E-Bike vibe check

Yep, I've been having exactly the same thoughts recently. Even the sneaky lunch break rides that became possible from my door with the Eeb have lost their appeal, as I have come to resent the heaviness of my bike. 

Also the joy of suffering has been missed and I want to pedal hard again. 

I'm in the process of building up an analog bike again, but I'll keep the eeb for a few months just in case...

Anyway, what’s the general vibe out there?

 

Anyone feel the same or is it just me?

I feel exactly the same. Admittedly I never did the middle bit of buying and using an ebike, but everything else you say rings true.

Got a similar problem now trying to find a gravel bike without stupid electric gears. 

Had a similar issue last month trying to find a big full susser. One if the bikes I was looking at had something called a Flight Attendant on it. According to the bullshit this was apparently supposed to be a good thing..... Errrrr

Ended up buying a 3 year old model just to avoid that sort of shit 

I felt like that shortly after I got mine. Especially the "less rewarding" side. I got over it. Mainly I think because I met a lady, who bought herself an ebike and we go riding together. I love that.

But also, I found my ebike to be too powerful for that sort of riding. Solo riding it's great, I really have fun on it. But, then I saw a less powerful, lighter eeb for a great price and bought that (see "write-off" thread 🙂 ). 

I can ride without a motor, but heart nonsense means it's just too painful - the fun does not outweigh the effort, which is why I bought one in the first place. I still have my normal bikes and use them for the occasional quick blast. But my future is with the eeb.

I prefer riding my proper bike over the ebike and I'm not entirely sure why but there is definitely something better about it even though I tend to ride the same sort of stuff just less of it. I do still enjoy getting out on the ebike and being able to ride the trails in any order I chose rather than having to piece together a route in my head where say I do trail x rather than y as the climb up is a bit easier I can just do both. Having the ebike has also meant that those days when I wasn't feeling that up for it or it's blowing a gale that I still get out though where pre-ebike I'd have made my excuses and not bothered.

Nope.  Riding an analogue MTB uphill sucks.  Too slow.

Early days but I absolutely love my ebike, not only for the getting up and to places quickly but I am also a big fan of the handling and it jumps really really well too 🙂 getting to repeat brilliant downhills many more times is a gift! I still ride my Tyee at least twice a week and that is also a fantastic bike. Both brilliant in different ways. And now the Tyee feels like a super lightweight too  🤣 

I definitely prefer the feel of my HB916 over my Kenevo SL for everything except the climbing.  Both bikes are built to a similar spec, both are mullet with the same wheels and tyres, etc., and both have GX AXS.

Part of the handling difference is the sizes as the S4 KSL is bigger than the H2, and part is the battery and motor adding to the bike mass.

However, I wouldn't be upset if the KSL was my only bike.  It pedals really well with the motor off, and it's an absolute blast downhill.  I know that's not the point of an e-bike, but what the hell - it's only a small 320 Wh battery.

Next e-bike will be a Forbidden Druid CorE - best of both worlds

I sold mine after 8 months and don't regret it for a second.. well, a few seconds, sometimes, usually 7/8 of the way up the hill at FoD.

It dropped my fitness for sure. 

Nah, loving mine. Early days, 5 months in and it's perfect for what I use it for, so far. Definitely has a place going forward. I still ride other, non e-bikes bikes more often and I'm not quite using the e-bike once a week.

My default for riding from the house is still my Cascade dropbar rigid as it works best on the tame local trails I use for those sort of rides. Default for MTBing for me is still a short-travel FSer that I ride both in a group of (mostly) non e-bikers and on solo rides. At times it feels painfully slow on the climbs compared to my e-bike, but that's not noticeable on the group rides where it's more about the social than anything else - it's a different ride experience rather than worse IMO. Difference with the e-bike is I manage more descending and fun trails in the same time as my normal bike, making it perfect when I'm hammering out a ride between family life.

For me (66 and been ebiking for about 7/8 years), it’s a winner. It helps me get round the frustration of reducing abilities combined with more retirement time. It’s letting me do what I could do 30/35 years ago (*map based xc explorer who likes seeing views, trees and places), that’s not the same for any of my other sports ( windsurfing and surfing replaced by easier sup, football is now walking football, now do seniors at tennis and doing pickleball, gave up hockey as too slow, ), years ago a great day out was 30-50 miles, flask, sarnie or cafe, thanks to e-bikes it still is.

Absolutely nothing against them, but currently not for me.

I live on the south coast, so I rarely ride challenging terrain. I get irritated by any kind of complication and by-having to charge things (even charging lights in winter and kitting up in cold/wet weather gear annoys me). The only tech I'm reliant on is gears, suspension forks and dropper posts. I've got a short travel full suss I do like riding, but often my happiest rides are on a hardtail with fast rolling tyres, preferably straight out the door in warm weather carrying at little as possible.

If I lived somewhere with big mountains and no uplifts, I'm sure I'd get one pretty quickly. 

I've only had mine ~8 weeks and I've not been able to ride it as often as I'd like for three of those so far due to a 2-week respiratory infection in early April and an ongoing 8-day respiratory infection, but for me it's been a gamechanger.

From summer '17 to October '22, I used to regularly head out from east Southampton to do 25-65 mile loops to climb several little hills as fast as I could manage Apr-Nov, to the likes of Butser; South Harting; Warren Corner; Milland Hill etc. Usually at least three times a week, typically 8+ hours a week, on top of being a postie at the time.

But like other long covid sufferers, my fitness and stamina took a huge hit and you could count the number of times I've covered the low end of that distance without hill efforts over the last 2.75 years on two hands (and when I did them, I often paid for it later with post exercise malaise).

