[Closed] e-bikes not welcome?

Would seem a bit silly to ban them. As most e-bikes are speed limited, and essentially just assist the rider, then you could argue that they are not a fully motorised vehicle. If they are helping some folk to get out and enjoy the trails, and are riding with a the same level of respect for other riders (like evryone does?), then why stop them?

I have no plans to get one, and hope I never need one.

Just as long as you dont try and knobble proper Strava times...

As most e-bikes are speed limited,

easy to derestrict though

E bikes are great for those who may not be strong or fit enough to ride normal bikes, I'd expect attempts at blanket restrictions to run up against Disability Discrimination legislation. Having said that loads of Local Authorities happily build bike Infra that restricts access to some kinds of rider.

easy to derestrict though

And then it's illegal in the UK, unless on private land

Would seem a bit silly to ban them. As most e-bikes are speed limited, and essentially just assist the rider, then you could argue that they are not a fully motorised vehicle. If they are helping some folk to get out and enjoy the trails, and are riding with a the same level of respect for other riders (like evryone does?), then why stop them?

+1

depends on your pov, if your running your e-bike to get straaaaava KOM's then I suppose boo but then we should also ban capra's too as every KOM around here is on one too 😆

Would seem a bit silly to ban them. As most e-bikes are speed limited, and essentially just assist the rider, then you could argue that they are not a fully motorised vehicle. If they are helping some folk to get out and enjoy the trails, and are riding with a the same level of respect for other riders (like evryone does?), then why stop them?

+1

depends on your pov, if your running your e-bike to get straaaaava KOM's then I suppose boo but then we should also ban capra's/29ers/CX bikes too as every KOM around here is on those too 😆

if your stopping people from getting into the great outdoors cos it 'wasn't like this in my day' - grow up

Complete opposite in Austria where they promote them heavily on tourist board websites and having charging points at a lot of the mountain restaurants.

E bikes are great for those who may not be strong or fit enough to ride normal bikes

Agreed, especially regarding access issues.

Additionally, there does seems to be a great deal of (public) confusion between electric assist bikes (pedelecs) or E-bikes - the latter being a title which seems to cover everything between pedelec and half-ton drag-racing electric motorbike.

Pedelecs are also very useful for transport when traversing hilly places which would be time and energy constrictive for even an exceptionally fit cyclist.

For instance - my friend lives only 14 miles away, easily cycleable by regular bike, you would think, at least for most of us?

Yet, when visiting my friend by bicycle (unless take a suicidal A-road. And I won't) there is no real choice but to navigate ten (coastal) valleys each way. This (speaking from experience) alters everything. What would (in regular rolling countryside) be a relaxing visit with (say) 40 minutes bike ride each way, becomes an exhausting small expedition of 3-4 hours up a considerable number of up extremely challenging gradients. (Tried working it out, it tops out at something like 9000ft total)

I figured in short that a pedelec (as addition to my regular bikes) would save me using the car for such a journey, especially when time is restricted*

I do hope that pedelecs will become a viable, progressive means of alternative transport (from cars) and quickly shed the developing image of 'biking for the infirm' . Ironically - driving a car is arguably the most 'infirm' method of transport other than sitting on a train. Yet neither have that image.

Someones getting banned from something....and its not me

[img] [/img]

Other than the technology used I don't see the difference between electric bikes and motorbikes.

Other than the technology used I don't see the difference between electric bikes and motorbikes.

How are you defining 'electric bike' here? ie 'any bike with an electric motor' or do differentiate between 'assist' and 'no requirement to pedal'?

Other than the technology used I don't see the difference between electric bikes and [s]motorbikes[/s] electric pencil sharpeners.

Sorry I'm in a bad mood today

I read the links, and I don't see anything about a ban, or any suggestion that the Forest Service are "not fans". They've simply done an assessment and decided that ebikes can access FS trails under motor vehicle regs.
They even included a note on the position of the IMBA, who also appear to take the motor classification line: "IMBA would support the use of e-Bikes anywhere that we could also support other motorized uses.”

All seems very reasonable?

I read the links

and that's how it starts...how dare you don't you know this is STW

I look forward to the court case in the US when it is decided whether a pedal assist E-bike can actually be considered to be "self-propelled", which is the basis of this legislation/rule.

