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What would I do? Well I'd take the opportunity to leave them to their devices and enjoy some peace and quiet riding through the hills on my own. But I'm an antisocial git. Maybe you like these people or something 🙂 In which case you might as well just "embrace the future" and buy an e-bike.
Seriously, it's clear that a lot of people mainly ride for the joy of the downhill sections, with health benefits and seeing the countryside, being bonuses. On an e-bike you can do exactly the same amount of work (so health benefits are the same) in the same amount of time, but travel further. So you see more scenery and enjoy more downhill sections. Doesn't sound so bad, if that's your thing.
same amount of work in same time? no chance.
That's the kind of thing that will bugger our trail access.
yup thought the same.
The Giant my Dad has is the Dirt-e +2 and for the record it's pedal assist.
When he's on private land....
http://www.ebiketuning.com/shop/product/49-badassebikes-box-3-3-for-yamaha.html
Don't know why the UK is 16mph .... 18 or 20 would be just perfect.
Want 🙂
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http://ebike-mtb.com/en/first-look-mondraker-e-prime-hardtail-out-of-alu-and-carbon/
*bookmarks thread to respond to after work*
In the poker world, a lot of new players came thru in tournaments, having been playing 5 or 6 games at a time for months "on-line".
Ebikes are going to be like that, they are going to give riders twice the amount of riding at places like Aston hill and will quickly be adopted by all the neighsayers as their skill levels are surpassed by the e-boys.
Funnily enough its us old gits mucking about in the woods - who will be the last to change
You mean 99% will get in way over their heads and crash & burn? 😯In the poker world, a lot of new players came thru in tournaments, having been playing 5 or 6 games at a time for months "on-line".Ebikes are going to be like that
OP - Get them to club in and buy you one if they wish to continue enjoying your guiding services.
Except mountain biking is absolutely nothing like sitting round a table with cards in your hand... closer comparison would be a computer gamer having a go at the TT cos they can win at Rossi: The Game. 😉
s1255 comments about the injured rider getting back out with the group describes me pretty exactly.
I could leave most the group for dead on most trails but where's the fun in that?
I choose to ride mostly on minimum boost just so I can keep with the pack.
Okay, I do sometimes hit the cheat button and Turbo up some hills but the main time I use the Turbo button is so I can push other riders along after they have mad a mechanical, injury or just bonked.
I would not have tried to push a guy all the way up from the Redbridge flyover up to my house at 15mph without boost. Because I could we got home in 5-10 minutes instead of an hour. That was a real unforseen benefit.
Want
Want more
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I will see your WANT and raise you GOT!!!
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Where's the electrickery live in that WCA?
an e-bike will let you get loads more actual riding done
But will it actually be riding?
Only half serious, I've really changed my mind on e-bikes after hearing from people who've used them.
The payoff when one of them breaks down is going to be glorious tbh.
..might have just spoken to my local Mondraker dealer.. They have an e-crafty demo bike
Ask them why the **** they didn't call it the "Craft-E"?
Amateurs.
[i]Where's the electrickery live in that WCA? [/i]
Bugger, wrong picture. I am sure I posted the E-Genuis. Just a mo...
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Google auto correct e-Genius to Genius
Anyway, you can compare the two models. +£600 for the E version
Nah, much prefer the Spesh
Looking at the two I agree the Spesh looks nicer
Still the Scott rides brilliantly and really disguises the weight and makes me very happy.
Back riding with friends when I want, faster if I feel like it, dawdling along when I don't, providing uplift / push home service when required.
eBikes don't take the skill or enjoyment out of biking. A bit like full suss doesn't. Or SS. Or Fat Bikes. Or life bikes. Or Trials. Or what ever else.
They are just another option.
Thinking a bit more about it and the OP.
If your mates ride with you on eBikes and you are on a luddite bike (joke) then they can quite easily slow to your pace for the hills or even assist. I do that on the Thursday night ride.
On the descents and the flats the 15mph limit kicks in and it is equal playing field.
For general riding they are pretty similar to non-powered bikes, just a bit easier.
It is not like your mates are all on XC bikes and you are on a trials bike where there are significant functional differences.
Get faster, or get them to turn down the assist would seems the 2 viable options to me.