I've probably done more 20+ mile outdoor rides since mid April in those five active weeks on the ebike, than the rest of Oct '22 to Apr '25 put together on my road bike and no major fatigue crash so far. Being able to do ~5 hours a week and reach those rural lanes and countryside again has been wonderful.

Being able to take hire eMTBs off campus at Longleat Center Parcs both last September and March this year opened my eyes to what an ebike could do to help me and finding the £1250 bargain GT eGrade Bolt gravel ebike at Pauls Cycles was a Brucey bonus!

I feel exactly the same. Admittedly I never did the middle bit of buying and using an ebike, but everything else you say rings true.

+1, it's the same with uplift riding, it's fun, but at some point I get bored and just want some type-2 climbing fun to feel a sense of reward.  Especially after 3+ runs on the same track. Like the OP said, it loses some of it's shine if you can ride every trail in one ride.

I'm sure XC bikes / hardtails will be the next big thing.

Is your E-bike to E-asy?

Is your gnarpoon making everything too smooth?

Is your gravel bike deliberately hard work?

The answer to all these things and more is 'a bike'. Not a pointlessly contrived niche machine, a 40lb monster truck, or overcomplicated piece of tech. 'A bike', modern geometry, a bit of travel up front, gears that just work without a charging cable, and probably sub 25lb for not much cash.

It's probably 20 years since we hit peak-inbred and you couldn't turn up to a ride without at least one no-frills* logo'd simple XC bike being there.  That's got to mean it's due a comeback. 

*this also means there's a whole generation now who probably don't know what Kwik-Save was, let alone the working class indignity of having no-frills crisps in your packed lunch when your mate had Smiths Salt'n'shake or Walkers 

Posted by: mattrockwell

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Absolutely nothing against them, but currently not for me.

I live on the south coast, so I rarely ride challenging terrain. I get irritated by any kind of complication and by-having to charge things (even charging lights in winter and kitting up in cold/wet weather gear annoys me). The only tech I'm reliant on is gears, suspension forks and dropper posts. I've got a short travel full suss I do like riding, but often my happiest rides are on a hardtail with fast rolling tyres, preferably straight out the door in warm weather carrying at little as possible.

If I lived somewhere with big mountains and no uplifts, I'm sure I'd get one pretty quickly. 

Same here. I’ve got AXS gearing, and on my last ride the derailleur battery started acting up. The app showed a full charge, but it was basically dead and it ended up ruining the whole ride. That incident, along with a few other tech-related issues, is what brought me to this point. Honestly, I feel like I’m just done with batteries, apps, and motors.

Bit of a tangent, but I recently read that Garmin is planning to restrict access to certain features in their app unless you’re on a specific subscription tier. And car companies like BMW can already enable or disable features in your vehicle based on what subscription you’ve paid for. It’s wild. I really think we’re not far off from seeing the same kind of thing happen with e-bikes.

Went from full to half fat then this 👍

Orbea Rise is in for a service, Curtis on the Quantocks last week was a rude awakening! 🙄

I just can’t ever see myself getting an e bike. I like the pain. I like realising I need to work harder. I like the rewards. Isnt that what riding a bike always was? Unadulterated simple joy. Almost unlike anything else. 

Nope - 7 years on an ebike and still loving it massively.

I still ride normal bikes though - this time last year I was probably riding normal bikes more than the ebike. At the moment though the ebike is getting most of the attention. Most of my riding mates have now got them now too

Posted by: yoluka

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I like the pain. I like realising I need to work harder. I like the rewards. Isnt that what riding a bike always was?

Yeah, that's what I used to love. Fighting up a tough climb, using all your energy, then recovering at the top to enjoy the descent. But when your physical health stops you from recovering at the top and it's all you can do to hang onto the bars and roll the descents, it stops being rewarding and is just pain. And that's why an ebike doesn't feel rewarding sometimes. You just have to get into a different mindset of what a ride is. Maybe you'll understand one day. Maybe you won't. If not, lucky you 🙂

I’ve had mine about 8 months. Love it. I got it when fitness was low and it’s got me stronger and fitter than I’ve been for years. 

Just about every ride I do double what I would have done on an analogue mtb . I get home knackered in my whole body, not just my legs.

What I really like is that the bike is more capable DH than an analogue mtb that I would buy. I just wouldn’t ride an analogue mtb with 160 travel, DH ish tyres and slacker geometry. Beauty of the ebike is that all those negatives on the ups are negated.

I admit I half wish i could try an analogue bike again but I bet I wouldn’t enjoy it as much.

One thing I have noticed is that many people who buy emtbs can’t buy them for ‘fitness’. I am regularly top 5% on Strava uphill KOMs which I find odd given I would class myself mega fit, and I’m not on a full fat emtb 

Bought the first one in 2017

Still ride both bikes, usually 50/50 this year 70/30, and still get a buzz out of both

I really like my Levo - have had it almost seven years and although it’s only had one away trip to gnarlier trails (where it was epic), it’s been fun on local singletrack, lapping steeper local stuff, doing XC rides when the weather is being silly (v windy or snowy), and has made my on/off-road commute quicker, funner and allowed me to adjust my effort to my mood/energy level. However…

…for the last three years most rides (bar commuting) have been on my Moxie singlespeed hardtail. It still feels fast uphill because it’s a singlespeed so it’s pretty much go fast or walk, it’s got such a great balance of feedback and sensation and liveliness vs confidence and smoothness (great geometry, nice steel frame and 160mm of well controlled fork). And I don’t feel I’m going so fast I’m going to die if it all goes wrong downhill - a long travel full-sus ebike like my Levo (170f 157r) has such high limits!