Other than the technology used I don't see the difference between electric bikes and motorbikes.

This is the quote that I'm getting most sick of in this endless debate.

I've ridden both and they're worlds apart. Noise, pollution, very high speeds, terrain damage?

An e-bike is just a bike that goes up hills easier.

I got overtaken on my commute a week ago while riding up a small hill, i was doing 20mph. An oldish lady came flying past me with a massive grin on her face, she was still grinning as i overtook her going back down.

Her bike was clearly de-resticted, it didnt bother me as it made me smile seeing her enjoying herself.

I've got mixed emotions about them, they are getting more popular on my commute and there are a few that perhaps dont really need them and only have them to get to their destination quicker.

Other than the technology used I don't see the difference between electric bikes and motorbikes.

You are not very perceptive. I suspect you've never had a go on one, or even read anything about them based on that comment.

Motorbikes have no speed limiters, beyond the rider's conscience and the capability of the engine/motor, can have unlimited power, require no physical input from the rider and because of this can do a lot of damage to trails.

Electric bikes are limited to 15mph, can have no more than 250 watts (the KTM Freeride E electric motorbike has 16,405 watts - which is only 22 horsepower, half what the equivalent KTM 350 EXC petrol bike has) and the electric power only kicks in when the rider is pedalling. The power is so low that riding an electric bike still requires effort and will not rip trails to pieces any more than a normal bike. They won't let you batter up muddy slopes you wouldn't normally get up with the rear wheel slipping and firing roost everywhere. They behave just like a normal bike.

Do some research, stop being ignorant and see that these things are not a problem.

...there are a few that perhaps dont really need them and only have them to get to their destination quicker

Like 90% of the people sitting in cars who live walking distance from work.

Electric bikes are limited to 15mph, can have no more than 250 watts (the KTM Freeride E electric motorbike has 16,405 watts - which is only 22 horsepower, half what the equivalent KTM 350 EXC petrol bike has) and the electric power only kicks in when the rider is pedalling. The power is so low that riding an electric bike still requires effort and will not rip trails to pieces any more than a normal bike. They won't let you batter up muddy slopes you wouldn't normally get up with the rear wheel slipping and firing roost everywhere. They behave just like a normal bike.

True, but an electric motor will deliver 250W from standstill, hence why you can make electric drag bikes which post respectable times, but still won't top 100mph, 22hp of electric power feels completely different to a 22hp petrol engine.

That plus the average STW forumite probably doesn't have an FTP of 250W, even before the motor's switched on, so it is going to cause more erosion knocking out >2x the power and good few extra kilos of weight.

Fine if you want to commute on them, that's a different matter, but on trails, I really don't see them as being the way forward for the sport in general. Too much potential for grief from landowners, potential liabilities for trail centers not being insured for motorized use (are they going to have a guy on the gates checking the restrictions?), grief from other user groups, just imagine not only having to calmly explain tot he red socks that yes it is a bridleway but that no your quiet bike doesn't have an electric motor and you're just quick because you're fit (followed by the inevitable waste of police time when the red-sock phones in about a 'motorbike' on Houndkirk moor to 101).

TurnerGuy - Member
easy to derestrict though
And then it's illegal in the UK, unless on private land

Yes, but when did that stop anybody

TINAS - Most people will do more than 15mph down an average non technical descent without a motor. Is that currently creating the conflicts you write about?

While I appreciate that the 250w is available on tap it's not like it's a massive amount, and on most technical ascents you'll never reach the 15mph limiter anyway. It's not going to suddenly turn the trail into the Somme.

As said previously, in Austria they are accepted as great things that get the not so fit out into the outdoors.
Charging stations in most touristy places.
Here's one outside Spar:-

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figured in short that a pedelec (as addition to my regular bikes) would save me using the car for such a journey, especially when time is restricted*

a good argument in favor of pedelec bikes for normally-able people

TurnerGuy - Member
easy to derestrict though
And then it's illegal in the UK, unless on private land

Yes, but when did that stop anybody

Except when you have an accident you could open yourself up to a world of liability if the other party notices your illegal form of transport.

