[Closed] E-bikes in sportives

Yes.

Special category though.

I think you are deliberately trolling.

Special category though.

Why does something that isn't a race need categories?

I think you are deliberately trolling.

Why do you say that? Just interested in people's views.

Sportive = not a race = no problem with ebikes.

I might be wrong, but not aware BC have anything to do with Sportives - not that I have checked, just assume they don't.

Do BC ban e-bikes from sportives? Most sportives have nothing to do with BC, surely?

Anyway, no skin off my nose - but that's if people actually want to do it in the first place.

Wonderful idea, would love to see the average definitely-not-racing sportiveur's reaction, given that it's definitely not a race 🙂

Special category though.

"Dernies"?

[troll]But motorbikes have no place in a bicycle race[/troll]

😈

Why does something that isn't a race need categories?

I think to keep the proper cyclists safe.

If someone's too lazy to even learn how to pedal a bike properly, I'd be doubtful if they'd learnt how to handle it down a hill or in a group etc.

It's not a risk worth taking; separate categories and separate start times.

Ride what you like in a sportive it's not as if its a race.

I haven't got an e bike can I do it in my car?

Ride what you like imo. Would seem a bit odd to me but I wouldnt really care.

Do BC ban e-bikes from sportives?

I enquired about the possibility of organising a family leisure event / sportive and was told no e-bikes when asked if they'd be allowed / covered under the provided insurance cover. It was going to be a fairly low key thing, mixed on / offroad and didn't want to exclude anyone who may be interested in riding.

Most sportives have nothing to do with BC, surely?

Lots are.

I'd be doubtful if they'd learnt how to handle it down a hill or in a group etc.

Done a couple of on/off road ones, a few people have been on ebikes

It’s not a race and the law defines them as bicycles. Why wouldn’t they be allowed?

Lots are.

You mean lots are insured through BC? That'd make sense.

Dunno if Cycling UK do event insurance but I know they are pro-ebike, for reasons of inclusion as you alluded to yourself.

would an e bike not be flat after 20 miles

would an e bike not be flat after 20 miles

Only if you whacked it in turbo mode from the off and rode like a dick 🙂

Depend on the power mode used/if it’s used all the time. Reckon mine could do 50+miles if ridden frugally

Plus extra barreries if needed

Starting at the back on an unrestricted one is the only way you’d get me to do one. Sounds like excellent fun.

Can’t see why not as it’s not a race. It’s just a nice day out in the county

Yep, let em in I say

I'll pay good money to the first person to stand in front of Lee Craigie and tell her she didn't win the Etape Loch Ness Sportive.

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Folks with disabilities excepted, I get that people have ebikes because they can't be arsed to put some effort into getting fit. However, I can't understand why a perfectly able-bodied person would want to take part in something that's about a physical challenge if they're not physically challenging themselves?

I'll pay good money to the first person to stand in front of Lee Craigie and tell her she didn't win the Etape Loch Ness Sportive

Travel expenses too?

If all e-biker entrants were confirmed to be limited to 15.5mph, I don't see the problem, in what is essentially supposed to be a social ride and not a race.

They don't hand out awards to "podium" finishers, do they, at a sportive? 😯

One of the biggest issues would be ensuring there weren't secret button combos that derestricted the motor.

[quote=tomhoward ]Depend on the power mode used/if it’s used all the time. Reckon mine could do 50+miles if ridden frugally
Plus extra barreries if needed

I've done a 70+km hilly offroad ride (mid Wales) on my levo and had battery left. I expect that I could get near 100km offroad so imagine it'd be doable on road.

Given the amount of requests to "fit this chipping kit" we get i can't see why not 😕

Last mass-start ride I did had e-bikes. Don't really see the problem. Don't think it was actually called "sportive" but it was a marshalled ride.

There were quite a few people riding e-bikes when I last rode the Maratona dles Dolomites in 2015. Also 2 guys riding them at Tuscany Trails 2016.

If all e-biker entrants were confirmed to be limited to 15.5mph,

You do know they're not [i]limited[/i] to 15.5mph right? That's just the speed the assist stops at...you can still pedal (or freewheel) them faster.

I'm assuming the OP is referring to closed road sportives in particular, because on an open road one there's nothing to stop any Tom, Dick, or Harriet from riding the same route at the same time on any road legal machine they want, so the only thing you could possibly ban them from doing is crossing your 'finishing line'

You do know they're not limited to 15.5mph right? That's just the speed the assist stops at...you can still pedal (or freewheel) them faster.