Nope, been ebike MTBs only for 7 years now. Also a South Coast dweller but there are so many local trails that I can't ride them all on one 750wh battery charge. The climbs are bloody steep too and after a few laps on an analogue I'm destroyed and the downs are far less fun. I also prefer the handling, gets bounced off line less and I like they way they jump (with limited talent). Much harder to bunny hop though!

I do get the bit about purity and all that, if I didn't have a nice road bike as well I probably would have bought another analogue MTB by now, and then regretted it. That said I have Di2 and a Garmin radar on the roadie so I am clearly a bit of a sucker for technology. Draw the line at electric gears on MTBs though.

Draw the line at electric gears on MTBs though.

It’s the one thing I love on my emtB, not quite a game changer, but it is brilliant hammering in to a corner, change down 2-3 gears without having to pedal, going downhill and not having to pedal to change gear (maybe one of the few benefits of the Shimano motor and Di2 😂)

Same here. I’ve got AXS gearing, and on my last ride the derailleur battery started acting up. The app showed a full charge, but it was basically dead and it ended up ruining the whole ride. That incident, along with a few other tech-related issues, is what brought me to this point. Honestly, I feel like I’m just done with batteries, apps, and motors.

Check the pogo pins on your derailleur, I had these symptoms, replaced the battery which did not help, did some searching and found that the pogo pins can fail.  I followed this guide and after investing in a soldering iron, third hand tool and a pack of pins am back up and running again. Was my first attempt at soldering since GCSE DT. https://www.mtbr.com/threads/sram-axs-derailleur-pogo-pin-replacement-guide.1237474/  

Had one for a few months before it was stolen. For some reason I was more apprehensive about dropping/damaging it than my other bikes so it affected my riding style. I was worried that it would make me lazy and therefore less fit and coming back from the Peaks was boring. After it disappeared I got an Epic Evo which has been an absolute delight. Amongst other things I do a weekly group ride in the Peak, some electric some acoustic, and everyone is happy in their niche. Managed to lose 10lbs since March and that wouldn't have happened on the Ebike.

Posted by: gavinnn

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Anyway, what’s the general vibe out there?

Anyone feel the same or is it just me?

Nope. In short.

I have 3 bikes, a big travel, full fat ebike, a longer travel heavy duty trail bike & an XC/DC bike. The only two I ride regularly are the XC & the ebike. 

I’ve never really ridden for fitness, as I do other stuff, but still able (probably not happy to now) tap out a 2000m climbing day so im not unfit, but I get no joy in climbing to ride trails, it’s a vessel to the good bits, and on a human powered bike, it’s really, really tedious. The XC bike gets used for XC laps & the middle bike usually when we go abroad, but as we tend to mostly go to Europe & drive now, I’m even questioning why I need it for that, as I mostly ride the ebike there too.

I’ve never ridden to go out and do big adventure rides, as it doesn’t interest me, XC im done in a couple of hours, trail rides I’m done in 3/4 hours & otherwise I’m out at lunch just bashing out turbo laps.

Does my fitness suffer on the ebike? Yes if I’m lazy and let the bike do all the work. Otherwise no, my Garmin ‘load’ is as high on an ebike as it is on a normal bike if I work for it, which is what I tend to do.

Im at the point with them now that I feel a decent ebike is the better descending bike now too (it’s certainly faster). 

Id give every bike up before the ebike if I had to make a choice.

Posted by: BillMC

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Had one for a few months before it was stolen. For some reason I was more apprehensive about dropping/damaging it than my other bikes so it affected my riding style. I was worried that it would make me lazy and therefore less fit and coming back from the Peaks was boring. After it disappeared I got an Epic Evo which has been an absolute delight. Amongst other things I do a weekly group ride in the Peak, some electric some acoustic, and everyone is happy in their niche. Managed to lose 10lbs since March and that wouldn't have happened on the Ebike.

Dropped by my local store a few weeks back and sat on an Epic EVO, fell in love with it. If/when my Kenevo SL sells I'll probably get a short travel full susser like one of those instead of a a big enduro rig. They seem like a lot of fun and crazy light too!

I'm always flirting with my first potential E MTB purchase

i ride my top fuel, i love it, the lightness and efficiency... it's just fast enough up the climbs and just capable enough down them, HOWEVER, it can't cover all bases on my regular rides, give me winter or some of the super steeps and it's not much fun... So i have the Banshee Spitfire, it covers everything, but it's not as efficient up hill... And it's even more of a chore in the winter.. heavier tyres, claggy mud, wet weather gear etc etc..So i'm regularly contemplating a Fuel Exe, mullet it, 160mm fork, the 100% correct tyres for the worst conditions i ride...But i also love the Banshee and would be heart broken shifting it and absorbing its depreciation

I don't really want a FF bike, I drop fitness quickly, it takes me a few months of spring and summer to get back to happy every year

I'm sure XC bikes / hardtails will be the next big thing.

Well I've just got a mint secondhand one for about half the price of an ebike's range extender, and I've been absolutely loving it.

It does weigh about 27lbs (with the dropper I added) though.

I do wonder if I'm part of a trend of MTBers trying gravel and then realising that they'd have a lot more fun on an XC bike 😀

Maybe some will go from eebs to XC bikes as well? Since they're less of a chore to climb on.

I'm still in the honeymoon period, the magic is still there for me

• Turbo rides after work, clocking up over 1,500m elevation in just over 2hours is very satisfying. 
• Weekend two battery rides where in Turbo I can clock up 3,200m of elevation! This is the real magic and where the ebike opens up a ride which I cannot physically do on my normal bike.  
• I'm riding more trails and I'm feeling fresher on the downs. I'm loving it. 