I'm guessing at some point a double round of pneumonia as an infant, years of bronchitis, 20+ years on the fags and old age will catch up with me - lung capacity isn't the greatest now at 44. I'll definitely be getting one when I find I'm really struggling
Would be ideal for taking the youngsters on a long ride. There were some at the QECP demo day, I wanted to try a Plus bike and thought if my kid could get a ebike we could go out together. Didn't have ebikes smal enough though.
The guy on the stand said he'd been using the e at Bike Park Wales and they were great downhill. Can't for the life of me remember what brand they were though. They looked pretty good (for ebikes). Might've been Haibike?
One of the reasons that have made me buy an ebike is BPW.
I live close enough to jump in the car and have a ride up ticket only.
On my normal bike I can only manage 3 or 4 climbs before I am too tired to climb again.
I stick to the blues, so the trails are quite smooth(ish).
Having an ebike (arrives tomorrow), will give me more climbing and descending runs. Trying to get a space on the uplift means planning about 6 weeks in advance, as opposed to just turning up and riding.
Felt Lebowske
It's a fat ebike!
I also have a Lauf Carbonara fork which will be fitted after a couple of rides.
Just want to get the bike and go out at the moment.
[i]Looking forward to the full report with pix[/i]
Which forum though? 😉
Lebowske wins just for the name. You just know they came up with it while off their tits. "Aw man, I've got this great name for a bike". Possibly they came up with it several times, but forgot.
That's the kind of thing that will bugger our trail access.
An important point & I wonder if it's being missed?
Are you technically allowed an e-bike on a bridleway etc?
Legal ebike said are restricted to 15 mph.
You are ok to ride them anywhere where you can ride a normal bike.
It's just pedal assist.
Legal ebike said are restricted to 15 mph.
Lets hope that no naughty boys & girls find ways to derestrict them then hey?
[url= https://www.imba.com/news/eMTB-early-study-results ]E bikes & erosion[/url]
So far, no more than a hypothesis but worth bearing in mind nonetheless.
As long as no one fits one of these https://www.badassebikes.com/en/badass-box/bosch/typ3-4-bosch/a-114/ or posts a link to them I think we should be fine
IMBA developed these hypotheses for this small initial field study, conducted at one site, with one set of environmental conditions:Physical impacts to trails from eMTBs will likely fall somewhere between those caused by mountain bikes and motorcycles.
We expect that eMTBs may lead to more soil displacement under certain conditions, such as through turns, including bermed turns; on ascents and descents; and where there are abrupt changes in trail conditions.
Well say goodbye to trail access when the red sock brigade get hold of this.
I think the trail erosion argument is a little overplayed.
When climbing you are still restricted to a theoretical 15 mph, assuming you still have the skill and fitness to achieve this.
In reality, someone pushing it out climbing will replicate the fastest riders climbing on Strava. Therefore, I don't see this as too much of a problem.
Many people have said that when descending the ebike is not as agile and flickable etc, which I tend to agree with, so the ebike will probably not be the fastest down the hill.
The percentage of ebike so used at trail centres will still be very low, less than 5% at worst.
Not really a viable case for the red sock lot, probably still not listen to a rational argument though.
[i]I think the trail erosion argument is a little overplayed[/i]
I honestly don't see how your subsequent paragraphs have anything to do with trail erosion.... and trail centres aren't somewhere that concern the 'red sock' lot at all, so not sure why you mention them.
Fair enough.
But there will still be a very low percentage of ebikes being used for serious off road riding.
It should be noted that that study is not yet complete, though it has been able to surmise that the premise (so far) is sound ergo the extra erosion caused by e bikes is something to be considered when managing trails & their use.
We've got to share 99% of the trails with other users so lets be responsible & not F it up for others...
Because, you know, that's just really fing selfish..
I reckon e-bike users will fit into a few different categories
1 - People who like the idea of riding but don't really want to do it so buy a nice big expensive bike to do it for them.
2 - People who really do like riding and want to continue to do it even though their bodies are trying to stop them
3 - People in hilly areas who want to enjoy lots of DH stuff without waiting for uplifts*
I suspect the majority will be in the first group and cause little of no erosion on the trails. Group 2 won't cause much more erosion that if they were on non-electric bikes. Group 3 will cause more erosion because they will ride the trails more often but are also more likely to be doing this on bike trails.
I do think they are a great idea - I just want to see them used responsibly.
I can't see that e-bikes will cause extra erosion. It could be less because looser climbing will be ridden seated with less loss of traction.
