[Closed] E Bikes, the Devils machines!!

I thought they had to be limited to 15mph to qualify as an electric bike?

And the power output is limited to 250W.

So they might cause damage to trails but it will be insignificant compared to the damage that a moped/MX bike could cause, no more than a reasonably fit bloke on a Strava run.

Just get one of these and beat them at their own game? 8)[img] [/img]

The power assistance drops off a cliff once you reach 15 mph then you end up pedalling a heavy bike. A very heavy bike. Our hire one is 60 lbs in weight.

Seems the world of "Bicycles" have been taken over by the money men, again.

[i]I thought they had to be limited to 15mph to qualify as an electric bike?[/i]

You can still fit an aftermarket kit to a normal bike and there's no restriction. Those things are fast! One left me when I was doing 28mph on the flat and it left me like I was stood still.

What's far more important is the number of Strava KOM's that will be falling to these things.

I can't see many being used on trails so I wouldn't get so excited/het up! Love the fact that many are cheaper than "mid-range bikes suitable for upgrading" that seem so popular in current reviews. Look a good idea for commuters especially if they reduce car use.

I'm no more scared of these taking Strava KOMs than I am of someone on a moped or knowledge of digital EPO.

if i could buy a kit which had a 100 mile range to retrofit to my ss P7, i would probably get rid of my car.
im not paying as much as a half decent car for it though.
ive ridden one, it was surprisingly nippy, but it cost £2K, and had sub deore level components.
too expensive.

Look a good idea for commuters especially if they reduce car use.

Exactly the reason for the popularity here in Germany...

The Phrase "Electric Bike" make me think more of a leccy motorcycle TBH, if you aren't going to pedal you may as well go the whole hog IMO [url= http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/suzuki-drz-sm-2005-electric-48239.html ]This has to be my favourite[/url]...
Semi-illiterate fella manages to make a pretty decent stab at putting a leccy motor in a Suzuki DRZ...

TBH Electrical bicycles are not such a terrible thing, I've seen them used by people round my way who clearly wish to stay mobile but have some health or injury issue to get around, I'd much prefer those that can ride one to use a leccy bicycle than one of those deadly scooters TBH.

Plus they're hardly cheap, I don't imagine Jonny A4 will be chopping in his Five for one any time soon... The Stravanistra will carry on spending their £3K+ on Carbon Bling, replica team kits and continue to smash those KOMs the old fashioned way... by leaving their Garmin on for the drive home.

Okay, there's a few different types of e-bike I've built:

Legal ones - limited to 200W (technically 250W isn't road legal) and 15mph, mostly used by commuters or older people.

Non-legal ones - I've built them with 2kW motors, or able to do 35mph. Lots of fun, but the extra weight (6-8kg) means they're less chuckable offroad.

I don't think they're a serious threat to your fun.

I think leccy assisted bikes are a great idea if people who wouldnt normally buy a bike get them as it takes a car off the road .I have seen a bloke who doesnt drive using one with a mule trailer for his Tesco shop

They let people who otherwise couldn't get out on a bike. This is good.

Question - is a 2kw Electric bicycle completely illegal, or would it just need licencing by the DVLA as an "Electric motorcycle" for road use instead?

Not that I plan on owning one, just interested like...

Yes, it's a motorbike - so needs single-vehicle type approval, licence plates, tax, insurance, full-face helmet etc etc.

However the 2kW Heinzmann motors I used have a top speed of 16mph - you'd have to be an expert to tell that it wasn't road legal. The only giveaway is it'll still do 16mph up a 1-in-6 hill 😉

So there are a few in use on the road...

bencooper - Member
Yes, it's a motorbike - so needs single-vehicle type approval, licence plates, tax, insurance, full-face helmet etc etc.

Ah, I'm not an expert on motorbike legislation - I guess I mean motorbike helmet as compared to bicycle helmet.