There is a shadow looming over me though:

• My fitness has dropped. Riding the muscle bike now feels like the brakes are on and I cannot do the big rides unassisted I used to really enjoy. 
• I'm being less social. I'm addicted to the Turbo, I'm not interested in slowing down to ride with other people at the moment. 
• Generally the weight isn't an issue when riding, except for when things get really steep. I fear this pig of a bike is waiting to seriously injure me as soon as this spell of super dry weather ends and it gets a bit more slippery. 

Bought an eBike about 6 months ago and love it. It's for specific uses though. Fours hours round Grizedale off piste on Saturday was a hoot. Big mountain days out and self uplift more bang for your day out. I ride the easier stuff on a gravel bike and enjoy that as well.  Hardtail on local group rides in the week keep me fit and I use it for bikepacking trips. The big Enduro sled for foreign hols and uplift at home. I've always travelled lots for riding as I enjoy new trails and for me the travel is part of the fun. Wish I'd bought the eBike last year.  Yet to see any downside to it.

Had an ebike for 5 years now. Started off with a full fat bike that weighed about 24kg, kind of got fed up with the weight of it, didn't like how it was harder to hop about and change direction, so got a fuel exe about 3 years ago, still riding that pretty much exclusively. Can't see me going back to a none e bike for mountain biking.

I Use the exe for pretty much all my mountain biking, including  foreign trips where I take just the tiny range extender battery.

I still have the 24kg full fat bike, but never use it. 

Posted by: smatkins1

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I'm being less social. I'm addicted to the Turbo, I'm not interested in slowing down to ride with other people at the moment. 

This is interesting for me, I'm the opposite.

Yes, I'll use it sometimes - generally to smash out a boring slog of a section, get home, or for steep climbs. The rest of the time I'm happy to ride around at a pace that a fast'ish normal rider can maintain. I don't even mind slowing down for less fit riders.

When the lads I'm with want to turbo everywhere I don't enjoy the ride as much

Posted by: TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR

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want to turbo everywhere

Is that what people do?? I really dislike the feeling of the Turbo setting on my Bosch CX, can't imagine doing a whole ride on it.

I was taking my Moterra SL (yes, I have 2 ebikes at the mo!) for it's first ride and 2 fellas on Santa Cruz's came blasting past me, I didn't think I was going particularly slow! so maybe they were Turbo hounds.

Posted by: desperatebicycle

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Posted by: TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR

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want to turbo everywhere

Is that what people do?? I really dislike the feeling of the Turbo setting on my Bosch CX, can't imagine doing a whole ride on it.

I was taking my Moterra SL (yes, I have 2 ebikes at the mo!) for it's first ride and 2 fellas on Santa Cruz's came blasting past me, I didn't think I was going particularly slow! so maybe they were Turbo hounds.

I was surprised a couple of times on the Rise too, i'm going along not far off or around motor cut-off and BOOOM someone just flies past me !!! It was like i was on a manual LOL.

"My fitness has dropped. Riding the muscle bike now feels like the brakes are on and I cannot do the big rides unassisted I used to really enjoy. "

We'll be able to keep up then! 😉

Get yourself a singlespeed, I swear the singlespeed hardtail plus e-full-sus is the magic pair for a two MTB garage.

I was surprised a couple of times on the Rise too, i'm going along not far off or around motor cut-off and BOOOM someone just flies past me !!! It was like i was on a manual LOL.

They'll be chipped innit.

On my 2nd E-MTB now. A Haibike Nduro 7. Also have a converted On One Codeine with a 750w Tongsheng motor.

Not totally sold. I still prefer one of my (5) proper bikes.

Good: Climbing, towing the kids up at trail centres, exploring new trails, riding in limited windows.

Bad: Heavy, expensive, 25kmh limit, no throttle, water ingress, stupid 12spd drivetrain.

Okay I can negate some of the bad points with a speed chip & a gym membership but should a "mountain" bike not be able to be ridden into the mountains without fear of getting wet in a stream?

If I go with mates on E-Bikes then I'll take it. If I have a short window to ride, I'll take it.

Otherwise - I can do without it.

Just over a year on an ebike for me and about 16 months since I started the 'journey' with an SL that rapidly morphed into a full fat.

I'd already suffered the 'unrewarding rides' thing a few years back as even un-powered mtbs were getting so good they were stealing some of the reward/satisfaction from the ride experience. A hardtail saw to that, saving the FS for bigger, more lairy rides.

Then covid hit me a couple of years ago and I found I was unable to do enough cardio to maintain fitness without accumulating 'bone-tired' fatigue that took me ages to recover from my work suffered as I struggled with brain fog and the inability to get off the sofa without wanting to go straight to bed.

It's difficult to say if my decline in fitness is attributable to the ebike or my general longer term covid issues, but I'm certainly not as fit as I was.

But. The ebike has given me options to keep riding, both socially, where I tootle along in eco with my un-powered chums, and in boost ****er mode on solo rides too. 

Crucially it's helped prevent me going too deep into the fatigue, because if I'm over tired I can rely on the motor more, because the option is there.

I've found having an ebike has widened my options on my local network. I can string things together in ways that just wasn't possible on a regular mtb, turn descents into climbs and make the previously impossible/energetically too expensive climbs a reality.

 Have a snoop at the eMTB forum, that seems to be what all the members on there do, or want to do. It’s incessantly “more power”… “Amflow” “how to derestrict”… 

Edit, that response was supposed to link to @desperatebicyle…

yeah got it 🙂  Was thinking about the Amflow and how the new Bosch are tuneable to higher power.. not for me though. Can imagine if you haven't been a mountain biker, just come into eMTBing.. I guess it must feel like it's all about the power. Maybe that's the difference - it's hard to put yourself in the mindset of someone who's first experience of riding offroad is with a motor. 

