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Top trolling from Ryder. He has got loads of bites
Come on rydflat tell us all how you give to this MTB community you're so worried about ebikes destroying.
Or even tell us what MTB you ride as you seem to be avoiding the question...
“Well I seem to have stirred the hornets nest 😀”
You certainly have, if you’re meaning that everyone watching is thinking: “Well, I’m amazed that someone could be so clueless as to do that, he’s going to get stung to **** and end up looking like a complete idiot.”
Top trolling from Ryder. He has got loads of bites
You will get loads of bites spending all that time on canal tow paths.
Certainly barged in on this
@ klunk,
re chipped ebike on road.
yes, if it’s chipped to bypass the speed limiter it is technically an unregistered, uninsured, untaxed motorbike.
so, yes, it could put points on a riders licence.
If you’re considering it, id say don’t bother tbh, legalities aside, it doesn’t improve the bike. The ability to sit at 25mph gets boring pretty quickly and it eats the battery like nobody’s business.
Mine is switchable, so I’m legal on road, but im not gonna bother doing it to the next one.
So if an unrestricted ebike is effectively an electric motorcycle and illegal on the road unless taxed, insured and ridden with a helmet, It must be illegal off-road on a trail centre or bridleway?
Is this an issue or something that is being discussed?
must be illegal off-road on a trail centre or bridleway?
Yes. In the UK at least, unrestricted ebikes are illegal everywhere except private land basically.
I blevo that you can alter when the assist stops at the touch of a button on some bikes.
So if an unrestricted ebike is effectively an electric motorcycle and illegal on the road unless taxed, insured and ridden with a helmet, It must be illegal off-road on a trail centre or bridleway?
Is this an issue or something that is being discussed?
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">I think it would be illegal on road and off-road places where motorbikes could go even if taxed insured etc. as to be legal it would have to comply with the rules about the construction, lighting etc. of motorcycles which it almost certainly wouldn't. </span>
In what sense do you think it is an issue?
I think it would be illegal on road and off-road places where motorbikes could go even if taxed insured etc. as to be legal it would have to comply with the rules about the construction, lighting etc. of motorcycles which it almost certainly wouldn’t.
Not seeing this myself having registered quite a few MX bikes for road use.
Lights are not a legal requirement if the bike doesn't come with them fitted.
It must be illegal off-road on a trail centre or bridleway?
Not allowed by whoever is in custody of the trail or bridleway but not likely illegal (criminalized).
Lights are not a legal requirement if the bike doesn’t come with them fitted.
Yeah but you can only get a daytime MOT.
Mine is switchable, so I’m legal on road, but im not gonna bother doing it to the next one.
It's not legal IIRC to have a switch on it and use it as a bicycle, unless they changed the law recently. If it has a switch it is treated like a motorbike by the law.
In what sense do you think it is an issue?
I was asking if it is not saying it is.
I guess it could be an issue in some circumstances and it depends what organisations such as NRW and the FC decide as ebikes become more common and the technology matures.
I take it owners are charging them in a massive tin, like what they are meant to for the batteries of their lights.
Asgard shares must be going through the roof.
like what they are meant to for the batteries of their lights.
Only if you insist on buying dodgy eaby cheap shite lights.
A derestricted e bike would be illegalto use anywhere but on private land with the landowners permission as once it no longer meets the criteria for an e bike it becomes a motorcycle that does not meet regulations.
Yeah but you can only get a daytime MOT.
No such thing. No lights means no indicators either usually. They aren't passed on a "no corners" MOT.
Daytime MOT isn't an official term not but it is a de facto one.
it provides
the legal backing to the simplified
wording used throughout Section 1
of the Inspection Manuals, where
we also state that such vehicles
must not be used at times of
seriously reduced visibility, as this
would clearly be dangerous as well
as illegal.
So in essence the MOT only covers you for riding in good visibility conditions.
I take it owners are charging them in a massive tin, like what they are meant to for the batteries of their lights.
Not as big as the tins electric car owners use though.
You get an MOT. The thing is roadworthy on that date. The fact that it hasn't got lights means that it's dangerous and illegal to ride it at night, or in heavy fog. Nothing to do with the MOT.
In the same way that an MOT for a Reliant Robin is just an MOT. It's not a "roads only" MOT. Everything fitted is tested, and if it passes, it passes. MOT pass has no bearing on the suitability for use in different circumstances. It's still unsuitable and dangerous for taking up and down byways.
And to demonstrate the lack of connection between the MOT and the use: The reliant robin's lights could conk out on the way home from the test centre and it would be illegal to drive in the dark/fog, and the guy on the trials bike could stop in and get road legal lights fitted on the way home from the test centre and be 100% legal to ride at night. MOT is irrelevant to both of these.