I'm was going to say I'm amazed by the promotion the electric mountain bike is getting but, I'm not when I stop and think,its all financial at the end of the day and nothing to do with cycling.
Yes i can understand the need for commuters to get around but surely that's taken care of by the electric scooter!! Why oh why do we need an electric "pedal" cycle. Also how can it be legal? I used to own an NS Quickly moped many years ago and that had pedals but still needed a licence.

But my main concern; being an avid mountain biker of 30 years is the damage and disruption this is going to cause to our already sensitive trails plus the danger this will bring with increased speeds up hill. Yes i can here you now; but they are restricted to 15 miles and hour. But like many motor scooters out there now, users soon find ways to boost this and before we know it we will have electric motor cross bikes everywhere. People are inherently lazy FACT!

For me all electric powered bikes should come under the same laws as electric scooters and motor bikes. They are not human powered! FACT!!!

I think several steps should be taken now such as;
Banning them from all trail centres.
The introduction of the same restrictions for use as motorised vehicles.
The "Bicycle trade" to stop promoting motorised bikes!!
lastly Bike Biz, you might as well include all motorised bikes, why stop and electric. Crazy!
As for the Cycle show. Half of it is now Electric! One major reason i won't be attending!!

Wake up! We are in the bicycle business remember!!

The definition of a bicycle - a vehicle with two wheels in tandem, propelled by pedals connected to the rear wheel by a chain, and having handlebars for steering and a saddle like seat.
and

bicycle (?ba?s?k ? l)

— n
1. cycle , Often shortened to: bike a vehicle with a tubular metal frame mounted on two spoked wheels, one behind the other. The rider sits on a saddle, propels the vehicle by means of pedals that drive the rear wheel through a chain, and steers with handlebars on the front wheel.
do you get the feeling I'm not a fan! Lol

what a complete tosspot you sound.

Ton's right you know.

The nice people at GoCycle lent me one of these for a summer a while ago. It was chipped. It was teh awsumz.
[img] [/img]

Ebikes are a great idea, they get more people on bikes and out of their cars. They help people with certain medical needs to ride more. All good!

They get people out on two wheels. Some of them will upgrade to a proper pedal bike. They are good.

I know a couple of old guys who have bought e bikes & can now join the club rides again after giving up due to health.

I know I'll buy one when my knees give up

I hate them,our Sunday social used to be a nice relaxed pootle to a decent pub and back.Now,Geoff (75 and had one hip replacement,and waiting for the other) has got one,now we have to ride at 15mph everywhere,and the smug old git isn't even out of breath.

CFH........you made me do a bit of sick... 😯

lol at Ton.

😆
It was great for hooning around town. Not sure I'd ever buy one, mind you, but great fun either way.

seriously tho....kept me riding through illness, and helped me get back on a unaided bike.

lets just hope the op don't ever get ill.....eh?

I know a couple of people round here have them. One aged, the other with health issues.

What would you prefer, them driving a car?

Oh, and 200W won't get you many KOMs round these parts.

I did doubletake yesterday at the bike shop in Morzine where there was an electric DH bike for rental. Even for the laziest amongst us walking a DH bike 200yds to the ski lifts isn't the toughest of asks.

It did make me laugh getting overtaken a couple of months ago on our MTBs by a lady on a shopper riding in her wellies. She was shifting up a hill and one of our Strava-ista was most annoyed.

I'm all for electric bikes. You never know when you will need to use one!

If you've got health issues or getting old fair enough. But it won't end with that, it'll be like the lazy chavs in Benidorm racing around on mobility scooters. Just another pointless toy to annoy people with.

what a complete tosspot you sound.

+1

can I ask all the naysayers 1 little question?

have any of you ridden a ebike?

From your posts Ton I understand you've had health issues and had or have an e mtb. Fair enough it allows you to continue a sport you love. But why would an able bodied person use one ? If you cant be bothered to get fit ( if your able ) and pedal a bike, whats it all about, you aint being a cyclist.

choice mate.....same reason a able bodied person drives a car a short journey to work, or catches a bus, we us 'normal' folk cycle 😀

Wake up! We are in the bicycle business remember!!