And any liability insurance you may have on your home insurance will probably be void as well.

That plus the average STW forumite probably doesn't have an FTP of 250W, even before the motor's switched on, so it is going to cause more erosion knocking out >2x the power and good few extra kilos of weight.

What you say may be true of electric motors but not of any/many pedelec systems.

Rider + motor power isn't doubled up in that way and the motors don't deliver power in a near-instant zero to max manner. To post 450-500w total you'd need to put out your 200-250W on top of a maxed-out e-bike motor - try it sometime : )
To hit the cut-off speed takes me about 50-80W estimated power - not much anyway. To add any notable speed / power on top of the 15mph limit is more like working not far off my max level since I'm working against the engine cut off drag as well as putting power to the wheel. What the e-bike pedalec system does is allow any rider to put out maybe 150W for 2hrs, hitting 250W uphill at times. It isn't an addition to your own power, it's almost independant of it.
It's why I don't see a need for normal/long cranks on e-bikes - it's a very different way of delivering power via pedals, your pedals are simply the speed or input controller, not something you use to add significant power yourself unless the motor is turned off.

All that only counts for road-legal bikes. Even if you could spin ~200 rpm cadence from standstill the power delivery of road-legal ebikes won't make wheel-spinning roost. MTB-specific systems will/can have different power curves but there's no gain in excess power at start up like that.
As for the illegal versions, erosion from MTBers skidding about or riding in the wet on normal bikes will remain higher than the number of e-bikers on derestricted bikes for a long time yet I expect.

Yes, but when did that stop anybody

Except when you have an accident you could open yourself up to a world of liability if the other party notices your illegal form of transport.

And any liability insurance you may have on your home insurance will probably be void as well.

Add to that uninsured and unlicensed vehicle use on public roads. Probably without a motorbike-class helmet also. That could be points on your car license, prosecution, fines etc.
I expect it won't take long for ebikes involved in road accidents to be checked over like any other vehicle would be, since the media love to highlight the terrors that the lycra louts inflict on the world it'll be a known possibility before long.

Back to the original point/post though, the US wilderness regs that seem to influence things over there are about non-mechanised travel and/or non-motorised. I think that's largely related to emissions and noise. Will be tricky to call how it'll go for e-bikes that are motorised but have no emmissions or noise. Personally if they're EU-legal classification I can't see any issues with them going where any other bikes can go.

Not as simple as "private land" it would actually have to be "private land to which the public do not have access" for a derestricted ebike

US based but with relevance to everyone else really

Except it's really [b]not[/b] relevant to everyone else really - UK law is absolutely clear that a restricted ebike/EPAC is, in law, a bicycle - I don't think it helps anyone publishing articles, viewpoints or regulations from the states, it only serves to muddy the waters.

Except when you have an accident you could open yourself up to a world of liability if the other party notices your illegal form of transport.

And any liability insurance you may have on your home insurance will probably be void as well.

When has that ever stopped anyone on a motorbike (where the penalties are more severe and it requires some tools and mechanical know-how).

Doubling the average persons power output on a climb is going to cause erosion. And we already have trouble with being lumped in with motorbikes in the eyes of the Ramblers et. al. Further blurring those lines isn't going to help.

We should also ban all motor vehicles from the roads because some folk will exceed the speed limit.

Doubling the average persons power output on a climb is going to cause erosion

They won't double an average rider's power unless it's built to be a road-illegal electric 'crosser.

Further blurring those lines isn't going to help.

The EU and UK laws unblur the lines quite clearly I'd say. Visually harder to spot the difference between legal and dongled on the trail but that's just how it is.

I have actually ridden an electric bike on the road, so I have a good idea of what the advantage in terms of pedal assist is available.

I'm 60 years old and ride quite a bit off road these days, but the day will come when the climbing involved will probably force me to stop due to me just not being physically capable of the effort required.

An electric bike which would assist me would be great, it means I could still continue to get out and enjoy my riding.

I honestly don't see any negatives.
The bike won't cause any more damage to the trails, I probably won't be that much quicker anywhere, I will be out having some exercise and enjoyment.
Whats not to like?

as for the Strava cheating line, lets get real, if we were any good in terms of performance we would be racing, and winning. Strava is good distraction and motivation on a personal level, thats what I use it more.