Talking about daytime MOT is lazy and reinforces an confused view of what the test is for and what it does.
A bit like your views on ebikes.
Talking about daytime MOT is lazy and reinforces an confused view of what the test is for and what it does.
I think you are splitting hairs a bit. You end up with an MOT with a VT32 advisory saying that no lights were fitted. This can colloquially be known as a daytime MOT. Either way teh bike presented and tested can only be used under conditions of good visibility.
I take it owners are charging them in a massive tin, like what they are meant to for the batteries of their lights
No. Obviously not because I trust a £180 smart charger charger made by Bosch a LOT more than I would trust a set of Chinese crap lights bought off eBay for £10 including delivery.
Call me optomistic if you like 👍
a set of Chinese crap lights bought off eBay for £10 including delivery.
Ooh! Link?
😉
No. Obviously not because I trust a £180 smart charger charger made by Bosch a LOT more than I would trust a set of Chinese crap lights bought off eBay for £10 including delivery.
Call me optomistic if you like 👍
The amount of lithium-ion in lights is much less than in an e-bike battery so the risk is much less but I take your point.
Anyway I used to handle lithium batteries of the order of 20 Ah to 100 Ah with my job years ago. We had to do a lot of training, take special precautions and we had a kit to deal with thermal runway/fire. Granted these operated in much tougher conditions than on an e-bike but I certainly wouldn't be conformable charging or storing the battery itself in my house. There is a reason these objects are restricted on planes these days.
Jesus titty****ing Christ...bites within bites. Amazing what can happen when there's no sarcasm smiley applied.
You really are grasping at straws now rydster. Stop trolling, and get back to the commuting threads, ebike threads attract enough ignorant nonsense without you constantly trolling.
e-bike but I certainly wouldn’t be conformable charging or storing the battery itself in my house.
Don’t buy an ebike then.
or a laptop, or a tablet, or a mobile phone etc
I’m perfectly happy with my decisions though, so you don’t need to worry 👍
Stop trolling
A bit generous I would say. I presume he actually believes this crap. 😳
Jesus titty****ing Christ…bites within bites. Amazing what can happen when there’s no sarcasm smiley applied.
With the level of stupid being displayed on this thread, if you are going to type something stupid and not actually mean it, you do need to make it clearer 👍
In the interest of a balanced thread.
I am fat, and I am lazy and I have bought an Ebike.
I am hoping the above will help me with not...
a) being fat
b) being lazy
I did a 10 mile ride earlier, which is the furthest I have ridden in quite a few years.
Up some bloody steep hills. It's a revelation
They do look a laugh if your in the mood, & I'd probably have one if I could afford one, but I cant see one replacing my regular bike. It's just a different type of bike. Amazed at the depth of feelings on here though, its all biking after all.
Amazed at the depth of feelings on here though, its all biking after all.
Absolutely. I have a 650 Suzuki for when I want to go motorbiking though.
"Yeah I was just trolling. I don’t really care about them TBH but it’s interesting to see the passions they generate."
It isn't passion, it's frustration at real or fake ****wittery. I'm glad I have a sufficiently interesting life that I'd never resort to trolling to avert my boredom...
Invalid carriages have a similar legal standing, however they only require registration. A electric motorcycle would require vosa approval, registration, insurance, mot and a licensed rider.
However, the police turn a blind eye to the invalid carriages as there is a unofficial truce in place over the status of these, and I imagine chipped eebs will get similar treatment.
it will likely be a law change regarding hoverboards, electricscooters, skateboards and other e toys that will determine what happens with eebs, unless something particularly high profile happens.
Yeah I was just trolling.
I know, I’ve seen the bridge you hide under, down by the canal 😉
How many ebike haters drive cars, hmmm?
Hypocrite much????
How many ebike haters drive cars, hmmm?
Hypocrite much????
Only if they are eecars.
Yeah I was just trolling.
Doesn't really matter, You still sound thick either way.
Had a little play on the mobility scooter today, now the Winter slop is on the way it’s even more fun.
Took it off the road gap at Delamere today, it didn’t feel a whole lot different to my Capra, maybe a little more planted and stable on landing as you might expect.
Had a little play on the mobility scooter
😂 thank you, I shall call e bikes that from now on
That's all well and good colp.
But can you ride up and down the canal on it?
Crikey mate, steady on, I’m still learning!
Keep at it and one day you'll be able to master riding a gravelbike under a bridge.
