and several have had more than one. Pedal strikes and water don't suit them, and I'm sure that level of warranty claims doesn't suit manufacturers either. They'll either get a lot better or a lot more expensive. Or both, most likely.
I think it’d be a better design to isolate the motor and electronics from this, and just use a normal replaceable bottom bracket and crank axle, maybe driving the chain via an “idler” type pulley, but I’m not an engineer. Maybe it’s just too heavy that way.
Like Rocky Mountain do then. The downside is a more complex and slightly noisier drivetrain.
I had thought a new shimano 8000 motor would be £1000 or so. looks like about £700. Far from cheap but if it ever failed that’s not a cost I’d baulk at to keep bike going. So long as it’s a motor every few years not every few months!
if it ever failed that’s not a cost I’d baulk at to keep bike going. So long as it’s a motor every few years not every few month
Really ? That seems MASSIVE to me, especially factoring in things like drivetrain use, brakes, servicing shocks and forks as well, etc etc... Seems crazy talk to add on another £700 say every 2 years... i certainly wouldn't be happy.
Shimano are a slightly weird kettle of fish when it comes to motors, as you can't work on them at all.
There are various companies who work on Bosch & Brose motors who upgrade bearings, circuit boards, belts, clutches, etc.
I haven't had any motor issues in ~18 months of ownership of 2 bikes (touch wood). The only problem I have had is a pinched loom wire, and mine gets ridden hard to be fair.
singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/e-bikes-why-do-we-put-up-with-it/page/3/#post-12029884
Yeah big cost but arguably no worse than say a new high end cassette chain rear mech needing replaced every few years. Agree be gutting if failed early but if did it would be warranty job anyway. 3-4 years you’re into mileage where on a normal bike big replacement costs kick in too. The good think about my focus is it runs 10sp so drivetrain spares relatively cheap.
I still come back to the point which is expensive bikes have expensive replacement parts. Whether that be a motor or battery on ebike, or high end drive train etc on regular bikes. Can’t afford to maintain or replace then maybe don’t buy expensive in first place.
Seems crazy talk to add on another £700 say every 2 years
So less than 7 quid a week.
Seems a fair price to pay to me.
How much does it cost to park at a trail centre for a day?
Mountain biking even on an Ebike is still not that expensive on the grand scale of things.
If anyone has a straight eBike frame designed for the Bosch motor they want to sell without battery and motor please let me know as I have bent my eBike once to often to be bothered to repair it.
7 years and Major replacements are (Mostly crash damage):
1x new forks
3x new rear swing arm
2 x new dropper post
1 x new frame
4 x new chains
1 x new motor
bri-72
Yeah big cost but arguably no worse than say a new high end cassette chain rear mech needing replaced every few years.
Apart from being twice the price of the highest end cassettes/chains, and being in addition to that cost, not instead of it.
bri-72
Can’t afford to maintain or replace then maybe don’t buy expensive in first place.
That's just a crap attitude. Am sure there are plenty of folks for whom even a low-end eBike is a massive investment, but something that allows them to get out and enjoy the trails, maybe because of injury or age or whatever, and a £700 bill after two years isn't something they can or should have to swallow. Motors aren't presented as consumables.
WorldClassAccident
7 years and Major replacements are (Mostly crash damage):
1x new forks
3x new rear swing arm
2 x new dropper post
1 x new frame
4 x new chains
1 x new motor
Username checks out
How much does it cost to park at a trail centre for a day?
Can't use that logic... what if i want to do both ? Just because something else has to be paid for in the world doesn't mean the charges/expense for something else is reasonable.
Yeah big cost but arguably no worse than say a new high end cassette chain rear mech needing replaced every few years.
Well, they're a chunk less than £700. Plus this is as well as, not instead of... If the motor completely replaced the other drivetrain you'd have a point, but you still have the drivetrain that'll need replacing too.
Can’t use that logic
It just gives an example that less than 7 quid a week isn't much to pay.
Personally I've saved a fortune on uplift days since having an Ebike.
Over three years more than enough to buy a new motor.
And I get to ride DH laps of trails with no uplift. Don't have to sit in a stinky bus.
Win win from my perspective.
As I've said many times before MTB isn't that expensive compared to a lot of two wheeled sports.
Personally I’ve saved a fortune on uplift days since having an Ebike.
Over three years more than enough to buy a new motor.
And I get to ride DH laps of trails with no uplift. Don’t have to sit in a stinky bus
seeing the difference between an E-bike and a bus at 417 Flyup for example, i'll give you that as a valid point.
I don't know how much it would save at say BPW in terms of time though as a longer uplift...
However, you do then have to ride the monster truck back down, which makes it a bit poop 😀 😉
As I’ve said many times before MTB isn’t that expensive compared to a lot of two wheeled sports.
YOu don't need to tell me, i spend £300+ on a pair of tyres for the wifes ZX6R and £270 for a day at Silverstone (not including fuel and servicing etc)
Of course, all mountain biking involves trail centre parking and uplift. 🙄
That's a matter of opinion.
I and many others don't struggle with a little extra weight of a bike on descents.
Its a big plus in many cases.
YOu don’t need to tell me,
All that cash to pretend to be racing...
Should buy your lad an MX bike if you want to burn some money.😉
Sorry onion.
Forgot about you strange folk that bolt half of Go Outdoors to your bike and sleep in a ditch.