Quite true but I assume he just meant no de-restricted ebikes, which should be a given from any organisers' POV as they're no longer legally bicycles.

Given the amount of requests to "fit this chipping kit" we get i can't see why not

I hope you respond with a withering stare.

😀

on an open road one there's nothing to stop any Tom, Dick, or Harriet from riding the same route at the same time on any road legal machine they want

Oh, I dunno, I find that accidentally stumbling into a sportive is pretty guaranteed to stop me riding whatever route they're taking 🙂

Anything that annoys the fantasists is fine by me.

It's not a race, so bring it on.

I've done a number of sportives and i always think of them as personal challenges, not races, if you're at the front end, then maybe it is really competitive.

For me it was sub 6 hours for 100, then sub 5 1/2 hours, then sub 5 hours. Then events like Dragon Devil to see if a big lad that lives in Norfolk could ride 180 miles and 5000m of climbing.

Plus when i first moved here, sportives were a way of meeting people and finding some good local routes.

So i think they are what you make of them, i think if you are unfit, it is better to start with 30 mile event, then work up to 50 etc rather than just get straight on an e-bike, but each to there own, it's about enjoying it and getting out, better to ride an e-bike 100 miles than sit on a couch typing furiously at a keyboard

If someone's too lazy to even learn how to pedal a bike properly, I'd be doubtful if they'd learnt how to handle it down a hill or in a group etc.

they'll fit right in then

As has been noted, it's not a race, so I wouldn't have any issues with them being in.

, I can't understand why a perfectly able-bodied person would want to take part in something that's about a physical challenge if they're not physically challenging themselves?

Me neither but thats the world we live in.

in what is essentially supposed to be a social ride and not a race

No their not "supposed" to be purely social rides. You can make them what you want them to be. A good proportion of riders treat them in a very competitive manner. Times are published, and they enjoy comparing their efforts to other like minded riders. A bit like strava leader boards. I wish people would stop sneering at this, if it's not you just do your own thing.

legal e bikes won't be a huge help in sportives unless its very hilly given they cut out at 15 mph giving you just a heavy bike above this speed

legal e bikes won't be a huge help in sportives unless its very hilly given they cut out at 15 mph giving you just a heavy bike above this speed

This is true, but I suppose for some it would just help them get round the course. For others they just don't like being told they can't, so it becomes absolutely the most important thing they should be doing. 🙁

Yeah they should be easy to drop on the flat.

But that doesn't matter as "it's not a race".

JoB - Member
If someone's too lazy to even learn how to pedal a bike properly, I'd be doubtful if they'd learnt how to handle it down a hill or in a group etc.
they'll fit right in then

So can we just confirm, are sportives races then?

So can we just confirm, are sportives races then?

Not in this country for the most part. But lots of people ride them in a competitive manner and good luck to them. I'd say something like the Velethon is a type of race, closed circuit, timed, riders are listed in the results in order of their finishing time. Certainly ticks the boxes of some sort of race.

Its a race disguised to not be one legally so as to avoid insurance / roads policing issues

tjagain - Member
Its a race disguised to not be one legally so as to avoid insurance / roads policing issues

i've done proper road races and i've done sportives, sportives are not in any way races, no matter what the people who treat them as such might think

mrjmt - Member
So can we just confirm, are sportives races then?

IMO a Sportive is a race in the same way that the London Marathon is a race.

If you come up with a definition of a race then you can see if any Sportives measure up to it.

someone wins?

I'll pay good money to the first person to stand in front of Lee Craigie and tell her she didn't win the Etape Loch Ness Sportive.

She didn't win.. it wasn't a race

Plus extra barreries if needed

Great plan Scooby!!

I can't understand why a perfectly able-bodied person would want to take part in something that's about a physical challenge if they're not physically challenging themselves?

They probably wear roller blades on treadmills too 😀

IMO a Sportive is a race in the same way that the London Marathon is a race.

So a race then.

Yes

No.
🙂

If you want to race, go and race.

If you want to pretend a sportive is a race then that's ok too.
We all have fantasies.

Sportive as a race, you guys are having a laugh.

f you want to race, go and race.

If you want to pretend a sportive is a race then that's ok too.
We all have fantasies.

Races come in all shapes and sizes, not sure why thats so hard to understand ?

A Sportive that's a race is a Gran Fondo.

fifeandy - Member

Sportive as a race, you guys are having a laugh.