There is theoretically a blurring of the lines between mtbs and off-road motorbikes, but again that would only be an issue in the small number of cases where ebikes are derestricted and hopefully will be dealt with on the basis that these are motorised vehicles rather than MTBs.
Dicks will be dicks regardless of whether they're battery-powered or not.
The benefits of ebikes are massive to people who have health problems, or even in cases where there is a difference in fitness between two people who would like to ride together - eg couples, parents and children.
It will piss off the KOM obsessives, though. 🙂
Maybe they could introduce an e-bike tax, a bit like the sugar tax where the money goes to the forestry to help maintain the trails
Great idea if you're physically impaired or getting that DH rig up the mountain.
Like others stated, prefer to ride up hill for fitness and XC challenge.
Would be handy if you're old and ride with grandkids I guess?
As a rider and owner of an e-bike and former trail builder I don't think they do any more trail damage than an unassisted bike with a fit strong rider. As long as the bike is one of the lower road legal pedelec. The pedelec works on pedal rotation and torque. The harder and faster you pedal the more the bike gives assistance. In a situation of wheel slip, the motor reduces assistance as it senses a loss of pedal pressure. The Bosch system checks 1,000 times a second and adjust assistance. In my experience it's very responsive and I've only experienced very little slippage and no more than when before my health issue I was able to create riding unassisted.
I can't see that e-bikes will cause extra erosion. It could be less because looser climbing will be ridden seated with less loss of traction.
If the average power of an everyday rider is higher - and that power is applied more quickly - of course it's going to cause more erosion.
And it's not just that, it's the image of a battery and motor which will make every red socked weirdo irrationally hate them no matter how much erosion they cause.
As a rider and owner of an e-bike and former trail builder I don't think they do any more trail damage than an unassisted bike with a fit strong rider. As long as the bike is one of the lower road legal pedelec. The pedelec works on pedal rotation and torque.
The point being that most MTBers aren't strong and fit, now if every riding spot or family spot (eg Rutland Water where you are in close contact with other users) is filled with people hooning round at 15mph....what do people think is going to be the outcome of this?
Also, why are you guys so sure that derestricted bikes will be a small minority? It seems easy and cheap enough to do, no ones going to be able to tell unless you blast past a park ranger at 25mph.
Also, why are you guys so sure that derestricted bikes will be a small minority?
Being as it will be pretty obvious to the manufacturer (either by obvious tampering or diagnostic's), and you risk loosing your warranty if you do, with a £500+ for a motor I think you'd be pretty stupid to do it.. Both the e-bikes my m8's own (bosch and Yamaha) have been back for warranty work, and both are much less than 6months old.. That said stupid ppl will always be stupid.
[i]Tom_W1987[/i] Also, why are you guys so sure that derestricted bikes will be a small minority?
I've got no intention of modifying my e-bike. I find the 15 mph assistance limit ample for 99% of the time I am riding off road. I don't want to void my warranty, or shorten the lifespan of the system.
But more importantly I've always ridden responsible and legally and will continue to do so e-bike or not. There are alot of legal implications if you start derestricting bikes (tax, insurance, helmet, registation plates etc.)
[i]z1ppy [/i]oth the e-bikes my m8's own (bosch and Yamaha) have been back for warranty work, and both are much less than 6months old.
What was the warranty work/problem out of interest? I've got a Spark E-Genius 910 with the Bosch Performance CX, I am hoping it's going to be reliable?
[i]Being as it will be pretty obvious to the manufacturer (either by obvious tampering or diagnostic's), and you risk loosing your warranty if you do[/i]
If you do not touch the motor or computer in any way but simply fit a dongle over the magnet to overcome the legal restriction (purely on private land obviously) why will this affect the warranty?
The Bosch 250W and 350W units are the same thing, just one is restricted for one category of bike and the other is not restricted so fits into another category of bike.
It is not as if you are making the motor work harder or putting more power through it, you are just removing an arbitrary speed restriction so moving into the higher speed bike category.
I can see this has legal implications, just not warranty ones.
Wipeout - it was the previous generations motor, and the plastic case was failing apart on the drive side, they did suggest (but did it under warranty) it had taken a bash but in all honesty the only bashing it taken is stuff bouncing up from the ground. The yamaha issue was more concerning...
WCA
..simply fit a dongle over the magnet..