When the lads I'm with want to turbo everywhere I don't enjoy the ride as much

Same feeling on group (motor) bike rides.

Solo (or with similar riders) I'll happily overtake when the "is this sensible" and "is there any point" boxes are ticked, caravan or a bus on an otherwise empty nice sweeping A-road, drop a gear and disappear (after appropriate mirror checks, indicators, lane positioning and a life saver). 

As soon as there ten+ riders you'll be sat there on the A303 looking at miles of traffic doing ~40mph in a 50 limit and someone will fly off down the chevrons.  It only saves a few minutes, it's stressful as hell, there's no corners, fun sections of road, or time to admire the view, and some dick will pull out into the middle of the group to block anyway, why are we doing this other than Tim up front is the only one with the sat-nav?

Just chill out and ride at 80% sometimes!

This is why I kept the regular bike - I'll quite often go out early on the reg bike for a ride when meeting mates on the ebike. I love my ebike, but it has to be used for the correct application, it's dull as dishwater doing a flat xc bridalway bumble. But a big Welsh day out, or trail centre day its great for.

I cirtainly wouldn't want a full fat ebike as an only bike.

Posted by: desperatebicycle

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Posted by: TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR

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want to turbo everywhere

Is that what people do?? I really dislike the feeling of the Turbo setting on my Bosch CX, can't imagine doing a whole ride on it.

I was taking my Moterra SL (yes, I have 2 ebikes at the mo!) for it's first ride and 2 fellas on Santa Cruz's came blasting past me, I didn't think I was going particularly slow! so maybe they were Turbo hounds.

When I’m out on my own, absolutely. I’d say 95% of the time I’m exclusively in Turbo. I’m usually on a reasonably tight window with work, or life, or whatever, so I’ll flog myself in Turbo.

If I’m out with others, it’s usually Tour+ or EMTB+, unless we’re committed to a fast ride.

Posted by: rockhopper70

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Have a snoop at the eMTB forum, that seems to be what all the members on there do, or want to do. It’s incessantly “more power”… “Amflow” “how to derestrict”… 

I've been fairly vocal on here about deristricting mine - both are deristricted. I still have no desire to blat around everywhere in turbo though - nor ride past pedestrians/fly past other bikers at 30mph

Had a full power bike for three years and went through the same situation the OP describes and sold the bike two years ago. Bought an equivalent style enduro bike and god it was hard work. Downhill, brilliant. Everywhere else hard work. Bought an Epic Evo last summer and absolutely love it. Makes local rides fun and very rarely can I find it's limits. All my riding mates have now swapped to ebikes though, so I got seduced back to dark side with a heavily reduced Levo SL. Really enjoying it though. Unlike the full power bikes, there is only just enough power and torque, so rather than the motor over whelming the riding experience, I find it a nice middle ground. Did a big day (for me) in the Cairngorms last month and even in turbo I was barely still able to ride the steeper climbs. On a full power bike it would have been easy and with my Epic, it would have been a long day walking. It allowed me to do a ride I wouldn't have contemplated normally, but still felt challenging. 

I love both!

Full fat ebike on turbo for local DH self-uplift sessions (it's really steep and not particularly enjoyable on a normal bike)

Hardtail for weekly night ride or XC.

yes, also not feeling the eeb as much. I mean, it's fun, but it's not cycling. Even though I am both shit and fat, for actual 'turning the pedals', I miss the direct relationship of forward motion to leg pushing and crank turning. I hate the isolation of the eeb. Also, yes, more hills, more descents, but is it better? not really. It is also very heavy, which is noticeable.

Ridden it pretty much exclusively for 2.5yrs, got it due to AF, AF now (fingers crossed) much better so meds lower making normal biking much more possible again. Bought a 2nd hand Geometron for a song a couple of months ago and have only ridden eeb twice in that time, 30or so other rides all on the G1. Which is bloody brilliant BTW, and also an appropriate size for this 195cm 115kg fella.

Posted by: clubby

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Had a full power bike for three years and went through the same situation the OP describes and sold the bike two years ago. Bought an equivalent style enduro bike and god it was hard work. Downhill, brilliant. Everywhere else hard work. Bought an Epic Evo last summer and absolutely love it. Makes local rides fun and very rarely can I find it's limits. All my riding mates have now swapped to ebikes though, so I got seduced back to dark side with a heavily reduced Levo SL. Really enjoying it though. Unlike the full power bikes, there is only just enough power and torque, so rather than the motor over whelming the riding experience, I find it a nice middle ground. Did a big day (for me) in the Cairngorms last month and even in turbo I was barely still able to ride the steeper climbs. On a full power bike it would have been easy and with my Epic, it would have been a long day walking. It allowed me to do a ride I wouldn't have contemplated normally, but still felt challenging. 

Love this. You're not the first to mention the Epic Evo either. I think that's probably the sweet spot for a non-powered MTB, although I really loved my Stumpy Evo, pretty regretful about selling that to fund the Kenevo SL tbh but here we are. I've only the space for 2 bikes and that's a push so one needed to go.

Some great comments here though, super interesting reading where everyone is at.

so rather than the motor over whelming the riding experience, I find it a nice middle ground.

I find these comment's curious. Its perfectly possible to turn a full fat down so it doesn't overwhelm the riding experience.

Are we saying we're all so weak willed we can't regulates ourselves and can't resist pressing turbo as soon as you have to try a bit?