Aha, I detect the faint but unmistakable odour of a LBS owner stuck in the past 😉

Are gears cheating? Suspension? Pneumatic tyres? Electric assist is just that - it helps when you can't (or don't want to) pedal hard enough, but it doesn't turn your bike into a motorbike - if people want that it's a lot cheaper and simpler to buy a motorbike.

Ton ,you used yours lots whilst recovering from a long illness didnt you ? I think the idea is great seen a few oldies on them which means a Honda Jazz is at home ,and no need for insurance etc makes them affordable.

Edric, I did, could still do with it somedays too.
managed 2 long offroad week tourer on a khalkhoff and a haibike.
both fantastic machines.

I would have missed both tours had I not being on pedal assist.

Just to clarify to count as bicycle, rather than a motorcycle, an e-bike should have the pedals turning for the electric motor to operate.

Just to clarify to count as bicycle, rather than a motorcycle, an e-bike should have the pedals turning for the electric motor to operate.

Not quite - under the UK EAPC laws, to be classed as a bicycle it must have a continuous power output of 200W or less, a top speed (under power) of 15mph, and weigh no more than 40kg. No requirement for a pedal sensor.

But under the EU type approval regulations (which cover what can be constructed and sold) the limits are 250W, 25km/h and must be a pedelec (i.e. the motor only works when pedalling).

"Pedal assist" is the keyword here. My parents (74 and 68) both have e-bikes. You [i]can[/i] just rely on the motor to push you along on the flat, but I'd guess most users do as my folks do and set the pedal assist to minimum in order to get a decent range.

They wouldn't still be cycling if not for these bikes (Skye is a bit hilly) so they're great in my eyes. They do ruin you for normal bikes though - feels horrible the next time you get on your own bike!

I've got to say I really enjoyed the OP's random capitals, well done, I could feel the butt hurt flowing through you.

Ton, (and the others talking of bad health) that's really very cool, must have been well shit to have had to contemplate giving up riding due to health issues.

I've got to say I really enjoyed the OP's random capitals, well done, I could feel the butt hurt flowing through you.

FACT!!!

I had a hell of a job recently trying to catch a little old lady on a sit up and beg bike up one of the hills round here. With my manhood on the line I coughed up a lung and just about caught her at the top, only to notice the motor at the last minute. It was quite funny actually (for her at least) and once I could talk again we had a nice little chat. It allowed her to ride her bike around the country lanes here; enjoy the views and the fresh air. You know, the same reasons many of us ride a bike. Good luck to her I say. Dropped her pretty quick on the descent though 🙂

I once got started by a guy on an electric bike 😮 on a climb 😮 my proudest moment on a bike so far, I think!

saw a guy on a modded boardman FS, with motor in wheel, least he was getting out on the trails? this was XC, not a centre

i guess he was 65+?

Over here in Germany pedelecs and ebikes are hugely popular with older people. My only problem with them is that these old people who used to bimble about on their city bikes at 5-8kmh are now tearing about at 25kmh but are still in the bimble mindset ie looking everywhere except where they are actually going and invariably helmet-less.

As far as I'm concerned I intend to be riding bikes until I drop dead. If that means hopping on one of these things to get into the hills then hell yes, I'll take it.

I get far more animated at "standards" (Headtubes, Steerers, BB's, bloody wheel sizes) which deliver bugger all benefit to the riding public than I'll ever do over a bike with a wee motor.

My only problem with them is if they give ramblers and hippies another excuse to hate us (soil erosion etc).

Which they don't, so no need to worry. They're not capable of wheelspinning, turf-churning acceleration (assuming they're the legal versions). The ethos is more about taking a little bit of the strain out of regular pedalling. They're still hard work, especially given the extra weight.