Regards

Denis

An electric bike which would assist me would be great, it means I could still continue to get out and enjoy my riding.

I honestly don't see any negatives.

I can see one...

I met an older gentlemen at peaslake on one - he said he and his 71 year old mate could now ride around that areas whereas without the assist they wouldn't be able to.

But he said that as they started down a trail, BKB in this case, they would obviously be careful as a fall at that age has more consequence than for a younger rider, but that care would soon dissolve as they threw caution to the wind and blasted down like kids.

So the negative is the increased risk exposure...

If increased risk exposure is a bad thing then let's ban helmets.

Tinas - grasping at straws much?

[quote=ninfan ]Except it's really not relevant to everyone else really - UK law is absolutely clear that a restricted ebike/EPAC is, in law, a bicycle - I don't think it helps anyone publishing articles, viewpoints or regulations from the states, it only serves to muddy the waters.

This. It took a while for somebody to point out the most fundamental issue with the OP. In the US they are classed as motor vehicles, in the UK provided they meet the relevant rules they're classed as bicycles.

The point about public liability insurance on your household insurance is an interesting one. On my policy and all others I've checked there is specific mention of e-bikes being covered in the same way as bicycles (provided they meet the regs), despite the fact they'd normally be classified as motorised vehicles and therefore not covered. Therefore you definitely wouldn't be insured when riding a de-restricted one (not that most people seem to be aware they are insured for cycling under a household policy).

I'd certainly like to see more e-bikes and less cars, that would make a lot of sense for shorter journeys, especially in overcrowded urban areas. But that would make more sense if people were using roads rather than cycle lanes/paths, otherwise they would quickly become congested and create user conflict. But you could create brilliant town centre e-bike parks with charging points, and decent routes direct to town. You could do your shopping with this instead of an X5:
http://bikes-as-transportation.com/third-generation-electric-cargo-bike/

I think with ebikes off road, the perception is going to be worse than the reality. Concerns about trail conflict, erosion, and derestricted bikes are certainly valid. But, I think it will be self-selecting in much the same way mtbing is already. People are still going to have to have the will to venture out in the mud and navigate themselves, or head to a place that is suitable, as well as factor in the extra expense of an e-bike compared with a capable entry level mtb. An ebike doesn't suddenly render it any easier to negotiate technical features, read a map (or follow a GPS), or fix mechanicals - all things that prevent people from riding off road already. It may mean more ebikes at trail centre venues, but perhaps these might be catered for on e-bike specific trails, or just on regular trails. Would they create more damage than happens already with corner cutting and braking bumps..? I'm fairly open-minded about it.

Except for Strava. They have to have a different category/App for ebikes 🙂

E-assist bikes are being used on trails in my area.

Not seeing any evidence of damage.

Most trail damage here is done by downhill would be heroes.

Perhaps we should ban the power assist given by gravity... 🙂

[quote="jameso"]They won't double an average rider's power unless it's built to be a road-illegal electric 'crosser.I think you may be overestimating the amount of power that the "average" rider puts out, or can be bothered to put out. 😉

[quote=faustus ]You could do your shopping with this instead of an X5:
http://bikes-as-transportation.com/third-generation-electric-cargo-bike/

A truly excellent use for an e-bike - on something where 15mph is a decent speed and could be hard to achieve with just pedal power, where hills are usually a big impediment, and where the extra weight isn't really noticeable. The big remaining issue is the price.

Though this made me 😕

They need the hub dynamo to determine how fast the bike is going so they can keep electric assistance within legal limits.

Most e-bikes manage without one, and you wouldn't think it terribly difficult to have speed measurement in the electric power unit - and if not you certainly don't need a dynamo to measure speed. Somebody is misunderstanding or peddling BS.

Except for Strava. They have to have a different category/App for ebikes

They already do - not sure how long it's been there, I just noticed it there one day - so e-bike riders have no excuse for messing with unpowered leaderboards.

I think you may be overestimating the amount of power that the "average" rider puts out, or can be bothered to put out.

I didn't know that aracer - glad to hear it!