Posted by: Scienceofficer

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Are we saying we're all so weak willed we can't regulates ourselves and can't resist pressing turbo as soon as you have to try a bit?

I know my singlespeed is a very different riding experience to my geared bike, even though I could just 'not shift' on the geared bike... 😉 

Posted by: gavinnn

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I really loved my Stumpy Evo, pretty regretful about selling that to fund the Kenevo SL tbh

Interesting...
That's the situation I find myself in.
I love my Stumpy Evo, but when I got it out to go to Dyfi a few weeks ago, I realised I hadn't ridden it since a trip to the Alps the previous summer. The reason being that for most of the UK riding I do I prefer my hardtail for it's efficiency and versatility.
Outside of the Alps and bike parks I find the Stumpy Evo is too much bike for the riding I can easily reach under my own power. The riding that it would be good for, is just a little too far to make it worth pedalling to get to. I try not to use the car to go riding as, to me, it defeats the point of having a bicycle...

I'm wondering whether an ebike will bring my local more technical spots more within range for self powered trips?

If I get one, I can also see myself swapping my hardtail for a Stooge for bikepacking and general arsery.

I ride a regular bike, a Ragley Big Al at least once a week with my club as well as my Cotic Jeht occasionally at weekends.

But last year i got a full fat Orbea Wild. For me its like having a proper capable enduro rig without the utter misery of having to pedal a proper capable enduro rig. Its even become my "go to" for uplift days. I would never want a regular enduro bike, with draggy tyres etc as they are hideous, heavy and dead feeling everywhere but pointed down. 

But it means the Jeht is slowly getting pushed out of the picture. If i want that nimble, lively and direct feeling, then i grab the Ragley but if i want to go a hit some bigger, chunky stuff then out comes the Wild. 

If i had to limit it to two in the future, then my ideal would be to have a full fat enduro eeb like the Wild and a lightweight xc full suss with modern geo. 

But it means the Jeht is slowly getting pushed out of the picture. If i want that nimble, lively and direct feeling, then i grab the Ragley but if i want to go a hit some bigger, chunky stuff then out comes the Wild. 

I have literally just stripped and sold my Ibis Ripmo because of this.

I'm now down to the Vendetta and Heckler and I'm okay with that.

without the utter misery of having to pedal a proper capable enduro rig

You're probably overstating for comedic effect, but it's not that bad is it?

I regularly do big rides on my enduro sled and it's not that much different to riding my trail bike.

But maybe it just feels way worse for people who've got used to a motor doing the work?

Turbo at the start of a downhill run to get speed up rest of the time my gang is mainly eco or trail to enjoy being out and talking nonsense. If you're turboing and chipping it get a Motorcross bike you wussies.

So far, on my max 2.5 hour ebike rides, it's not been a problem to select turbo mode which I've kept at the custom option of 100% (250W) when the road points up 3%ish+ for more than a few seconds. It probably helps I try to use eco mode as much as possible on essentially flat, custom max of 100W, but often I've dropped it to 75-80W.

But with only a 250Wh battery, I'm still trying to get my head around how conservative I would need to be with assist on hills, to be able to do a ~50 mile loop (with ~3000 feet climbing) to get up Stoner/Wheatham Hill for the first time since Liz's funeral day... One to hopefully try in July once I've got over this current respiratory infection and eased myself back into some ~2+ hour rides!

13ish more miles and 650ish foot more climbing than my longest ride so far that used 81% battery.

It goes without saying that I'll need to make good use of freewheeling downhill when under the ~15.5mph assist speed to conserve battery, plus I'll have to take some climbs at mid assistance (max of 175W). It would probably make sense to fit my front VEL 50RL wheel to the ebike too.

It will certainly be a long day for me these days, close to 4 hours, not far off an hour slower than my ride on Liz's funeral day on my normal bike (my last good health hill time chasing ride before covid got me good).

I’m usually on a reasonably tight window with work, or life, or whatever, so I’ll flog myself in Turbo.

Now I'm confused. Isn't the whole point of turbo that the eeb flogs itself rather than the rider?

I’ve had mine for about 2.5years, when I first got it I thought I’d never ride a normal bike again.

Until I dusted off my other bike for a trip to Wales and realised that I really prefer riding a lighter bike downhill. It did really increase my fitness for the first year though as I rode a lot more and it made me a better rider because I wasn’t always knackered at the top.

At the moment though I’m enjoying riding a manual bike most of the time, climbing still sucks.

The eeb comes out occasionally now, if I’m tight for time or a bit tired and wouldn’t otherwise ride. Although typing that I don’t think it’s been out since New Year’s Day…

So my vibe is it depends and both are fun depending on my mood & circumstances 🙂

Posted by: Scienceofficer

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so rather than the motor over whelming the riding experience, I find it a nice middle ground.

I find these comment's curious. Its perfectly possible to turn a full fat down so it doesn't overwhelm the riding experience.

Are we saying we're all so weak willed we can't regulates ourselves and can't resist pressing turbo as soon as you have to try a bit?

So why bother carrying the extra weight of a full power motor and associated big battery about? 
My mate has one of the posh Amflows and even it is noticeably heavier than my Levo SL. His eco setting is more powerful than my Turbo! 

When I had my full power I went through the phase of high power everywhere and went back to running low power most of the time. On my recent mentioned trip, I also visited Laggan and Glenlivet. The use profile of the many E bikes I saw, was most riders blasting up fireroads definitely not in reduced power modes. To lots of e-bikes that is the point of having one. 

So why bother carrying the extra weight of a full power motor and associated big battery about? 

Because the power is there if you want it, which is kinda the point. It has flexibility of use.