Interesting point about the 'bimbling' mindset above - my mum never once fell of her bike until she got the 'leccy one - she was looking at the scenery and hit a large pothole.

My group moan about Geoff's e-bike,but it gets him out and about,lets him go into town shopping,and maintain his mobility independently.Having watched him struggle with walking and riding a conventional bike for the last few years,this is definitely a good thing IMHO.
P.S. If a few chavs want to act like chavs,who cares?

But why would an able bodied person use one ?

Why not? Why would anyone ride a motorbike, go kite surfing, land yachting etc? Why would any able bodied person be driven up to the top of a mountain to ride down?

Cos it's a laugh, that's why. I ride up and down all sorts of mountains, and I have no intention or desire to buy an e-mtb, but I can see how it'd be fun to power up steep rocky climbs at singletrack speeds.

I'm hitting 40 with a knackered back and I'd
Def consider an e bike in the future if it keeps me
riding a few more years

It's all cycling after all

there's a guy who overtakes me on one about once a week on his commute. he tries to act all nonchalant but you can tell he loves going past everyone. I try to act like it doesn't count because it's not a fair fight... I HATE HIM ❗

also seen a guy on an electric Brompton which absolultely flies, even up the hills - very impressive to see. shame it's ridden by an absolute dick who just canes it through all the red lights.

also seen a guy on an electric Brompton which absolultely flies, even up the hills

I'm building one of them at the moment - well, as soon as I've finished this electric Birdy 😉

Like others have said, if ebikes get people cycling who wouldn't otherwise.. what's wrong with that?

More people on bikes, more 'normal' folk is only going to improve the public's understand of cyclists. Move us more towards the culture on the continent where cycling is considered a method of transport, unlike in this country where it's something curious-men in lycra do.

Agreed, when the time comes for a bit of assitance, I'd like the option of a bike rather than a mobility scooter.

And the more money going into battery technology/power storage research the better.

i give in, i thought this site was for cyclists. you lots have missed the point, electric bikes need to be licence as it's a motorised vehicle, the type of bike i'm concerned about is the new full sus electric all mountain bikes not a bike for old folk. Not sure if anyone of you have built some sweet singletrack but if anyone rips up the trails i built in Cranham on an electric mountain bike they'll be trouble. we've spent enough time getting access sorted. This will lead to more conflict but hey ho. some of you seem to think its cool. We'll see eh.
quick question, if a guy ripped up your local trail on an mx bike would you mind? this is how it will end up when people up the power.

just an opinion of a cyclists who loves bicycles and yes i do own an IBD. 😉 xxTonxx

I'm not talking commuters, this is what i mean
[img] [/img]

God help your trails when these are ripping it up. Now do you understand me?

Did you read any of the thread? Specifically about people being no longer able to ride due to ill health. The legislation in place seems to me to limit the amount of power available, seriously if people want to go uber fast they'll just buy a crosser, it'll be cheaper anyway.

haha, do you honestly think the mtb world is marketing this type of bike(see picture above) to ride to the shop. I understand about commuter bikes, they are called scooters/mopeds, a bicycle does not have an engine. hello. look at the pic. People will soon make them faster. its not hard to up the power, as for if its legal, what difference does that make, people do what they can get away with.

They look pretty good fun to me...

You've missed my point, there are people out there who love riding bikes but no longer can because of ill health, the above bike may just allow them to do it again, there is an example of a member doing that on this very thread.

Go price up that bike then price up a motocross bike, if idiots want to ride like idiots they'll just buy a motocross bike, they're cheaper.

E-bikes are brilliant because: more people on bikes = fewer people driving like complete **** dickheads, hooray!

I hope I never need to use one, but if I do I'll be glad I can still get on two wheels and have some fun. They are a bit gopping, though.

I can see why you're upset now.