Gutted that I can't find the photo of the guying "winning" Ride London this year and throwing the ones up as he crosses the line 😀

Did a charity ride on one, Cube FS with slick tyres on it. Was coming back from injury so off the bike, no way I was fit enough at the time. Was pretty close to driving up to have the night out after with my mates (there's a crowd every year with a stop over).

Ended up hanging on to the group in the flat sections @ over 15.5mph and using the lowest assistance mode on the hills to keep me in touch. It was the difference between doing the event and not.

Unless the rider is seriously fit in the first place the battery life is only going to offer a little assistance on the hills and the rest of the time they'll be over the speed where the motor cuts out. Even with a chipped one the battery life would have a hard time to assist a rider all the way round a 60+ mile ride.

on an open road one there's nothing to stop any Tom, Dick, or Harriet from riding the same route at the same time on any road legal machine they want

Depending on the type of road closure order applied for, there may be no legit way to stop anyone just riding the route when it's on "closed" roads.

An Act of Parliament as used by the Jim Clark and Mull motor rallies (when they ran) means the road is absolutely closed; likewise the road closures used on the Isle of Man. In those cases they are not public roads for the duration of the closure, and in particular on the isle of man they will jail you for breeching that in anyway (including walking on it during the closure). The signs put up are quire blunt about it.

A normal local council road closure only restricts the classes of vehicle that can use the road, so they aren't actually road closures, just restrictions, this also means the road traffic act is not suspended, so you could still be done for an RTA offence such as careless/dangerous riding even if the road has been temporarily restricted to "cycles" (not sure of the class) and designated one way if a police officer or other reasonable person sees you as riding as such.

There's also the new type of closure available in England (and Wales?) that is a full closure and suspension of the RTA available to local authorities.

If the RTA is suspended then the pedal assist needn't stop at 15.5mph as you're not covered by it and associated acts. Although the ACU as the government authorizer of Motorbike sport might take an interest in unsanctioned racing.

Had a shot on an E-MTB with "27.5Plus" tyres. Total hoot, only got 36Km out of it, heart rate never got out of zone one, and averaged 15mph;

Nearly spoilt all the strava segments I use to see how I'm doing though, thankfully I spotted the e-bike category in there.

On sportives, hm, depends on the sportive.
the more serious ones, at least have a gap, not so much for the people on eBikes but I can see a fuss being made when a group puts an ebike on the front to draft.
Then again when I did the Etape Loch Ness a few years ago, a good few people thanked me at the end for the tow I gave them along to fort Augustus; so maybe putting the fat boy with loads of leg power on the front is just as bad.

hen again when I did the Etape Loch Ness a few years ago, a good few people thanked me at the end for the tow I gave them along to fort Augustus; so maybe putting the fat boy with loads of leg power on the front is just as bad.

Can relate to this, being 105kg but able to ride 500km in a day, the number of times especially on windy events, i'll look round to find a long line of skinny people "taking shelter" behind me, then as soon as the road turns upwards they all come round me and disappear.... been called "tractor", "perkins" and "windbreak" as nicknames as they've come past!

I often refer to sportives as races. Mainly it's the fun of sitting back and waiting for the faux-outrage "well I'm a proper racer and I can assure you these sportive things are not races" brigade to get all worked up.

I'm interested to know if e-bikes are also creeping into Audaxes. They're not races either, but they are pretty competitive.

Kenny - I suspect the naysayers are the same folk who think that the Rules of the Velominati are for real.

Had a shot on an E-MTB with "27.5Plus" tyres. Total hoot, only got 36Km out of it, heart rate never got out of zone one, and averaged 15mph

On the flip side of this, I went out with a group much, much faster than me last night. I used as little assist as possible to keep up and absolutely buried myself the whole ride. Was totally knackered at the end but kept in with a group on a night ride feeling a lot safer and tackling more technical routes than the gentle ride I'd have had on my own. If they'd have been slower I'd have taken my normal bike out of the van.

Kenny - I suspect the naysayers are the same folk who think that the Rules of the Velominati are for real.

Indeed, though I have to admit my sportive/summer/nice bike has the tyres lined up properly with the valves, I always have my glasses outside my helmet straps and quote Rule 5 quite frequently, though mainly at myself it has to be said.