Had a shot of my mates Focus E-Sam2 today, riding it up our handbuilt tracks, that's a whole new world of fun!. 😊
Would love one of them but £7k!!
I've been commuting all week on my normal mtb. Will be going out on my ebike after lunch for some fun. (remember ebike riders may also ride other bikes)
I will probably overtake a few people on hills, but its not my fault they are slow. I would still beat them on my mtb.
Been a while since I got involved in a good ole internet debate, and I'm a relatively new user here so this'll be fun 😉
As far as I'm concerned the following claims are all completely invalid:
- eBikers are fat/lazy etc
No, they can work just as hard but do twice the mileage. Seems like common sense to me. Someone on a 'normal' bike, running a 2x system on the granny gear could be labelled more lazy than someone on an eBike. Context is everything.
- eBikers are dickheads
No, dickheads are dickheads. When I was just getting started and still mincing some technical features some guy on a 'normal' bike had a rant at me because I chickened a drop and he was right on my tail. Dickhead. Most MTBers are good people, in my experience the bike they're on doesn't make a difference.
You want to correlate an equipment choice with whether a person is a dickhead? Every person I see on the trail without a helmet on has always been a dickhead.
I think eBikes are fun. I've had a go on a couple on a demo day and it was a blast; people who are fit and healthy have a good time, and people who otherwise couldn't get on a bike due to health issues now can. From a choice point of view, that should be it.
I don't want one because I don't want the associated weight and additional potential for mechanical issues.
However there is also another issue I don't want one, which has only been touched upon here: Trail wear and tear. I think this is a legitimate concern, especially at trail centres and high traffic areas, in a time in which MTB as a sport is already growing and the number of cyclists in total is growing.
Its not about the added weight either, i doubt very much the added few pounds makes an issue in isolation.
The problem is the frequency at which eMTBs can do loops. That, in combination with the higher weight of the bikes, and the inevitable popularity of tyres like Schwalbe Eddys means that trail centres are getting ripped to pieces.
I ride at Llandegla a lot; its a great place to learn MTB as its pretty tame as trail centres go. I've seen eMTBers do 2 or 3 loops in my one loop. I've seen eMTBers session the same part of the Black run multiple times. There are parts of the trail which are in disrepair, and it happens so quickly; and it correlates with the number of eBikes i've seen on the trails.
Recently, I've read articles concerned with wear and tear at places like Finale Ligure due to increased traffic from normal mountain bikes after the popularity of EWS. Once you add eBikes into this, it dramatically effects the environment due to the increased speed at which the trail wears down .
An additional concern could be access rights. In England and Wales, its hard enough to convince councils that walking trails should be mixed use as they are in Scotland - but if more and more eBikes go on natural trails, more frequently, and cause damage to those trails, I can't see those trails ever opening up to bikes - and it could put trails in Scotland at risk, too.
Interested to know what you guys think about this; apologies for the essay. Lets keep it civil 😉
Interested to know what you guys think about this; apologies for the essay. Lets keep it civil
TL:DR but you can guarantee that all you have said has already been debated (on a weekly basis)
but you can guarantee that all you have said has already been debated (on a weekly basis)
I did take a read through the thread; can't say it was massively touched upon here but i'm sure it has elsewhere.
Would love one of them but £7k!!
Aye, RRP is a bit high! you can pick them up for less than that now though, he got his for pretty much half price, as he's one of those guys that knows bloody everyone, and the lbs owner ain't daft - him having one will sell e-bikes to others locally.
I hope my forthcoming mobility scooter jumps that well Col, because I don't on a normal bike!
Interested to know what you guys think about this
It's the same stuff on every ebike thread that I've seen. Apart from the it not being the weight thing, but the number of loops, don't agree with that.
But I'd have an ebike if I had the cash to fling around. Like, lots of cash.
Interesting thing I heard was from that French top XC fella, who was riding one (obv, sponsored) at an event - they're great he said, just a different discipline. Exactly, it's not mtbing, it's Ebiking and I don't read MBR cos they mix ebike reviews in their MTB mag. Hope Singletrack don't (in the paper mag) cos I'll stop reading that too.
Apart from the it not being the weight thing, but the number of loops, don’t agree with that.
My argument its that its those two things in combination; not just the number of loops. Most arguments i've seen only focus on the weight rather than the impact of increased usage in the same amount of time.
The problem is the frequency at which eMTBs can do loops.
Apart from the it not being the weight thing, but the number of loops, don’t agree with that.
Obviously more loops cause more erosion. I can't see how anyone could disagree with that (I'm sure someone will try). Whether people think it's a problem is a personal decision.
Oh, I know what I meant anyway.