That paint job is Minging!

oldmeany....if we ever meet out on the trail, and if I am on my ebike, I would like to wheelspin on your throat..... 8)

The % of people that will actually buy one because they are of ill health and can't spin anymore is minimal. Somebody suffering from bad knees could get an aftermarket electric motor fitted to almost any bike for far less than the cost of a whole new "E Bike".
I know this because a friend of mine used to have a relative who did this, and as mentioned before they can be manipulated to run much much faster then legal/safe. He has maxed out on one at 62mph on the flat.

This whole fad is just the bike companies milking you for cash, next year they will release new more powerful/lighter/cooler/must have "E Bikes" and some of you poor buggers will be mugged into buying it.

As mentioned before, I'm not talking about Doris & Frank popping down to the village shop for a pint of milk and a paper, I'm all for them using a power assisted bike rather than a car but just look at Cube's new website and the F/S Hybrid bikes.

Oh noes!

People making things that other people want to buy in order to make money! 🙁

Whatever shall we do?

This whole fad is just the bike companies milking you for cash, next year they will release new more powerful/lighter/cooler/must have "E Bikes" and some of you poor buggers will be mugged into buying it.

Yup, it's sneaky underhanded tricks like that that have made bike companies the biggest corporations on the planet 😉

E bikes arent bicycles as I recognise them. And apart from their uses as personal transport or as an aid for those less able I don't see how they fit in with the whole ethos of cycling, but he ho each to their own in the rich west we can buy whatever toys we want, that what makes the world go round I suppose.
Ton ! Whats with your aggressive bully boy posts. Every time you come into a thread of late its with an insult followed up with a threat. Not everyone agrees with every opinion out there, do you talk to people like that in the real world ?

THIS. IS. AMAZING.

[img] [/img]

E bikes arent bicycles as I recognise them.

Mountain bikes have only been around for 30 years or so - I don't think you can get too uppity about what constitutes a bicycle 😉

I think you can Ben. A bicycle is a self propelled vehicle, e bikes have a motor of sorts.Its that bit in the frame where a water bottle might go 😉

I don't see how they fit in with the whole ethos of cycling

What about uplifts?

E-bikes are still generally self-propelled - even the MTB ones - the motor just helps a bit. Just like suspension, dropper posts, disc brakes and gears help a bit.

But more importantly - why get your Lycra shorts in a twist over it? Why do you care what bikes other people enjoy riding?

I don't realy care Ben. But this is a cycling forum where people share " their" opinions on cyling related topics.
It seems to me its the pro e bike faction thats getting their lycra in a twist.
Truth of the matter is if I met someone out on the trails on an e bike I'd be as interested in checking it out as I would any other interesting different bike. Doesn't alter the fact that their use by able bodied people is a direction that I wish the sport wouldn't go in.

at last some sensible conversation. i think my concern comes from looking at the future and where this is heading. Electric Mountain bikes will get cheaper and cheaper and more and more popular so i guess i'm on a loosing side here. 😐
I'm surprised that members on singletrack though, i had thought this site to be more loyal to the bike, this same topic came up on pinkbike and almost 100% came up against this type of bike and the damage it will do.
It would appear the pinkbike readers have a stronger desire to stick with pedal power. I'm surprised i must say.
I can't wait to be on here in 4 years time and read all the cyclist complaining about the motorised bike ripping up the trails. it will come.
Hopefully the laws on electric power bikes will change in the mean time. motor bikes and heading to electric power, mountain bikes are heading to electric power, where's the dividing line ❓

must go now, need to open my BICYCLE SHOP... lol 😉

taxi25 - apologies if my posts sound like threats....they are not.
and the reason i talk to oldmeany like such, is because we are friends and have been for a fair few years.

hope that is ok.... 😀

I like riding bikes. I like it if more people ride bikes (and not just for business reasons). If some electric assistance helps with that, great.

Motorised bikes have been around for over 100 years. The dirt bike is actually older than the mountain bike. Doesn't seem to have affected MTBing much, does it?