My riding doesn't involve uplifts or trail centres either. But I don't see the appeal of acting like a tramp.
I guess a new motor is the same order of magnitude cost as a new set of mid range forks, or a high end rear shock, same goes for the battery, but its in addition to forks and shocks not instead. But that same principle was the case when suspension forks came around to replace rigids, rear suspension replaced hard tails, disc brakes replaced rim brakes, dropper posts replaced rigids. They're all more expensive to replace and have shorter service life than the things that came before. Is that progress? it will be for some, not for others.
But while you can just buy a new battery , forks, shock, etc on the open market (ie order one from almost any old bike shop), it seems like motors (certainly for bosch) are harder to come by, and it currently looks like you need to take the bike to a bosch dealer and pay them to diagnose and swap the motor , and pay for the motor if not covered by warranty, whereas most of us are used to working on our own bikes and are quite comfortable swapping components over.
I think with the bosch motor it also needs configuring for the bike its going in, I think it needs to know crank length, motor mounting angle and probably some other things, and these are only settable by a dealer with the bosch software , hence not swappable by the end user. Maybe some shops might be able to start selling the motors as a service , where you tell them the bike its going in when you order it and they preconfigure it for you.
It mostly seems to be bearings, sensors going out of range, or electronics getting damaged from water. It’s a load bearing part of the bike and subject to a huge amount of force, knocks and vibration.
No experience of ebikes but plenty of experience with industrial electronic valves, that sounds about right. Some brands get drift in the torque sensors or limit switches (Rotork) and others just start doing whatever the hell they like if left outdoors (Auma). The former are easy to work on and reset or replace bits whilst the latter are basically landfill.
That's just basic motors running at a constant speed with a limit switch and torque sensor at either end.
The problem is that you can seal them better but as said that leads to more power loss. Ventilation is less of an issue as you could just run a heat pipe to a sink but again, that's more weight, more materials, more cost.
where you tell them the bike its going in when you order it and they preconfigure it for you.
Can't see why this can't be done.
When I snapped the input shaft on my Spech motor the shop configured my new motor and posted it out to me as i now live 250 miles away from what was my LBS.
I swapped them over myself.
A mate seems to eat Shimano motors on his bike. So much so he actually has a spare motor he takes with him if he's going away riding for a week.
Forgot about you strange folk that bolt half of Go Outdoors to your bike and sleep in a ditch.
That made me laugh and exactly how I feel. Happy to do multi day rides and touring but I wont be carrying a tent and sleeping stuff with me. A nice dry hotel, a hot shower and a decent bed makes it so much more enjoyable.
Over the last 12-months or so, there appears to have been a marketing campaign from the industry and those pushing for ebikes to become the norm that reliability would not be an issue with the current generation of ebikes. Don't fall for it, I've seen plenty of photographs of failed motor internals from modern ebikes, caused by......water and...pedal strikes.
You will never stop water getting into a motor, ever. Also, you will never stop pedal strikes.
Get a good warranty. They will break at some point.
Touch wood I’ve had 2000 faultless miles with a focus jam2 with a shimano motor. Lots of mud, snow, snow foam and jet washing. Couple of sets of tyres, brake pads. That’s my only costs so far
As I understand it, Shimano warranty is transferable to the 2nd owner?
I bought an ep8 equipped bike a few months back and i've put a few hundred fun miles on it in that time. I've done the rest on my roadie and gravel non assisted. I gave up motorbikes a few years ago so the e-bike is the ideal mid-point for enjoying more in less time, but still getting a good workout.
There's always some good trolling from the anti - e establishment. Maybe they should try one, they might actually enjoy it and realise its not all about the pasties.
They probably couldn't afford one though so pretend to be happy on their retro bikes.
One thing that bugs me is that, to maximise a battery lifetime, you shouldn't regularly charge the battery to 100% better to just go to 80% unless you really need it. Great not a problem to me for my normal local rides, but they don't give me any way to configure that. So I am meant to leave the battery on charge and estimate when it gets to around 80%.
Where does that 80% figure come from?
Shimanos bms doesn't charge each cell to 100% even if you charge the battery pack until its full, nor does it let each cell drain to 0% when it says its empty.
A lot of this advice applies to cells rather than battery packs with a bms. Just follow the manufacturers guidance.
One thing that bugs me is that, to maximise a battery lifetime, you shouldn’t regularly charge the battery to 100% better to just go to 80% unless you really need it. Great not a problem to me for my normal local rides, but they don’t give me any way to configure that. So I am meant to leave the battery on charge and estimate when it gets to around 80%.
A lot of this advice applies to cells rather than battery packs with a bms. Just follow the manufacturers guidance.
yes - just follow the manufacturers instructions, bosch say the following
Recharging the battery before and during storage
When you are not going to use the battery for an extended
period (longer than three months), store it at a state of
charge of around 30 % to 60 % (when two to three of the
LEDs on the battery charge indicator (3) are lit).
Check the state of charge after six months. If only one of the
LEDs on the battery charge indicator (3) is lit, charge the
battery back up to around 30 % to 60 %.
Note: If the battery is stored with no charge for an extended
period of time, it may become damaged despite the low selfdischarge
and the battery capacity could be significantly reduced.
Leaving the battery permanently connected to the charger is
not recommended.
Where does that 80% figure come from?
That is the nature of Lithium ion batteries, if they only charge up to 80-85% as standard, that is wasted capacity that I want when needed.