Posted by: thegeneralist

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I’m usually on a reasonably tight window with work, or life, or whatever, so I’ll flog myself in Turbo.

Now I'm confused. Isn't the whole point of turbo that the eeb flogs itself rather than the rider?

I really don't get this either. On the few I've hired or demo'd I've already hit either the speed limit or the assistance limit in trail/tour when actually working myself so shifting to turbo made no noticeable difference.  

Posted by: clubby

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When I had my full power I went through the phase of high power everywhere and went back to running low power most of the time. On my recent mentioned trip, I also visited Laggan and Glenlivet. The use profile of the many E bikes I saw, was most riders blasting up fireroads definitely not in reduced power modes. To lots of e-bikes that is the point of having one. 

 

After a morning riding at Glenlivet on normal bikes me and a mate hired ebikes for the afternoon as they were cheap and we'd had a decent lunch. Riding them flat out we'd emptied the batteries in 1:40 and roughly 30km and 1000m which was fun. Each downhill wasn't as fun as on my much lighter normal bike and if I'd had to conserve the battery so I could ride all day I'm not sure it'd be worth it.

Doing a Santa Cruz demo day at Stainburn definitely convinced me that even a 22kg ebike is less fun than a burly 16kg trail bike there on anything other than the climbs. I'm sure I could get used to it but the weight made them feel to just plough rather than carefully pick a line.  

As per HobNob's response... I have never derived enjoyment from the climbs, they are a means to an end, a "vessel to the good bits" as he put it... That's not to say that I don't derive a sense of achievement out of climbing, but it's not the fun bit and I'm pretty firmly in the "rather go further and do more descents for the same effort" these days, especially after a couple of years enforced off a bike due to health issues.

Of course there are eBikes and there are eBikes. I'm on my 4th now and have ridden a fair few over the years. Modern eBikes are such a world apart even from eBikes of only 5yrs ago, even if they're not that much lighter, the dynamic of most of them is much closer to a normal MTB I find. My new 2025 Mondraker Crafty just feels like a normal 150mm travel trail/enduro bike most of the time when descending! OK so it needs bigger/better brakes to help reign it in a little, but because it's so well balanced and the bulk of the weight is central and low down on the bike, it handles so well. In fact, with a little extra weight and good geometry, it arguably has better front end grip than a similar normal MTB would have and thus requires a less active riding style to get the grip required, meaning for those of us mere mortal riders, modern ebikes can actually be faster and more fun on the descents at times than a lighter weight bike!

There are times where an eBike simply doesn't feel like the right bike still, and due to the 25km/h rules it's on the flatter and more pedally trails where I find this is the case... I hadn't ridden my XC/DC bike for ages, but took it out the other week on some of my usual trails, and forgot just how great it is on the more pedally descents where you're easily exceeding 25km/h at times, and how easily it wanted to pop in the air off every single root and rock! It was a hell of a lot of fun and reminded me more of why I got into MTBing, but by the same token, I rode less trails before I was knackered and it was only objectively "better" on those flatter trails.

I keep looking at all the bargains out there in the 140+mm "trail" and "enduro" bike categories out there right now, thinking if ever there was a time to buy it is right now... But I just can't see me using one again! I have no desire to be on a bike with all of the downsides of my eBike (longer travel, heavy wheels and tyres) but without a motor and battery to take the sting out of the climbs! But I do still see a place for a lightweight XC/DC bike, be it a hardtail or a short travel full sus, for flatter rides and/or general distance work.

As for riding modes on an eBike? Well each to their own... Turbo doesn't interest me... I can't get excited about a bicycle capable of putting out less than 1bhp of power when I've got motorbikes with more than 150bhp in my garage... It's totally not the point of them. The motor is there for a bit of assistance to help you do more and make more of the trails you have access to. I'm on a Bosch CX motored bike, but mostly use Tour+, occasionally eMTB, sometimes a bit of Eco if I'm riding with people on regular MTB's, and have only used turbo just to check it works but it felt absolutely pointless to me... But if I'm on a bike it's generally for a minimum of 3hrs, often a lot longer anyway, so I'm not stealing that quick lunch hour ride and trying to make the most of it myself so each to their own...

Managed 2 rides last weekend, 40km and 1100m of climbing on Saturday, 50km and 1700m of climbing on Sunday... Most of the time in eMTB both days, a bit of eco too. Saturday I had 44% battery (800Wh) left and Sunday 35% left... I was riding in groups both days, chatting socially at times, climbing at a group pace and adjusting my modes and my gears as such... The fact I managed two big rides in two days at all is testament to me just how great modern eBikes are (for anyone who hasn't followed my history with cancer the last few years, take my word for it), but being minded to put effort in I was still absolutely knackered at the end of both rides anyway... An eBike just means I can ride with whoever now, and whenever, and just adjust my modes to suit...

Posted by: thisisnotaspoon

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It's probably 20 years since we hit peak-inbred and you couldn't turn up to a ride without at least one no-frills* logo'd simple XC bike being there.  That's got to mean it's due a comeback. 

TINAS makes a good point here of sorts... The biggest problem with eBikes is just how expensive it has made the sport... 20yrs ago, the venerable STW group ride meet ups would be full of mostly people on bikes they'd built themselves for £1-1.5K I'd say. For sure you had the occasional expensive ego chariot, and you had the odd person riding singlespeed not because they wanted to but more because they couldn't afford to replace their drivetrain (back when cassettes were £30, chains were a tenner, and both lasted ages!)... I know if I only ever rode on my own, I'd have fun regardless of if I was on a sub £1k hardtail or on an all singing all dancing £10k eBike... The problem is you can't take a knife to a gunfight and expect to enjoy it any more sadly, because more money tends to buy more performance now, more than it ever used to when you still had to put all the effort in yourself!