But when you add on the motor's 250W to what your legs are producing, you'd have to put out more than 250W for it not to be doubled. I doubt many if any e-bike riders produce 250W for even as long as an hour - for most it will be a lot less.

But when you add on the motor's 250W to what your legs are producing, you'd have to put out more than 250W for it not to be doubled.

eg, I've ridden a local mid-gradient 1 mile climb at a pedelec's max speed, my effort level to do that was mostly minimal. To match that speed on my road bike my effort level is way higher - around current threshold pace. What I can't do is go much faster than the pedelec's max by adding my own full-effort power - I struggle to go even 10-15% faster for long. The power cuts at 15mph and my power can't keep that bike at a higher speed uphill. thf the power isn't additional in the simple way some see it.

Edit to add, I could better explain all that by pointing out on many systems the chainring and crank are not directly linked - the crank is effectively the 'on' switch. The chainring has power delivered to it based on power setting and crank rpm combined with the speed sensor.

Ignorance is from people not quite grasping that pedelcs are not electric MXers. i think the 15 mph clarification helps.

don't see a huge problem off road. my main issue is on the sustrans routes i take to work.

15 mph on a dutch style bike is too fast for some of the frankly poor cycling facilities we have in the UK. on several occasions whilst moving through a narrow twisty section of cycle path i've had to avoid electric bikes.

In holland it's not an issue as most of there cyclelanes are suitable for 50cc scooters. not so true in the UK.

having now read the links....

US forest service state.

There are two basic types of e-bikes, pedal assist and throttle twist. On pedal assist e-bikes, the motor does not have to be on the entire time the bicycle is being ridden and can be activated by pedaling to augment human power.

but then conclude

E-bikes have a motor and are therefore self-propelled

if you have to pedal it's not self propelled. no?

American e-bike/pedalelec rules are not the same as EU, so not directly comparable to here.

Current US street legal limit is 750w output, and 20mph cut off, although there is a loophole that allows up to 28mph.

https://www.electricbike.com/28mph-legal-strategy/

Re. the OP, we already have a sensible set of [url= https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules ]rules[/url].

With regard to whether an E bike would be faster, well probably not for me on almost all my rides, and those where the extra power would really be nice I may well need to carry so :(.

I think for people that are limited by their fitness or age, it's a fine idea for getting about. I would've considered one on a cargo bike or trike for carting the kids about as my wife would not fancy it unassisted and loaded up, but we bought a car so I don't have the £££s, again, :(.

15mph could well be too fast in a number of situations, but then again I can pedal a lot faster than that in a lot of situations without assistance, similarly a 20 or 30mph speed limit can be inappropriate for motor vehicles - you can't legislate for everything, in this case you're just saying if you want to be powered faster get a license and insurance.

TurnerGuy - Member
TurnerGuy - Member
easy to derestrict though
And then it's illegal in the UK, unless on private land
Yes, but when did that stop anybody

Except when you have an accident you could open yourself up to a world of liability if the other party notices your illegal form of transport.

And any liability insurance you may have on your home insurance will probably be void as well.

I think the chance of that is virtually zero.
About 99% of the population wouldn't have a clue what the law is on this
About 99% of the population wouldn't know what a tuning box is, what it looks like and/or where on the bike it might be.
A tuning box can be removed in about 5 seconds (attaches by means of a rubber band) and the bike returns to normal.

A tuning box can be removed in about 5 seconds (attaches by means of a rubber band) and the bike returns to normal.

Depends on the system used. Some can't be modded - or not without some very in-depth work and knowledge. Some appear designed to cheat the regs as easily as possible. I'd expect those that are easily modified will be under closer scrutiny to limit that for future developments.

From the off - I'm all in favour of ebikes (pedalecs) for lots of reasons. And I've ridden quite a few and liked them.

As most e-bikes are speed limited,
easy to derestrict though

This is what MUST be avoided. De restricting them is selfish and stupid. It could hurt someone, it could land you in trouble but most importantly to me, it could kill ebikes in the UK before they get off the ground properly.
Also, I'm now a Bosch trained ebike technician and whilst it's not 100% certain we know how to look for a de restricted bike and that voids your warranty. £500+ for a motor remember......