I do find it funny though that something like the Etape du Tour, which has some of the best amateur riders on the continent isn't technically a race, whereas myself and a few mates seeing who is the fastest from the bottom of the Arthur's Seat climb to the top (I once came third out of sixth; sadly in many ways the pinnacle of my bike racing career) is, if you go by the dictionary definition.

Suspect it's up to the organisers whether or not to allow e-bikes.

If they're sensible they'll provide some kind of distinction in the results. Whether you view a sportive as a race or not, folk are often trying to get the best time they can and compare it against others. If I were running a sportive it would be in my interests to keep these folk happy by making sure their times are as meaningful as possible in context.

Etape du Tour is a race. Sportives on the Continent are often proper races, however, they generally aren't in the UK.

The Sportives I've done in the UK are nothing like a race. That's not to say having a nice social ride, on a scenic route with the odd challenging hill isn't without it merits, but it isn't a race.

If they're sensible they'll provide some kind of distinction in the results

That assumes people declare being on an e-bike on the entry form....

That's not to say having a nice social ride, on a scenic route with the odd challenging hill isn't without it merits, but it isn't a race.

Oh I'd love to see you say that to someone like Rob Jebb just after he's recorded another fastest time at the Fred Whitton.

Of course they aren't technically races though. Would cost the organisers far too much money, and effort, to have them categorised as such. Doesn't mean people aren't trying to ride faster than others, just for a bit of fun. Like if a proper pro racer was to take part in say a Cat 1 race. Wouldn't be a proper race to him, just a bit of a laugh.

Sportives are what you want them to be. For me it's often seeing if I can get a faster time than a few other mates. Other times (like the Fred) it's a personal challenge to see if I can finish.

Another thing that often strikes me as strange. Sportives attract a lot of sniffy "oh they aren't races" comments from "proper" riders.

However I never see sportive riders (who've often done events like the Etape or the Fred) look at Cat 1/2/3/4 races and say "pah, call that a tough route".

What's a 'proper' rider then?

However I never see sportive riders (who've often done events like the Etape or the Fred) look at Cat 1/2/3/4 races and say "pah, call that a tough route".

Possibly because they realise that Cat1/2/3/4 races are less about the route and more about ripping your fellow competitor to pieces?

What's a 'proper' rider then?

In this context someone who's done a couple of cat4 crit's, somehow not been blown out the back and now consider themselves racing gods, far above lowly sportive prolls 😉

Possibly because they realise that Cat1/2/3/4 races are less about the route and more about ripping your fellow competitor to pieces?

I do know that, I was just partly being cheeky and partly responding to that

nice social ride, on a scenic route with the odd challenging hill

I've no desire (or ability) to race myself, but (despite my remarks) I have a huge amount of admiration for those who do, both pro and amateur. It's just the attitudes of some I can't be bothered with.

I recall watching Chris Hoy winning a keirin at the Olympics one year and thinking, "this is pish, any charlatan can ride on nice smooth planks of wood, this guy needs to test himself on the Monster Hell Of The Quite Nasty Hill At The Back Of The Village route" and then making a nice cup of tea in an Assos mug. I felt pretty good that day, let me tell you.

When you've done a 2/3 road race of 60 miles with an average speed of 27mph and attacks going off every few minutes then a mixed bunch of 'Sunday' riders, straggled all over the place and stopping every 20 miles for a feed zone break all seems a bit tame.
However these things can be raced in a sense and as a competitive sort I would ride as fast as possible if I did them.
As for e-bikes, apart from medical reasons I despise the modern trend to try make life easier all the time. My joy of riding comes from the fact it's hard and I have to work to get better at it. I'd generally regard an e-biker at a sportive as a bit of an idiot with more money than guts.
Doesn't really come onto my radar though as proper racing has loads of rules and the only e-biker I've come across was whilst training at Swinley and I enjoyed giving chase and trying to keep up.

I recall watching Chris Hoy winning a keirin at the Olympics one year and thinking, "this is pish, any charlatan can ride on nice smooth planks of wood,

I know what you mean. Like that Adam Peaty bloke that thinks he's special just 'cos he can swim 100m. When I was in primary school I retrieved a brick from the bottom of the deep end. And I was in my pyjamas!!

Oh I'd love to see you say that to someone like Rob Jebb just after he's recorded another fastest time at the Fred Whitton.

Quite happy to take that challenge - This is the same Rob Jebb who's raced at elite world championship level, remember, not some 2nd cat chopper! I very much doubt that he sees the Fred Whitton as anything other than a hard training ride for personal satisfaction.