@mboy I'm guessing you mean rides like these ? 😉

Recent Levo buyer so early days for me but I'm still riding my proper bikes more. I am loving the choice that its added to my life though 🙂

I am 54 and each year I am taking my fitness and weight more seriously so giving up proper bikes isn't on the cards. 

What I love it for is sessioning steep local trails and have found it really good from a skills point of view, you can't beat repetition of a trail or feature for improvement. I also like to do a long ride on my Airdrop then grab a bite to eat, walk the dog then Turbo the local steeps for an hour.

I think I'm basically using it as a treat.

I've recently done a 4 day, 197 miler (hardtail) and I'm looking forward to 3 days of hikeabikey (no way I'm carrying an E-bike) Lakeland stuff this month. Variety is the spice of life and all that.

Posted by: chakaping

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You're probably overstating for comedic effect, but it's not that bad is it?

I regularly do big rides on my enduro sled and it's not that much different to riding my trail bike.

But maybe it just feels way worse for people who've got used to a motor doing the work?

Its quite noticeable to me, and i'll sidestep the lame "people used to the motor doing the work" dig, yawn. I've always found the bigger tyres / more sag / increased weight kills the enjoyable, direct, feel of a ride. If i ever had to stick to one bike it would be a steel hardtail even though most of my riding is in the peak. 

picked up my first ebike last night so fully vibed here. 

But maybe it just feels way worse for people who've got used to a motor doing the work?

 

 

 

Its quite noticeable to me, and i'll sidestep the lame "people used to the motor doing the work" dig, yawn.

That honestly wasn't a dig.

I've read many times on this very forum people saying "going back to my normal bike felt like riding with the brakes on". Someone has probably even said it on this thread.

I was just thinking maybe those who get used to riding with a motor perceive riding an enduro bike as harder than non-eebers.

OK fair enough, i read it the wrong way. All good.

My views on enduro bikes are compared with shorter travel trail bikes which i have always preferred. Its why, pre ebike, i got the Jeht rather than the Rocket, which now with hindsight was the wrong call considering how much time our club spends at uplift centres 🙁

Anyone wanna buy a Jeht ?  😉

My Vitus E-Sommet got parked in the garage almost a year ago when the drivetrain needed changed, was ready for a fitness campaign at the time and its the best thing I've done. Significantly fitter and lighter (not just to no e-bike to be fair) and absolutely no desire to ride one again. The normal bikes are just so much more rewarding to get up a tricky climb and much more fun coming back down (all IMO).

As someone said to me when I got up a steep climb on the eeb feeling a little falsely proud, "well done, your thumb got a good workout there pressing that power button", that summed it up well the difference between a non assisted bike and one where the motor can drag you up the hill.

Posted by: chakaping

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going back to my normal bike felt like riding with the brakes on

My solution to this is to only ride my eeber on around 10% of my rides.

That way you get the polar opposite when you do ride it.

Eco feel like turbo and trail is awsumz for pulling sick wheelies up pushup tracks. 😉

“"going back to my normal bike felt like riding with the brakes on"”

The last time I rode with smatkins1 who said this, he was on his Geometron and the rest of us (visiting from the the east) were on e-bikes. I tried turning my Levo off in solidarity but gave in after a short while and left him to suffer alone keeping up with motor-assisted riders (but to be honest he didn’t appear to be suffering at all!)

I switched to a Cube Stereo Hybrid which I loved for 2 years. Eventually I was looking for something lighter and more like what I used to ride. I changed to a Orbea Rise, another great bike but I found myself riding less and less, enjoying it less. I then sold that and now have a Whyte 901, it feels great to be back.

I got overtaken on FoD long red extension last night by 2 eebs... i wasn't bothered 😀  Once upon a time it would have bothered me, but right now i'm happy that i was struggling on the manual

Im almost exactly a year into my e-bike journey. And in that year, even though ive been MTB-crazy for years, I’ve never ridden as much. For me, it’s been like discovering biking anew. It’s like a total addiction. On any dry day, im riding twice a day! And each time, im going twice as far as I would go on my normal full susser . Consequently, my fitness hasn’t dropped - I’ve been riding each day like it’s my last day ever on a bike!

however, I understand what folks are saying. When you have no choice but to suffer a brutal climb in order to earn one sweet descent, I think you appreciate that descent more. When you can do that climb 3 times, there is no question (in my mind) that sometimes the descents can kind of pass you by. My plan is to focus on each and every descent, as if it was the only one. Enjoy every meter of that ride.

my bike is a light e-bike. Even then, I hardly ever ride in turbo mode. There are two things that jump out at me that I’ve especially enjoyed/benefited from on an e-bike:

1. When I don’t really have the time for a normal ride, you can go o boost, knock out the climb, and squeeze a one-lap ride into a much shorter time than on a normal bike. (I don’t do this very often - most times, I ride at approx. The same pace as my normal bike).

2. I have always loved technical climbs. But the e-bike has taken that love and multiplied it by 100. I kind myself riding a descent sometimes - just to have another crack at the techy climb back up. 

sorry - 3 things:

3. My winter riding has been revolutionised. My local trails get very boggy in winter. A trail that you can zip along in summer becomes a trudging slog in winter. But the e-bike has revolutionised this. Less zoomy trails are less of a trudge.

I got overtaken on FoD long red extension last night by 2 eebs... i wasn't bothered 😀

last time I was at the FoD i got overtaken by the same ebiker three times on a single climb up through the DH tracks. I've since bought an ebike...