Anyway.
I took a Shimano Steps powered bike home the other week. And I Strava'd it. I smashed my ride home time by a decent margin even though most of the time I was way above 25kph. The next day it was blowing a gale and I rode back to work straight into it. It was rather nice to relax and let the bike do the work, I'll say that!
On my way home I decided to see if I could break the previous day's time. With the help of said wind assistance and some luck at the traffic lights I took a huge chunk out of the previous day's time. But I was going for it and I was absolutely flat stick for the whole journey.
The ebike Strava showed lots of personal records going uphill and the following day on my Genesis I set loads of records going downhill, broadly speaking.
As a commuting proposition I could justify an ebike right now I think. But I don't need one so I won't. If people are replacing cars with them then I'm all for it. 🙂

I am not ignorant, they are more alike motorbikes than they are different, the technology allows them to slip between regulations and as such they are marketed at certain people.

have you ridden one?

genuine question because i thought similar until i recently tried a scott E spark, having previously ridden something quite different ~10 years ago.

I am not ignorant, they are more alike motorbikes than they are different,

Did you read any of what has been written above? Or were you being ignorant?

I am not ignorant, they are more alike motorbikes than they are different,

I'm fairly convinced ebikes are the future of utility cycling

Agree.

Not so sure they will replace the car though but they will replace the human powered utility bike, i.e. for people who cycle as a means from A-B rather than for any enjoyment.

I hope they will never be for me as I only ride for pleasure and enjoy testing my own fitness and riding light/nimble bikes. eBikes will be a good challenge and I look forward to coming across them on my climbs though.

Not sure if anyone's already mentioned it but the USA laws regarding e-bikes are far less restricted compared to EU e-bikes.

I remember seeing that 750w 40mph+ e-bikes are perfectly legal on the road in the stats, which may explain why they don't want them on trails.

I can't see how it would enforceable to ban e bikes from trail centres or off road riding.

At least with MX bikes, the sound of the engine gives them away.

Can you imagine a force of rangers at each trail centre roaming around trying to catch people riding e bikes?

Most of the opposition to e-assist bikes comes from people with hypothetical propositions with as much relevance as being attacked by Orcs in the mountains.

The reality is one of those bikes cannot be used at full assist for very long, and you would only want to experience running out of juice once at any sort of distance from the trailhead. They are far too heavy for anyone to want to have to ride one uphill with a dead battery. And bigger batteries are even heavier.

I'm starting to wonder if E-bikes are the answer to my wind problem. 15 mile westward commute home into a seemingly constant 15mph+ headwind. I'm trying to commute at least 2-3 times per week and it's starting to get right on my nerves.

Thing is a 15mph top speed just isn't enough, I can do that anyway without too much effort as it's flat, it's just a chore constantly fighting the wind after a long day at work.

I'm thinking 20 mph will get my journey time down to 40 mins, I can manage that unassisted on a good day as it is so I'm not sure why the speed limit for electric assist is set so low. I reckon if that limit were to be raised E-bikes could become a viable car alternative.

I delivered an e-bike 20 mph for a friend once.

If I had a long commute, I'd shamelessly ride an e-bike.

Want to feel like you're 18 again? Ride an e-bike.

[quote=jameso ]Yes, but most EU-legal systems (ie Shimano) don't add power like that - it's not additional, it's alternative. It can hit either 250w or 15mph max with little input from the rider unless it's really steep

Hmm, 15mph = 6.7m/s
for an 80kg rider and bike combo climbing at a vertical rate of 0.5m/s takes 400W just for the work against gravity, add at least another 100W for all the other resistance.
6.7m/s horizontal and 0.5m/s vertical is 7.5% or 1:13 gradient - steep, but not incredibly steep for off-road.

Most of the opposition to e-assist bikes comes from people with hypothetical propositions with as much relevance as being attacked by Orcs in the mountains.

In true STW fashion, this thread de-railed almost instantly. The OP specifically referenced [b]US[/b] Land Managers policy documents relating to "trails" and then just about everyone else started waxing lyrically about how great they are for utility cycling on roads in the UK!