I'm unaware of how that works TBH so can't answer, my friends looked at moving the wheel sensor (as you did try) but thought it would become more susceptible to damage.. and no ones want to pedal these without the motor.
I can see this has legal implications, just not warranty ones.
I understand what you're saying regarding the 250/350w, but Bosch is going to be keen not to encourage dongles and modifications or pay for warranty repairs.
I've worked in IT forensics, and even if you can remove the dongle/chip without leaving a trace, the usage statistics which these devices are sure to store and Bosch will want to inspect are going to show anomolies.
With a dongle they'll probably see that the battery drain rate to speed and pedal cadence and load is higher than the norm which will give them suspicion.
Z1PPY
Wipeout - it was the previous generations motor, and the plastic case was failing apart on the drive side, they did suggest (but did it under warranty) it had taken a bash but in all honesty the only bashing it taken is stuff bouncing up from the ground.
That's a relief, I bought the Bosch system on the understanding/hope it would be a more robust system.
But agree the outer plastic cosmetic case is a bit flimsy.
I fit in the number 2 camp
Had major back surgery a year ago and just don't have the power
I used to
Been fat biking for the last year to get back into things and I've Demo'd 3 e bikes so far
The Scott E Genius 710 + put a huge grin on my face, but it comes at a price
I'm currently trying to work out whether a super light carbon fatty or a 140mm e bike is the future
At the moment the Scott & the Cube Stereo HPA 500+ are in the lead
I still fancy a 907 whiteout tho
There will always be a minority dead set against / for and the shades of grey between
Just get out and ride
My Wife wants one now. I want her to have one but there are no Cube E bikes left to buy in 17 inch farma size.
so what other make do good ebikes for around £2000 hard tail Mtb
I always thought of cycling as a simple escape from all the electronic jiggery-pokery of modern life, an affordable, economical and environmentally friendly challenge of man Vs terrain.
I have no doubt that ebikes looks like a hoot, but they are a prohibitively expensive to most(certainly me)....I could absolutely see the point for those with disabilities and illness, but if you're just to lazy to cycle up the hill one more time, nope...not right.
And what about the environmental cost of the batteries?
TBH your mistaken to think that the production of any modern bicycle is particularly environmentally friendly Dumbot, obviously e-bikes less so, but do you really think that anything made of Aliminium or shipped half way round the world has any real green creditials. Electronics on bikes is here (gears/suspension, even you lights to go night riding!) & only going to become more prevalent. Your comment sounds like the same old, I don't want progress but I still want my 11speed, dropper post, great suspension.. It falls flat in reality. That said, why cannot e-bikes be seen as green, in that they have more chance of getting ppl out of cars, than a 'dumb' one does, electricity 'can' be produced in environmentally friendly ways. If you want to get back to nature/closer to nature, go for a walk, just don't use your car to get there 😉
Sort of agree with z1ppy here.
Just bought my first ebike, and I think its relatively simple.
Have taken the Bluto suspension fork off , not even used, fitted a Lauf fork, so no complications there.
Hardtail fat bike.
Probably take the dropper off also, less faff, its not meant to be a super gnaar bike, more relaxed riding without worrying about fast times.
I have solar panels, so some / most of the charging will be free (if the sun decides to come out).
I just hope the electric mid drive motor behaves itself.
I was eyeing up the Spesh Levo very recently as a way to get back out in the mountains. I couldn't give a shit what anyone thinks (especially cycling snobs) - if i did i'd have given up cycling years ago. I admit the expense was off putting but the Levo is pretty special and looks like a lot of thought has went into the design. I was lucky that i recovered enough to get back on the horse under my own power but it's good to know that there are options for those who need it, or just fancy having one for shits and giggles.
My issue with the Levo, though I will admit it does look great, is that the motor is an in-house unit (ala Rotwild) & look what happened last time they took a specialist part inhouse. Their suspension dreams dried up fast and owners were left with suspension that could only be serviced inhouse if at all.
I'm hoping shimano's late entry e-motor will boost the market into better lighter bikes in the not too distant future
The Specialised Levo has a great looking intergrated battery and motor. But I would have concerns about the durability of the motor. That's why I went for the Bosch system which has been around for a while and is manufactured by a company with a good reputation for engineering and reliability.
I keep looking at this [url= http://justebikes.co.uk/products/rotwild-x-fs-27-5-evo/ ]Rotwild[/url] for the simple reason it looks right and the electrical tech spec is as good as it gets IMO.