I hope my forthcoming mobility scooter jumps that well Col, because I don’t on a normal bike!
Cheers fella 🙂
Don’t let the extra weight put you off, like Geex has said, you can do anything on them you would on a non ebike.
Obviously more loops cause more erosion. I can’t see how anyone could disagree with that (I’m sure someone will try).
I'll be that guy (surprise surprise)
Asuming you mean Ebike Vs non assisted. What if the Ebike rider always uses less agressive tyres and is a better rider so brakes a lot less?
Erosion is a load if shit anyway. The world isn't designed not to change/wear. But some folk think they can make up rules and heirachy as to who is allowed to use certain parts of it moar.
You want to correlate an equipment choice with whether a person is a dickhead? Every person I see on the trail without a helmet on has always been a dickhead.
Oh... a judgemental dickhead. Nice to meet you. You'll get on fine here.
I'll only wear a helmet when I deem the risk of hitting my head appropriately high enough thanks. I'm not the one being a dickhead about my choice.
Erosion is a load of shit anyway
Aye, so many folks go on about it, our country is absolutely and completely shaped by erosion of some form, farming, moorland, towns, cities, paths, roads etc. It's like a warcry, won't someone think of the erosion!
The only place in the UK where I've seen trail erosion being a serious environmental problem is the Pennine Way, across the peat bogs. And that's all the walkers' fault!
Most of what we ride on and walk on is ever changing and has been for centuries. The reason people moan about trail erosion is either because they want a certain user group to be banned or because they don't like getting a bit muddy due to what the horses/walkers/MTBers (delete as applicable) have caused during the winter.
And when it comes to trail centres or built yet cheeky trails, the worst trail erosion is caused by riders braking in turns, taking chicken lines and avoiding puddles. The more skilled and committed the rider, the less the problem. The more most people ride, the more skilled they tend to get, so does an e-bike actually cause less erosion?
Come on you're getting desperate now there's not really even any haters on here arguing with you!
I saw a **** riding on the pavement on an ebike the other day... Well not an ebike in the proper sense, he wasn't even turning the pedals ... Just running on battery (some kind of throttle?).
It's things like this that get people's backs up.
But that's just a cant on a bike. That fact it has battery and is illegal is irrelevant, he's just a cant.
Never fails to.amaze that logic, I saw someone eating an apple, whilst curling a shite off on a cafe table, ergo, all Apple eaters are filthy bastards.
caused by riders...
avoiding puddles. The more skilled and committed the rider, the less the problem.
Oi. I'm skilled AF at avoiding puddles.
Come on you’re getting desperate now there’s not really even any haters on here arguing with you!
Nah... The argument was won ages ago. Chief just likes every "detail" covered. The rest of us are just bored waiting for this weeks new knee jerk reaction to an Ebike rider thread.
or not.
I’m just filling time until my e-bike’s done.
Amazing.
Not wearing a helmet is okay
Erosion via unnatural means doesn’t exist.
Next you’ll be saying the earth is flat...
This is why I don’t internet anymore!
“This is why I don’t internet anymore!”
Did you post this via telegram or carrier pigeon?
YOU SHOT MY SPECKLED JIM!!!
I prefer to post via pidgeon, the ePidgeons erode the airways too much
Yes. Not wearing a hat all the time is fine Colourofsound.
Colour of sound? COLOUR OF SOUND?
Are you there???
Amazing indeed!
I’m right here, Geex.
im going to assume you’re a responsible adult; I wasn’t being judgemental in my comment - I was being literal. So apologies if I gave the wrong impression.
Guys ive seen without helmets are smoking on the trails, dropping litter, pissing on the side of the trail, letting their dogs shit on the trail...granted, they are few and far between, but I’ve seen it.
the worst are those on the jump/pump tracks or free ride sections, not wearing helmets while impressionable kids watch them. I just don’t think it’s responsible. Hence: dickheads.
All the ebikers wear helmets though, whilst they irresponsibly ruin the trails 😉
the worst are those on the jump/pump tracks or free ride sections, not wearing helmets while impressionable kids watch them. I just don’t think it’s responsible.
So, let me get this straight - you expect people that you don't know to set an example to "impressionable" kids, whom they also do not know? Why in heavens name should they bear responsibility for other people's children!? Do you also expect people walking in a public place to not smoke in case any impressionable kids are watching?
The choice to ride a legal pedal-assist e-bike where it is permitted to ride an unassisted bike is a personal one, and the business of no-one else.
The choice to wear a helmet, or not, is a personal one, and the business of no-one else.
The choice to smoke on the trails (a public outdoor space where it is not prohibited) is a personal one, and (as long as the butts are extinguished properly and not dropped as litter) the business of no-one else.