Anyway, my point is that in some areas of North America (I live in Vancouver), e-bikes are a 'problem'. Specifically, North Vancouver (you know, the original 'North Shore') is right on the edge of a huge urban area which means lots and lots of people use the same trails (hikers, dog walkers, mountain bikers, trail runners). Mountain bikers are already considered renegades by many NIMBY-types and illegal use of e-bikes is not likely to help get more trails built or even maintained as political pressure is applied. And yes, the majority of trails where I live are deemed 'non-motorized' and that includes e-bikes.
Of course, there are other trails which do permit motorized use and e-bikes are fine on those. Personally, I think the USFS and BLM have made the correct decision - yes, you can ride e-bikes on trails on their land but only on those trails where you can ride MX bikes (or ATVs or 4x4s).

Re: commuting - I'm trying to hold out for as long as I can. It will be a sad day when I'm so old and infirm that I have to 'cheat' and use an e-bike to get to work 😆
(Though I am sometimes secretly envious when an e-bike flies past me uphill...)

i have no problem with e bikes on trails. I'll get one when i'm not fit enough to ride trails myself. I saw loads
in Europe this summer generally with old guys on them.

I also spent a few days road riding in Spain in the Val D,Aran just across the border from Luchon and it has a great network of trails but no lifts. You could see e bikes being used to promote usage without investing in lifts.

As for the power thing should we ban Julien Absalon from the trails or heaven forbid if Chris Froome took up mountain biking.

heaven forbid if Chris Froome took up mountain biking.

No more alike than a big downhill bike is to an MX bike. Or any bicycle is except for an engine. You still have to pedal them.
You might not be ignorant but you do have a chip on your shoulder.
I'm fairly convinced ebikes are the future of utility cycling but this is what UK cyclists fail to see. They'll have the latest bike and kit, go on regular rides, travel to trail centres and look the part. But as soon as they need to nip 2 miles into town they take the car. This is car replacement. This is what we need to do to reduce traffic levels and emissions etc.
I was dead against ebikes at the start but I've made my peace with them (and ridden quite a few). Open your mind!

I agree. Spot on. More ebikes = fewer car journeys + more bikes out and about, more people to support utility cycling, safer roads, etc, etc.

We look at the NL and think 'if only the UK was flat'.... Well with ebikes the topography of less of an issue. I don't ride one but I can see reasons why I would.

they are getting more popular on my commute and there are a few that perhaps dont really need them and only have them to get to their destination quicker.

speaking for my own situation, I 'need' to get to certain destinations more quickly than I can ever manage unassisted (see my prior post upthread). Time is an issue for me and prefer to cycle than drive. Assumedly this is true for others. Of course - 'need' is the key word here, I could simply drive, or pay someone to free me up more time...

We are blessed locally with some really good shared use routes, there is however an issue with the plastic hat hi viz type of ****spanna cyclists riding in an inconsiderate way and posing a hazard to others.

Classifying electric motorised bikes as bicycles just adds to this problem and risks extra regulation of pedal cycles by association with motorised bikes.

Motorised is a motorbike, pedal is a pedalcyle, the Americans have it right.

I wonder how many of these purists opposed to e-assist bikes actually ride to the trails?

I'm not opposed to motorised bikes, I think there bloody brilliant things let's have loads of them on the roads though not where people may be walking.

Driving to trails- well it's a bit of pointless question but the only trails I drive to are150 miles away, when I get there I stop the car and use a bicycle or walk.

I suppose if privately owned trail centres want to allow them and it helps people with ailment that's fine but not in a shared space or national parks please.

wilburt - Member
...I suppose if privately owned trail centres want to allow them and it helps people with ailment that's fine but not in a shared space or national parks please.

I doubt anyone would bother with one unless they felt the need. If you're doing a lot of climbing the battery very quickly runs down, and if you're not fit then you're not going to like what you're left with once the battery is flat, especially if you have gone some distance from the trailhead.

The 250 watt limitation doesn't really add up to more than what a fit rider can put out on a climb, and the speed restriction means absolutely no advantage on a descent. So if trail damage is an issue, we should also ban fit riders. If weight of the bike on the trail is an issue we should also ban DH bikes (similar weight) and also fat riders.

An e-assist bike has no throttle - you have to actually pedal the thing for any assistance.

I'd agree that any bike with a throttle is a motorbike though.