Why can't people stop working themselves up into a DM-esque froth over what other people are doing?
😆
I do ride pumptracks and dirt jumps in freeride parks without a helmet when I feel there's very little risk of head injury.
I've also smoked a fair amount by the side of a trail, in woodland/countryside
I've also pissed in the woods all my life.
I have no problem with others who wear helmets to ride on the beach or a grass playing field with no hard surfaces or obsticles even present
I always sort out my litter and encourage others to do the same.
Where I live I'm surrounded by farm/woodland, it's full of animals (me included) who use it as their toilet.
I don't have a dog.
More than once I have been told I should be wearing a helmet by a judgemental child from a nice middle class #mtb_lifestyle family while riding freeride parks while their pathetic parent looks at their feet and doesn't even think to to explain to their offspring just how rude and judgemental they have just been to a stranger. Luckily I'm honest and confident enough to reply calmly that I'm an adult, it's my choice and not to worry about it.
Yes. I'm being intentionally judgemental here, are you getting the hang of this yet?
I'd rather judgemental people were honest. I get the impression you're only this honest from behind your keyboard though.
More than once I have been told I should be wearing a helmet by a judgemental child from a nice middle class #mtb_lifestyle family while riding freeride parks while their pathetic parent looks at their feet and doesn’t even think to to explain to their offspring just how rude and judgemental they have just been to a stranger
HArsh... their kid may just have been trying to be nice... That's not judgemental, that's innocence of youth.
I’ve also pissed in the woods all my life.
I bet it was higher than everyone else though.
@weeksy. If only. None of these kids knew how to say it nicely. I blame the parents 😉
I bet it was higher than everyone else though.
Nah. That was Alasdair Bunyan. Tall scrawny boy with tight curly hair (looked a bit like a posh version of plug from the Beano) but christ he could piss some height. Good goalie too.
Ps. you can talk 😉
Ahh, the arrogance of human existence!
I can do whatever I like, its my choice, and no one else's business, right? And if it effects other people, it's their problem...right?
@idiotdogbrain I don't expect people to take responsibility for other peoples children. That's a ridiculous notion. Maybe its idealistic of me, but I don't think its unreasonable to expect people to take responsibility for their own actions, and maybe consider how it effects others. We were all inspired to ride by seeing someone else, right? Wouldn't it be nice if riders were inspiring not only excellent riding skills and enjoying the outdoors, but also personal safety?
As far as smoking is concerned - you're right, forgive me. That's the smokers prerogative and in a legal, wide open space it isn't a problem - IF they extinguish and pick up their butts. But most don't; and given there were wide spread heather fires this summer around where I ride, this is more of a concern than usual.
Generally I would agree that the choices people make are their own and its the business of no one else. But I think that everyone has a responsibility to at least consider how their actions might effect or influence others. I don't think that's particularly unreasonable; and whilst in isolation the personal choices that people make don't concern others, in reality its not always the case.
@Geex You seem to have made the assumption I'm personally attacking you - I'm not. It just so happens that you have done things that I have seen other people do to excess, without responsibility, at trail centres and places that have heavy public usage. Pissing in a remote woodland area is one thing, but in full view of others within view of the trails is entirely another. As for smoking; see above. Its more about the littering really and the potential for fire in dry summers.
As far as helmets are concerned, for the most part I agree with you. I certainly won't be wearing one on a scorching day whilst doing a fire road climb. But I also wouldn't be so arrogant to assume that if I'm not responsible for my own safety at the times where it counts (like on a descent, or you know, getting air at a dirt jump track) that the choices I make won't effect someone else, however indirectly.
Next time I wash dogshit off my frame, pick it out from my tyres and carefully take off my dogshit splattered kit to wash it, i'll remember that its okay though because animals shit in the field so dogs can shit on a publicly used trail; whats the difference?
I'd happily be this honest at the pub or on the trails. Whether in person or behind a keyboard however, I don't think our ideals align so in the interest of being responsible adults lets agree to disagree...
I don't own a dog and I certainly don't take any of the farm animals to trail centres with me.
I'm probably just as comfortable in the air at a nice safe freeride park with it's manmade jumps as you are on a fireroad climb so where's all this harm I'm doing to others?
You seem a bit of a confused man.
But we're at 400. Could this end up being the next tripster thread?
What if the Ebike rider always uses less agressive tyres and is a better rider so brakes a lot less
I was going to respond to this and point out that it's theoretically possible but just won't happen, but I'd better not as this thread has now got a helmet AND ebike bunfight going on. 🙂